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Anyone use SAW STUDIO !
Old 17th January 2006
  #1
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paulieg's Avatar
 

Anyone use SAW STUDIO !

hI , I really care about the sound more than anything else. Have not heard this software yet , but I think I'll download the demo I think they have sonething with the sound of this program going . I've used cubase and presently nuendo but I think they are missing something with the way the code or engine might be written . SAW might be what I've been listening for
. Anybody here using this program and please comment on the sound quality!
paulieg
Old 17th January 2006
  #2
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nlc201's Avatar
 

Sounds like a DAW to me. Not great, not horrible. I started using SAW products back in '96 and at that point, they were blowing away things like "Pro Tools" which happened to cost 10x more and did less. It was just amazing to have a 16-track recorder and mixer in my bedroom PC, let alone having the edit capabilities. I was so impressed by the technology (and being a realative newbie), it totally went over my head that it souned like total ass. But in fairness, so did everything else.

Anyway, enough reminiscing. Try it. Bob Lentini the designer has a good forum about it. A good friend of mine is using it all the time but he's more of a hobbyist and I can't really get a handle on its "sound". If you're looking for a much improved sound, upgrade your converters or get a good analog summing system. Or better yet, get a RADAR with a decent console.

IMO, the best "sounding" DAW I've heard is...........Digital Performer. Don't know why.....it just sounds good.
Old 17th January 2006
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paulieg
hI , I really care about the sound more than anything else. Have not heard this software yet , but I think I'll download the demo I think they have sonething with the sound of this program going . I've used cubase and presently nuendo but I think they are missing something with the way the code or engine might be written . SAW might be what I've been listening for
. Anybody here using this program and please comment on the sound quality!
paulieg
I used to use SAW studio years ago, before Bob stopped support for general PC hardware (which has since been lifted.)

I liked everything about it...except the GUI but skins helped that. Man it is smooth and fast and seemless. Realtime (as much as you can in digital/DAW) meters that he spent alot of time on. (Coded in assembly for extra speed). I think it is still amazing but it got too expensive for me when Cubase SX (and others) were catching up for less $$.

The metering in most non SAW software DAWs is still less than perfect but much better and I can deal with it. I dont know the state of the nation of SAW anymore but SX (and others) have all kinds of cool tools now (time stretching, etc) which makes it a good deal. SX (which is the only SW I have spent considerable time on for the last 3 years) still does not seemlessly handle routing changes...meaning if I re-route another non playing audio track I will get total buffer drop out for a second...but that is more of an annoyance. Something SAW never did way back when.

As far as sound. I know this may seem crazy but compared to Nuendo 1.0 (the last time I used SAW) there was definitely a difference in sound using the same HW. SAW was more open sounding. Not that Nuendo 1.0 sounded veiled....it just sounded slightly veiled comparing it to SAW. It was a very eye opening listen.

Dunno how the current versions of each stack up.
(The VST engine was 1.0 then; it is now up to VST2.3)

If you can afford it, get it. It is really a great piece with excellent support...you can talk to the owner/designer directly many times. Very helpful guy too.

Regards,
David
Old 18th August 2009
  #4
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I love Tracktion and have been satisfied but am starting to get issues I can't deal with. Reaper is my current backup at the moment but it still is trying to be everything to everybody.

I don't do a lot of midi, basically just a piano/synth track here and there and predominantly record with mics 99% of the time. What are the benefits and downfalls with SAW. I know it's expensive, but if it's right and works smoothly then it's worth it in the end.

Is SAW still a competitor?
cam
Old 18th August 2009
  #5
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Im confused? I use Nuendo4 and it sounds great. Why would you want to go for a cleaner/clearer sounding program.
I have Samplitude10 which i use for mastering but as for multitracking i find Samp way too clean.

But hey i mix all my individual tracks through a board so im not summing ITB.

If people are saying that one program sounds better {which is true} than another then there probably talking about the internal Summing Stereo Buss.

I love Nuendo because it has a musical harmonic Slightly compressed sound. I can almost make it sound like tape.
I dont get that kind of sound from Samp. Samp sounds too bright and anaemic in comparison.

