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Today I ended my Spotify premium subscription Effects Pedals, Units & Accessories
Old 18th December 2010
  #1
Lives for gear
 

Today I ended my Spotify premium subscription

I have been a premium Spotify member for multiple years and today I decided I'm not going to support this anymore, the "music draining effect" is just too high and as a music lover I feel I have the responsibility to immediately act against this and also protect myself against it. In the long term it's not going to fly.

Here are some of the reasons:

- Users are allowed to listen to music in **** quality, even worse quality than what was offered in the 80's
- Users are allowed to experience ads during music consumption
- Users are allowed to not be able to listen to the music they want and this also has a negative impact on the quality of the music that gets popular
- Users are not guaranteed to have access to music they had access to before

Spotify is music packaged into a "modern" format. "Modern" sucks I discovered. It makes music appear as something other than what it truly is. Music is holy, you can't just shove it into whatever that sells and get away with that.

So there is nothing cool about the above features, in fact it sucks value out of the music experience and makes people's interest in music much lower than it could be, which has a very negative music nourishing/support impact. Just because audio and video is available over the Web it is not automatically cool.

Spotify doesn't rock and for that reason I also encourage you to make the same decision as I did today. Let's support only stuff that rocks...
Old 18th December 2010
  #2
Gear Addict
 

I see your point here. I have always been one to purchase music and so have never really used Spotify all that much. The only real use that I have really is for playing one track if I'm getting ready for work and don't want to have to scour through my hundreds of CD's/vinyls to find it.

However, a paid subsription at least gets some money (however small) to the artists/producers which is more than most formats that people use today.

Unfortunately we need to just face the fact that this is the way that music has gone recently. However, there still are a lot of people who buy CD's (even amongst the younger generation) rather than listen to them online so there is hope yet.

One of my main problems with Spotify is that they don't initially get permission from the owners of the music. There is a couple of albums on Spotify that I worked on that were put there without the owners permission and who wasn't even informed. Needless to say, we haven't received a single payment even though they have been listened to multiple times.
Old 18th December 2010
  #3
Lives for gear
 

Well put. I'm glad other's are prepared to take some kind of stand against Mediocrity, Lameness and Product. Take it back to Church. Make it about Holiness. Not consumption. This is what we Love.

Once again, just a reminder to some people who have become too impatient to enjoy THE RITUAL of listening. Of patiently absorbing and understanding music and allowing it to provoke a reaction within you.

Last FM and Spotify are great for searching and filtering new music. They're great as a tool, but I don't see why they HAVE to replace objects. Part of the The Listening Experience is engaging with the object. Fetishism? Sure .. Bring it on. Things that you interact with, sense, feel and touch .. Knobs, dials, switches .. Remember them? Bring your stupid flaming .. I got plenty of time and lot's of supplies ...
Old 18th December 2010
  #4
Fezzle
Guest
+1



Totally mate, I think it takes all the magic out of music.. I was looking at my parents vynll collection the other day n just had a good feeling when i saw it.. the records, the artwork, the cardboard, all the liner notes..lyrics and credits. Its like when you used to go out n buy a record, even a cd.. you gotta queue in the shop, you look for it walkin around you find it, you get a little buzz right there in the aisle when you see the one you want, as if its sayin to you "Here I am you found me" ! Then you put it in the player n listen, the qualities better, it took more effort to go get it so you experience MUSIC.

I feel this is where both parties are satisfied, the artist and listener. As a listener I feel like wow I really really want to hear this now, so the VALUE is much greater, there greater value for the listener, therefore satisfaction , and you really tune into the record.

Well Lets just say I dont get that feelin much anymore.

What people who download music illagally dont realise, is that theyre not gettin the value they think they are.. they may think great its free... Im pretty sure in my heart they wont enjoy the music even half as much as if they bought it, its a trade of heart n soul. I my opinion thats whats kills music more than the fact that the artist struggles to make money

VIVA LE REVOLUTION!! stike
Old 18th December 2010
  #5
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by roadsweeper View Post
However, a paid subsription at least gets some money (however small) to the artists/producers which is more than most formats that people use today.
I've done a reasonable amount of research on Spotify (hyped mercilessly on Bob Leftsetz's blog). This just doesn't seem to be the case.

