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Screw auto tune Virtual Instrument Plugins
Old 17th December 2010
  #31
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kennybro's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by theblue1 View Post
As Allan Smithee always says: [I]The man with the gold, makes the rules.
Didn't he direct Dune?heh
Old 17th December 2010
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meko View Post
I'm gonna autotune the **** out of my vox now.
its late
Old 17th December 2010
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by j-uk View Post
We're conditioning a whole future generation to not be able to listen to a real human performance without thinking there is something wrong with it unless every note is pitched in to perfection.
I totally agree with this.

Scenes like this:

"Man that drummer was really awful! There was a couple times where he hit the wrong drum and even a few times where he didn't keep time with the guitarist."

Or:

"I think that band needs to find a new singer. The current one just doesn't sound like today's hot artists. I mean the person's voice sounded like us talking here ya know? Like not all cool and stuff."

It makes me want to puke.
Old 17th December 2010
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jordanvoth View Post
This topic is getting as old as autotune abuse. I'd rather correct an emotional performance then a perfect one pitchwise with no emotion.
Everybody who trots out this argument always leaves off the third and best choice: An emotional performance that you don't correct.

If the choices are artificial correction, no emotion, or a note that's a bit off, I'll take the note that's a bit off every time.
Old 17th December 2010
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Hayat View Post

Sure - but they sang in key. If the Beatles were putting out those records today - would they use pitch correction? No - they wouldn't need it.
Cheers.
I think if the Beatles put out those recordings as a relatively new band they would, without a doubt be tuned. You can throw up just about anyone's vocal on one of those programs and see how most of the notes will be sharp or flat by a few cents. I would think that if the label has the power, everything gets tuned to some degree.
Old 17th December 2010
  #36
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If used correctly as a tool to fix anomalies you can still have an emotional performance with a few boo boo's fixed. Don't throw out the baby with the bathwater. If used properly it's not much different than punching in on a word to fix a flat note or two without all the drudgery. Blame the abusers not the tool. Ever have a great horn performance but a few notes are off and you can't get the horn player back? Autotune can be your friend.
Old 17th December 2010
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heimel View Post
If used correctly as a tool to fix anomalies you can still have an emotional performance with a few boo boo's fixed. Don't throw out the baby with the bathwater. If used properly it's not much different than punching in on a word to fix a flat note or two without all the drudgery. Blame the abusers not the tool. Ever have a great horn performance but a few notes are off and you can't get the horn player back? Autotune can be your friend.
In true GS style people stop reading the OP and only refer to the comments.
I am not saying don't use AT, simply leave some life in the performance and don't fix every little thing.....
Old 17th December 2010
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AudioWonderland View Post
The vast majority of listeners couldn't tell if there was a minor pitch issue or not. They never minded it in the 50s/60s/70s. When did listeners become so critically attuned to the music they are listening to?
They didn't mind because they were never lead to believe there was anything wrong with the performances.
People are in general pretty attuned to the music they listen to but they are listening to the whole picture rather then fragmented pieces of it.
Play someone a 60s tune and they'll accept it for what it is. Play them something that uses retro techniques and sounds and they'll identify it as having a 60s sound.
The overuse of AT and all it's incarnation is creating a 00 sound which rather quickly is becoming synonymous with clinical perfection in a way that even Dondald Fagen would probably object to.

There's nothing inherently wrong in trying to make something sound as good as possible but leave a little human life in there......
Old 17th December 2010
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheebs Goat View Post
Everybody who trots out this argument always leaves off the third and best choice: An emotional performance that you don't correct.

If the choices are artificial correction, no emotion, or a note that's a bit off, I'll take the note that's a bit off every time.
Old 17th December 2010
  #40
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AudioWonderland's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by j-uk View Post

There's nothing inherently wrong in trying to make something sound as good as possible but leave a little human life in there......
That's pretty much an ether / or proposition though.
Old 17th December 2010
  #41
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AudioWonderland's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by j-uk View Post
They didn't mind because they were never lead to believe there was anything wrong with the performances.
People are in general pretty attuned to the music they listen to but they are listening to the whole picture rather then fragmented pieces of it.
Play someone a 60s tune and they'll accept it for what it is. Play them something that uses retro techniques and sounds and they'll identify it as having a 60s sound.
The overuse of AT and all it's incarnation is creating a 00 sound which rather quickly is becoming synonymous with clinical perfection in a way that even Dondald Fagen would probably object to.

