The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
What's the future for large format studios? Effects Pedals, Units & Accessories
Old 20th December 2010
  #91
Lives for gear
 
bassjam's Avatar
 

Have you forgot about computer game music? Game companies are paying bands to re-record there songs for games!
Old 20th December 2010
  #92
Gear Maniac
I posted earlier but had an interesting conversation last night, and a bit of an epiphany if you will.

After the initial - "Oh wow look at how much you can do for $3,000 at home with a computer" I was a little let down by the sound quality I was getting. So I upgraded this and that, next thing I know its $100,000 later and I am quite happy with the sounds I am getting compared to my friends with home studios,(in fact it is night and day). But when I am brutally honest with myself, the drum sounds the engineer at at Criteria 20 years ago, or NRG or Cherokee in LA have gotten for me when I did a couple recordings there destroy what I am doing now. This is obviously because of the amazing tracking rooms, my four car garage although very large for a project studio, is nowhere near the league of the big boys.

So, I have to ask myself " would I have spent $100,000 + in studio time in the last ten years?"

The answer is no. I make most of my money off my gear playing bass tracks via the internet, or someone shows up with their hard drive and I lay some bass down.

I could do that with a real modest set up.

The big studios need to start convincing guys like me that it is actually cost effective to go to them to record. I can produce a band at my place and get major label quality sounds, and I don't have to pay a studio, its all for me! After the power bill its all profit, that is until I start subtracting the big money I have spent on gear over the last couple years.

I would be ahead of the game financially if I just recorded somewhere else and got a smaller cut of the pie. So would alot of the indie bands who did their own records, and didnt have to pay a studio. It probably would have served them better if they didnt spend that 10 grand on gear and spent it on their record instead.

I am a big fan of "real" studios but worry that it may be too late for the big studios to convince everyone about these things, the bar has simply been lowered too far. There are no more bands spending $250,000 on their records. And there are too many salesmen at guitar center convincing kids there records will sound as good as old Led Zepplin records if they buy an Mbox and a couple chinese mics.

Its just like television - who needs to pay for a sound stage and actors when you can get a couple handy cams and some wanna be's and do a reality show. Its really the same as some loops and pitch correction are to music production.
Old 20th December 2010
  #93
Quote:
Originally Posted by mintytowel View Post

The big studios need to start convincing guys like me that it is actually cost effective to go to them to record.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mintytowel View Post
I am a big fan of "real" studios but worry that it may be too late for the big studios to convince everyone about these things, the bar has simply been lowered too far.
Not really, they just have to continue putting out a difference in sound that you just can't get out of the home. The really good studios still do this. But its up to the client to determine if the difference is worth it enough to pay for.

I think Slipp can attest to this, that lately even though the DAW game in town has had a solid foot hold for a while, lately i am starting to see the tide change. Especially in the clients who can still afford to pay for quality. The old "guard" as i call them, people(executive and music producers,composers and industry songwriters, A&R's, talent) who up to the year 2000 were serious movers and shakers in the major label biz, that all have decked out and elaborate home studios in this decade but all yearn for that "Big studio sound". Not to mention having the hassle of doing everything themselves and also having to entertain large industry entourages in their homes is not an attractive proposition.

These are the clients to really zone in because they still have a foot hold in the major labels, but current existence is as an independent entity. They still have some money and a known name. The hard part is though they are your toughest critics because they've already been impressed in the past with the "best" and they think they have everything already needed since this what they hear or read on forums like this one.

