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What's the future for large format studios? Effects Pedals, Units & Accessories
Old 18th December 2010
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sounds Great View Post
heh
heh
Old 18th December 2010
  #62
Harmless Wacko
 

Good on ya Greg!

I hope it continues for you bud.

Always nice to see a new ship leaving harbor with wind in her sails.

No matter her flag of origin nor cut of jib.

Best regards,

SM.

Last edited by Slipperman; 19th December 2010 at 03:02 PM.. Reason: Nooise reduction.
Old 19th December 2010
  #63
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*smile* . . I remember a time in NYC (in the 80s) when NYC studios / radio stations were throwing Pultecs in the trash (literally).

Quote:
Originally Posted by kats View Post
Hunch? I don't think some of these dough heads remember when you could buy u47's for $500 not too long ago. .
Old 19th December 2010
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knox View Post
*smile* . . I remember a time in NYC (in the 80s) when NYC studios / radio stations were throwing Pultecs in the trash (literally).
lol, i know a guy in toronto that picked up a u47 and 2x u67s from the CBC for 20 bucks each when they "upgraded" the recording facility in the early 80s. the mics were considered old and unusable.
Old 19th December 2010
  #65
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Ernest Buckley's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Curtis View Post
I was going to pass on this thread, as it seemed to be going in the direction that typifies GS (presumptive, self-catering, grandstanding). But I think that the posts have been, for the most part, insightful and on topic. So I'm going to jump into the waters with my own presumptive, self-catering, grandstanding post, if only to provide a different viewpoint:

I hate to piss on the parade, but I offer up my large format, large-room studio as a counter to the prevailing notion that this is a poor business model. And to further shock and annoy, I'll let you know that the doors have been open for only 4 months, after a 4-year build out from scratch. TheBridgeRecordingBuildPage

So, after gambling millions of dollars to open a contrarian outpost of recording, what is the result? Our client list, after 4 months, includes: Fox Television's "The Simpsons," (episode aired Dec. 4th), NBC's "The Event" (every episode recorded here), ABC's "No Ordinary Family," (pilot episode) huge upcoming series "The Cape," some Disney theme-park mixes, film mixes, TV mixes, independent film scores, big bands, latin bands, jazz bands, solo piano, chamber music groups, tuba ensembles, The Salvation Army Band, tons more, and we currently have a big film music mix in here that will take us into the new year.

Here's a pic I took just 5 minutes ago:



.

By completely ignoring the work that can be done by a guy in a bedroom (work that nobody is willing to actually go out and buy anymore, btw), and instead focusing like a laser on the one area of the industry that has *some* budget, I was able to build AND BOOK a successful large-format recording studio in the year 2010.

My biggest problem right now is to find more parking for the 70 clients that show up for some of these gigs.

All the best,

Greg

.
Congrats on your success. Again, you are recording music for film and TV which is what I originally wrote in my first post in this thread. Thats where the money is. Guys looking to open and stay open recording rock bands... I don`t think they`ll meet with the same success as you. With all that said, I`m sure you have partners and they all had the funds/$$$ and connections (more importantly) to back up this large project.

Either way, you are to be congratulated.
Old 19th December 2010
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sound_music View Post
lol, i know a guy in toronto that picked up a u47 and 2x u67s from the CBC for 20 bucks each when they "upgraded" the recording facility in the early 80s. the mics were considered old and unusable.
heh yeah that was during the "inevitability of the death of valve gear" period. My partner picked up some stuff from the CBC as well. Radio Recorders did the same thing, we had a couple of their 47's as well.


Some of these consoles built in the 80's and 90's are a marvel if you think about it, the likes I doubt we'll ever see again. Look at some of these 4k's going for 50-75k. Through hole modular construction, compressors on every channel, TR, automation... Hilarious, this **** is worth a million dollars! I can do more on one of those in a quarter of the time than ITB using PT, and sound good too

I know I'm repeating myself, but geez guys - buy something, anything - your going to regret it if you don't. If your in this business you better have faith in the future or WTF are you doing here? If the future feels good to you, act accordingly.
Old 19th December 2010
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anteupaudio View Post
Hi,

Thanks for your well put response! I'm curious as to exactly what plugs you're using. If you're talking about the bombfactory stuff, I totally agree. Have you checked out the UA stuff or the WAVES CLA stuff though?

Also... This may be important... When I track, I use a lot of pretty high end stuff. Stuff I plan to keep even if I *do* ultimately decide to sell one or both of my large frame consoles.

