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Was the sweetwater guy lying to me? Condenser Microphones
Old 15th December 2010
  #31
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by charlesaustin View Post
I mean..... I would never want to plug a u47 into a v72, that must sound like crap.
Hahaha... classic!

U47 into a Manley VoxBox has been one of my favorite vocal chains for a lot of singers.

C.
Old 15th December 2010
  #32
Lives for gear
 
jeremy.c.'s Avatar
Sweetwater has sales people with opinions, and not everyone will agree, so lying seems a bit a of a stretch.

At any rate, I found the 610 to work really well with bright condensers. It really was a winner with an AT4033 and also great with the less bright AT4050. I used it with a tube mic as well and had no issues. I do not think headroom will be a problem on the 610 with condenser, but perhaps a ribbon as has been mentioned, and it also doubles as an amazing Bass DI. I am not familiar with the MA200, but if you find it at all bright the 610 will treat it well.

The 610s are also amazing on drum overheads and are easy to drive in a nice way if that's what you're looking for. I think it's an all around winner, but you'll find different uses for different tools. This won't be better or worse than a SS Daking or Great River. I would say pick one and save for the other eventually.

I should also mention the EQ is pretty nice as well.
Old 15th December 2010
  #33
Gear Addict
My sweetwater rep was very helpful earlier today regarding some questions I had about ProTools 9...he has never been pushy and always asks what my preferences are regarding things...thumbsup
Old 15th December 2010
  #34
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Hammer Mark's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baroque View Post
...Now I'm looking for a PRE for an MA200...
He says the UA610 solo would be a great match. I've heard this pre, and I want it. I'm a little worried it wont have enough headroom to support a tube mic and still retain some cleanliness...
On the issue of headroom -- it's not an issue. Tube and SS condensers put out relatively hot levels (compared to dynamics and ribbons), so just about any pre will have enough gain.

I can't comment on the pieces you're considering, but my preference would be for something rack-mountable -- that can be accommodated in a growing system.
Old 15th December 2010
  #35
Gear Maniac
 

I've had nothing but good dealings with Jason and his team at Sweetwater, and I've bought a pretty significant (at least for me) amount of gear from them over the past year setting up my semi-pro home studio.

In fact, I was all ready to jump to waves live rack or some other laptop based effects processing for my vocal group, and buy a new interface, plugins, etc, and he called me and talked to me for about 40 minutes about the pros/cons and why it probably wouldn't work well for our needs at the time. Do you know what he recommended I purchase? Nothing... he said to stick with what I had (which I did not buy from Sweetwater, it was pre my dealings with them), which is a fine setup, just bulky.

That's the kind of service you just don't see anywhere else. I recommend them to everyone, and they have some of the best prices out there... maybe not on everything, but on most.
Old 15th December 2010
  #36
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NF Audio's Avatar
Well designed tube equipment doesn't distort under normal circumstances, in fact tubes in a proper design a fantastically linear amplifying devices.

So I wouldn't be concerned that you wont be able to record nice clean sounds through your tube mic and tube pre.
Old 16th December 2010
  #37
Deleted User
Guest
FYI, I get all my gear at Sweetwater, Sweetwater is NOT the issue so dont misunderstand. Im simply making a statement about SALES in general.
Sales are driven by sales goals/inventory supply and profit margin percentage per item.
If you dont believe this then your CLUELESS

If sales are driving the system, which they are, it would serve you best to take all salesman opinions with a grain of salt. Yes Ive done sales and we all know the deal
Old 16th December 2010
  #38
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by rob61 View Post
Not necessarily dishonest, but according to the Musicians' and Artists' Contemporary Dictionary of Slang...

Sweetwater salesman
–noun Slang .
1. bottom tier corporate wonk (white shirt and tie instead of a suit) who wanted to play guitar more than get a business degree and dreams of buying a guitar at discount instead of getting keys to the executive washroom.
2. wanna be musician with shattered dreams that's gone corporate.
C'mon. No need to be a jackass.