You want to improve your sound then get OTB because that will make the biggest difference.
Old 18th August 2009
  #6
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camerondye's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibson View Post
Im confused? I use Nuendo4 and it sounds great. Why would you want to go for a cleaner/clearer sounding program.
I have Samplitude10 which i use for mastering but as for multitracking i find Samp way too clean.

But hey i mix all my individual tracks through a board so im not summing ITB.

If people are saying that one program sounds better {which is true} than another then there probably talking about the internal Summing Stereo Buss.

I love Nuendo because it has a musical harmonic Slightly compressed sound. I can almost make it sound like tape.
I dont get that kind of sound from Samp. Samp sounds too bright and anaemic in comparison.

You want to improve your sound then get OTB because that will make the biggest difference.

And your experience with SAW is????
Old 18th August 2009
  #7
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AlphaDingo's Avatar
 

I use SAW and I have a RADAR. SAW is awesome. I liked the sound better than logic, performer, reaper, and samplitude. I would definitely download the demo and play around with it. That should answer all your questions.
Old 18th August 2009
  #8
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Just downloaded the demo and trying it out...somethings I'm just going to have to work out finding how to do.

1. Does it work well with UAD?

2. Can you do 1 or 2 midi tracks without the Midi Workshop? I occasionally use a drum track for scratches and use Ivory VST.


Thanks,
cam
Old 18th August 2009
  #9
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Robert Randolph's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by camerondye View Post
Just downloaded the demo and trying it out...somethings I'm just going to have to work out finding how to do.
Please make sure to check SAWStudio User Forum and ask lots of questions! The initial learning curve is steep, but it flattens out very quick as long as you're not afraid to ask some questions. There's basically 4 basic concepts in saw and once you get those down, the rest of the program is very logically laid out.

Quote:
1. Does it work well with UAD?
Yes

Quote:
2. Can you do 1 or 2 midi tracks without the Midi Workshop? I occasionally use a drum track for scratches and use Ivory VST.
No
Old 19th August 2009
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Randolph View Post
There's basically 4 basic concepts in saw and once you get those down,

Could you tell me the 4 concepts?
cam
Old 23rd August 2009
  #11
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To Camerondye.
I downloaded SAW Demo About a year or so ago and believe me I was trying to work out the program. I got as far as tracking audio but then i think I would not play it back or I couldn't hear it. I tried to check output routing and so on. I had no luck.

Well I love the Nuendo sound and I have Protools and Samplitude here and for many years. I'm obsesed with audio and so I don't use pluginns and never mix ITB.

All my mixes happen on a console with all the best outboard ect.
I have retro ears and I'm not a fan of most of todays mixers and thier approach.
So what I'm trying to say is that to me and the way I work it's nuendo or Studer.

I will try Saw again but I'm not confident that I can get it happening. I don't think it's user friendly but I'm just interesed to hear what the rave is all about in term of Saw's Sound.
Old 23rd August 2009
  #12
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SawStudio: Pretty good program

For how I use the Daw, Sawstudio works fine. It is stable and quick. You can put a tremendous load on it and it stands up like a champ. I have tried a few other daws and sonically I found Saw to be better than the ones I have tried.

The upside:The best customer support I have ever had. Bob Lentini, the developer of SawStudio, had a parameter in the program to control the amount of latency in the input side(if you were using plugins going into the recording chain).

I thought to myself, I would like to use my tape machine like a plugin scratch pad and do all of my tracking to tape and port it automatically to the Daw and have the daw correct the latency between the record and repro head for overdubs(yeah, no rewind). He expanded the values that could be used for latency correction and did this extremely quick for a software company. Wow!!!

The downside: He is a guy that goes to the beat of his own drummer. He does not agree conceptually with the road that most of the Daw companies have gone down from a design perspective. He believes that object orientated program blows for writing a tight daw. With that in mind, when Waves changed their code to connect to their plugins and it is kind of a sloppy way of doing things, he does not like to chase after them. It took me over a couple months to get Waves and him to play nicely with one another. Waves and other big plugin companies feel that Daw makers should follow the beat of their drum. The creator of SawStudio looks at the way certain companies implement things and if it is going to drag the performance of his daw engine down, he is not prone to want to work with their product. Their are other plugs that will work with it. Yep, the plugin makers should make their products easy to install etc, but some of the the big companies don't work that way.
That being said, Saw works with most plugins, but try them out first.

