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Snare Toms Kick - Modern mixing for loudness - compression or samples?
Old 17th December 2010
  #1
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Snare Toms Kick - Modern mixing for loudness - compression or samples?

I'm curious from those on the board that do mix top releases if any in the heavy rock/metal genre are still being mixed without use of drum samples? I feel like it's getting harder to tell when not being used as an effect. I don't mix a whole lot and I've never mixed with samples, so I guess I don't really know what's possible.

My thought is engineers probably get the body and long round decay from heavily processed samples due to the fact you can only go so far with compression and makeup gain on a miced kit before the ride bell is perceived as loud as the snare on the same mic . The transient is probably a mix of the processed original take and processed sample. Parallel compression of the original take is used to bring some cohesion of the kit into the mix, and maybe some sidechain compression helps the girth of the mega, elongated transients (if you call them that anymore since they release slower than a mac truck at a red light) sit in the mix a little better as necessary.

All this after a mix engineer is going to use samples instead of an amazing kit I pain-staking miced and produced some killer close-miced results from...I dunno. Thoughts?
Old 17th December 2010
  #2
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theBackwardsman's Avatar
 

I think Tom Lord Alge Mixes like the Angels and Airwaves stuff are about as heavy as you get without samples, (doesnt sound like samples at least) it sounds like great tone, hard hitting drummer alot of neve compression, probably parallel action and loots of room
Old 17th December 2010
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theBackwardsman View Post
I think Tom Lord Alge Mixes like the Angels and Airwaves stuff are about as heavy as you get without samples, (doesnt sound like samples at least) it sounds like great tone, hard hitting drummer alot of neve compression, probably parallel action and loots of room
Tom uses samples, he just makes them from the actual session so they sound natural. That's the big difference between his mixes and guys like CLA & Dave Ben etc.... IMO of course.....
Old 17th December 2010
  #4
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I just can't tell if some of these records are really mixed in ways I'm not capable of mixing due to lack of knowledge or there is use of a tool I don't have which allows them attain a certain result.

I feel like a kid at a magic shop trying to figure out how to do a trick. The appeal is in not knowing how. I suppose if I knew an album was sampled, I wouldn't feel so inadequate in my abilities to mix without samples =)
Old 17th December 2010
  #5
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lasso's Avatar
 

clipping and / or brickwall limiting can get drums very loud in the mix. Nobody hears those transients anywayheh
Old 17th December 2010
  #6
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Couple albums I've enjoyed lately where I feel like there is some not so obvious kit sampleing going on.

Daughtry - Leave this Town
KillSwitch Engage - KSE
Hinder - Take it to the Limit

I love the mixes on all of these for different reasons.
Old 18th December 2010
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbad199 View Post
Couple albums I've enjoyed lately where I feel like there is some not so obvious kit sampleing going on.

Daughtry - Leave this Town
KillSwitch Engage - KSE
Hinder - Take it to the Limit

I love the mixes on all of these for different reasons.
I agree those are great-sounding records. thumbsup

The Hinder album is a typical CLA job though and everything that comes with it including drum sounds. Their previous record, on the other hand, was mixed by Randy Staub and I can't hear any sample layering going on there (which doesn't necessarily mean there isn't ;-)). It sounds a lot more 'live' and raw for better or worse. Check it out! (If you haven't yet ;-))
Old 22nd December 2010
  #8
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theBackwardsman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Bartlem View Post
Tom uses samples, he just makes them from the actual session so they sound natural. That's the big difference between his mixes and guys like CLA & Dave Ben etc.... IMO of course.....
Stuff like blink 182 and angels and airwaves doesnt sound like he used any though.
Old 22nd December 2010
  #9
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ARIEL's Avatar
It all depends on the sound and vibe you want to create , I am a huge fan of replacement in my productions. But if I am doing a jazz thing then i leave it.I always sample the drummers drum kit with multi samples that are dynamic then use them in mix later on. Sometimes they just have really bad kits and no budget so you have to use samples to make it sound good . Yes your right with a sample you can really shape and eq it without worrying about bleed.
Old 22nd December 2010
  #10
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Almost every major rock record out there will have samples on it.
And at least 90% of "hard rock / metal" bands in the last 6 years will have had some sort of replacement or augmenting on there.

The trick is making it sound natural, while getting the sound that it deserves.
I use augmentation a lot just because a lot of the time the player doesn't really attack the kick the way they should - and you've gotta add some punch.

[I guess in days gone by, you'd just get a proper drummer in to replace.. but that's not the done thing these days!]
Old 22nd December 2010
  #11
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IMO, if youre trying to get huge fat and splatty snares, it aint gonna happen without a sample because those samples have to be localized and squashed with compression and limiting to make them do that. The sound must especially be recorded in a controlled environment and not a ringy bedroom or livingroom. I would suggest if your not getting the snare or kick sounds you like try steven slate drums with drumagog program. Its probably the best out there, its what I use all the time when Im wanting those kinda sounding drums. I can get the indie or low-fi or nice country drums no problem but the arena rock boom pow!, is a bit tough to nail without sampling.
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