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You've GOT to be Kidding Me!!!! a PM1000????
Old 5th January 2006
  #1
Lives for gear
 

You've GOT to be Kidding Me!!!! a PM1000????

I have been getting to the point where Gearslutz is more and more irrelavent to me.
I have learned a few things, but I have also been flamed by people who are clueless.
Just insultingly stupid stuff!
Beginers and amatures telling me I don't know what I'm talking about!
I have mixed professionally since 1975!
I'm not stupid!
I know my craft and I have a VERY wide range of audio experience.

Here I am asking mysel why I am wasting my time reading so many opinions from peope who are clueless and then I read a post where people are talking about the virtues of Yamaha PM1000 channel strips as a GREAT recording channel. On guy wants to use one as a summing mixer for his DAW! At one point someone wonders how it compares to a classic Neve or a Chandler piece.

People... this is where I have to possibly leave you.

All older gear is not great.
Some is... PM1000s ARE NOT by any stetch of the imagination.

I can have PM1000 serial #002 FOR FREE if I want to drive two hours to get it.
There is only one reason that it has ANY "value" at all.
It was Led Zepplin's monitor console for the 1977 Led Zepplin world tour.
It was bought by a C&W superstar who is now retired.
It's in a storage shed on his farm.
Don't ask me who it is please.
My friend and I mixed hundreds of shows on this console and the "twin" that was Led Zepplin's F.O.H. console.
The other console was also a 24 channel model and was either serial number 0001 or 0003.
They were owned by Showco.
One ended up cycling through several rock clubs in the early '80s and the other was bought by the C&W guy.

If I showed up to mix a live event and they had a PM1000 I be on the phone asking for a Mackie (ANY Mackie!) so quick it wouldn't be funny.
I would be stunned beyond belief.
If you asked me to record or mix multitrack through one... I have no words here.

A PM2000 was better, but it lacked a lot.
It looked better.
They mostly were famous for self destructing while in a road case being trucked down the road.
By the time that PM3000 came along they were beginning to get useful, but they still had a "Yamaha" sound that was bothersome.
You couldn't get rid of the coloration on the snare... BAD 500hz ringing!!!!
A PM4000 gets close to acceptabe and I don't bitch when I see one.
The distance between an analog Yamaha and a digital Yamaha is huge!
I couldn't EVER imagine mixing on a Yamaha analog console, but I did once at an 8 track studio.
They promptly sold it (it was a cheap early '80s model) and bought a VERY used MCI 500C.

Stuff like this makes discussions about "good" and "bad" gear absolutely meaningless!

Fletcher.... you KNOW better! (I hope!)
Any of you older guys who have used these piles of dog squat know, too.

Cut out the crap!
If a "professional" even uttered the words about the "virtues" of a PM1000 any seasoned engineer would imdedeatly think the guy was a complete fool.

People, don't belive crap like this, please?

Then again, I'll have fun calling people all day tomorrow and telling them this story!

Sorry, to hurt any feelings and sound like I'm running anyone down, but there becomes a point where things get REAL stupid. This is WAY beyond that point!

Danny Brown
Old 5th January 2006
  #2
Gear Maniac
 
Bolt Thrower's Avatar
 

Ouch... I guess that's directed at me. FWIW, I also have a Chandler TG-2.....

Nobody pays me to be an audio engineer (for anything other than voiceovers and really basic stuff) and I have no illusions about my skills. Clearly I suck, especially when compared to old experienced guys who know what's up. But, I still feel good about my purchase.

Also, is it possible you worked with a PM-1000 that had a bad cap or some sort of failing component? There seems to be quite a lot of evidence from people who really like these units. Is that so awful a thought?

From a different perspective, if you're comparing this device to truly professional gear costing tens or hundreds of thousands, is your hostility really warranted? I should think your beef would be with plugins and the general avoidance of any and all real equipment.