Quote:
Originally Posted by roadsweeper View Post
One of my main problems with Spotify is that they don't initially get permission from the owners of the music. There is a couple of albums on Spotify that I worked on that were put there without the owners permission and who wasn't even informed. Needless to say, we haven't received a single payment even though they have been listened to multiple times.
Say no more.
Old 18th December 2010
  #6
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StratSvante's Avatar
 

Yes, the free version, when you pay you skip all the ads, get better quality and some money goes to the artists!

I think spotify is a great way to listen to music, there is alot of music thats unkown and spotify gathers it all together and makes it accesasable and easy. Why all this hate against a service that is a legal step in the right direction against piracy?

And if you don't even pay for it, who are you to complain that artist are disapearing from their archives, you got no right!
Old 18th December 2010
  #7
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sound_music's Avatar
 

good for you man, stick to your guns.

all these companies are searching for the new "model", and i guess that's a good thing, but i'm of the same opinion as you: spotify sucks for all the reasons you listed above. (questionable licencing practices and crappy audio quality being among the most problematic for me personally)

i agree totally: the spotify "model" is not the future.
Old 18th December 2010
  #8
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Anaon's Avatar
I totally agree with the original poster but I even more agree with StratSvante.

The subscription gives you a better quality with no ad. And you can choose the music you want to listen to, free or paid account. Ads are not bad if it's to make this service work and pay the artists.

I have my album there and I get paid. Ridiculously paid but I'm paid heh
Old 18th December 2010
  #9
Gear Addict
 

i love spotify.

i don't need an object (vinyl or cd or whatever) to enjoy music. i discovered my new all time favorite record on spotify.

the sound quality of the free spotify never bothered me. it might be 128 kbps, but it's very well encoded.

the app is faster than itunes

spotify sucks for artists because they don't pay them enough. but that's the only negative point i see.

kids listen to music on youtube. get over it.
Old 18th December 2010
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taa4j6 View Post
kids listen to music on youtube. get over it
Lots of us use Youtube to find and listen to music. It's just another channel ..
Old 18th December 2010
  #11
Lives for gear
 

We have a good discussion going, thanks all for sharing your thoughts!

Internet is useful for bringing more and richer music experiences to people, but it can be utilized much more efficiently. For that to happen we all need to stop invest in solutions like Spotify and instead invest in new fresh solution approaches that care about the long term direction it sets for music. Spotify can still become a great online service, but for that to happen a mind shift needs to take place and that happens sooner when we abandon their current model the way I did today. So I encourage you to do the same.
Old 18th December 2010
  #12
I don't know a lot about Spotify as it's not available in my country.
This is one of the problems of many new internet business models, they are only available in the most profitable areas.
I know many people need to research specific music for work. I do.
I currently use YouTube, if I don't own the album in question.
Old 18th December 2010
  #13
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borg64's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by RainbowStorm View Post
I have been a premium Spotify member for multiple years and today I decided I'm not going to support this anymore, the "music draining effect" is just too high and as a music lover I feel I have the responsibility to immediately act against this and also protect myself against it. In the long term it's not going to fly.
In my opinion, the worst thing about Spotify is - like others mentioned - the extremely low compensation towards artists.

However, Spotify is partly owned by the music business itself. Apart from the two original founders and a contemporary array of risk capitalists, major labels Sony BMG, Universal Music, Warner Music and EMI own about 1/5th of Spotify, shares which were supposedly aquired for next to nothing (less than $15k all in all, according to the investigaton of Swedish magazine Computer Sweden). So while royalty compensations to the artists continue to be ridiculously low, the labels have secured a piece of the cake by shareholding.

Quote:
- Users are allowed to listen to music in **** quality, even worse quality than what was offered in the 80's
Spotify allows Premium subscription users to enable high bitrate, it's under Preferences. Granted, enabling higher bitrate won't magically turn the music in your Spotify library into vinyl records, nor your computer/phone into a turntable, but for most of us that would be highly inconvenient anyway.

