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Screw auto tune Virtual Instrument Plugins
Old 18th December 2010
  #91
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AudioWonderland's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Halloween View Post
Are you saying its not ok?
For me personally? No, it isn't.
Old 18th December 2010
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
...and yet again an autotune thread divides into those of us who do this for a living, and the idealistic amateurs who pick and choose what they work on because, however talented they may be, they don't have to pay the bills with their studio.
You make art or you make product. Whether you get paid for doing it is irrelevant
Old 18th December 2010
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AudioWonderland View Post
You make art or you make product. Whether you get paid for doing it is irrelevant
All great art becomes a product because people desire it. Also autotune is mostly about pop music which is not necessarily high art (although it can be).
True artists aren't concerned with rules and convention and dogma.
Old 18th December 2010
  #94
Gear Maniac
 

Coincidently I took auto tune off one of my songs last night, ( i wasn't in graphic mode, just automatic ) and noticed how much more air there was, and how the plastic AT sheen left the vocals. Sure there are a few off notes now, but 95% of the vocals sounded better in terms of performance and sonics.

Still, I wish i could be bothered learning the graphic mode, i'd use it for the odd note here and there with no regrets.
Old 18th December 2010
  #95
As a dare:

Record a song and tune none of the instruments and sing as badly as you can and use Autotune on everything and set everything as incorrectly as possible.

Just for fun.
Old 18th December 2010
  #96
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Halloween's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by AudioWonderland View Post
For me personally? No, it isn't.
haha!
Old 18th December 2010
  #97
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j-uk's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AudioWonderland View Post
While I agree with Albini about capturing a performance, the rest is nonsense. I have never seen a DAW edit a song. Someone always had to sit down and force it to. We make the choices, not the tools.
Neither have I. You simply can't read apparently..?
I said that DAWs are geared towards editing the material after it's been recorded, not that DAWs edit the material after the fact by themselves........
Old 18th December 2010
  #98
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j-uk's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
...and yet again an autotune thread divides into those of us who do this for a living, and the idealistic amateurs who pick and choose what they work on because, however talented they may be, they don't have to pay the bills with their studio.
It's Gearslutz.......... I did not expect an adult conversation among peers.
Old 18th December 2010
  #99
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roger's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AudioWonderland View Post
Pump your own gas. What the hell are you talking about? You sound like I am in favor of AT which I am not.
dude my aim was off...i humbly beg your forgiveness.....but put out that cig.
Old 18th December 2010
  #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PRobb View Post
Just to set the record straight, Martin considered Pete Best not good enough. When the Beatles came back with Ringo that was the end of the session drummers.

Other than that, you make valid points.
Session drummer Andy White (at Martin's insistence) drummed on Love Me Do. Ringo played tambourine. There's a version on Anthology on which Ringo plays drums.
Old 18th December 2010
  #101
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AudioWonderland's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by j-uk View Post
Neither have I. You simply can't read apparently..?
I said that DAWs are geared towards editing the material after it's been recorded, not that DAWs edit the material after the fact by themselves........
I can read just fine. You apparently cant think past the basic principle and understand the bigger picture
Old 18th December 2010
  #102
Quote:
Originally Posted by AudioWonderland View Post
You make art or you make product. Whether you get paid for doing it is irrelevant
Pretentious twaddle.

I do a job that I love, and if it occasionally means that I don't agree with the artistic decisions, then I'll still do it because it means that I don't have to work in an office, or do another job that I detest or merely tolerate, because it has to pay the bills.

At the end of the day, anyone who sticks that strongly to their principles in this industry either won't get enough work, or has to be incredibly lucky enough to find a niche that means they'll be indulged (or be successful enough that they don't need to listen to others). Albini, Liam Watson (Toe Rag) fit into this area. I don't know anyone who pays the bills 100% with music work who can dictate these sorts of terms.

You don't have to agree, it's just how I see it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Star Ark View Post
Coincidently I took auto tune off one of my songs last night, ( i wasn't in graphic mode, just automatic ) and noticed how much more air there was, and how the plastic AT sheen left the vocals. Sure there are a few off notes now, but 95% of the vocals sounded better in terms of performance and sonics.

Still, I wish i could be bothered learning the graphic mode, i'd use it for the odd note here and there with no regrets.
If you're using it automatically, I 100% agree! I never use automatic mode apart from for monitor bounces.

Quote:
Originally Posted by j-uk View Post
It's Gearslutz.......... I did not expect an adult conversation among peers.
Mm, we're not doing TOO badly....just the same voices stating the same opinions (I include myself in this). Adult, but predictable.
Old 18th December 2010
  #103
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j-uk's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AudioWonderland View Post
I can read just fine. You apparently cant think past the basic principle and understand the bigger picture
You undoubtedly do I presume.
Your cynical comments made from the sidelines may pass as wise world weary words in your parts but I'm sorry mate simple sarcasm without wit is just that... Try and be constructive in your thinking.
Old 18th December 2010
  #104
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j-uk's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
Pretentious twaddle.