Also, weren't the 80s Yamaha mixers very different? Lots of ICs and generally weaker sonics?
Old 5th January 2006 | Show parent
  #3
Lives for gear
 
Matthew Murray's Avatar
Why get so worked up about it?
Old 5th January 2006 | Show parent
  #4
Lives for gear
 

BOLT THROWER

Listen, I am the nicest guy there is.
I'd give advice and help anyone who asked for it.
I love audio and am extremely passionate about it.
I make my living and support a family with it.
I have nothing but good intentions.
I'm not putting you down.

Don't EVEN consider wasting you time mixing through that piece of dog crap!
I dislike using DAW mixers (and I've done it since 1993!!!) but I'd NEVER use a PM1000.
There is great older stuff, but that was BAD BAD BAD time for live consoles.

maybe.... MAYBE if you want a really colored and NASTY NASTY NASTY mic pre and EQ you could use it to record through, but you could use a BOSS distortion pedal, too.
There is so much awfull stuff you can use like the mic pres in a boombox, but there is no way that you can tell me that you would put the PM1000 in the Chandler universe!

I like funky gear myslef.
I have racked up Spheres and discreet UAs that even the Putnam boys don't know of.
I am also in the middle of building a summing mixer using QuadEight summing amps and line amps with a bit of assistance from Dave Geren who designed QuadEight's summing buss.

You can buy Sphere mic pres and EQs that are stellar for Less than $500 per channel (mic pre and EQ) and they stand up to Neve 1073 ans smoke APIs in my opinion.

Just don't put magic where there is none.

I know that this post will get people all stirred up, but there has to be a point where the hype stops.

The idea that there are no rules and that rules are made to be broken is the realm of clueless idiots!

I realize that the PM1000s and parts are cheap, but there is a reason.
No one wants them.
I suspect that someone with one to sell started the hype.

My friend has an early TAC console and he asked me about selling the modules.
I said that no one wold want them and he said, "Couldn't we hype them and get interest in them started?"

Dude, Please!

Danny Brown
(note that I post my actual name)
Old 5th January 2006 | Show parent
  #5
Here for the gear
 

Are those Sphere mic pres available anywhere?
I have never heard of them.
Old 5th January 2006 | Show parent
  #6
Lives for gear
Bolt Thrower,
Try not to get discouraged b/c some dude ripped a stinky on a Gearslutz forum. Do whatever you want. If you're excited about your new board then killer. Everyone starts out on something. Hell I started on a Mackie 1604VLZ-Pro. And it sure as hell didn't live up to the Pro part. But it made 1 cool CD that alot of people liked. Alot meaning around 1000. So what, it's fun and I enjoy doing it. If I didn't have a Mackie to abuse I probably would have blown up my new mixer by now. Oh, and you'll probably get waaay better sounds out of your Yamaha then I did out of my Mackie.
Lates - Matt
P.S. I still have the Mackie. It's not useless. I use it for headphone mixes at my brothers studio.
Old 5th January 2006 | Show parent
  #7
Gear Addict
 
wilcofan's Avatar
I owned a PM-1000 and the only reason I sold it was I don't have the D/A outs anymore to feed it and it needed recapping. It was getting big for my little space too.

I disagree about the quality, it was a nice sounding board. I A/B'd mixes once to a client ITB and mixed on it and it was easy to pick the PM1000.

It's limited in features and the EQ is not as nice as the line amp but it's got headroom and vibe.

I've mixed on everything from Mackie and Yamaha first generation digital crap, Soundcraft and MCI in the middle, up to a 16 channel Neve with 1272's.

I put the PM1000 above the MCI and Soundcraft but below the Neve.

I would never call it a Neve but in the grand scheme of project studios I understand why it's mentioned often. Just open one up and look at the parts. It was NOT a cheaply made unit.
Old 5th January 2006 | Show parent
  #8
Here for the gear
 

But that doesn't mean it sounds good. Don't take that the wrong way. I never heard one and have no idea if they sound good or bad.
Old 5th January 2006 | Show parent
  #9
Lives for gear
 

People this is comparing what I consider one of the worst consoles I have ever used to one of the best modules around.

This is just ******** talk!

Next I'll start hearing how good Tangent mixers are!

You have to be smarter than this!

I suspect that the only reason that people yank these crap ass modules out and rack them is because they are individual channel strips.
If they were in panels of say eight channels I doubt anyone would use them.