I grew up cutting to tape so I'm used to (and prefer to) commit as much as possible during the recording process (even if I'm tracking to ProTools instead of tape). I EQ, compress, etc. on the way in. I'm not a big fan of "save all of the decisions until later and fix it in the mix".

I suppose if I weren't tracking this way, I may have a more difficult time getting the results I'm after. But, as it stands, the "best of both worlds" approach is working out well for me, personally (and to my surprise). Keep in mind that I've been mixing this way for the past several months BY CHOICE. My entire studio is up and running and I can go mix on an SSL or a Neve whenever I want to. Nobody could possibly be more surprised than I am that I'm comfortable working this way.

I also have a plate, a couple echoplex's, a Lexicon 480, and some other cool stuff. I'm thinking about picking up even more "oddball" stuff that not everyone has (or they don't make a decent plugin version of).
OK, that makes more sense. Your method is very, very far from mixing ITB and I hope that other GS'ers will not take your post as an endorsement of mixing ITB.

No, I wasn't using the Bomb Factory plugs. It was UA and a few Waves plugs. I liked them quite a lot at the time.

My question is, why do DAW users spend thousands of dollars on a control surface with motorized faders, a high-end summing box, and a rack of vintage preamps, when for the same money they could buy a good console that has all those things built-in?

I think that DAW technology has a way of seducing people with its almost unlimited editing, manipulation, and automation capabilities, and they don't consider what the DAW is costing them in the long run, or ask themselves whether all these capabilities actually lead to a better product.

Personally, I like having the ability to tell the clients that we CAN'T do instantaneous total recall, only minor level adjustments via the "stem" method, unless they pay extra. It gets people focused and speeds up the workflow. None of this silliness where bands are re-doing vocal parts right up through the mastering stage.

KDVS hosts live in the studio performances on a weekly basis, 1 hour for setup and soundcheck, mixed live to stereo, and in many respects the result is more pleasing than multi-track recordings of the same bands done in the same studio.
Old 19th December 2010
  #68
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Sigma's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenris View Post
OK, that makes more sense. Your method is very, very far from mixing ITB and I hope that other GS'ers will not take your post as an endorsement of mixing ITB.

No, I wasn't using the Bomb Factory plugs. It was UA and a few Waves plugs. I liked them quite a lot at the time.

My question is, why do DAW users spend thousands of dollars on a control surface with motorized faders, a high-end summing box, and a rack of vintage preamps, when for the same money they could buy a good console that has all those things built-in?

I think that DAW technology has a way of seducing people with its almost unlimited editing, manipulation, and automation capabilities, and they don't consider what the DAW is costing them in the long run, or ask themselves whether all these capabilities actually lead to a better product.

Personally, I like having the ability to tell the clients that we CAN'T do instantaneous total recall, only minor level adjustments via the "stem" method, unless they pay extra. It gets people focused and speeds up the workflow. None of this silliness where bands are re-doing vocal parts right up through the mastering stage.

KDVS hosts live in the studio performances on a weekly basis, 1 hour for setup and soundcheck, mixed live to stereo, and in many respects the result is more pleasing than multi-track recordings of the same bands done in the same studio.
because after being around large frame consoles since 1968 . it 's nice to have various different preamps and eq's and not be locked into a consoles...because sliding back and forth on a 72 input console and eqing off the sweet spot was a pain

and because who wants to pay for a tech for a console today?

there is no need for an internal buss acn so why pay for al that hardware in a console too?

all i need is 8 scrolling faders..and to sit in one place
Old 19th December 2010
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sigma View Post
...because sliding back and forth on a 72 input console and eqing off the sweet spot was a pain

and because who wants to pay for a tech for a console today?

there is no need for an internal buss acn so why pay for al that hardware in a console too?

all i need is 8 scrolling faders..and to sit in one place
i think all that's true from a certain perspective, and has alot to do with the growing popularity of the small format consoles we're seeing today... the aws, the 5088, the 1608, zen, all the controller and summing solutions, etc etc. there is advantage and convenience in the small packages...
Old 19th December 2010
  #70
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My story:

I closed down three little studios I had at 3 different locations. Went 100% ITB. Currently I stem out to a 8 channel analog sum boxes. These closed studios all had small frame main boards (Neve, SSL, Soundcraft).

When things (a mix) got big or an artist I was working with needed a commercial facility I us to rent big studios everywhere.