But i can tell you once you hook them in, you are in. And the great thing is the people they recommend you to are other people of importance so it really feeds on itself. I think to focus on the "riff raff" as i call it, people still looking to do demos or people looking to cut a record at the cheapest price possible can be left to the million and one DAW studios out there. Let them fight it out and make almost nothing when its said and done. Because they will cut their own throats just to be able to afford to pay off the latest and greatest compressor or mic preamp. The big studios just need to find a way and stand their ground on quality. Even if it comes as "snobby" in the end it will be worth it, because people will know where you stand and that is you will always go to the greatest lengths to make sure people have the very best at your place. And when they pay they know they are getting it.
Old 20th December 2010
  #94
Lives for gear
 
bassjam's Avatar
 

So what would you all say would be a typical rate for a 500sqft LFAC mix room with more rack gear than you can imagine?
Old 20th December 2010
  #95
Lives for gear
 
bassjam's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by thethrillfactor View Post
Not really, they just have to continue putting out a difference in sound that you just can't get out of the home. The really good studios still do this. But its up to the client to determine if the difference is worth it enough to pay for.

I think Slipp can attest to this, that lately even though the DAW game in town has had a solid foot hold for a while, lately i am starting to see the tide change. Especially in the clients who can still afford to pay for quality. The old "guard" as i call them, people(executive and music producers,composers and industry songwriters, A&R's, talent) who up to the year 2000 were serious movers and shakers in the major label biz, that all have decked out and elaborate home studios in this decade but all yearn for that "Big studio sound". Not to mention having the hassle of doing everything themselves and also having to entertain large industry entourages in their homes is not an attractive proposition.

These are the clients to really zone in because they still have a foot hold in the major labels, but current existence is as an independent entity. They still have some money and a known name. The hard part is though they are your toughest critics because they've already been impressed in the past with the "best" and they think they have everything already needed since this what they hear or read on forums like this one.

But i can tell you once you hook them in, you are in. And the great thing is the people they recommend you to are other people of importance so it really feeds on itself. I think to focus on the "riff raff" as i call it, people still looking to do demos or people looking to cut a record at the cheapest price possible can be left to the million and one DAW studios out there. Let them fight it out and make almost nothing when its said and done. Because they will cut their own throats just to be able to afford to pay off the latest and greatest compressor or mic preamp. The big studios just need to find a way and stand their ground on quality. Even if it comes as "snobby" in the end it will be worth it, because people will know where you stand and that is you will always go to the greatest lengths to make sure people have the very best at your place. And when they pay they know they are getting it.
Never has there been a truer word spoken!

Old 20th December 2010
  #96
Quote:
Originally Posted by bassjam View Post
So what would you all say would be a typical rate for a 500sqft LFAC mix room with more rack gear than you can imagine?
Is that 500 or 5000 SQ ft?

And honestly for me rack gear means absolutely nada. Because you will never have specific things that i personally would need but currently own. But studios should never be equipped just to please outside freelance engineers. Its a quick way to go broke in this business. We all saw large studios try to do this in the 90's and they've all have been pretty much shut down now.

And these are studios where major records were mixed.
Old 20th December 2010
  #97
Motown legend
 
Bob Olhsson's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by thethrillfactor View Post
...The big studios just need to find a way and stand their ground on quality. Even if it comes as "snobby" in the end it will be worth it, because people will know where you stand and that is you will always go to the greatest lengths to make sure people have the very best at your place...
I've always felt that one of the most important things a great studio brings to a project is simply that there are no excuses for mediocre performance.
Old 20th December 2010
  #98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson View Post
I've always felt that one of the most important things a great studio brings to a project is simply that there are no excuses for mediocre performance.
Exactly.thumbsup

Its why George Massenburg says he will still record at a major studio. He says when an artist he is working with walks into a studio and sees Gold all over the place they'll know that not only were great recordings made there, but they have no excuses themselves not to follow suit.

I know people love the idea of not having pressure or watching the clock at home, but there is something to be said for having pressure in the studio. Believe it or not some people just do better when their behinds are on the griddle. And they need that extra something to focus and deliver.

Not to mention one thing which is always over looked in these discussions, is the people you will meet(networking) in between sessions just hanging out in the lounges or dropping by visiting someone who is recording currently. I mean really big names(some of these are probably your idols). This is something that will never happen at a home studio. You never know if that person you met in the lounge will be your next big break into the next great project.
Old 20th December 2010
  #99
Motown legend
 
Bob Olhsson's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by thethrillfactor View Post
...some people just do better when their behinds are on the griddle. And they need that extra something to focus and deliver...
I think most of us do better when we have some kind of an occasion to rise to.
Old 20th December 2010
  #100
Lives for gear
 
tvsky's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by mowmow View Post
I heard someone says there are no future for music.
Lots of recording studios are turning to film studios because film industry still have big budget.

