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Screw auto tune Virtual Instrument Plugins
Old 16th December 2010
  #1
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j-uk's Avatar
 

Screw auto tune

Yes I know all the arguments to why we are forced to use pitch correction, the demands from record labels, artists etc.
The simple fact is that we're not. There's always an opportunity to argue back, convince the nay sayers that yes you can keep a great take just as it is without pitch correcting all human life out of it.
Don't get me wrong pitch correction is a great tool and there's nothing wrong with fine tuning a note here and there but I think most people on this side of the fence agree that it's getting silly now.....
All those great albums that we've grown up with. What makes those albums great are in my opinion down to as much as the great performances, the flaws in those performances.
We're conditioning a whole future generation to not be able to listen to a real human performance without thinking there is something wrong with it unless every note is pitched in to perfection.
Screw that. I do not want to hear a re-released remixed MJ, Stevie et al album tuned to lifeless mush......

Just say no!

Seasons Greetings

J
Old 16th December 2010
  #2
I'm not sure if that's entirely true, that an entire generation will be ruined due to Autotune.

I think that overuse of Autotune as an effect will pass, as well as overly loud records. Not everyone does this. It will be fine for some artists, but others will realize that these things will badly date their music.

The Beatles still sell as well as ever, and they have plenty of young buyers and downloaders. Same with all classic pop. Quality will win the war.
Old 16th December 2010
  #3
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Danny Downer's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by baskervils View Post
I'm not sure if that's entirely true, that an entire generation will be ruined due to Autotune.

I think that overuse of Autotune as an effect will pass, as well as overly loud records. Not everyone does this. It will be fine for some artists, but others will realize that these things will badly date their music.

The Beatles still sell as well as ever, and they have plenty of young buyers and downloaders. Same with all classic pop. Quality will win the war.
Damn Right! Nothing to add!
Old 16th December 2010
  #4
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waxx's Avatar
 

and enough music doesn't use autotune, or use autotune as effect (like a delay, or real vocoder is used as effect). But it's true that it's way beyond the line of acceptance now in the general mainstream pop...

But i hope it will also fade away like the gated verb of the 80's did...
Old 16th December 2010
  #5
Gear Maniac
 

I think AT as an effect will always stay that way - heard as an effect. The same way you can still hear cheesy synth or gated verb as an occasional effect even today. Cannibalized artifacts for nostalgic purposes, or for a particular intent.

AT as a performance fixer won't be going anywhere either. It'll get better, and technicians will get better at using it, and as time goes on we'll notice it there less and less.

Frankly, if you're listening to the Auto Tune and not the song, there's a lot more wrong than just pitch correction happening.

"Learn to sing" is not a real alternative to AT. It's a rhetorical device.
Old 16th December 2010
  #6
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Benmrx's Avatar
 

My family has our own 'holiday event' we do every year that usually happens the first week of December... this way it doesn't interfere with any other families obligations (spouses, divorced parents, etc.)...... and it's a combination of Thanksgiving, Christmas and Hanukkah... we call it "Thanksmaskah"

This year my mom brought the "Glee Christmas CD" and I was basically forced to listen to it not once....., but twice. The third time I simply protested and put in the "Jackson 5 Christmas Album". That Glee CD was HORRIBLE!! The Autotune on those songs was SOOO obvious, painful and robotic..., although you could tell that they were actually trying to make it sound somewhat real. I.E., there weren't any 'T-Pain' effects going on..., but damn... it almost sounded like the Chipmunks it was all so flat and lifeless. The absolute worst part is that now some of those songs are burned into memory... I honestly think it's the worst CD ever made... EVER.. PERIOD!!
Old 16th December 2010
  #7
Gear Maniac
 

I don't doubt that Glee CD is among the worst ever. But like I said - if you're sitting there listening to the AT, there was probably a multitude of quality failures NOT related to AT that got you to that point
Old 16th December 2010
  #8
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roger's Avatar
 

auto-tune....in any shape or form....is OF THE DEVIL!!!!

if you can't sing.....get OUT the studio!
Old 16th December 2010
  #9
Gear Maniac
 

most working engineers don't really have the luxury of telling that to their clients.
Old 16th December 2010
  #10
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gussyg2007's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by roger View Post
auto-tune....in any shape or form....is OF THE DEVIL!!!!

if you can't sing.....get OUT the studio!
Oh man and we can dream ...... A day when only ppl who actually sing are the only ones who walk into the studio.
Unfortunately there is a certain amount of bill payers who want magic fairy dust with there studio time
Polish! polish! polish! turd! turd! turd ! =$$$$$
Old 16th December 2010
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sleep over jack View Post
- if you're sitting there listening to the AT, there was probably a multitude of quality failures NOT related to AT that got you to that point
I don't think that's fair to say. Suppose I had an orchestra recording where the producer overdubbed farts all over the place. I would certainly be "sitting there listening to the farts" instead of enjoying the music for what it is. And it would not be the quality of something other than the farts that got me to that point.

Sure that is hyperbole, but my point is that Autotune is easily distracting enough to ruin a production all on it's own.