From a sound perspective that is that elusive "10%" that seems to be missing or hard to achieve ITB/personal studio. Personally i am going back and adding a Midas VeniceF or Zed or a Mackie 1640i.

There are a lot of good sounding new mixer options that make it hard to pass up....with the advantage of fewer of the maintenance or power consumption issues of traditional big boards.

So even though I was "private studio" my whole life, what is happening to me has to relate to big studios.

The huge thing for me was to get rid of synths and keyboards (dozens of em) for some reason. The mixing boards I knew there were smaller solutions coming (Summing, X Series, etc) that sounded good so I let them go in peace. But with synths at first I was very skeptical...But now I am happy 100% with VSTi's.

Now with these virtual guitar VSTi's (Ministry of Rock, etc), Amp Sims, and Drum Vsti's becoming more realistic (at least to the Mp3 generation)....it is very hard for me as an independent producer going to big studios anymore. Why?, my front in chains are equal or far superior to any big studio I've ever been to. I have about 125 vst delays alone! (sure most suck but all unique). I have over 600 VSTi synthesizers!(sure most suck but all unique). Not to date myself as a dinosaur but I was a beta tester when VST protocol came out, been collecting stuff (VST's) for a while.

I spend about a stack or two per month on new technology and 65%-75% probably is digital/software. The balance analog.

The punchline is that indy guys like me love big studios, but I don't have/ can't find a need anymore...not even to monitor on mains....I even have those now. The mixing board use to be the center of any studio commercial or private, now it is second fiddle to the microchip.

However the huge commercial facilities must go on in big markets.
Old 19th December 2010
  #71
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Ernest Buckley's Avatar
Hey Slipperman,

Thanks for deleting your post! I received it in an email anyways. dfegad

Instead of jumping down someones throat, how about giving Greg the chance to respond?
Old 19th December 2010
  #72
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Because what you said showed zero class and I doubt Greg would respond to something so rude. What a presumptuous piece of work you are. tutt
Old 19th December 2010
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kats View Post
Because what you said showed zero class and I doubt Greg would respond to something so rude. What a presumptuous piece of work you are. tutt
Hey, if I`m wrong, Greg can correct me and I will apologize.

I would love to hear a success story from a guy starting out with nothing but raw talent and being able to do something like this. However...

Most large format studios surviving today are getting by due to TV/Film work.

Most large format studios starting out today have loads of funding from investors who also have loads of connections in the biz.

It is very unlikely that this sort of success was met on raw talent alone. Its nothing to be ashamed about.

We should be clear about what is truly the cause of this success and not mislead people. Call me what you want but hopefully Greg will show up and clarify.
Old 19th December 2010
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernest Buckley View Post

We should be clear about what is truly the cause of this success and not mislead people. Call me what you want but hopefully Greg will show up and clarify.
The "cause". My God man...

Whether you got a bank loan, heavy leases, or investors to start up a business (like 99% of all businesses) is not a measure of success. It's your bottom line that counts.

It's a cop out to blame failure on a lack of connections, financial credit, or the inability to sell a plausible business plan. You make your own bed in that regard.
Old 19th December 2010
  #75
Harmless Wacko
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernest Buckley View Post
Hey Slipperman,

Thanks for deleting your post! I received it in an email anyways. dfegad

Instead of jumping down someones throat, how about giving Greg the chance to respond?
Hey.

You guys have fun with it.

In the end: I can't REALLY defend the "Sound Hotel" stylee LFAC guys. I don't have enough intersection with that business in the fabric of my experience to do it with a straight face or clear conscience.

I DO have some very good buds still actively engaged, and seemingly holding their head above water, in that racket and I sure as heck WISH THEM WELL.

In the meantime, I sure CAN LMAO watching you GS "experts" circling the supposed corpse fighting for proximity of fist and pitchfork!!!

Better than the Yankees/Red Sox feud has been in decades!

It's been pretty funny so far!



SM.
Old 19th December 2010
  #76
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Ernest Buckley's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by kats View Post
The "cause". My God man...

Whether you got a bank loan, heavy leases, or investors to start up a business (like 99% of all businesses) is not a measure of success. It's your bottom line that counts.

It's a cop out to blame failure on a lack of connections, financial credit, or the inability to sell a plausible business plan. You make your own bed in that regard.
Several things need to be addressed here...

