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Wave Rider: Is this the end of Mix Engineers? Dynamics Plugins
Old 15th December 2010
  #1
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Zep Dude's Avatar
 

Wave Rider: Is this the end of Mix Engineers?

Start packing boys, our job is done!

Only kidding.

I just downloaded Wave Rider last night and tried it on a particularly dynamic vocal. Wow, this thing is going to be such a time saver!

My sincerest thanks to the developer of this plugin! It's one thing to have fun with an EQ or effect, but to have a plugin that actually saves me a great amount of TIME is a true gift.

I estimate that this will save me cumulatively 5-10 hours over the course of mixing an album. That's a DAY of my life I get back for each project!

Is this plugin perfect? No, but it gets a good deal of the dirty work done for you. I was surprised how well it worked with the very quiet words when a singer trails off the last few words in a loud phrase with almost a whisper. Working by hand, those are the time killers because you have to keep going over them raising the fader more and more and trying to balance each word correctly.

After playing with the settings I like it more towards the "lazy" side.

A few notes to the developer:

It tends to overshoot when going from a very soft word to a loud word, even on "lazy". In other words, that loud word ends up too quiet.

What's the official word on how far to move the automation back? Your manual says around 40ms but I read a post where you said 300ms? I'm using PT HD V 7.3, but will switch to V8 very soon.


Suggestion: for those of us that like to de-ess using automation, can you come up with an Ess-Rider that could be applied after the vocal riding plugin?

I've been wondering for the last 5 years why no one was creating a vocal riding plugin.

Congratulations!
Old 15th December 2010
  #2
Lives for gear
 
Rokus666's Avatar
I'm digging the vocal rider!
Old 15th December 2010
  #3
Gear Addict
 

Very cool! I just watched a demo of it on YouTube.

I might have to try a demo.

~Jay
Old 15th December 2010
  #4
Gear Maniac
 

I've had an automatic vocal rider for years. It's called a compressor.
Old 15th December 2010
  #5
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by hibakusha View Post
I've had an automatic vocal rider for years. It's called a compressor.
that's a pretty ignorant statement. there's a pretty big difference between automated level adjustment and compression
Old 15th December 2010
  #6
Deleted User
Guest
maybe no

The fact that it does´nt write automation to the Pro Tools Volume track makes it bothersome. You have to leave the plug-in open, even after it wrote it´s automation. What good is that for?
Basically it introduces another thing to worry about, not the opposite.
It´s a good idea, but I find it poorly executed.
Old 16th December 2010
  #7
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Zep Dude's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by escape View Post
The fact that it does´nt write automation to the Pro Tools Volume track makes it bothersome. You have to leave the plug-in open, even after it wrote it´s automation. What good is that for?
Basically it introduces another thing to worry about, not the opposite.
It´s a good idea, but I find it poorly executed.
Not sure if I understand you correctly, but it does in fact write volume automation that stays on the track after you close the plugin. It's literally the same effect as when you move the fader yourself.

I had it write to the vocal track directly but then decided to move that automation over to a VCA and had no problems.


One thing with this plug is that you MUST read the directions because there are some set up things that must be followed. It's not difficult and is a quick read but it's not intuitive (like setting it up in peripherals, temporarily disabling Command 8).

Long story short, I just set it up for 8 tracks in the peripherals window and then move the vox track to the top of the edit window (left side of the mixer window) so it's "track 1".

From there I set it to latch mode, hit play and watch the automation get written. There are 3 controls which have to do with overall output level (which can be adjusted later by moving the entire track's automation), where it puts the fader when there's "no signal" and how aggressive you want it to track.

Then you shift the entire tracks automation by, I think, 50ms, but you can certainly do this visually to get it where it's best. Doing the shift is important because if you don't you'll hear some of the larger rides grabbing the vocal.