As a prominent effect it is worn-out.
As a transparent fix-it, it leads to boring vanilla vocals.
As a fix-it in the hands of somebody who can't quite hide it, it is horribly jarring.

Kill it.



Or do something else with it.
It would be cool if you could side-chain a guide tone. Like you take a clarinet recording and a trombone recording of the same melody. Then you feed the trombone recording into Autotune as a guide for processing the clarinet and end up with a clarinet that can slide all over the place like a trombone.
...until that effect also gets worn out.
Old 16th December 2010
  #12
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Jeff Hayat's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by roger View Post
auto-tune....in any shape or form....is OF THE DEVIL!!!!

if you can't sing.....get OUT the studio!
Ha ha - I wouldn't argue with that!

Quote:
Originally Posted by baskervils View Post
The Beatles still sell as well as ever, and they have plenty of young buyers and downloaders.
Sure - but they sang in key. If the Beatles were putting out those records today - would they use pitch correction? No - they wouldn't need it.

Cheers.
Old 16th December 2010
  #13
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ZFire's Avatar
 

I have no doubt that within the next decade or two, auto-tune will be both real-time and virtually undetectable. And probably selectable for voice-timbre so you can sound like anybody.
Old 16th December 2010
  #14
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F**k autotune!
Old 16th December 2010
  #15
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Berolzheimer's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZFire View Post
I have no doubt that within the next decade or two, auto-tune will be both real-time and virtually undetectable. And probably selectable for voice-timbre so you can sound like anybody.
That doesn't matter. Because what you DON"T hear when pitch "correction" is used is the original, real performance.
Old 16th December 2010
  #16
As Allan Smithee always says: The man with the gold, makes the rules.


But, yeah, customers ask you do to all kinds of unseemly stuff. If I were to go back to taking clients, I think I would write a clause into my basic contract stipulating that my name (which means little to anyone but me -- but quite a bit to me) could not be used without my final approval.

And, though my name isn't on the back of exactly hundreds of records, one of the ones it is on was one where the tracks were taken off a cheap cassette of super quick, end-of-session take-home mixes. (The tape was from a super low budget, 8-track 1/2 inch compilation project I never got paid for and so kept the mix tapes from. A few years later, one of the bands went into a decent 24 track studio, recorded 8 songs and needed 4 more to fill out the album. The one time my name gets spelled right.)
Old 16th December 2010
  #17
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ZFire's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Berolzheimer View Post
That doesn't matter. Because what you DON"T hear when pitch "correction" is used is the original, real performance.
It will take auto-tune into the realm of live performance, for far more than just the effected Kanye-esque thing. Do you think that someone like Taylor Swift wouldn't use it? Of course she would. Lord knows she needs it. Hell, Paul McCartney needs it these days.

And eventually the diva-du-jour will be singing, and some disgruntled employee is going to hit "bypass" on the "Celine Dion preset" in the middle of a national broadcast... and that will be fun.
Old 16th December 2010
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZFire View Post
It will take auto-tune into the realm of live performance, for far more than just the effected Kanye-esque thing. Do you think that someone like Taylor Swift wouldn't use it? Of course she would. Lord knows she needs it. Hell, Paul McCartney needs it these days.
I thought real-time Autotune was already used live? Like what's-his-name singing the country songs...

Anyway, I don't care how fast, accurate, and transparent they make it. It will always be inferior to somebody actually singing. Uncanny Valley. Look it up. The closer you get to "real", the more off-putting it is.
Old 16th December 2010
  #19
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Meko's Avatar
 

you are wishing for autotune to disappear?! seriously??? you know what I wish for? I wished all those bumptiuos people that never stop believing they were to decide what was worth listening to and what not would just shut it once and for all. who the hell do you think you are?

apart from being very unpromising, bashing autotune again and again makes you more and more ridiculous because you seem to not be looking for the big picture. It appears you channel your diffuse hate against certain music into one singular emergence, that being autotune for now. approaching the problems of today's music like that makes it easy to communicate about it in a polemic manner, but it is not very reflected and will not get us anywhere I'm afraid.

I'm gonna autotune the **** out of my vox now.
Old 16th December 2010
  #20
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by baskervils View Post
I'm not sure if that's entirely true, that an entire generation will be ruined due to Autotune.

I think that overuse of Autotune as an effect will pass, as well as overly loud records. Not everyone does this. It will be fine for some artists, but others will realize that these things will badly date their music.

The Beatles still sell as well as ever, and they have plenty of young buyers and downloaders. Same with all classic pop. Quality will win the war.
I agree, autotune is more of an effect, that is way overused. It's laughable, where the only thing that makes these pop artists unique (their voice) gets crushed to the point of being unrecognizable.

I'm a tone freak and find that 90% of the popular music out there sounds identical in terms of tone. This is more of a marketing effort than a creative/musical one. It's popular right now, and many people listen to music that they can "get" right away and be done with right away. Matching our disposable society to a T.