By the way, Bob Lentini's live PA software console SAC is outstanding and quite flexible. EQ, compression, aux feeds on every channel. It can feed the mains and has pretty limitless different console mixer setups to feed as many monitor situations as you can imagine. It also securely grants rights to performers on stage thru tcp/ip the ability to control their own monitor mix thru their own console view. Quite cool.

Another bonus is that Sac can take all of the tracks that you mixing at the front of house position and seamlessly drop them into SawStudio live in real time with or without fx mix changes etc. You can take these multi-tracks back to your studio to mix at a later date. Pretty cool if do lots of live sound.
Old 23rd August 2009
  #13
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Routing in SAW

As long as your soundcard routing is fairly straight forward, then you assign the inputs and outputs once and going forward the SAw console works like a hardware board.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibson View Post
To Camerondye.
I downloaded SAW Demo About a year or so ago and believe me I was trying to work out the program. I got as far as tracking audio but then i think I would not play it back or I couldn't hear it. I tried to check output routing and so on. I had no luck.

Well I love the Nuendo sound and I have Protools and Samplitude here and for many years. I'm obsesed with audio and so I don't use pluginns and never mix ITB.

All my mixes happen on a console with all the best outboard ect.
I have retro ears and I'm not a fan of most of todays mixers and thier approach.
So what I'm trying to say is that to me and the way I work it's nuendo or Studer.

I will try Saw again but I'm not confident that I can get it happening. I don't think it's user friendly but I'm just interesed to hear what the rave is all about in term of Saw's Sound.
Old 23rd August 2009
  #14
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allencollins's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by paulieg View Post
hI , I really care about the sound more than anything else. Have not heard this software yet , but I think I'll download the demo I think they have sonething with the sound of this program going . I've used cubase and presently nuendo but I think they are missing something with the way the code or engine might be written . SAW might be what I've been listening for
. Anybody here using this program and please comment on the sound quality!
paulieg
SAW is great but the interface takes a little getting used to
Old 23rd August 2009
  #15
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AlphaDingo's Avatar
 

If you can't figure out how to get sound out of it you really should call the company or at least put SOME effort into asking someone on one of the forums. Come on. It's not the DAW.
Old 24th August 2009
  #16
Gear Maniac
 

RE: SawStudio

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ollie View Post
The downside: He is a guy that goes to the beat of his own drummer. He does not agree conceptually with the road that most of the Daw companies have gone down from a design perspective. He believes that object orientated program blows for writing a tight daw.
You can say that again.

A while back I downloaded his demo out of curiosity and thought it was very complicated, so I visited the Saw newsgroup for help, and discovered a huge arguement over sample rate conversion.

Saw SRC test results on another website showed inferior SRC, so the developer guy demands the results be taken down and blames the poor results on his users not knowing how to use his program. How difficult can SRC be?

Looking more on the newsgroup there were many requests from users who were looking for simple features available in any DAW and he was scoffing at them for being unneccesary, and suggesting that everyone change their practices to his way.

I looked further and found out his experience is with software for Las Vegas variety shows. That doesn't mean he isn't a good computer programmer, but he doesn't appear to have much experience with software for music production or post production.

~deadears
Old 26th August 2009
  #17
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I think this assumption "he doesn't appear to have much experience with software for music production or post production." is way off the mark. He was one of the early people doing the whole audio on native systems and yes I believe he understands it inside and out. He has chosen to go down a different path then other daw development companies. I will add this fact once again: customer support for the Saw line of products has been exceptional.

Quote:
Originally Posted by deadears View Post
RE: SawStudio



You can say that again.

A while back I downloaded his demo out of curiosity and thought it was very complicated, so I visited the Saw newsgroup for help, and discovered a huge arguement over sample rate conversion.

Saw SRC test results on another website showed inferior SRC, so the developer guy demands the results be taken down and blames the poor results on his users not knowing how to use his program. How difficult can SRC be?

Looking more on the newsgroup there were many requests from users who were looking for simple features available in any DAW and he was scoffing at them for being unneccesary, and suggesting that everyone change their practices to his way.