1. Yes, I want to know "the cause" of this success. It has nothing to do with trying to downplay the success of his business. I congratulated him already. I simply want to know how his brand new studio got the $$$ to be built and how it got this sort of major business. I am sure anyone who has the desire to own or operate a large format room wants to know Gregs "business model" or "the cause". His honest answer would clarify a lot of things for people who want to follow in his steps. Having a network of investors with connections also takes hard work so no one is trying to take anything away from him, I just want clarification.

2. Considering banks are not throwing $$$ around like they did 5 years ago, I think its pretty safe to say that Gregs studio came to be thanks to investors. Nothing wrong with that. Lots of businesses start this way.

3. Considering the clientele Greg mentioned, I can only assume he already had some connections with these TV networks already. Nothing wrong with that either.

However, I do think its wrong (and misleading) to post in this thread and say, "Hey, look at me and my studio, check out my clientele!" and then say nothing about how this success was possible when that is exactly the theme of this thread!

It seems to me that there are a handful of really pissy politically correct characters on here who do nothing but brown nose and confront me with "how dare you question anyones success?"

Its silly, no one was questioning Gregs success. We just want to know the method to his success. I would think that most would want to know.

And I mentioned this in my first post to Greg, his work is to be congratulated. Whether he did it on working his ass off + raw talent or with loads of investors with connections, both roads demand work and years of dedication.
Old 19th December 2010
  #77
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I can get you as much money as you want and introduce you to anyone you need to know. Do you think that means you will be successful? Not even close. It is all about the business plan and the execution of the plan.

The point is if he CAN PAY BACK the money to wherever he got it from and if he can compete against facilities that run a much lower overhead. In other words, does this model provide value to the customer.

If you really wanted to know the cause of his success, these are the questions you should be asking.

Why do customers use his facility instead of one that that is all ITB?

But basically your asking "Who did you blow to be successful".

The point is, if you have the resources and talent, is a studio based on a LFAC a viable concept in today's market. This is the question at hand.
Old 19th December 2010
  #78
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Ernest Buckley's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by kats View Post
I can get you as much money as you want and introduce you to anyone you need to know. Do you think that means you will be successful? Not even close. It is all about the business plan and the execution of the plan.

The point is if he CAN PAY BACK the money to wherever he got it from and if he can compete against facilities that run a much lower overhead. In other words, does this model provide value to the customer.

If you really wanted to know the cause of his success, these are the questions you should be asking.

Why do customers use his facility instead of one that that is all ITB?

But basically your asking "Who did you blow to be successful".

The point is, if you have the resources and talent, is a studio based on a LFAC a viable concept in today's market. This is the question at hand.
Its obvious if you check out Gregs other thread about this studio (which I just did) that he is addressing the issues of recording larger ensembles like orchestras. Clearly something in a different arena than the everyday ITB studio. This is a major league production here.

I`m not entertaining your responses any more, you clearly are misunderstanding my questions. I`ll just wait for Greg to respond.

Thanks,
EB
Old 20th December 2010
  #79
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Sorry, been busy with no time for forum lurking...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernest Buckley View Post
Congrats on your success. Again, you are recording music for film and TV which is what I originally wrote in my first post in this thread.
Yes, I know. You have a point. I had originally included your quote in my post, but I edited it out because I wasn't responding directly to it, so it would have only muddied up an already murky post. I apologize for not giving you props.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernest Buckley View Post
Thats where the money is. Guys looking to open and stay open recording rock bands... I don`t think they`ll meet with the same success as you.
100% agree. How could they with the incredible selection of rooms and great engineers that are out there right now? Like I said, I don't want to compete with the literally 100's of rock'n'roll studios in L.A. for $50/hr. What's the point in jumping into that pool?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernest Buckley View Post
With all that said, I`m sure you have partners and they all had the funds/$$$ and connections (more importantly) to back up this large project.

Either way, you are to be congratulated.
Yes, and No. Yes, I do have very good business partners in this project. And they are both on board 100%, and have both gone above and beyond what was expected. But, they have literally NO connections to the music industry, or the film/TV industry. Absolutely none.

The work that we have garnered came because I studied the market, saw a very tiny slice of the market with a need, and built the best studio that I could within a very tight budget to fulfill that need. Then I tapped my few connections to get the word out. The film scoring community is actually kind of small, and inbred, so word got around.