I think large studios future depend on where the music industry is heading.
what will the film studios budget be when 90% of their revenue is lost to piracy though ? they are the next step down the mass digital piracy chain
Old 20th December 2010
  #101
Lives for gear
 
The MPCist's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by thethrillfactor View Post
....Not to mention having the hassle of doing everything themselves and also having to entertain large industry entourages in their homes is not an attractive proposition.
This is very true and this is why I'm still using sound motels for recording label artists....
Old 20th December 2010
  #102
Gear Guru
 
Sounds Great's Avatar
 

Music made in expensive studios with high priced people just sounds more expensive. Quality is never cheap.

I think the future for large format studios, other than the other media uses as mentioned, really will depend on people's interest in paying for better fidelity. I have hope that they will, especially as vinyl seems to be catching on again and people do hear the difference.

With all the other pressures on us, I don't think it is inconceivable that people could once again discover getting away from it all and listening to a good record and reading the liner notes, like reading a good book.

The more this happens, the more the quality of the recording and expertise of the production will matter, people can hear it. Listening as background noise on an Ipod, not so much.
Old 20th December 2010
  #103
Harmless Wacko
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by thethrillfactor View Post
Is that 500 or 5000 SQ ft?
I think he's talking about control room size, thrill.

Best,

Slippy
Old 20th December 2010
  #104
Quote:
Originally Posted by slipperman View Post
I think he's talking about control room size, thrill.

Best,

Slippy
I kinda figured, but 500 sq ft is still a little small(not a knock on you bass jam because my control is just a little smaller than this)for some of the really large studio facilities.

Sometimes you need huge control rooms when a ton of people are stopping by(1000sq ft.) and u have to entertain all of their friends.
Old 20th December 2010
  #105
Gear Maniac
 

Any idiot can make a studio in his/her garage. It takes knowledge and experience to know that an actual professional studio cannot survive in a garage space. It needs professional acoustics, built from the ground up. I believe it is still going to survive no matter what happens. Hell, it might clearly separate the amateurs vs the pros in the future, since there will be limited studios with that kind of flexibility. Real musicians will always find that the pros know best. The amateurs will try to make it in a $25 /hr studio, but in reality, they will fail in the end. Trust me (if there are any aspiring musicians out there) a $400+ /hr professional studio is very much worth it. Keep the professional, large-format studios alive ladies and gentleman!
Old 20th December 2010
  #106
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tvsky View Post
what will the film studios budget be when 90% of their revenue is lost to piracy though ? they are the next step down the mass digital piracy chain
It's a problem.

I think that the piracy issue will be dealt with sooner rather than later. Too much is being lost now, and it isn't just a bunch of hippies in the music business complaining anymore. The music lobby was simply too puny to have any real influence. We're already seeing some movement on the issue.
Old 20th December 2010
  #107
Gear Addict
 
Fenris's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by carllock View Post
From a sound perspective that is that elusive "10%" that seems to be missing or hard to achieve ITB/personal studio. Personally i am going back and adding a Midas VeniceF or Zed or a Mackie 1640i.
Ask yourself if you would accept a drummer whose tempo is 10% off, or a mix bus that had 10% distortion. A difference of 10% is quite sufficient to ruin the sound.

Quote:
Now with these virtual guitar VSTi's (Ministry of Rock, etc), Amp Sims, and Drum Vsti's becoming more realistic (at least to the Mp3 generation)....it is very hard for me as an independent producer going to big studiosanymore. Why?, my front in chains are equal or far superior to any big studio I've ever been to. I have about 125 vst delays alone! (sure most suck but all unique). I have over 600 VSTi synthesizers!(sure most suck but all unique). Not to date myself as a dinosaur but I was a beta tester when VST protocol came out, been collecting stuff (VST's) for a while.
You know, maybe a VSTi CAN sound just as good as a ham-handed guitar player through a Dual Rectum Fryer with Chinese tubes, or a baboon drummer on a cheap drum kit who has to be sample-replaced to death, or a hack keyboardist with poor wrist control playing some horribly dated synth like a DX7. Since I have great amps and drums to compare them to, I'm not as impressed.

