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Was the sweetwater guy lying to me? Condenser Microphones
Old 15th December 2010
  #1
Would the 610 be a good option?*

I've been talking to a sales guy from sweetwater... he's been very helpful!
I've been trying to figure my PT9 switch, and he talked me through that stuff.
Now I'm looking for a PRE for an MA200...
He says the UA610 solo would be a great match. I've heard this pre, and I want it. I'm a little worried it wont have enough headroom to support a tube mic and still retain some cleanliness. Anyone ever matched these two? Is the SW guy just trying to sell me something they're overstocked on? He hasn't been too sales pushy, but it's clear that he's motivated by cash.

Would a Daking pre work better? 800 is about the budget on this go to pre.

I'll be track lots of acoustic instruments, drums, and vocals

Thoughts?

Last edited by Baroque; 16th December 2010 at 07:27 AM.. Reason: ...
Old 15th December 2010
  #2
Both pres sound good and will work fine.

I'd go with the Daking.
Old 15th December 2010
  #3
Gear Addict
 
Mr. Light's Avatar
I don't speak from experience but I've heard a couple people (who know more than I do on the matter) say to avoid using tube mic w/tube pre.

Flame away
Old 15th December 2010
  #4
Lives for gear
 

I had a 610 pre, then sold it and got a 500-series great river instead - much happier. The 610 did have a pleasing sound on some material, but I did have problems with noise floor and having enough gain for ribbons and such. I thought the great river was a much more versatile choice, and it had its own pleasant color. Haven't used the dakings...
Old 15th December 2010
  #5
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Lenzo's Avatar
Same here...had the 610 and a avalon...sold them both for a couple of great river 500 units...love em. But I do think pre's are a subjective think. Thought the 610 was great on electric guitar and really good on bass. I think the GR is just good on just about everything.
L.
Old 15th December 2010
  #6
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
As a general rule, I wouldn't pick a tube pre with tube mic. At least that's not where I'd start. I'd personally look towards the Daking or other SS pre.
Old 15th December 2010
  #7
Gear Maniac
 

You can find a used Great River ME-1NV for about $800.
Old 15th December 2010
  #8
Deleted User
Guest
Is the massive retailer salesman lying to me to get a sale, hmmmm let me think about that one

Please realize that when doing sales you get an in stock inventory list daily and are told what to push daily. Carry on.

The Great River or Daking is a good suggestion IMO.

From my experience running a Pearlman TM1 through an Avalon 737sp, it sounded just fine. The tube mic and tube pre argument is nonsense at best.
I do think if you combine tube with non tube gives you a better sound overall. Tube mic, try a non-tube pre. Non-Tube Mic try a tube pre etc.
Old 15th December 2010
  #9
Gear Nut
 
SMCrock's Avatar
I regularly use my MA200 and 610 together. Sounds great. I also think you could be equally happy with the Daking. Sounds like a win/win to me. Good luck!
Old 15th December 2010
  #10
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Halloween's Avatar
I, Like others here, would avoid the Tube Mic + Tube Pre Combo.
Old 15th December 2010
  #11
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I mean..... I would never want to plug a u47 into a v72, that must sound like crap.
Old 15th December 2010
  #12
Gear Addict
 
T.R.'s Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Halloween View Post
I, Like others here, would avoid the Tube Mic + Tube Pre Combo.
And why is that exactly? I would like to hear why it seems to be to a no- go. Headroom issues?

All the best!
Old 15th December 2010
  #13
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swafford's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by charlesaustin View Post
I mean..... I would never want to plug a u47 into a v72, that must sound like crap.
Yes, the Royer 122v into the Mercury M72 is just trouble waiting to happen.

And i'd buy the Daking.
Old 15th December 2010
  #14
Lives for gear
 

1. Sweetwater is guys who are NOT engineers, they are salesmen. That is their job. Don't confuse the 2.

2. This "no tube mic with tube pre" is complete B.S... As in 100% internet nonsense. Literally nonsense.

It reads cool, and seems logical but its complete malarky... And Im 100% surprised at the posters who say so... Especially guys like Dr. Bill. Hes not an idiot but implying there is a fault with a tube/tube combo is...

You can not like the preamp combo you have of a tube mic and a tube pre but thats not because of the TUBES

Literally just hogwash... But its the internet and it is what it is.

The 610 DOES have headroom issues. The 610 does sound good (we have one in studio A). It strangely sounds good with tube mics... Though the internet says it doesn't and won't...