It was a very small target to hit: too small and it doesn't work, too big and it's too expensive to run, with a very elite clientele that does not suffer fools. Months of training and working out bugs before going online made our initial clients happy and comfortable, and got the word out that we are a serious business. We literally would have been dead in the water if we had screwed anything up in our first month of work. Now that we are online, it is a daily pursuit to stay on top of things, making sure the next gig goes perfectly. (that's the goal)

BTW. Being able to accommodate cross-media work does not limit, in any way, anything in the music recording world. Which is cool because we can record anything that we want to, but make our bread and butter as well. In fact, the music gigs are a relief from all of the short cues and high tension work environment.

And, it hasn't been easy. We are still working so hard to keep clients and get new ones. Building a solid reputation in this field is very difficult, and requires constant monitoring. Filling the calendar is more than a full-time job, and we have a great manager that does that for us. One wrong move and our reputation goes down the drain, which is nearly impossible to repair. The profit margin is laughable, and the headaches are profound. So, it is a very bad business model by any standard, but far better than a small, music-only studio. IMHO.

Greg

.
Old 20th December 2010
  #80
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As a guy with a moderately sized room and works with a small assortment of mics, (some of quality) and pres, I tend to only work on vanity projects, that is, projects I play or sing something on. It is more or less therapy for me, nothing more. But I just needed to chime in on this to agree killer musicians playing live is the way to go. I recorded a friend's R&B 3 piece band live off the floor (due to time constraints) with minimal micing, and the results were fantastic! It was utterly exhilarating to record this way! I hope to do it again some time, its something everyone should experience.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson View Post
I love how many people take it utterly for granted that music should be recorded one part at a time. By far the cheapest way to make a killer record is by recording killer musicians live. Assuming they are getting paid at least union wages, the cheapest way to do that is in a traditional recording studio.

Now that we're back to the singles market, we'll probably see a return to the older recording work-flow for purely economic reasons.
Old 20th December 2010
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenris View Post
OK, that makes more sense. Your method is very, very far from mixing ITB and I hope that other GS'ers will not take your post as an endorsement of mixing ITB.
I've never been able to get results that I'm truly happy with mixing JUST in the box. My rig now (with analog summing, Stereo buss comp, and EQ) works for me though and I like it a lot. I know people CAN mix completely ITB and get great results though. I think the last Black Keys record sounds pretty "analog" and the whole thing was mixed ITB so, apparently, it can be done.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenris View Post
My question is, why do DAW users spend thousands of dollars on a control surface with motorized faders, a high-end summing box, and a rack of vintage preamps, when for the same money they could buy a good console that has all those things built-in?
I obviously can't speak for all DAW users but... I don't have a control surface. I may at some point in the future but they've always seemed really overpriced for what they offer so I've stayed clear. If I do buy one, it will pretty much be for the faders. Everything else on control surfaces seems like more trouble than it's worth to me (although I know people who I really admire in respect who feel otherwise).

I hear what you're saying about buying a console with everything built in and, yeah, for a lot of people I think that makes a lot of sense. However, just because you have a nice console with lots of preamps, eqs, and compressors built in doesn't mean they're the right flavor for everything. Personally, I don't work on just one type of music. It only stands to reason that the gear used to record a live jazz session might not also be the preferred gear for a rock band or metal band. Case in point, when I'm tracking in my SSL room the actual SSL preamps are relegated to incidental things (a hat mic, a scratch vocal, etc.) I'm already using outboard pres, compressors on most things. Variety, different flavors (whatever you want to call it) is important to me and it's something I enjoy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenris View Post
I think that DAW technology has a way of seducing people with its almost unlimited editing, manipulation, and automation capabilities, and they don't consider what the DAW is costing them in the long run, or ask themselves whether all these capabilities actually lead to a better product.
I think this is true if the user allows it to be true. Just because the options are all there doesn't mean you have to use them all. Another way around this for me has been to track on tape whenever possible. Shutting the computer screens of is a very freeing experience. Not all bands/artists can work this way though.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenris View Post
KDVS hosts live in the studio performances on a weekly basis, 1 hour for setup and soundcheck, mixed live to stereo, and in many respects the result is more pleasing than multi-track recordings of the same bands done in the same studio.
Very cool! Are these online anywhere? I'd like to check them out. There's another studio in town here doing a similar thing right now and I think it's an awesome idea. I have seen (just over the last 6-8 months even) a resurgence of bands actually wanting to get in a room and play music TOGETHER again. This is probably the most promising sign of life I've seen in a long time! I hope it lasts...
Old 20th December 2010
  #82
Well, my take on this is a whole quasi-religious theory, so if that offends anyone, prepare to be offended.

