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Mic and Preamp for pop, which one with 10000$? Condenser Microphones
Old 16th December 2010
  #1
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ArisA's Avatar
 

Mic and Preamp for pop, which one with 10000$?

Hi all,

i was wondering if you could recommend me a good setup to produce pop. I basically always wanted to buy a Neumann U87Ai and Avalon 737SP...

Now i heard and read different stories like "it depends how your singer sounds" aso...

Soo, i have about 10000$ and i want to buy a good setup. I started producing pop music after several years of electronic music.

I have everything, good monitos speakers, good AD/DA Motu 24 i/o Cubase, Juno Synthesizer, Alchemy, Nexus, Oxford Tools, T-Racks Deluxe 3, Mackie Analog mixer, good PC aso...

I have two Person who sing. The one guy is more an mc (Pitbull style) and the second person is kinda katy perry like singer.

So what do you think, i need something i can use on both. What are you recommending me? I guess a Neumann M149 would be dope, but ok expensive

What about a Neumann U67 with what preamp?

Please only recommend me something if you know that this is a good setup. I also know that Neumann is good, i know avalon, neve aso are dope.

But what is the best thing for my need

Thanks alot for your help and your time

ArisA
Old 16th December 2010
  #2
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anyone who has this problem, or works with alot of mics that could help/recommend smtg?

The problem is, theres not alot of info on which mic is good for what. Or do i really have to go with my 2 singers to the studioshop and check em all??

would be really happy for some advice

thanks Aris
Old 16th December 2010
  #3
Deleted 6ccb844
Guest
Manly gold ref, whenever I use my friends studio for my session work, this seems to be overall the best and to my knowledge I have not come across anyone sound bad with it.

Unless your singer sucks, then no amount of cash you chuck at a Mic will save you.
Old 16th December 2010
  #4
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pasarski's Avatar
 

Just buy/order from somewhere with return right, test and choose. And don't use all you're money. Save something for a Macintosh and Logic, which are kind of standard in pop scene (at least what comes to songwriting and demo's).
Old 16th December 2010
  #5
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waxx's Avatar
 

Manley gold and AMS Neve 1084 would be a good all round setup... But there are off course other possibilities also.
Old 16th December 2010
  #6
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Hi all,

thanks for your answers.

Of course, Neve aso. doesnt make Gold out of ****. I know that. The MC and the Singer are good. MC is already top here, and has now recorded an album with an electroband. I know she sings killer. Done some years ago smtg with her and she blew me away! I told her back in the days, that some day we gonna make some pop songs.

I used to work years on Logic, i fnially changed some time ago. I think im ok with Cubase. Ive produced music until some months ago with Logic 5 and released vinyl. So i really believe the DAW is not that important. I use to play since 20 years violin, so would say im musically not bad

Its really only about the mic and preamp issue. I guess the point with the return might be what i have to do. To be honest, im just to lazy to check em all, so i thought i might ask for "the solution"

I know, i dont have to give the whole 10k. It was just to let you know about what situation we're talking.

Thanks alot for your help guys, more opinions and answers very welcome

ArisA
Old 16th December 2010
  #7
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I would add a killer compressor in there. I'd find a used c800g, a tube-tech cl1b, and maybe some kind of neve preamp. I'd skip the avalon etc. Depending on what kind of pop you mean. You could save some dough and get an MA5 from Avedis, I'm sure that would sound good with the mic. Or you could also try a clean pre like a millenia, but I don't have any experience with them so I don't know. My set up is a c800g>Neve 1290>Avedis e15 eq to cut some lows>CL1B comp> pro tools.
Old 16th December 2010
  #8
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If I had 10,000 dollars I would just get a neotek elan an send it to jim williams for pres and for mics It wouldn't really matter a terrible lot you if you had a freakin neotek elan. you could have some sm 57s some gls es 57s and 58s and about 1000 dollars worth of ldc.
Old 16th December 2010
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beefy View Post
If I had 10,000 dollars I would just get a neotek elan an send it to jim williams for pres and for mics It wouldn't really matter a terrible lot you if you had a freakin neotek elan. you could have some sm 57s some gls es 57s and 58s and about 1000 dollars worth of ldc.
I'm pretty sure he's just looking for a premium vocal chain. Not a whole mixer etc.
Old 16th December 2010
  #10
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Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beefy
If I had 10,000 dollars I would just get a neotek elan an send it to jim williams for pres and for mics It wouldn't really matter a terrible lot you if you had a freakin neotek elan. you could have some sm 57s some gls es 57s and 58s and about 1000 dollars worth of ldc.