I do a job that I love, and if it occasionally means that I don't agree with the artistic decisions, then I'll still do it because it means that I don't have to work in an office, or do another job that I detest or merely tolerate, because it has to pay the bills.

At the end of the day, anyone who sticks that strongly to their principles in this industry either won't get enough work, or has to be incredibly lucky enough to find a niche that means they'll be indulged (or be successful enough that they don't need to listen to others). Albini, Liam Watson (Toe Rag) fit into this area. I don't know anyone who pays the bills 100% with music work who can dictate these sorts of terms.

You don't have to agree, it's just how I see it.
Sure it's not easy going against a client and it can be a hard decision considering who will get the blame if it doesn't pan out.
I still think it's in the interest of people working in the recording industry to curb the overuse of AT et al.
I'm not saying and never have stated don't use it at all and for anyone finding that a contradiction.... tough...
Leave some of the imperfection in the performances and let it be human.....
Old 18th December 2010
  #105
Quote:
Originally Posted by j-uk View Post
Sure it's not easy going against a client and it can be a hard decision considering who will get the blame if it doesn't pan out.
I still think it's in the interest of people working in the recording industry to curb the overuse of AT et al.
I'm not saying and never have stated don't use it at all and for anyone finding that a contradiction.... tough...
Leave some of the imperfection in the performances and let it be human.....
I say perfection is in the ear of the listener, and "perfect" tuning is not a "perfect" performance.

If something bothers me because it's out of tune or time, I'm not going to say "it's human" and leave it - I'm going to fix it. If it doesn't bother me, but bothers my client, I'll fix it. If neither of us think it sounds out (or both like the way it sounds out), I'll leave it.

It's really not rocket science to fix the notes that are out (using autotune/melodyne) but leave the personality in. If you (as in any particular person, not you personally!) can't do it, fine. I agree a lot of pop is over done, but that's partly the aesthetic, not just because it can't be made to sound more natural.

I see nothing wrong with making someone sound better than they are. If we left every band to sound 100% natural, it'd be a pretty dull music world. Virtually everything in music is "cheating" - it's all down to where you draw the line.

Mr Audiowonderland for example doesn't seem to realise that anything other than everyone round a pair of stereo microphones is just as much "cheating" as re-timing, re-tuning etc a polished performance. He just chooses to put his dividing line as to what is acceptable in a different place to someone like me. Which is all well and good, until you start preaching that what you're doing is somehow "purer" and better than other music that's been manipulated to within an inch of it's life. It's not - it's just different.
Old 20th December 2010
  #106
anyone who is against autodyne has obviously never recorded an amateur horn section
Old 20th December 2010
  #107
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AcoosticZoo's Avatar
I don't mind autotune on my own voice. It helps me collab with real singers.

I love pitch correction. But, in regards to tuning professional singers, this is often avoided if we take the time to do many takes. It's still "cheating" by selecting the best phrases, but the extra work is worth it in the end.

The same can be said for "Color" correction, make-up etc in film/video production.

The world has too much flaws, hence manufactured "perfection" as art.

Regards
Josef horhay
Mixing Engineer
www.acoosticzoo.com
Old 20th December 2010
  #108
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ianbryn11's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by baskervils View Post
As a dare:

Record a song and tune none of the instruments and sing as badly as you can and use Autotune on everything and set everything as incorrectly as possible.

Just for fun.
I recorded a song once which I called "**** to chaos".... it started with a "****ty" keyboard riff and poorly programmed drums and slowly evolved into a frenzy of keyboard mashing and out of tune everything.... it was definitly no hit.... however, I did play it for a few friends who actually liked it.... I think it comes down to "intention".... things can sound as crazy as u want them to as long as that is what u want to make them sound like....
Old 20th December 2010
  #109
Gear Addict
I don't use autotune but...

People who consider autotune cheating, don't you consider editing cheating too? I mean, we cut what we didn't like, we EQ the instruments to avoid interferences between frequencies...

If you consider autotune cheating I expect that you record with only two mics all the band together in the first take... Using more than two mics is cheating, because humans have only two ears... And a second take is cheating, because we can't travel back to the past
Old 20th December 2010
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WarrenBeat View Post
People who consider autotune cheating, don't you consider editing cheating too? I mean, we cut what we didn't like, we EQ the instruments to avoid interferences between frequencies...

If you consider autotune cheating I expect that you record with only two mics all the band together in the first take... Using more than two mics is cheating, because humans have only two ears... And a second take is cheating, because we can't travel back to the past
It's not cheating. I mean, what the hell is cheating? We can do whatever we want in the studio. The issue isn't that the morality police are going to swoop in and scold us.

The issue is that it sounds like ass.

It was one thing 10 years ago. But Autotune in 2010 is the equivalent of some parallel universe where dense digital gated reverb was still growing in prominence in 1996 instead of being long extinct.
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