I'm just learning this thing today so I'll post anything else I learn over the next few days as I'm finishing mixing this album.
Old 16th December 2010
  #8
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tzujan's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by escape View Post
The fact that it does´nt write automation to the Pro Tools Volume track makes it bothersome. You have to leave the plug-in open, even after it wrote it´s automation. What good is that for?
Basically it introduces another thing to worry about, not the opposite.
It´s a good idea, but I find it poorly executed.
Are you talking about this: CRACK THIS! WAVERIDER IS ONLY $49. | Wave Rider which does write levels.
Old 16th December 2010
  #9
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tzujan's Avatar
 

Sorry Zep, i did not see that you already made the clarification.
Old 16th December 2010
  #10
Deleted User
Guest
Sorry, maybe i was not beeing precise. I meant, after i wrote the automation i cannot clear the plug from that channel.
Maybe they updated it, but when I bought it month´s ago, I finally stopped using it because it forced me to deal with a new type of volumecontrol-track on my system. I did´nt like it, to me that does´nt make sense.
If it would write to the Pro Tools Volume track it´d be ok. You still have to, and you will, do manual adjustments at the end.
Old 16th December 2010
  #11
Deleted User
Guest
oh, are we discussing the same thing? I think I got that wrong.I was refering to the Waves Plug in Vocal Rider.
Sorry ZEP.
Old 16th December 2010
  #12
Harmless Wacko
 

It's OK.

Sure does give very UNIFORM results, which is ONE WAY of hearing how a vocal sits in a mix.

I used it ALL THE TIME for a coupla months...

Then not so much...

Then I was back with my finger on a motorized fader.

HOHOHO.

But kinda true.

I sorta forget I've GOT the damn thing half the time.

Best regards,

SM.

PS. I could see myself using this a LOT MORE if I was mixing totally ITB. As utilizing it on LFAC is a bit more work to get it to function properly.

PPS. Whoops. I'm talking about the Waves Vocal Rider. I'm confused... is this a different product with the SAME NAME? Crash. LMFBO. It's too good. OK. Nevermind.
Old 16th December 2010
  #13
Lives for gear
 
Unclenny's Avatar
Haven't used it.

But......I sure do enjoy the time I spend manually automating my vocal tracks. It is an important part of my creative proccess.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zep Dude View Post
I estimate that this will save me cumulatively 5-10 hours over the course of mixing an album. That's a DAY of my life I get back for each project!
As a very serious hobbyist I surely do respect that particular perspective.
Old 16th December 2010
  #14
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Zep Dude's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by slipperman View Post
It's OK.

Sure does give very UNIFORM results, which is ONE WAY of hearing how a vocal sits in a mix.

I used it ALL THE TIME for a coupla months...

Then not so much...

Then I was back with my finger on a motorized fader.

HOHOHO.

But kinda true.

I sorta forget I've GOT the damn thing half the time.

Best regards,

SM.

PS. I could see myself using this a LOT MORE if I was mixing totally ITB. As utilizing it on LFAC is a bit more work to get it to function properly.

PPS. Whoops. I'm talking about the Waves Vocal Rider. I'm confused... is this a different product with the SAME NAME? Crash. LMFBO. It's too good. OK. Nevermind.
I could see that being the case. If it's guilty of anything it's being too good at what it does -flattening things way down. But that's where we humans come in to do the final tweaking by hand. I just love that it does the drudgery work that used to really burn me out. I've had two very gifted but highly dynamic singers in a row and evening them out is a very tedious process. This plug, in one pass, did what was literally taking me an hour last week. It's not just the time it's saving. It also keeps me fresh and moving the mix along.

This thing, I think, should be killer on upright bass.

I hope the designer chimes in here because I'd love to talk with him in more detail.
Old 16th December 2010
  #15
Gear Maniac
 
tzujan's Avatar
 

I find myself using all the time on long format post projects, shows & films and rarely on commercials and songs.
Old 16th December 2010
  #16
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Zep Dude's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by slipperman View Post

PPS. Whoops. I'm talking about the Waves Vocal Rider. I'm confused... is this a different product with the SAME NAME? Crash. LMFBO. It's too good. OK. Nevermind.