I think all of us walk through life with one eye cast heavenward-- does Somebody Up There like us? Are They prepared to shift a few crucial levers for our benefit? The results of this surveying is generally quite mixed... only not in my case.

There was never any prayer, really, that I'd be able to climb the Jacob's ladder of real studio apprenticeship, like all my idols. I'm far too impulsive, sarcastic, headstrong and pitying of my elders-- not a good combination for anything, really, but especially poor for entry into an institutional setting.

So, take 1980-- please! Music production was taking its first tentative steps away from strictly documenting performances and easing into a virtualistic world-- drum machines, programmable synths. 1993, I convert the top floor of my barn into a "studio"-- and there, suddenly, were ADATs-- enabling me to record pristine audio, in a barn. Midi implementation was in full force-- I could create backing tracks on a keyboard. At the same time, the delivery format was changing from vinyl records to CDs, with the understanding that soon, CD-Rs (which I could burn in a rackmounted machine) would further level this playing field.

Do we see a trend at work, here?

All the while, Chinese factories are gearing up to produce fantastic gear for dirt cheap suggested retail prices. DAWs were taking the manipulation/control of audio data into unprecedented realms. Overall, if we tried to summarize all these trends, we'd say things have evolved from the way they were into a new way where one, lone, iconoclastic guy and his rack of gear can and will create stunning, state-of-the-art audio.

Hallelujah, and amen!
Old 20th December 2010
  #83
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Ernest Buckley's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Curtis View Post
Sorry, been busy with no time for forum lurking...


Yes, I know. You have a point. I had originally included your quote in my post, but I edited it out because I wasn't responding directly to it, so it would have only muddied up an already murky post. I apologize for not giving you props.


100% agree. How could they with the incredible selection of rooms and great engineers that are out there right now? Like I said, I don't want to compete with the literally 100's of rock'n'roll studios in L.A. for $50/hr. What's the point in jumping into that pool?



Yes, and No. Yes, I do have very good business partners in this project. And they are both on board 100%, and have both gone above and beyond what was expected. But, they have literally NO connections to the music industry, or the film/TV industry. Absolutely none.

The work that we have garnered came because I studied the market, saw a very tiny slice of the market with a need, and built the best studio that I could within a very tight budget to fulfill that need. Then I tapped my few connections to get the word out. The film scoring community is actually kind of small, and inbred, so word got around.

It was a very small target to hit: too small and it doesn't work, too big and it's too expensive to run, with a very elite clientele that does not suffer fools. Months of training and working out bugs before going online made our initial clients happy and comfortable, and got the word out that we are a serious business. We literally would have been dead in the water if we had screwed anything up in our first month of work. Now that we are online, it is a daily pursuit to stay on top of things, making sure the next gig goes perfectly. (that's the goal)

BTW. Being able to accommodate cross-media work does not limit, in any way, anything in the music recording world. Which is cool because we can record anything that we want to, but make our bread and butter as well. In fact, the music gigs are a relief from all of the short cues and high tension work environment.

And, it hasn't been easy. We are still working so hard to keep clients and get new ones. Building a solid reputation in this field is very difficult, and requires constant monitoring. Filling the calendar is more than a full-time job, and we have a great manager that does that for us. One wrong move and our reputation goes down the drain, which is nearly impossible to repair. The profit margin is laughable, and the headaches are profound. So, it is a very bad business model by any standard, but far better than a small, music-only studio. IMHO.

Greg

.
Hey Greg,

Thanks for clearing up some of those thoughts I was sharing here. Its amazing how many people took my comments and twisted them.

Not to be a PITA but you never really answered how the studio was funded. I checked out your other thread about the actual process of turning that building into a studio... it was a massive undertaking so I`m just curious how these things get funded. I mean, we`re talking hundreds of thousands just to convert the space, let alone the design and the gear.

I don`t mean to pry but as a studio "owner wanna-be", you story inspires and reminds me that it really is about finding a niche and filling it.

I`m really interested in how studio owners start out. I`m convinced that lots of people with some serious $$$ were involved until you say otherwise. heh

Peace and keep rocking,
EB
Old 20th December 2010
  #84
Lives for gear
 
Ernest Buckley's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by joelpatterson View Post
Well, my take on this is a whole quasi-religious theory, so if that offends anyone, prepare to be offended.