I'm pretty sure he's just looking for a premium vocal chain. Not a whole mixer etc.
Yeah but why would you pay that type of money for a pre that is trying to emulate the pres of a great mixing consule when you can just have a great mixing console? You get 24 or 32 great vocal chains with eqs and bussing. He also has a mackie mixer in his setup which would eliminate another weak link right there.
Old 16th December 2010
  #11
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ArisA's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by STARSKI View Post
I would add a killer compressor in there. I'd find a used c800g, a tube-tech cl1b, and maybe some kind of neve preamp. I'd skip the avalon etc. Depending on what kind of pop you mean. You could save some dough and get an MA5 from Avedis, I'm sure that would sound good with the mic. Or you could also try a clean pre like a millenia, but I don't have any experience with them so I don't know. My set up is a c800g>Neve 1290>Avedis e15 eq to cut some lows>CL1B comp> pro tools.
sounds good m8. I was checking a test of the C-800g. I guess they say this is the mic of the stars...

The pop i want to produce / i am right now producing is kinda Synthpop with driving beats. Kinda Lead, Stab style sound. More like the newer Pop sounds (im not gonna name them cause i dont wanna compare me with them :P). Im mostly using my roland Juno Synthesizer and Alchemy for the leadsounds and bass, so u know what comes out of a juno, so u know what kinda sound im producing

I guess the neve amp is a point that i really have to check. Ill try to check neve amps with different mics then. Thanks alot for that.

Any other opinions, knowledge u wanna share with me?

all the best

Aris
Old 16th December 2010
  #12
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evangelista's Avatar
 

OK, here's the thing -

I wouldn't spend that much on a mic and pre before taking care of your conversion and monitoring chain.

The 24i/o is ok, but not great. I'd look into a nice 2 channel ad/da for critical recording and monitoring. Maybe an Apogee Rosetta 200, or something like it.

Monitoring through the Mackie isn't ideal, either. Look into boxes by SPL, Coleman, Dangerous, etc.

Assuming a decent/treated room, with the kind of chain mentioned above, you will at least in theory be able to hear the wonderful sound quality captured by a nice mic and pre. Spending around $2k on that stuff will greatly improve your work environment, and still leave you plenty of money for a nice mic/pre combo.
Old 16th December 2010
  #13
Gear Maniac
 
ArisA's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beefy View Post
Yeah but why would you pay that type of money for a pre that is trying to emulate the pres of a great mixing consule when you can just have a great mixing console? You get 24 or 32 great vocal chains with eqs and bussing. He also has a mackie mixer in his setup which would eliminate another weak link right there.
dont get you, u wanna say my mackie is **** :P ? I think its ok, well at least better than my cubase mixer...im using my internal compressor, eq, so i think it sounds good.

And for 10k i get the console everyone wants to emulate?!? only 10k? 24 channel cost 20k no?
Old 16th December 2010
  #14
Find a place to go and try the microphones out. Rent studio time or find a dealer with high end stuff. Especially before you spend that kind of money.

We Gearslutz are full of ideas, but you are better off trying the stuff to determine what best serves your needs.

You should try the Neumanns. I love those mics. Ignore the haters and pick what you like.
Old 16th December 2010
  #15
Gear Maniac
 
ArisA's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by evangelista View Post
OK, here's the thing -

I wouldn't spend that much on a mic and pre before taking care of your conversion and monitoring chain.

The 24i/o is ok, but not great. I'd look into a nice 2 channel ad/da for critical recording and monitoring. Maybe an Apogee Rosetta 200, or something like it.

Monitoring through the Mackie isn't ideal, either. Look into boxes by SPL, Coleman, Dangerous, etc.

Assuming a decent/treated room, with the kind of chain mentioned above, you will at least in theory be able to hear the wonderful sound quality captured by a nice mic and pre. Spending around $2k on that stuff will greatly improve your work environment, and still leave you plenty of money for a nice mic/pre combo.
btw: i ordered PMC TB2S for monitoring and my room is measured. I really hear it the first time for the motu. I think for now its enough. I produce good music, thats not the point. I cant record Vocals thats the point.
Old 16th December 2010
  #16
Lives for gear
We're all a little envious, I think. Lots of people have 10s of thousands of dollars in their studios, but not too many can go: I want to spend $10k now, on just a mic and pre... That said, I have two principles when buying gear:

1. Buy it at a price you can afford to sell it again. You just don't know for sure how any given mic is going to fit with those vocalists, same with a pre into your chain. If you buy new, you get a nice shiny piece of gear and when time comes to sell, you lose 10-50% (it depends on how hard it is to find whatever you're buying). Buy used/discounted so you've got some room to work (you can usually resell used gear for a 5% loss at most).