You can also import your own local files into Spotify, so if you've digitized your record collection you're not necessarily limited to/by the albums currently available through Spotify.

Also, when doing research on bands, I much prefer to do so via Spotify rather than through YouTube or 30 second iTunes snippets. If I stumble upon something great, I sometimes end up buying it, which seems to be true for many of my Spotify-using friends as well.

Quote:
- Users are allowed to experience ads during music consumption
There are no ads what so ever in the Premium subscription service. Annoying as it may be, Spotify is financing their free services like most other services do. If you're a paying user, no more ads.

Users are also 'allowed' to experience commercials by simply walking outside, watching TV and/or listening to radio. I don't listen to commercial radio, I don't watch much TV but I do take a lot of walks, and I preferably do so outside. I wish I could pay 10 bucks a month to get rid of these ads, but the city of Stockholm doesn't offer this service yet.

Quote:
- Users are allowed to not be able to listen to the music they want and this also has a negative impact on the quality of the music that gets popular
This would only be valid if you use Spotify as your only source of music. Why would anyone choose to do that? I use Spotify as yet another additional way to listen to music, and I have discovered lots of new (and old) acts through it.

Just like in a record store, you don't need to consume the stuff currently headlined by the sales posters - you're free to rummage around as much as you please.

Quote:
- Users are not guaranteed to have access to music they had access to before
Of course they are. This would be like stating: "Hey, I got an iTunes account now, too bad all my vinyls and CDs are now rendered obsolete." Despite popular belief, noone from Spotify will visit your home and trash all your existing vinyls, CDs and harddrives, forcing you to only use Spotify in the future. At least, they never did here.

Spotify's an additional (and legal) way of getting hold of music, and it shouldn't keep you from powering up your other audio systems when so inclined. Naturally, not everyone will like it, but in my opinion there are graver things to dislike about Spotify than the ones mentioned above, which goes for the industry as a whole, where music is too often decimated to business rather than being a channel for artistic passion. Unlike yourself, I'm being weak in this regard, giving in to the convenience of it all.

Old 18th December 2010
  #14
Gear Maniac
 
Tom VDH's Avatar
 

Hi,


To me Spotify and the like are just handy tools, just like the nearest junk food joint might get useful once in a while because that's what you need at that very moment and don't have any other option....now if one wants a real meal, something your whole body will thank you for....

People listening to music off the internet is not a problem as long as they have references, like knowing this is not how's music is supposed to sound at its best.

What I find scary is when kids tell you they don't even know what a vinyl is...

I'm afraid not until people like Spotify start playing Hi-Res files shall we all agree on the real benefit of this format. Until then, I'll be left unfed...
Old 18th December 2010
  #15
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ionian's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by taa4j6 View Post
get over it.


Anyone who uses the words "Get over it" as a point in an argument or a rebuttal should not be allowed to post. Ever.


Frank
Old 19th December 2010
  #16
I guess this could turn into a massive illegal downloads debate but lets not go there.

It seems to me that Spotify are only interested in lining their own pockets. Check this article out about lady gaga.

"But last year it was claimed that over a five-month period, 1m plays of Lady Gaga's hit Poker Face – one of the most popular songs on the site – earned her just $167"


Spotify slammed by songwriters | Music | guardian.co.uk

That's 0.000167p a track!
This is ridiculous they just pass of getting away with it because they actually pay the artist something, obviously that's hardly anything. I used to use free Spotify but got feed up with the quality then found the above article. Apparently if you don't play the track to the end the artist doesn't get a royalty and if you play like a 1/4 of the track the get a 1/4 of the royalty. I imagine a lot of people don't buy records because they have Spotify premium.
Old 19th December 2010
  #17
Gear Nut
 

Not sure what to say about those who haven't seen any royalties from Spotify, as I've been getting payments from them for quite a while. Nothing much, admittedly, but a couple of pennies here, a couple of pennies there.