The line about 125 VST delays and 600 VSTi synthesizers is priceless. Says it all, really. I'll stick with my 2 delays and 1 upright piano.
Old 20th December 2010
  #108
Gear Addict
 
Fenris's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by anteupaudio View Post
I hear what you're saying about buying a console with everything built in and, yeah, for a lot of people I think that makes a lot of sense. However, just because you have a nice console with lots of preamps, eqs, and compressors built in doesn't mean they're the right flavor for everything. Personally, I don't work on just one type of music. It only stands to reason that the gear used to record a live jazz session might not also be the preferred gear for a rock band or metal band.
I recalibrate the tape machine for different formulations depending on the musical style. Perhaps the reason for multiple preamp flavors is to compensate for digital only having one sound.

The old analog method worked as a system; if you change one component, you have to compensate for it elsewhere in the chain. When Abbey Road switched from tube consoles to transistor consoles, the engineers were very unhappy with the change until they learned how to compensate for it. Now those hated transistor decks are considered "classic," ho-ho.

Quote:
Very cool! Are these online anywhere? I'd like to check them out. There's another studio in town here doing a similar thing right now and I think it's an awesome idea. I have seen (just over the last 6-8 months even) a resurgence of bands actually wanting to get in a room and play music TOGETHER again. This is probably the most promising sign of life I've seen in a long time! I hope it lasts...
"Live in Studio A" is streamed on kdvs.org every Thursday night at 11 pm Pacific. The archive isn't working, the webmaster has to fix it.
Old 20th December 2010
  #109
Motown legend
 
Bob Olhsson's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sounds Great View Post
Music made in expensive studios with high priced people just sounds more expensive. ..
Not necessarily however the bottom-line is always the quality of the performance and not the "sound." As I posted above, having no excuses for not rising to the occasion and giving an exceptional performance often makes a huge difference as can the effect of exceptional sound quality on the performers.

Sometimes it's easy to forget that recording is an interactive process.
Old 20th December 2010
  #110
Lives for gear
 
Knox's Avatar
 

yea . . we were doing a record at Record Plant . . . I was talking to a friend out in the hall when I hear a familiar voice . . John Lennon is talking to us. I had seen John around NYC a few times, out on the streets, even in Mannys . . . I also did Beatlemania (the show). But I have to admit knowing that Lennon was working on his record in the studio next to us . . . steps you up a few (1,000) notches. A lot different then working in your bedroom / basement, in your robe, eating a muffin by your self . . . staring at a computer monitor. Personally, I could never even feel I was making a record without a large console in front of me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thethrillfactor View Post
Its why George Massenburg says he will still record at a major studio. He says when an artist he is working with walks into a studio and sees Gold all over the place they'll know that not only were great recordings made there, but they have no excuses themselves not to follow suit.
Old 20th December 2010
  #111
Quote:
Originally Posted by bassjam View Post
Have you forgot about computer game music? Game companies are paying bands to re-record there songs for games!
I don't know about bands re-recording their songs (why not just license the original? and if you're going to get a cover of a song, why not pay someone cheaper? most tribute bands sound more like the records of the band they're impersonating than the band do themselves!) but there's certainly loads of computer games recording full orchestras for soundtracks. I think it's possibly a bigger earner for Abbey Road and the ilk than "straight" classical is.
Old 20th December 2010
  #112
Quote:
Originally Posted by lrichner View Post
Any idiot can make a studio in his/her garage. It takes knowledge and experience to know that an actual professional studio cannot survive in a garage space. It needs professional acoustics, built from the ground up. I believe it is still going to survive no matter what happens. Hell, it might clearly separate the amateurs vs the pros in the future, since there will be limited studios with that kind of flexibility. Real musicians will always find that the pros know best. The amateurs will try to make it in a $25 /hr studio, but in reality, they will fail in the end. Trust me (if there are any aspiring musicians out there) a $400+ /hr professional studio is very much worth it. Keep the professional, large-format studios alive ladies and gentleman!
I'm confused on how this applies to electronic music? How come someone needs to pay $400+ /hr for that?
Old 20th December 2010
  #113
Quote:
Originally Posted by mista min View Post
I'm confused on how this applies to electronic music? How come someone needs to pay $400+ /hr for that?
Don't know about $400/hr, but decent monitoring requires a proper build, and even electronic music benefits from that.