2. Try before you buy if you can. There's gotta be a studio you could rent an hour and try out their locker of mics and pres with the singers in question, so you'd know ahead of time. Might cost you a couple of hundred and save a couple of thousand.

One more thing to think about: it's unlikely that there's going to be ONE mic that's perfect for a pitbull MC and Katy Perry (possibly a vintage U47 into a 1073, but I wouldn't bet my home on it). You may end up buying two signal chains to make it work (like SM7 into Germanium pre for him, and U147 into Neve for her), which would also give you more flexibility in the future.

Another way you could work this is find people that sound like your talent, and find out what they recorded with...
Old 16th December 2010
  #17
Gear Nut
 

I would get a 1073 with a U67 and an 1176 and bus a PCM91 and tape delay on it.
Old 21st December 2010
  #18
Gear Maniac
 
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so, after some days of thinking i guess thats my choice of the setup (im producing synthpop so the setup should be good for Synthpopkinda music)

Preamp:

Neve Preamp (thinking of the Quad mic preamp) or the 1073 Stereo preamp

or API (500 Series, is there any difference between the blue, gold and the other 500 preamps?)


Microphone:

Im pretty sure ill get a Neumann M149, a good allround mic i think. Im gonna check other mics for sure in the shop tho before buying it.


So my question is:

Someone mentioned my AD/DA, i have the motu 24 i/o. You guys really think thats not enough? Are there any "pros" which can confirm, that have used the 24 i/o and others?

For the preamp: Are there neve users, which might have worked with different modules that can tell me about which module has which sound?(1073, 1081, quad mic...) Why take that and not that?

And as mentioned by someone ill get a good compressor on top of it: So, of course when i choose API preamp it would be very easy to add a good compressor of the series (Any loved any hated ones?)
1176 was always in my head. I have a good friend whos electroengineer (or how do you call that :D ?). You know of any DIY 1176's that sound great? I dont think its a problem for him, but why waste time if the end product wont be very 1176'ish. Any Alternatives?

sorry for my bad english and thanks alot for your help, youre a great community!!



ArisA
Old 21st December 2010
  #19
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Johnny Paez's Avatar
 

1176 is good but IMO i Like a lot the distressor too
Old 21st December 2010
  #20
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Steve Honest's Avatar
 

Just

you have just enough money to get THE killer rig

Sony C800G
1073 or alike, Avedis, Donclassics, BAE,
Manley Elop

thats it, this set up sounds incredible on most things you stick in front of it

steve
Old 21st December 2010
  #21
Registered User
 

10 grand can get a lot more then a pre and mic but make sure you leave about 350ish left and pick up a sm7b it will proably out shine some of the other mics for a mc and I wouldn't call the m149 an all around mic but thats just me a u87 is an all around mic a m149 not a chance
Old 21st December 2010
  #22
Gear Maniac
 
ArisA's Avatar
 

what i forgot, i also checked ssl xrack, or mynx. If i buy minx only preamp i pay 1050£. We know what the neve preamp cost. I mean its SSL, those must be great preamps, right?
Old 23rd December 2010
  #23
Gear Maniac
 
ArisA's Avatar
 

okok, after some more days of thinking i got there:

2x Neve 1081 Preamp
1x Neumann U87 P48 (Vintage one, from an authorized dealer, they made a service they told me + gurantee...hope they didnt remove the good tube and capsule and replaced it by smtg else :P )
1x SSL Mynx G-Bus compressor
1x UA1176 LN



I guess ill have superb preamps, good compressor for channel and for master. And i guess if the neumann mic is in good condition its gonna sound huge, what you think?
Old 23rd December 2010
  #24
Gear Maniac
 
ArisA's Avatar
 

hmm, one more question:

I know the Neve 1073 are famous for there preamps.
I still was thinking on the 1081, so im getting good eq's.