I looked further and found out his experience is with software for Las Vegas variety shows. That doesn't mean he isn't a good computer programmer, but he doesn't appear to have much experience with software for music production or post production.

~deadears
Old 26th August 2009
  #18
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ollie View Post
I think this assumption "he doesn't appear to have much experience with software for music production or post production." is way off the mark. He was one of the early people doing the whole audio on native systems and yes I believe he understands it inside and out. He has chosen to go down a different path then other daw development companies.
Let me rephrase. When I tried the demo I found it impossible to use. I also thought it was lacking in features everyone uses daily and available in any other software I have, such as fading or muting regions, and looping without long pauses in between the audio. I was told to use automation to fade region edges which is way too much work. Very limited aux sends and returns features, and no submasters. I also could not get a virtual synth to work. There is no metronome. You can't see the grid lines when you are trying to move things around. So to me, it doesn't feel like it was designed by someone who works with music or post production very much in the way most of us do.

I tried hard to make it work because of the comments here about how good it sounded, which I also did not hear. Maybe because I couldn't get it to work so I was frustrated.

Being around a long time doesn't mean it's good. Cool Edit/Audition has also been around a long time, but also not very good for music production or post production. It's designed by radio guys for radio guys who were weaned on it's features, so they are used to it. A different path, as you say.

~deadears
Old 26th August 2009
  #19
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imloggedin's Avatar
 

I found it terrible to use. Not user friendly at all, and sounded no better than any other DAW.
Old 26th August 2009
  #20
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claend's Avatar
 

Sorry guys, but I don't get how a DAW itself can sound different from another one... Have you tried to record the same source witht he same rec chain onto 2 DAWS, then import to one of the DAWs, align both and flip the phase of one?
Old 27th August 2009
  #21
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Robert Randolph's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by claend View Post
Sorry guys, but I don't get how a DAW itself can sound different from another one... Have you tried to record the same source witht he same rec chain onto 2 DAWS, then import to one of the DAWs, align both and flip the phase of one?
Yes. This has been covered with hundreds of thousands of posts.
Old 27th August 2009
  #22
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Good comments

I think some of this is valid criticism based on how you and many others would like to work.

To make a correction: There are submasters. I use them everyday.

Metronome
There is a free metronome plug, but I agree that it should be built in.

Auxes
I am not sure where you see the auxes as limited. I use them as I would use on a physical console and they work fine for me. What you are looking for may be different. Interested in your thoughts of how you use auxes.

Fading or muting regions: He uses automation for this which is different then other daws and may be more cumbersome then other daws.

Virtual synth: many are doing this with no issues.

Grid lines: I never quite got that one either. I would think anything that is a visual aid would be helpful.

I am interested in which daw you use?

Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by deadears View Post
Let me rephrase. When I tried the demo I found it impossible to use. I also thought it was lacking in features everyone uses daily and available in any other software I have, such as fading or muting regions, and looping without long pauses in between the audio. I was told to use automation to fade region edges which is way too much work. Very limited aux sends and returns features, and no submasters. I also could not get a virtual synth to work. There is no metronome. You can't see the grid lines when you are trying to move things around. So to me, it doesn't feel like it was designed by someone who works with music or post production very much in the way most of us do.

I tried hard to make it work because of the comments here about how good it sounded, which I also did not hear. Maybe because I couldn't get it to work so I was frustrated.

Being around a long time doesn't mean it's good. Cool Edit/Audition has also been around a long time, but also not very good for music production or post production. It's designed by radio guys for radio guys who were weaned on it's features, so they are used to it. A different path, as you say.

~deadears
Old 27th August 2009
  #23
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claend's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Randolph View Post
Yes. This has been covered with hundreds of thousands of posts.
Well i've seen maybe dozens on GS, but i decided to try it by myself and the result is NULL (Logic Vs Cubase Vs Pt), what made me think the features and workflow is what is different from one DAW to another, not the sound ... Do you mean SAW is different?

If so, can someone point me to a test, i could be interested in the software.

Cheers
Old 27th August 2009
  #24
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7161's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by deadears View Post
RE: SawStudio



You can say that again.