Don't know why you're specifically talking electronic music though - I think the rest of us are talking bands.
Old 20th December 2010
  #114
Lives for gear
 
bassjam's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
I don't know about bands re-recording their songs (why not just license the original? and if you're going to get a cover of a song, why not pay someone cheaper? most tribute bands sound more like the records of the band they're impersonating than the band do themselves!) but there's certainly loads of computer games recording full orchestras for soundtracks. I think it's possibly a bigger earner for Abbey Road and the ilk than "straight" classical is.
Because the games creator wants the propper band! I know that feeder did a lot of re-recording for a game. Yes a lot of the abbey road work is computer games. Its an area that we are going to specialise in at our place, working with the Liverpool Philharmonic.
Old 21st December 2010
  #115
Gear Guru
 
Sounds Great's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson View Post
Not necessarily however the bottom-line is always the quality of the performance and not the "sound." As I posted above, having no excuses for not rising to the occasion and giving an exceptional performance often makes a huge difference as can the effect of exceptional sound quality on the performers.

Sometimes it's easy to forget that recording is an interactive process.
I agree it is very interactive. And of course the song and performance is most important, but people on the production end with the best of equipment and rooms will make that performance sound that much better.
Old 21st December 2010
  #116
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dismaus82 View Post
I don't know where this concept started that even if someone has a significant investment in a studio that just happens to be located in their home, it's still not considered as professional as a studio that has cheaper gear and less money into it BUT rents a commercial space. ?!?!
In the US, in most residential areas, YOU CAN NOT run a professional business. Zoning laws. Does not matter how nice it is. If you are seeing paying customers on a daily basis (IE, a professional), you must be in an appropriate zone in your local community. If you are not, you may be shut down if your neighbors get tired of the routine. Also, if your customers get mad at you, they can threaten to report you to the local zoning board as well. It never works long term, unless you only work with people you know well.
Old 21st December 2010
  #117
Lives for gear
 
Ernest Buckley's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by mintytowel View Post
I posted earlier but had an interesting conversation last night, and a bit of an epiphany if you will.

After the initial - "Oh wow look at how much you can do for $3,000 at home with a computer" I was a little let down by the sound quality I was getting. So I upgraded this and that, next thing I know its $100,000 later and I am quite happy with the sounds I am getting compared to my friends with home studios,(in fact it is night and day). But when I am brutally honest with myself, the drum sounds the engineer at at Criteria 20 years ago, or NRG or Cherokee in LA have gotten for me when I did a couple recordings there destroy what I am doing now. This is obviously because of the amazing tracking rooms, my four car garage although very large for a project studio, is nowhere near the league of the big boys.

So, I have to ask myself " would I have spent $100,000 + in studio time in the last ten years?"

The answer is no. I make most of my money off my gear playing bass tracks via the internet, or someone shows up with their hard drive and I lay some bass down.

I could do that with a real modest set up.

The big studios need to start convincing guys like me that it is actually cost effective to go to them to record. I can produce a band at my place and get major label quality sounds, and I don't have to pay a studio, its all for me! After the power bill its all profit, that is until I start subtracting the big money I have spent on gear over the last couple years.