Well what im asking myself:

Do I have to have a stereo preamp for the vocals? (was thinking of 2x 1081) Of course i need stereo to run my synths and stuff through. But then im asking myself do i need the famous stereo preamp 1073 for the vocals or for the synths?

Or what would you reccomend me, how are u using them?

1. want the u87 mic plugged in (which neve preamp?)
2. want my synths to run through a neve preamp (which neve preamp?)

You get my problem?

I dont know if i have to get a 1073 or 2x 1081 for my purpose.

sry for the english and sry also, im not that good in the technical aspect and thanks alot for your help

ArisA
Old 23rd December 2010
  #25
Lives for gear
I think what people are trying to say about the mackie and the conversion is that yes there is better conversion and for that pricey of a vocal chain a rosetta 200 at least would do it justice and you would have better sound going in,better clock and better da to mix and here things a lot better. it's kind of like taking the pillows off your speakers with a better converter compared to what you have. as far as the mackie it colors the sound going out and isn't passive and natural. it's being compromised by the mackies lesser signal and preamps...a nice passive monitor control hooked up to a rosetta 200 and your monitors would be key to having a great signal chain with those preamps. you can buy a rosetta 200 for 1,100 or so used on ebay and a sm- m patch 2 for $200. It will be better to ditch the mackie and run a rosseta 200 via spdif into your interface and then monitor out from the rosetta to the passive monitor control and out to the monitors.

for what you're spending figure in 2,000 into that and ditch the mackie. the mics sound great man. i would use any u67,u87 to do both female and male on top of my list and a sm7b as a back up when all else fails. if you want to save some change for compresor eq go with a api lunchbox which has a neve pre,api pre, great river, ma5...there are a lot more than the red blue pacificas you saw...actually the lunchbox has every brand you can think of at $400 for the power suppy to fit 6 modules and then 700+ per preamp. that way you could get to nice pres for 1,800 then add your choice of comp and eq.

however i would be on a toss up on vocals for compressors a ditressor since they can do a bit of different sounds, cl1b softube which i think is one of the best out there for vocals and the 1176. I've only gone for ssl on the mixbuss myself and love the api 2500 for electronic instruments hands down.

hope some of that helps man!
Old 23rd December 2010
  #26
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mike vee's Avatar
for that price i would get a variety of things so i had flavors:

U87
SM7B
AT4050
A Vintech 273
LA2A
1176
UA LA-610
and a focusrite isa one for clean sound
Old 23rd December 2010
  #27
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Marando's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by pasarski View Post
Just buy/order from somewhere with return right, test and choose. And don't use all you're money. Save something for a Macintosh and Logic, which are kind of standard in pop scene (at least what comes to songwriting and demo's).
I'm sorry, but buying a MAC will not make you a better songwriter and produce better demo's.. it's talent above all!
Old 23rd December 2010
  #28
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great thanks alot guys,

i was checking that API stuff. Of course it would be awesome to get one and then get the neve preamp, eq and good compressor all in one, truly the best solution! I was thinking of that. I wasnt sure if the neve preamps sound as they should so i was thinking of standard neve gear.

For the mackie, ill kick that one out of the setup. I used to produce drum and bass and elektro, it was kinda ok for that. I fully agree with you that its not a good solution for doing pop. Anyway, i guess i really have to think about my motu 24 i/o. Ill do some test recordings over my motu and then compare with other AD/DAs. For drum and bass it was absolutely enough.

Distressor will just come after those things i need to get first!

Ah and yes, as i mentioned before, i bought PMC TB2SAII Monitor Speakers. My room is measured and with traps. So i think thats pretty ok.


Damn, you made me think of kicking the whole setup and get back to the API stuff, with Neve preamp, good eq and compressor (whats about that fairchild 660 Comp?)

U c, im really new into that. I have some money, and i really wanna buy a good setup with which i can start to work. I dont wanna buy stuff, and then always changing things. Of course there might be some changes, but i dont want to change from neve to api to whatever. Just wanna stay on one system.
Old 12th March 2011
  #29
Gear Maniac
 
ArisA's Avatar
 

Hello,

i just wanted to say thanks for the tips and infos. I finally bought


1084 Pre
SSL Alpha Link
Benchmark DAC1
Vintage U87 (which i already have)
PMC tb2smkii (which i already have and they sound beautiful )

It has been shipped yesterday, so cant wait to get the stuff next week

Ill let you know how it sounds

Thanks again
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