There's nothing inherently wrong in trying to make something sound as good as possible but leave a little human life in there......

Have you heard the "critics" singing along on to the ipod the bus? They wouldn't know a bum note if it kicked them in the balls. I"ts got a good beat and I can dance to" it is about as critical as the analysis gets
Old 17th December 2010
  #42
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meh, its a great tool.
Old 17th December 2010
  #43
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j-uk's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AudioWonderland View Post
That's pretty much an ether / or proposition though.
Why? If I track a vocal 5 times and then comp it together I do it to achieve a better result than the singer could reach on their own.
I don't have to choose to one or the other but I also don't have to comp it down to syllables.
Old 17th December 2010
  #44
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j-uk's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AudioWonderland View Post
Have you heard the "critics" singing along on to the ipod the bus? They wouldn't know a bum note if it kicked them in the balls. I"ts got a good beat and I can dance to" it is about as critical as the analysis gets
I sing along to stuff all the time and I'm normally pretty out pitch wise. Doesn't mean I don't know the difference between a sharp and a flat.
I try to not underestimate the "critics" just because they might not as attuned as a working musician.
Old 17th December 2010
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by j-uk View Post
Why? If I track a vocal 5 times and then comp it together I do it to achieve a better result than the singer could reach on their own.
I don't have to choose to one or the other but I also don't have to comp it down to syllables.
You said "sound as good as possible". That means leaving no stone unturned and no phrase untuned based on the mantra of the pop stuff I hear. That is not what you just described above.
Old 17th December 2010
  #46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheebs Goat View Post
As a transparent fix-it, it leads to boring vanilla vocals.
Or, as a way to fix one or two notes in an otherwise great take, it can be a very useful tool. If you've made a great take vanilla, you're not using it transparently IMO

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Hayat View Post
Sure - but they sang in key. If the Beatles were putting out those records today - would they use pitch correction? No - they wouldn't need it.
Man, people haven't stopped being able to sing. The Beatles were in key all right, but they weren't note perfect. They'd be tuned if they were doing modern pop/rock today. if they weren't, it wouldn't sound right with today's production. Ok, maybe that's exaggerating - they'd probably retake and get things better - but you couldn't drop the existing performances into a modern production and expect them to sound perfect - it'd sound out.

You're listening to this with what I call "dated ears" - the same way that whilst the records sounded great for the 60s, and pleasing today, you wouldn't be able to hand in a recording that sounded quite like that, and get it accepted by a record company.

Simple example - Amy Winehouse and the Motown/Stax records that inspired her sound. She's clearly got a massive retro influence, and some of the feel of those records - but compare the sound of say "valerie" to the supremes or something. Sonically it's totally different.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AudioWonderland View Post
I don't care if weekend warriors want to touch up their stuff. Why are major label releases from so called professional musicians using it?
Because that's what the labels and public want.
Old 17th December 2010
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AudioWonderland View Post
You said "sound as good as possible". That means leaving no stone unturned and no phrase untuned based on the mantra of the pop stuff I hear. That is not what you just described above.
Semantics......tomato, tomaeto....
I also said leave some life in there. If you equate "as good as possible" as turn it into a clinical lifeless mush then I feel for you.
If I record an acoustic guitar and the player happens to tap his foot during the performance I'll cut out at 40Hz the reduce the rumble but if I'm happy with the
take I'm not going to make him redo it just because of it.
Players make noises when they play that's part of the beauty.
Old 17th December 2010
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
Or, as a way to fix one or two notes in an otherwise great take, it can be a very useful tool. If you've made a great take vanilla, you're not using it transparently IMO



Man, people haven't stopped being able to sing. The Beatles were in key all right, but they weren't note perfect. They'd be tuned if they were doing modern pop/rock today. if they weren't, it wouldn't sound right with today's production. Ok, maybe that's exaggerating - they'd probably retake and get things better - but you couldn't drop the existing performances into a modern production and expect them to sound perfect - it'd sound out.