Anyway, I liked the 610 for bass, but I thought it really needed a bright condenser for vocals as someone else has said. I didn't like it for my voice, that's for sure. Again, really good on bass and monophonic synth too.
Old 16th December 2010
  #39
Quote:
Originally Posted by shanabit View Post
FYI, I get all my gear at Sweetwater, Sweetwater is NOT the issue so dont misunderstand. Im simply making a statement about SALES in general.
Sales are driven by sales goals/inventory supply and profit margin percentage per item.
If you dont believe this then your CLUELESS
I think that's an OK attitude to have in the back of your mind, slightly wary, skeptical. But don't forget a lot of salespeople want to give you good advice to build trust and loyalty, and have you coming back as a repeat customer.
If all sales were devoid of the customer's true needs, all of us as customers would be screwed.
Also, just as a sidebar, "lying" is definitely way over the top.
"Opinion"? Yes. Hoping to sell an in-stock item? No doubt.
Old 16th December 2010
  #40
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jeremy.c.'s Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by blacklion View Post
Anyway, I liked the 610 for bass, but I thought it really needed a bright condenser for vocals as someone else has said. I didn't like it for my voice, that's for sure. Again, really good on bass and monophonic synth too.
Exactly, I think it does something nice in the low mids to bass and synth, kind of in the range that isn't so flattering to some male vocals. Female vocals with the AT4033 were (surprisingly to me at the time) extremely balanced and smooth.
Old 16th December 2010
  #41
Gear Guru
 
u b k's Avatar
 

The more tubes I get into my chain the happier I am. Same with ribbons and dynamics.

Going tape-less requires some adjustments; I'm really starting to love digital, especially as I find more ways to slow the hf energy down a bit.

Back on topic, something to keep in mind is the 610 is not representative of the sound you'll get with most current tube production units, which in my experience are very musical and very hi-fi. I love a good tubey top, SS preamps can be smooth, but they don't shimmer the way a good tube path does. SS mic/pre sibilance also gets unpleasant and obtrusive very fast, where tube sibilance gets slurry and can actually be kinda sweet.


Gregory Scott - ubk
Old 16th December 2010
  #42
Quote:
Originally Posted by u b k View Post
Back on topic, something to keep in mind is the 610 is not representative of the sound you'll get with most current tube production units, which in my experience are very musical and very hi-fi.
I'm confused by this sentence, which is which... in your opinion

the 610 is... very musical and very hi-fi

or

most current tube production units... are very musical and very hi-fi

and what other "current tube production units" are you referring to specifically?
Old 16th December 2010
  #43
Lives for gear
 

What's with all the Sweetwater bashing? Big fans of GC?

Seriously - they're a BIG retailer.. that's still a mom & pop shop (albeit a huge one). I've never had anything but good service from them.. bought my first stuff from them over 20 years ago.

If you want boutique stuff - go there.. you may (or may not) pay a premium. If you want to support a family-owned business that can compete price-wise with the BanjoMart conglomerate.. go Sweetwater.
Old 16th December 2010
  #44
Gear Guru
 
kafka's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by BLUElightCory View Post
Both pres sound good and will work fine.

I'd go with the Daking.
I have both the 610 and the Daking MP1. I use them both with tube, FET, dynamic, and ribbon mics all the time. If I had just a pair of one, I'd still be pretty happy with it, no matter which it is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by warhead View Post
Just a comment in general, doesn't it seem unfair to put "Sweetwater" and "lying" in the title of a thread? I enter the thread and it's clearly an opinion / sales pitch which in all honesty is likely what that rep believes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremy.c. View Post
Sweetwater has sales people with opinions, and not everyone will agree, so lying seems a bit a of a stretch.
+1. Whether you prefer a 610 to a Daking is a matter of opinion. The rep tried to communicate something he heard that in his mind tipped the scales in one direction. One might disagree, but there's nothing wrong with it. That's what advice is all about.

Oh, and honestly, that thing about a tube mic not sounding good through a tube preamp is pure inexperience talking. It's all about your tube mic into your tube preamp on your source, and what you want it to sound like. If it's how you get your sound, it's great. If not, it's just the wrong tool.
Old 16th December 2010
  #45
Lives for gear
 
Boschen's Avatar
 

I suggest you shouldn't assume the salesman was lying. You did say he was helpful, after all. It's his job to sell gear. If he's good at what he does, he will know a thing or two about the stuff he sells, but in the end, it's our burden to be responsible for the proper selection of what gear we buy. And it's ok to ask directly for an opinion on a product, or to bring up your reservations. If you don't feel right about the salesperson, politely sign off, then call back, or just ask to speak with another sales agent.

Throwing stones at people who work in sales is a dead end. Most of the people in this forum don't make their entire living from audio, and have some other job for income. It doesn't make them less worthy of respect.
We seem to have a short supply of that around these parts.