I hate auto-tune, not because it makes people sound "perfect" but because it makes them sound stale. I can always tell when something has been auto-correctred, and it sounds silly to my ears. I find it very obnoxious sounding. my opinion of corse.
Old 16th December 2010
  #21
This topic is getting as old as autotune abuse. I'd rather correct an emotional performance then a perfect one pitchwise with no emotion. There are other things to consider when it comes to a good vocal. Articulation, tempo, delivery, vocal tone. All these things come into play and sometimes a note is off but has the right tone, so correct the note and move on. It is a fine balance though and prone to operator error. One persons too far is one persons not enough.
Old 16th December 2010
  #22
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Unclenny's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by roger View Post
if you can't sing.....get OUT the studio!
I can't sing. If you don't trust my opinion check my link.

I think I'll stay in the studio. I do not own any autotune type software.

However........in my collaborative project (JDL Band) my partner applied some very skillfull tuning to my vocals. I honestly could not hear it, but I will say that it seemed to smooth out some of the harsh edges.
Old 16th December 2010
  #23
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AudioWonderland's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by j-uk View Post
Yes I know all the arguments to why we are forced to use pitch correction, the demands from record labels, artists etc.
The simple fact is that we're not. There's always an opportunity to argue back, convince the nay sayers that yes you can keep a great take just as it is without pitch correcting all human life out of it.
Don't get me wrong pitch correction is a great tool and there's nothing wrong with fine tuning a note here and there but I think most people on this side of the fence agree that it's getting silly now.....
All those great albums that we've grown up with. What makes those albums great are in my opinion down to as much as the great performances, the flaws in those performances.
We're conditioning a whole future generation to not be able to listen to a real human performance without thinking there is something wrong with it unless every note is pitched in to perfection.
Screw that. I do not want to hear a re-released remixed MJ, Stevie et al album tuned to lifeless mush......

Just say no!

Seasons Greetings

J
The vast majority of listeners couldn't tell if there was a minor pitch issue or not. They never minded it in the 50s/60s/70s. When did listeners become so critically attuned to the music they are listening to?
Old 16th December 2010
  #24
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AudioWonderland's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by gussyg2007 View Post
Oh man and we can dream ...... A day when only ppl who actually sing are the only ones who walk into the studio.
Unfortunately there is a certain amount of bill payers who want magic fairy dust with there studio time
Polish! polish! polish! turd! turd! turd ! =$$$$$
I don't care if weekend warriors want to touch up their stuff. Why are major label releases from so called professional musicians using it?
Old 16th December 2010
  #25
Gear Addict
 

One reason why singers in the past did not use Auto-Tune was because it didn't exist. No, really. I've worked with several artists who recorded throughout the 70s, 80s, and 90s. One or two are particularly amazing. They have really good ears and a nearly perfect sense of pitch. They hit a wrong note now and then, but they can hear it and they do another take to fix it. But they all like Auto-Tune. They're usually close enough to the correct pitch that any use of Auto-Tune is very slight, and sometimes it saves doing additional takes. They have all told me that if they had Auto-Tune in the old days, they would have used it (along with digital editing to comp tracks instead of punching in).

But coming from singers at their level, it sounds more credible because they did pay their dues and they can actually sing. But they're not above using AT for any artistic or ethical reasons (although if a note was significantly out, they would probably do another take ). For them, AT is a tool that they can also live without. The problem is that newer singers can tend to rely on it. I've had a few of them as well. And the truth is - AT rarely helps. It still takes dozens of takes to get them close enough for AT to tune them in a way that sounds halfway acceptable. It's a complete joke. And most of them could probably improve if they did a little practice or training on their own outside of the studio. But they don't.
Old 17th December 2010
  #26
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by baskervils View Post
I'm not sure if that's entirely true, that an entire generation will be ruined due to Autotune.
Right, not due to Autotune. Poor old Autotune, it's just a symptom.
Old 17th December 2010
  #27
Gear Maniac
 
Core's Avatar
 

Things like pitch correction, time correction or drum replacement are tools that can be helpful but can also kill your music when you get overzealous with them. I am producing a multi-song project with a female singer; she has good pretty good pitch, but on one of the songs I hand-tuned every single note because I was really anal about having it in key, plus I was going for kind of a "modern" sound. So, after a while I started to get sick of the song and started to think it really sucked. Then, by accident, I listened to the untuned vocal tracks and was blown away by how much more life and energy the song had! I didn't realize I was strangling the life out of the vocals!
Old 17th December 2010
  #28
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Even as an effect, it sounds like ass. It was cool for about a week when Cher had that song that abused it. Now you can hear it working on every pop track. It makes you wonder if any record execs can even hear.
Old 17th December 2010
  #29
Gear Guru
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Hayat View Post
Sure - but they sang in key. If the Beatles were putting out those records today - would they use pitch correction? No - they wouldn't need it.

Cheers.
"Need" is a funny word. Did they sing perfectly in tune? If you've had the chance to hear split tracks of soloed vocals, you know the answer is no.

Would they have been "better" with ottotune? That would be a subjective question. My answer would be no. Well, to be fair, more like F*CK NO!!!!!
Old 17th December 2010
  #30
Gear Guru
Quote:
Originally Posted by sleep over jack View Post

"Learn to sing" is not a real alternative to AT. It's a rhetorical device.
I have to strongly disagree with that.
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