I think all of us walk through life with one eye cast heavenward-- does Somebody Up There like us? Are They prepared to shift a few crucial levers for our benefit? The results of this surveying is generally quite mixed... only not in my case.

There was never any prayer, really, that I'd be able to climb the Jacob's ladder of real studio apprenticeship, like all my idols. I'm far too impulsive, sarcastic, headstrong and pitying of my elders-- not a good combination for anything, really, but especially poor for entry into an institutional setting.

So, take 1980-- please! Music production was taking its first tentative steps away from strictly documenting performances and easing into a virtualistic world-- drum machines, programmable synths. 1993, I convert the top floor of my barn into a "studio"-- and there, suddenly, were ADATs-- enabling me to record pristine audio, in a barn. Midi implementation was in full force-- I could create backing tracks on a keyboard. At the same time, the delivery format was changing from vinyl records to CDs, with the understanding that soon, CD-Rs (which I could burn in a rackmounted machine) would further level this playing field.

Do we see a trend at work, here?

All the while, Chinese factories are gearing up to produce fantastic gear for dirt cheap suggested retail prices. DAWs were taking the manipulation/control of audio data into unprecedented realms. Overall, if we tried to summarize all these trends, we'd say things have evolved from the way they were into a new way where one, lone, iconoclastic guy and his rack of gear can and will create stunning, state-of-the-art audio.

Hallelujah, and amen!
So... whats the future of the large format studio? heh
Old 20th December 2010
  #85
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernest Buckley View Post
So... whats the future of the large format studio? heh
They're ready for their "Holiday in the Sun," if that rings any lyrical bells... and man, if I had only known, when I heard Mr. Rotten sing "No future for you!" that he'd be talking about a Gearslutz thread in 2010...
Old 20th December 2010
  #86
Lives for gear
 
Ernest Buckley's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by joelpatterson View Post
They're ready for their "Holiday in the Sun," if that rings any lyrical bells... and man, if I had only known, when I heard Mr. Rotten sing "No future for you!" that he'd be talking about a Gearslutz thread in 2010...
I hear you but as Gregs studio demonstrates, there is still a need for large spaces to accommodate orchestras and other larger ensembles for film/tv. The next time I`m heading up to Lake George, I need to check your place out! How far are you from there?
Old 20th December 2010
  #87
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernest Buckley View Post
... from there?
Do it, love to host you for an afternoon of revelry. I'm an hour to the east of Albany proper, right on the Vermont border-- best part of two hours south of Lake George?

Incidentally, I think there will always be a demand for fully appointed, "Coke Classic" studios-- I don't have any exclusive claim to divine intervention, I should make that plain...
Old 20th December 2010
  #88
Lives for gear
 
bassjam's Avatar
 

The future is that there will always be a need for a good room! We get hung up on this forum about gear, the most important thing in a studio is the room, if the room is good then the mix will transfer. I believe that a good LFAC will always entice a producer into a room, as long as the rates are good. Once in the room, if the room is acousticaly perfect then working there will be a joy.

There will always be a need for a LFAC in a big room for film, TV and computer game work. Are people going to mix 5.1 in there bedrooms? The future of broadcast is 3D and it will be common for more people to have multi channel audio in there living rooms. Bands will want to take advantage and mix there live DVD's in 5.1

I think that the studios that will survive and thrive are ones like The Bridge, Circle, Motor Musium and of cause Analogue Baby where we offer great rooms will great gear and none of the added bumph like swimming pools and gyms that came with rooms in the 80's

If you look at album releases, the ones that still sound real good have mostly been recorded in big rooms. My opinion is that there is still room at the top (none residential) and its the high end of mid range places that will die.

Greg
Old 20th December 2010
  #89
Lives for gear
 
bassjam's Avatar
 

P.S. There were a LOAD of desks on the factory floor when we went to look at our 88RS, both 88RS's and a lot more Genesys' than I expected with a few famous names on the build sheets!

None as famous as the name on the build sheet of our desks sister though!
Old 20th December 2010
  #90
Lives for gear
 
mowmow's Avatar
I heard someone says there are no future for music.
Lots of recording studios are turning to film studios because film industry still have big budget.

On film production compare to music production, lot more people involved (maybe to many?) which require lot more budget to complete productions. And it is much more obvious that high budget movie production makes much better films in general than the low budget film production. Music production is less obvious in comparison.

I think large studios future depend on where the music industry is heading.
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