Fwiw...
Old 19th December 2010
  #18
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Digibear's Avatar
Today I ended my Spotify premium subscription

Quote:
Originally Posted by ionian



Anyone who uses the words "Get over it" as a point in an argument or a rebuttal should not be allowed to post. Ever.


Frank
+1

Sent from my iPhone using Gearslutz
Old 19th December 2010
  #19
at sxsw this year daniel ek was asked in a room packed with about 3,000 people "how many plays on spotify equal just one US Dollar" his answer, "I don't know"... when pressed he was asked "can you give a range... 1,000, 10,000 a 100,000..." his reply again was... "I don't know"... this hardly sounds like any kind of viable solution to help the record industry or artists...
Old 19th December 2010
  #20
Lives for gear
 

Unfortunately I happen to lack insight into the cashflow part of the Spotify model, but from your experience the Spotify business model seems to top the cons list.

I personally like the innovation behind Spotify, it actually does a good attempt of solving a hard problem within a hard business context and provides an option to "illegal" sharing. The question is however, does it really work? There are a few things about this business model that I think works. Enabling people to consume how much music they like is really a good thing for everybody involved. It is good for music, it is good for labels/artists, it is good for the customers and it is good for Spotify. People have limited time for consuming music anyway and they will spend some of that time consuming music they already got access to. However, each such play should yield returns to the label/artist from the monthly subscription fee. This is a brilliant concept. Period. But for this concept to work there must be options provided in their service model that secures profits for the labels/artists and secures a high quality listening experience for the customers. All music should be available and in best possible quality. The players behind Spotify need to do the following:

- Figure out a way to add ALL music in the music universe to the service
- Figure out a subscription fee model that makes it really fair to everyone
- Remove the "ad-driven" free for everyone option which damages the listening experience and the music business as a whole
- Add a high definition option (best available quality) that is enabled on ALL content

Old 19th December 2010
  #21
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ionian View Post
Anyone who uses the words "Get over it" as a point in an argument or a rebuttal should not be allowed to post. Ever.
get over it.
Old 19th December 2010
  #22
Gear Guru
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by taa4j6 View Post
get over it.
Regular comedian aren't ya, laddie? Bless.


With the risk of bending the thread a bit sideways, has anyone got any opinions on menyou.com as a helper out of the mire yet? I do agree spotify is definitely not the future.
Old 19th December 2010
  #23
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sound_music's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sim View Post

Spotify slammed by songwriters | Music | guardian.co.uk

That's 0.000167p a track!

Apparently if you don't play the track to the end the artist doesn't get a royalty and if you play like a 1/4 of the track the get a 1/4 of the royalty. I imagine a lot of people don't buy records because they have Spotify premium.
yup, these "token" royalty payments are the major problem with spotify. i'm of the same opinon as you sim, they're using these miniscule royalty payments as an arguement for their own legitimacy, but the real numbers for copyright holders are laughable next to what they're actually bringing in in ad revenue and subscription dollars.

the mere fact that they pay anything to artists allows them to put themselves on a pedestal next to the pirates--it's an illusion of legitimacy. pretty clever and lucrative for spotify, but by no means a sustainable revenue stream for the artists they rely on.
Old 19th December 2010
  #24
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sound_music's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karloff70 View Post
has anyone got any opinions on menyou.com as a helper out of the mire yet?
aside from it sounding like a gay porn site, (yet another case of a new business model shooting their image in the foot right out of the gate... lol! ouch!)... this is the first i've heard of it.

just watched their little introduction video, at first glance it seems like flowery idea that would be an absolute nightmare to manage and administrate from a legal standpoint. "makes it possible for anyone to earn money on digital content... you can easily earn money by selling your own, or other people's creations... anyone can distribute and resell... everyone can sell content to anyone, all over the world..."

just what we need, more "experts" getting into the music distribution business!

admittedly i didn't have time to read the fine print, but at first glance it looks like a can of worms best left unopened: how are the rights secured and ownership verified? how are payments managed, and to whom exactly? what protections are in place to limit fradulent claims to the copyrights in question? i didn't find any information on their site that addresses these fundamental questions...

but maybe all that's not important: with a name like "menyou".com, they're probably getting a million hits a day from patrons of other fine internet establishments such as "men4you".com, "hotboys".gay, and "man-mustard".net... lol!!