Wave Rider
Waves Vocal Rider

Gee, why would you have any confusion over that

(Cheesy move by Waves if you asked me).
Old 16th December 2010
  #17
Gear Addict
 
Fenris's Avatar
 

I've just finished building a mechanical volume leveler. The vocalist stands on a motorized platform, which physically moves the singer further or closer to the mic in response to volume level. Attack time is related to the mass of the vocalist, thereby providing a fast attack for rock vocals and a slower attack for opera. Accessories include velcro-soled shoes and motion sickness pills.
Old 16th December 2010
  #18
Harmless Wacko
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zep Dude View Post
Wave Rider
Waves Vocal Rider

Gee, why would you have any confusion over that

(Cheesy move by Waves if you asked me).
Don't know. Just guessing but...



I think it's the other way around.

The Waves product is well over a year old.

SM.
Old 16th December 2010
  #19
Gear Maniac
 
tzujan's Avatar
 

Wave Rider came out before waves
Quote:
Originally Posted by slipperman View Post
Don't know. Just guessing but...



I think it's the other way around.

The Waves product is well over a year old.

SM.
Old 16th December 2010
  #20
Lives for gear
 

I've been consulting for a college in London for a few years regarding an automatic "music mixer" project they have been working on for quite some time.

Seriously, we have nothing to worry about for 'many' years to come.
Old 16th December 2010
  #21
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Zep Dude's Avatar
 

There are aspects of mixing that are routine and aspects that are artistic (or at least highly crafty).

I'm enthusiastic about anything that helps to move the process along more quickly.

If in the future I can sit and say to the computer, "Ok, I want this mix to start off sounding like [insert record here], now tighten up the snare reverb, bring the vocal out more, add more doubling, more click on the kick..."

Isn't that what we do now anyway? How many times has an artist described the sound they want based on another record "a little like that Tom Petty song" or whatever.

If a machine can do the first 75% of the mix, all the better. I only get paid because of the last 25% anyway.
Old 16th December 2010
  #22
This Vocal Rider sounds like the best thing since sliced bread to me.
If there is anything i hate doing, it must be automation.
Does it work only with mono signals or with stereo too?
Old 23rd January 2011
  #23
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Mundox's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zep Dude View Post

I hope the designer chimes in here because I'd love to talk with him in more detail.
Just saw this.

Zep, there's a new version out (new features, new algo, and new price ), and a new site with videos.
Check it out.

If you have any questions, either catch me here, or on the site.

Cheers

Note to posters who confuse Wave Rider with the other rider:
Wave Rider came out in March 2009, the other rider was announced in October 2009.
Old 23rd January 2011
  #24
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gsilbers's Avatar
 

how is it on other sources besides vocals?
(any of the riders)
Old 23rd January 2011
  #25
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gsilbers's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mundox View Post
Just saw this.

Zep, there's a new version out (new features, new algo, and new price ), and a new site with videos.
Check it out.

If you have any questions, either catch me here, or on the site.

Cheers

Note to posters who confuse Wave Rider with the other rider:
Wave Rider came out in March 2009, the other rider was announced in October 2009.
damN just noticed... no AU/VSt support :(
Old 23rd January 2011
  #26
Lives for gear
I thought vocal rider was used so you didn't have to compress the vocals as hard.
Old 23rd January 2011
  #27
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsilbers View Post
damN just noticed... no AU/VSt support :(
And I just noticed MAC only. Booo.
Old 23rd January 2011
  #28
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Jerrick's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bender412 View Post
And I just noticed MAC only. Booo.
Yeah, im still waiting for that vst option, that will be amazing.
Old 23rd January 2011
  #29
Gear Maniac
 
tzujan's Avatar
 

Mundox,

Loving the new version!
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