A good salesman will help steer you toward the best possible selection for your budget; they would rather make a smaller sale than lose one completely. I work with lots of large wholesalers and suppliers; when I find a sales agent I like, I get their extension, and call them directly with all future orders. A good relationship with a sales agent can be a valuable asset.

I think both those preamps are pretty damn fine.
Old 16th December 2010
  #46
Lives for gear
 
doug hazelrigg's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by shanabit View Post
Sales are driven by sales goals/inventory supply and profit margin percentage per item.
If you dont believe this then your CLUELESS
I must be clueless then. My family has owned a Chrysler dealership since 1941 and I can guarantee you we don't lie to people or "steer" them to a particular product because of profit margin or sales quotas. If we did that, we'd have gone out of business years ago. In fact, although car dealers get a bum rap from the general public, the little known secret is that the CUSTOMERS lie to US endlessly and without shame... while any employee of ours who was caught deliberately lying would be quickly terminated.

Let me ask you a question: if YOU found yourself in a sales position, would YOU lie or manipulate people in their purchasing decisions? I'll assume your answer would be, "Hell no!" Then why do you assume that nobody else in sales has the same integrity you claim to have?
Old 16th December 2010
  #47
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slikjmuzik View Post
I just used a tube mic with a tube pre last night. The vocalist was absolutely thrilled at the sound he was getting. It was a Telefunken AR-51 into a Manley Dual Mono with gain cranked to 60. Sounded incredible.
How do you deal with gain staging at that level? I would be distorting the hell out of everything...The Dual Mono doesn't have output attenuation, does it?
Old 16th December 2010
  #48
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doug hazelrigg's Avatar
Maybe I misunderstood something in this thread, but why would anybody chose a 610 for a ribbon mic? I don't own a 610, but I DID purchase the high-gain Grace amp in order to accommodate my Royers
Old 16th December 2010
  #49
Gear Guru
 
u b k's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lives For Fuzz View Post
the 610 is... very musical and very hi-fi

or

most current tube production units... are very musical and very hi-fi?

Sorry for the ambiguity: current tube designs are generally, to my ears, very open and clear. The 610 is a different animal. I like it, I like them all, if that means anything.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lives For Fuzz View Post
and what other "current tube production units" are you referring to specifically?

The ones I've either used, or been in sessions where they were used: Fearn, Pendulum, TAB, LaChapell, Peach. The Peach was the most musical and detailed preamp I've ever heard, but it was also well out of my price league so I had to hand it back to the dealer. That was a sad, sad day.


Gregory Scott - ubk
Old 16th December 2010
  #50
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by doug hazelrigg View Post
Maybe I misunderstood something in this thread, but why would anybody chose a 610 for a ribbon mic?
You misunderstood. We were talking about Tube condensers. The MA200 is a tube condenser mic.
Old 16th December 2010
  #51
I too have had excellent service from Sweetwater.
They've never tried to push anything on me.
Great customer service.
I love the candy...Makes me sad when I get packages from other places and there's no candy in there.
Old 16th December 2010
  #52
Lives for gear
 
Knox's Avatar
 

. . . this ("don't use a tube mic with a tube pre" comment) could be one of the dumbest things I have ever seen at GS. OF COURSE you can! . . . A tube mic into a tube pre . . . . (and yes EVEN w/ a tube compressor at times) can be a beautiful thing! The amount of wonderful / great sounding records this was done on is countless! Many were even recorded through a tube based tape recorder through a tube console!!
Old 16th December 2010
  #53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Light View Post
I don't speak from experience but I've heard a couple people (who know more than I do on the matter) say to avoid using tube mic w/tube pre.

Flame away
That is such crap! If it sounds good it's good whatever chain it is. I've had great luck with the K2 into Blue Robbie into Cl1b Hardware and it sounds great, and it's all tube.

If they've ever used the Sony c800g into Fearn VT-1 into Tubetech Cl1b, all those people would take their words back.
Old 16th December 2010
  #54
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Silver Sonya's Avatar
 

Title of this thread is cheaply sensationalistic and out of line.

- c
Old 16th December 2010
  #55
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lpkyer's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BLUElightCory View Post
So much Sweetwater hate!