(whatever it is, this thing is never gonna work: these people really, really don't understand the first thing about music marketing or the internet.)
Old 19th December 2010
  #25
Gear Guru
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 

Maybe you do need to read a little more info and take your "I bet this is about gays, giggle giggle"-specs off before making some more useful comments mate.....
Old 19th December 2010
  #26
Gear Head
 

God argument if I may say so.
and again, the reason they can do it and why they where allowed to move with their business model is that the record companies where seeded to already own shares, which is where the only potential profit is up to today at least.
Love the experience as a consumer, hate it from a political/composer's POV.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sound_music View Post

the mere fact that they pay anything to artists allows them to put themselves on a pedestal next to the pirates--it's an illusion of legitimacy. pretty clever and lucrative for spotify, but by no means a sustainable revenue stream for the artists they rely on.
Old 19th December 2010
  #27
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karloff, i just posted on the thread you've started about menyou, so go have a look over there. i think the basic idea of wanting to pay artists and rewarding the fan with a discount for their loyalty is awesome on paper--but there are alot of unanswered questions about the model.

and btw i'm just trying to point out that it's an extremely unfortunate choice of name for their project that's based on an INTERNET SITE--i'm not having a "chuckle at the expense of gays" or whatever you're insinuating. i'm stating the obvious. (and yes it's funny--not because homsexuals are funny as you are accusing me of, i never said or implied anything of the sort. it's funny because your friend is trying to sell music with a name that sounds like a porno site. gay or straight is the same marketing problem: it sounds like a porno site!) it's a TERRIBLE name for a music distribution service!!

i raised a number of questions about the difficulty of managing this system, none of which are addressed on their site. care to comment?
Old 19th December 2010
  #28
Gear Guru
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 

You must know more about such sites than me, as that connection was not made in my head. Whether the name is good is arguable, sure, but if the service turns out a winner I personally do not believe the name would hold it back once up and running.

Can't comment about the difficulties that arise in the model, as I do not know the detail myself. I am NOT part of this site, nor fully aware in a detailed way how exactly it is going to work. I am merely interested in if you chaps think this CAN work or not, and why.
Old 19th December 2010
  #29
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sound_music's Avatar
 

it doesn't take a connoisseur of internet dirty-pages to recognize a name that will instantly be associated with such things... even my grandmother knows half of the internet is dominated by porno! i'm assuming the guys behind this idea are not native english speakers, so that's probably the root of the problem. but anyway...

at least from my point of view, until further info is published about the nuts and bolts of this site/idea, and until they change the name, it's a lost cause not worth wasting time discussing...

unfortunate. based on your post in the other thread, it sounds like an initiative that comes from a good place. the issue of the music industry being hammered by the tech industry in terms of image and marketing has been discussed to death on these forums: giant marketing gaffes like this certainly don't help!
Old 19th December 2010
  #30
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by roadsweeper View Post
One of my main problems with Spotify is that they don't initially get permission from the owners of the music. There is a couple of albums on Spotify that I worked on that were put there without the owners permission and who wasn't even informed. Needless to say, we haven't received a single payment even though they have been listened to multiple times.
If this is true then someone's made a big mistake. Spotify don't put up any music without the owner's permission. They have a page on their website stating this very firmly. Think about it: if they just ripped music and stuck it up there, they'd have lawsuits coming at them from all angles.

Ask the musician what distribution deal they have. Are they signed with a distributor? Any of those aggregate online distributors, that deal with things like iTunes, CDBaby or whoever? If so, that'll be what's happened: that distributor will have put your music on Spotify.

Exactly the same thing happened to a friend of mine: he found his album on Spotify and was outraged. It then transpired that his distributor had licensed it, as part of their online distribution package.

If you haven't seen any money from it, ask your distributor. Bear in mind that Spotify royalties are tiny: you'd have to get thousands of plays to even make a dollar's worth of a royalty.
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