You're listening to this with what I call "dated ears" - the same way that whilst the records sounded great for the 60s, and pleasing today, you wouldn't be able to hand in a recording that sounded quite like that, and get it accepted by a record company.

Simple example - Amy Winehouse and the Motown/Stax records that inspired her sound. She's clearly got a massive retro influence, and some of the feel of those records - but compare the sound of say "valerie" to the supremes or something. Sonically it's totally different.



Because that's what the labels and public want.
Agree with all apart from
Quote:
public want.
I don't think they especially want it. I think they are however being conditioned into thinking that they should want it.
Old 17th December 2010
  #49
Gear Addict
I recorded my step daughter (17) the other day and my wife commented on how much she liked the 'trills' that she did. She has listened to so much auto tuned material that she now sings like that! It sounds exactly like I auto tuned her but I didn't. How weird is that?

Dan
Old 17th December 2010
  #50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Hayat View Post
Sure - but they sang in key. If the Beatles were putting out those records today - would they use pitch correction? No - they wouldn't need it.
Cheers.
They may use it occasionally to fix a bum backing vocal here and there. Why not?
Old 17th December 2010
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by j-uk View Post
In true GS style people stop reading the OP and only refer to the comments.
I am not saying don't use AT, simply leave some life in the performance and don't fix every little thing.....
It's called conversation. Also you contradict yourself by saying it's a good tool to use occasionally but your title is "Screw auto tune" and suggest it shouldn't be used at all. Perhaps you mean to say "Stop abusing Autotune"?
Old 17th December 2010
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heimel View Post
It's called conversation. Also you contradict yourself by saying it's a good tool to use occasionally but your title is "Screw auto tune" and suggest it shouldn't be used at all. Perhaps you mean to say "Stop abusing Autotune"?
That's what the quoting feature is for and I apologies but I was being just a tad sarcastic.
Yes "Stop abusing Autotune" would perhaps be a more accurate title but alas not as inflammable in tone and less likely to be clicked on.
If you intend to disregard my argument based on the title being "Screw" but as you so rightly point out "but not entirely" then that is of course your prerogative.
Old 17th December 2010
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by j-uk View Post
That's what the quoting feature is for and I apologies but I was being just a tad sarcastic.
Yes "Stop abusing Autotune" would perhaps be a more accurate title but alas not as inflammable in tone and less likely to be clicked on.
If you intend to disregard my argument based on the title being "Screw" but as you so rightly point out "but not entirely" then that is of course your prerogative.
I'm pretty sure we agree and I didn't take any offense, just having a fun conversation.
Old 17th December 2010
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heimel View Post
I'm pretty sure we agree and I didn't take any offense, just having a fun conversation.
Me too heh
Old 17th December 2010
  #55
gentlemen, keep in mind that with rare exception, we are not in the business of documenting a performance, we are in the business of creating an illusion.
Old 17th December 2010
  #56
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Unclenny's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by shobud View Post
I recorded my step daughter (17) the other day and my wife commented on how much she liked the 'trills' that she did. She has listened to so much auto tuned material that she now sings like that! It sounds exactly like I auto tuned her but I didn't. How weird is that?

Dan
I see this as a very worrisome development as a possible direction in the continued course of human evolution.
Old 17th December 2010
  #57
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Auto-Tune is only good for the news these days
Old 17th December 2010
  #58
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vernier's Avatar
Autotune comes in handy for singers that aren't so great.
.
.
Old 17th December 2010
  #59
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AudioWonderland's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post



Because that's what the labels and public want.
Labels maybe. No one has shown any real evidence that demonstrates its what the public wants though. They public gets to choose between tuned and tuned. Sales is not evidence.
Old 17th December 2010
  #60
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Unclenny's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Musiclab View Post
gentlemen, keep in mind that with rare exception, we are not in the business of documenting a performance, we are in the business of creating an illusion.
This is a very interesting observation.

I would rather hope, however, that we are still in the business of melding those two aspects into a wonderful experience for our listeners.
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