A while back I downloaded his demo out of curiosity and thought it was very complicated, so I visited the Saw newsgroup for help, and discovered a huge arguement over sample rate conversion.

Saw SRC test results on another website showed inferior SRC, so the developer guy demands the results be taken down and blames the poor results on his users not knowing how to use his program. How difficult can SRC be?

Looking more on the newsgroup there were many requests from users who were looking for simple features available in any DAW and he was scoffing at them for being unneccesary, and suggesting that everyone change their practices to his way.

I looked further and found out his experience is with software for Las Vegas variety shows. That doesn't mean he isn't a good computer programmer, but he doesn't appear to have much experience with software for music production or post production.

~deadears



i also disagree, lentini did it all before anyone

lentini was wacking out a working, efficient 16 stereo track s/w in a 1.5mb .exe file, AND which would work with any combination of soundcards back when everyone else was struggling to get out of the stone age (and his SAW 4-TRACK before that was also superb) - and he had realtime variable audio card latency nailed aand working and perfect smpte sync too - imagine you can raise and lower the latency/buffers in realtime depending what you are doing

what happened was - if you remember back that far - lentini got hammered by the digital audio developer community - they all basicaly ganged up on him over his stance on dithering and spread the idea he was some total nut job

i dont think his company ever recovered from this attack frankly, it was a total hatchet job and VERY nasty indeed.


i think the thing to remember is that he's basicaly coming at this from the angle of delivering a highly stable and efficient multitrack... not an all singing and dancing virtual studio
Old 27th August 2009
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 7161 View Post
i also disagree, lentini did it all before anyone

what happened was - if you remember back that far - lentini got hammered by the digital audio developer community - they all basicaly ganged up on him over his stance on dithering and spread the idea he was some total nut job
I don't know about any of this. My opinion is just my opinion based on the current software. It's difficult to use because simple tasks are very complicated, or not possible at all.

~deadears
Old 27th August 2009
  #26
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ollie View Post
To make a correction: There are submasters. I use them everyday.

Auxes
I am not sure where you see the auxes as limited. I use them as I would use on a physical console and they work fine for me. What you are looking for may be different. Interested in your thoughts of how you use auxes.
I don't want to get into a detailed criticism of the software you are promoting, and I can't look at it now because it isn't on my computer any more.

I remember that the only submasters were also channel outputs and there were restrictions about how you could route things, so it wasn't like real submasters. No submasters within submasters.

There were only a few auxes, and the controls on the returns channels were very limited. You could not send an aux channel to another aux, or back into itself.

You could not turn off or hide any of the channels or output channels you were not using, so the windows were always full of junk you didn't need to see and you had to scroll through it all.

~deadears
Old 27th August 2009
  #27
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Robert Randolph's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by deadears View Post
You could not turn off or hide any of the channels or output channels you were not using, so the windows were always full of junk you didn't need to see and you had to scroll through it all.
No need to scroll. There's many ways to quickly jump to the channel you want, and you can re-order channels however you like (including aux/sub/master). You can even just make a template for whatever you want.
Old 27th August 2009
  #28
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Randolph View Post
No need to scroll. There's many ways to quickly jump to the channel you want, and you can re-order channels however you like (including aux/sub/master). You can even just make a template for whatever you want.
Good to know. I don't doubt there are ways to do things I couldn't figure out.

but I enjoy the ability to only create channels that you need, and hide or delete those you don't need, which is common in most softwares. Keeps things clean and easy.

~deadears
Old 24th October 2009
  #29
SAW is actually pretty cool but it might be hard to understand for someone who grew up with DAW's that started as MIDI sequencers, because SAW has a robust "what you see is what you get" (WYSIWYG) interface that emulates a hardware console.

What this means is that most everything is always active instead of the constant menus of other DAW's. The only other software I can think of off the top of my head that is fairly similar to SAW in design is Propellerheads Reason.
Old 20th January 2011
  #30
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Sawstudio

I have worked with sawstudio... NEVER mind that!!! What difference does it make what daw you use,...... it aint the program it's the person using the program.... i have made 100s of DJ mixtapes, produced bands in both protools and sawstudio..... and i am very proficient in both! PEOPLE... get it through you head..... it does not matter what you use it's how you use it with your creativeness!!!!
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