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phasing issue poll
Old 20th December 2010
  #1
Gear Nut
 

phasing issue poll

Hey folks

I'm a guitarist, and had a session for a songwriter in a fairly well known studio in montreal yesterday...

For two songs there were some guitar riffs that we had agreed to double; and tihs is where the engineer told me something that seemed to contradict what other engineers have told me in the past (mind you i'm no expert, just a guitarist who's always happy to learn):

that i had to switch guitars so that there wouldn't be an phasing issue when i was doubling a part... he really insisted that I use another guitar...

what do you guys tihnk?
Old 20th December 2010
  #2
Gear Addict
 

Using a different guitar can beef up the sound and make it more interesting but I've never ever had phasing issues doubling a part with the same guitar.
Old 20th December 2010
  #3
Lives for gear
 

That's awesome....No....that's far from the truth. You may or may not like the sound of that same harmonic structure doubled....but it ain't gonna cancel.

Kirt Shearer
www/paradisestudios.net
Old 20th December 2010
  #4
Gear Nut
 

ya that's what i thought, it wasn't my session and i really wasn't gonna argue with an engineer who really insists on a lot of things...

the sound he got for me was pretty bad too but oh well.... as long as the guy who hired me is happy, i'm cool with it
Old 20th December 2010
  #5
Lives for gear
 
Sigma's Avatar
lol if you played it exactly the same and the guitars pitch was exactly the same an so were all your dynamics THEN you'd get a phasey thing...

happens on vocals occasionally with singers with perfect pitch, timing and dynamics..the more they dbl the smaller the sound

but, like in 30 years i have only heard 2 or 3 singers where that has happened
Old 20th December 2010
  #6
Gear Guru
 
Ethan Winer's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sigma View Post
happens on vocals occasionally with singers with perfect pitch, timing and dynamics..the more they dbl the smaller the sound
Good point, and I've had that problem when doubling my cello. With doubled guitars, they're often panned hard left and right which avoids the problem (unless played on a mono system). Lead vocals are usually in the middle. With cellos and violins you can either use a different instrument as the OP was told, or leave the microphone in place but move the player a few feet, or both.

--Ethan

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The Acoustic Treatment Experts
Old 20th December 2010
  #7
member no 666
 
Fletcher's Avatar
As noted - "different guitars" will usually increase the "size" - especially if you add "different amps" and "different mics" / "signal paths" [the more stuff that is different on a part that is played the same, the larger the sound SHOULD get [if the engineer's skill / technique isn't up to the task then its all a crap shoot].

Obviously the "engineer" on this session read something on one of these message board things he didn't understand and was regurgitating this 30% "accumulated" knowledge as "Gospel truth" as is done way [WAY] too often.

Peace.
Old 20th December 2010
  #8
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbshearer View Post
That's awesome....No....that's far from the truth. You may or may not like the sound of that same harmonic structure doubled....but it ain't gonna cancel.

Kirt Shearer
www/paradisestudios.net
It's not, strictly speaking, a phasing issue in the normal sense of typical studio usage of the word, since we're talking about two distinctly different performances, not a single performance picked up by two mics.

However, comb filtering -- which is the addition and subtraction effect produced when combining two similar wave forms -- can definitely be a factor when combining two similar guitar parts played on the same guitars.

I'm far from a precise or regular finger picker, so on occasions I've thought I could get away with putting simultaneous fingerpicked parts on either side of a stereo mix, only to find them dancing in and out of combination in the center... most distracting. If you were to stack those parts in one location in the stereo field (and maybe be a little more precise heh ) you would almost certainly have some comb filtering effects. It might not be an unpleasant thing, but it might well not be what you're looking for.

Switching out acoustic guitars when filling in multiple parts is a good tactic that will address a few considerations. It's not always what's required, but it's always a good thing to keep in mind.

An alternative, if one only has one guitar available, is to use a capo and rearrange one of the guitar parts to make use of the change of fingerings and chord inversions, which not only tends to avoid comb filtering issues but makes for a harmonically richer, more complex backing. (Not always what one wants of course.)

Another trick is to use a Nashville strung guitar to double the part.
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