I would be ahead of the game financially if I just recorded somewhere else and got a smaller cut of the pie. So would alot of the indie bands who did their own records, and didnt have to pay a studio. It probably would have served them better if they didnt spend that 10 grand on gear and spent it on their record instead.

I am a big fan of "real" studios but worry that it may be too late for the big studios to convince everyone about these things, the bar has simply been lowered too far. There are no more bands spending $250,000 on their records. And there are too many salesmen at guitar center convincing kids there records will sound as good as old Led Zepplin records if they buy an Mbox and a couple chinese mics.

Its just like television - who needs to pay for a sound stage and actors when you can get a couple handy cams and some wanna be's and do a reality show. Its really the same as some loops and pitch correction are to music production.
Just for the record, I think Led Zep records sound like crap. What makes those records awesome was the bands killer groove. They were all session players at one point or another weren`t day?

Theres a nostalgia for the sound of older records from the 50s-70s but honestly, I think records sounded best in the mid 90s, things were loud but still clear and punchy.

But aside from that, what I really wanted to mention is this: I think we have all been so programmed to close mic EVERYTHING, that is the reason for lack of depth in digital recordings. Several months ago, I had a song idea so I turned everything on and grabbed my 58 and just put parts down one after another. Listening back I was surprised by the character of this sketch.

Looking back, I think a lot of it had to do with the fact that I was not playing to the mic, I was simply sitting back and letting the mic capture my ideas so each track had its own space. I think today we have 24+ tracks on everything and all of those tracks are as close to the source as we can make them.... so everything has that "in yer face" sound to it which is nice and necessary at times but not all the time.

What I`m getting at is, as long as your room has a decent sound, you too can accomplish that sense of space. We are so programmed (theres that word again) to the sounds of "classic rooms", we think thats the end all be all. Times change, sounds change, the story remains the same...

IMO, what made those rooms classic was not the sound of them but rather the records that were made in them.

To get back OT, large format studios had and still do have their place just like they did in the 50s-80s but due to technology which has allowed the "every man" to define his or her self; those large format studios are now reserved for more communal endeavors or so it seems.

And lastly, you mention "The big studios need to start convincing guys like me that it is actually cost effective to go to them to record. I can produce a band at my place and get major label quality sounds..."

Thats the thing... big studios cannot afford to work with the little guy. Gregs business model only works because he specifically targets large budgets. Without them, his room is closing shop. Due to the high cost of living and real estate, it is no longer feasible to own and operate a big room while serving the little man.
Old 21st December 2010
  #118
Deleted User
Guest
They'll become popular again, for sure.

People forget that as much as many studios have closed, there are still an awful lot that never, and that make money. Many people thought when DAW's were becoming powerful that the need for a large console would go, but it hasn't.

It's not a novelty as such, but studio's will always be around as they can facilitate places that your bedroom can't. Or the Beatles fan would like to record in the same room that John, Paul, George and Ringo did.

They'll always be around.
Old 21st December 2010
  #119
Lives for gear
 
Sigma's Avatar
out of the 3 main LFC manufacturers [SSL, NEVE, SONY]

whose left making them? an emasculated NEVE?
Old 21st December 2010
  #120
Lives for gear
 
Ernest Buckley's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jampottt View Post
They'll become popular again, for sure.

People forget that as much as many studios have closed, there are still an awful lot that never, and that make money. Many people thought when DAW's were becoming powerful that the need for a large console would go, but it hasn't.

It's not a novelty as such, but studio's will always be around as they can facilitate places that your bedroom can't. Or the Beatles fan would like to record in the same room that John, Paul, George and Ringo did.

They'll always be around.
Really?

Isn`t Abbey Road closing up shop?

The Hit Factory closed how many of its rooms?

If these places cannot stay open, how can you possibly post what you did?
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Similar Threads
Thread
Thread Starter / Forum
Replies
Terry McInturff / So much gear, so little time
60
VegasMusician / High end
8
mattafact / Gearslutz Secondhand Gear Classifieds
8
Jose Mrochek / High end
7

Forum Jump
Forum Jump