Maybe I should return/sell the 251, e47 and u67 as they shouldn't work with a 610 and do? They must be broken...

The longer this place exists, and the more of the old cats disappear, the more of this BS continues to spread like ignorance cancer...
Old 15th December 2010
  #15
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This "no tube mic with tube pre" is complete B.S... As in 100% internet nonsense. Literally nonsense.

Couldn't quite figure that one out myself...

Admittedly I'm from the dinosaur generation, but back in my radio days we used tube mics with tube preamps all of the time, since that was all there was to use.
Old 15th December 2010
  #16
Gear Addict
 
T.R.'s Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bdenton View Post
This "no tube mic with tube pre" is complete B.S... As in 100% internet nonsense. Literally nonsense.

Couldn't quite figure that one out myself...

Admittedly I'm from the dinosaur generation, but back in my radio days we used tube mics with tube preamps all of the time, since that was all there was to use.
Thanks to McDingus and you for clearing that up for me. I thought about it and I couldn't come up with a reasonable argumentation against it, so I thought it would have to do with headroom issues.
At least I thought about it- which is a good thing because it shows that I am still trying to learn


All the best!
Old 15th December 2010
  #17
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Slikjmuzik's Avatar
 

I just used a tube mic with a tube pre last night. The vocalist was absolutely thrilled at the sound he was getting. It was a Telefunken AR-51 into a Manley Dual Mono with gain cranked to 60. Sounded incredible. Some tube pres won't sound good with tube mics, some solid state mics won't sound good with a particular tube pre and some tube mics won't sound right with a solid state preamp. It's completely situational. If there's anything you'll grasp from lurking in the high end forum, it's this. Anyone who gives you a hard and fast general rule like this doesn't quite get the whole art of engineering and producing music. Do what sounds right to you. FWIW, the Ma200 with the 610 preamp is said to be a fabulous combination for vocals. even better would be the LA610. If that's the intent of that setup, don't hesitate for a second because I find it hard to believe that you'll be dissatisfied. Something about the 610 pre that allows me to not have to pitch correct vocals as much. The second I switch the preamp, I feel like I'm finding more areas of the vocal that sound out of tune. The 610 is creamy and full. Not the ideal pre for everything, but for vocals, it's amazing. You'd have to get into Manley or Mercury to get something any more musical, for vocals at least. It's the ultimate bidget mic preamp as it helps cheaper pres sound more expensive too. That's just my opinion, so take it for what it's worth.
Old 15th December 2010
  #18
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RusRant's Avatar
 

Funny, as I have used an all Tube mic, pre, comp combo many, many times while tracking. No one died, it sounded great. Who knows what strange repercussions on the universe this had though!!

IMO the sweetwater sales reps are never pushy, but they do have an agenda. If you go in with knowledge and know what you want and need than this is a mute point. Do more research and then make a decision based on that.
Old 15th December 2010
  #19
Jai guru deva om
 
warhead's Avatar
 

Just a comment in general, doesn't it seem unfair to put "Sweetwater" and "lying" in the title of a thread? I enter the thread and it's clearly an opinion / sales pitch which in all honesty is likely what that rep believes.

Should it even be considered anywhere near a "lie"?

Everybody believes in different things. Yes corporate stores are more likely to steer as they have been given "numbers" as goals but that doesn't mean every time or even this guy.

I think it's dangerous to make such inferences, especially in the TITLE.

Sweetwater is huge, but that doesn't make them dishonest.

War
Old 15th December 2010
  #20
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by McDingus View Post
It reads cool, and seems logical but its complete malarky... And Im 100% surprised at the posters who say so... Especially guys like Dr. Bill. Hes not an idiot but implying there is a fault with a tube/tube combo is...
Hey, everybody can have an opinion McD. I didn't say it was stupid. I didn't say it wouldn't work. I didn't say hundreds of great records weren't cut that way. I did NOT mean to imply that there is some kind of "fault" in that signal path. I said AS A GENERAL RULE, I'd reach for a SS pre first with a tube mic. That's my personal preference. Not a condemnation of someone who regularly does the opposite of me. Cut me a little slack dude. thumbsup

All the stupid hating around here wears me out......
Old 15th December 2010
  #21
Gear Addict
 
rob61's Avatar
 

Not necessarily dishonest, but according to the Musicians' and Artists' Contemporary Dictionary of Slang...