I've always been truly pleased with the service I've received from my Sweetwater rep - he goes out of his way to hunt down any info I need, returns calls and emails promptly, follows up on his service (even if I don't end up purchasing from him) and is a generally pleasant and non-salesmanlike.

Maybe he's not an engineer, but I am, and I can make decisions about the gear I purchase myself. I've had plenty of engineers recommend me gear that I've hated.

I know that it ultimately comes down to the individual sales rep, maybe I got lucky. But I don't really care how big a company is as long as they treat me well and provide great service, and that's been my experience with Sweetwater (at least with my rep). I've purchased from plenty of smaller vendors (some even on this board) and usually have never even received a follow up call or really felt like my business was valued.

To each his own.
thumbsup
Old 16th December 2010
  #56
Gear Nut
 
SMCrock's Avatar
As far as all this tube on tube action being no good is concerned, I say if it sounds good then it is good.

Sweetwater? Do your research before you buy. Rent something. There is plenty of info available in this information age.
Old 16th December 2010
  #57
Quote:
Originally Posted by warhead View Post
Just a comment in general, doesn't it seem unfair to put "Sweetwater" and "lying" in the title of a thread? I enter the thread and it's clearly an opinion / sales pitch which in all honesty is likely what that rep believes.

Should it even be considered anywhere near a "lie"?

Everybody believes in different things. Yes corporate stores are more likely to steer as they have been given "numbers" as goals but that doesn't mean every time or even this guy.

I think it's dangerous to make such inferences, especially in the TITLE.

Sweetwater is huge, but that doesn't make them dishonest.

War
I see your point. I didn't mean for this to sound like a vicious accusation.
Just a light way of putting it I guess. What I should have said is Is the sweetwater guy giving me advice based on sales/word of mouth or does it sound like he's used this gear personally?

Sweetwater rules. Though I've often wondered if the salesmen actually use enough of the gear, or just hear from other people what it sounds like. Example: I could easily explain the general differences between a Grace m101 and a LA610, though I've never used either.

There's really no way of knowing how honest this advice was, the point is, I wanted to see if anyone had the right answer. Did not mean to bash SW... They've made things easy for me this year.
Old 16th December 2010
  #58
Quote:
Originally Posted by etcd32 View Post
Quit being dicks about Sweetwater, they have treated me just fine and given me quite a few hour long phone conversations on setting things up that I didnt even buy from them. Luke at Sweetwater has only pushed good items to buy on me, and legitimate good buys. I buy most of my miscellaneous gear from them and cables and such. They are one of those companies that went big and doesn't eff the customer, atleast in my opinion. I would say your sales engineer was making his or her personal opinion about the buy, I have had them steer me clear of things I was going to buy before, as well as saying to wait and get a better bang for a buck or buy something that is LESS expensive that does the same thing.

Just my 2 cents, but controversy like this goes a long way when the title is all people read most of the time...
Sorry if the title threw people off.. "Lied to" was intended to sum up the idea that the advice I was given could have potentially been based on price, not quality. I didn't mean this to sound like an accusation. I've had a couple sales jobs, so I'm not afraid to put this frankly. Sometimes, you gotta lie. I'm okay with that, I'm just asking GS if they're used the 610 with the ma200
Old 16th December 2010
  #59
Gear Maniac
 

Just be certain you like the sound of the UA610 before you buy it.
The Solo610 is my only pre, and it really gives my home mixes a cool cohesive-ness(is that a word?), but there are heaps of times I want something else. It sounds exactly how I thought it would, big and round and gooey, but that's about all it can do.

If you do rock, want to mic up voice, guitars and bass di it is a killer piece though. Especially the bass di
Old 16th December 2010
  #60
Lives for gear
 
stagefright13's Avatar
 

Not familiar with the MA200 so no answer there.

Would not hesitate for a moment to put a tube mic into a tube pre. GEEZ.

People think tubes have that distorted high end that is so warm or whatever. That is SO not the case. Warm to me is a desser set to warm thing by smoothing over top end. Tube pre's don't actually do that. They can be as clean as a white dress.

The 610 is not a white dress per say. And slapping a tube mic into it is perfectly alright! But wouldn't be my first choice for snare. But might be just the deal for vocals and then run that to an la2 for more tubes.

And what comes out? Pretty damn clean depending on the gain staging and settings. Not warm as I defined it. But frickin' good. But not my only choice of setup if I only had one.

If ya only have 1 pre do the API thing then add this.

John
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