Sweetwater salesman
–noun Slang .
1. bottom tier corporate wonk (white shirt and tie instead of a suit) who wanted to play guitar more than get a business degree and dreams of buying a guitar at discount instead of getting keys to the executive washroom.
2. wanna be musician with shattered dreams that's gone corporate.
Old 15th December 2010
  #22
a tube mic with a tube pre is definitely going to have "a sound", personally it's "a sound" I like. I think it really comes down to personal preference and the needs of a session/recording/artist.

I think the only real big take away is, that getting locked into one particular sound/character may not be what is desired by someone starting out - but then again, if they know that they like tube character - why not.
Old 15th December 2010
  #23
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edva's Avatar
MA 200 into LA 610 is actually a pretty good match. The 610 seems to smooth the 200's hint of rasp quite well, here anyway. YMMV.
Old 15th December 2010
  #24
Gear Addict
 
rob61's Avatar
 

It can start to sound really tube-y. But then again, I like a C-12 into an LA-2A into a Pultec.
Old 15th December 2010
  #25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Light View Post
I don't speak from experience but I've heard a couple people (who know more than I do on the matter) say to avoid using tube mic w/tube pre.

Flame away
that is ridiculous, I would listen to the sound of the mic and see what pre you think works best with it, by trying it with different pre's. Blanket statements like that are silly. FWIW my regular vocal chain is a tube mic into a tube pre into a tube compressor
Old 15th December 2010
  #26
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RARStudios's Avatar
Quit being dicks about Sweetwater, they have treated me just fine and given me quite a few hour long phone conversations on setting things up that I didnt even buy from them. Luke at Sweetwater has only pushed good items to buy on me, and legitimate good buys. I buy most of my miscellaneous gear from them and cables and such. They are one of those companies that went big and doesn't eff the customer, atleast in my opinion. I would say your sales engineer was making his or her personal opinion about the buy, I have had them steer me clear of things I was going to buy before, as well as saying to wait and get a better bang for a buck or buy something that is LESS expensive that does the same thing.

Just my 2 cents, but controversy like this goes a long way when the title is all people read most of the time...
Old 15th December 2010
  #27
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doug hazelrigg's Avatar
The MA200 -- that's a Mojave mic right? I tend to think that a MA200 into a 610 will indeed produce a decidedly "creamy" sound -- if that's what you want, then by all means go for it. It's all about what sound you're after, IMHO.

Regarding a Sweetwater sales rep "lying" I think that's pretty unfair. I've dealt with the same guy at Sweet for years and I think I can say he's never lied to me or, or even pushed me hard in one particular direction. But he most certainly HAS steered me away from a more expensive product to a lesser expensive product in order to meet what I was looking for (I once was set to buy a U87 for piano and he warned me off of it... I bought a much better suited earthworks pair for far less money).

I also think the slam against the sales guys as "failed musicians" is bull**** -- everybody needs an income in order to take care of their family... c'mon, let's get real here
Old 15th December 2010
  #28
Gear Addict
 
rob61's Avatar
 

Sales engineer?

A salesman by any other name is still a saleman. Not that they are dishonest, but they are box pushers.

Q. What's the difference between a car salesman and a Sweetwater salesman?

A. The car salesman knows when he's lying.
Old 15th December 2010
  #29
So much Sweetwater hate!

I've always been truly pleased with the service I've received from my Sweetwater rep - he goes out of his way to hunt down any info I need, returns calls and emails promptly, follows up on his service (even if I don't end up purchasing from him) and is a generally pleasant and non-salesmanlike.

Maybe he's not an engineer, but I am, and I can make decisions about the gear I purchase myself. I've had plenty of engineers recommend me gear that I've hated.

I know that it ultimately comes down to the individual sales rep, maybe I got lucky. But I don't really care how big a company is as long as they treat me well and provide great service, and that's been my experience with Sweetwater (at least with my rep). I've purchased from plenty of smaller vendors (some even on this board) and usually have never even received a follow up call or really felt like my business was valued.

To each his own.
Old 15th December 2010
  #30
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Lenzo's Avatar
I too have bought a lot of stuff from Sweetwater. Some of the best customer service in the business. My only complaint is that the candy they send with every order is hard on my teeth..my fault for eating it. Otherwise, my rep has never pushed me to buy anything...always very responsive and every single order I've placed has been shipped out the day I ordered it. They are a very professional outfit and to say otherwise would indicate to me that you haven't really dealt with them and have adopted the "because they're a big outfit, they must be evil" mentality.
L.
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