I'm going to inquire into the un-used I know of when I get time.
I'll sell modules from it.
Hell, I'll make them ready to use with a power supply and a direct out for $500 each!
there is a possibility that the console went to the dump, too!

About Mackie stuff:

Ten years ago I did a CD for a Goth band on a Mackie 1604 and a TASCAM 80-8.
I tracked the drums on a Sphere and an MCI JH-24 and mixed them to two tracks on the 80-8 on a Neve 8128.
Still, it got rave reviews in Europe.
They are all over the web.

I did it this way because the guys were paying me $4K to record/produce their Eoropean label CD and they were happy doing it my house where I had a borrowed 80-8.
I was able to slide into the studio I worked at to track and mix on a Sunday for free.
I did use a WaveFrame 1000 to assemble the parts because on 8-track you can't mix very complicated stuff straight through.
I worked in sections.
Some tracks had GTRs at one point and maybe KYBDs later and possible BG parts later on.
You couldn't mix it straight through, but I rarely did in analog anyways.

I wouldn't have attempted to mix it on a PM1000 or ANY Yamaha analog console.

Danny Broen
Old 5th January 2006 | Show parent
  #10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Murray
Why get so worked up about it?
Possibly because there is so much misinformation and uninformed opinion being passed around from one inexperienced, uninformed soul to another as though it were the truth handed down to Moses.

This is probably my favorite audio forum and there are some real legends who are generous -- and tolerant -- enough to spend some time with us Philistines (to drag on the Biblical analogies for no good reason)... but it gives me great pain to see the real thing lost in a flood of people passing around other folks' opinions without testing them -- or even thinking them through.


And -- I gotta tell ya people -- the level of understanding of digital audio by a lot of people out there giving their opinions to anyone who asked and most who didn't is beyond woeful. Some of you people just plain don't know s---. No offense.
Old 5th January 2006 | Show parent
  #11
Lives for gear
Yeah well, anybody could do that. Try using JUST THE MACKIE and a computer instead. Take away the tape, the sphere, the Neve and the studio and see if the project turns out the same. Anybody can plug a Sphere or a Neve up to a Mackie and have it sound fine. As a matter of fact, alot of people do just that. And the setup would work with a Yamaha just as well. "yeah, I had a Mackie and plugged up a Neve, API, Shadow Hill, Pacifica, Chandler, and a OSA to it and surprisingly it sounded OK......then I tried it with a PM-1000 and it sucked". I don't really see your point. You still mixed the project on a Neve. Were you trying to say Mackie is OK. If you were you didn't prove your point. You didn't mix the project on the Mackie. "I'm the nicest guy there is" was your quote. Be that then if you proclaim it. Don't call people "insultingly stupid". I mean you're insultingly arrogant. That's just as bad. I hate to point things like that out to people. Anyways, I'm done so don't expect anything more from me on this rediculous thread. What a waste of time.
Old 5th January 2006 | Show parent
  #12
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dbbubba
Next I'll start hearing how good Tangent mixers are!

LOL...yeah I'm on Danny's side on this issue. Lot's of crap getting magic status. I don't subscribe to elevating mediocrity as a standard. It's possible to record with allmost anything of course, but to seek it out out on purpose other than for economic reasons would not be my choice.

Hey Jim Williams,

Speaking of Tangents..remember the one @ Harlequin (later PowerHouse) in Northridge...ahh the Stillman brothers. Brings back memories.
Old 5th January 2006 | Show parent
  #13
Gear Head
 
shady656's Avatar
 

Regardless of what you've recorded on or not, what famous people you've recorded, etc.....
It's my opinion that arguing what sounds is absolutely assinine! We all understand gear hierarchy, but to get offended by an opinion?
It's like starting a thread criticizing a guuy who likes tuna sandwiches, and arguing that tunafish sucks and LOBSTER is the real seafood he should like......
WTF?
Old 5th January 2006 | Show parent
  #14
Quote:
Originally Posted by shady656
It's like starting a thread criticizing a guuy who likes tuna sandwiches, and arguing that tunafish sucks and LOBSTER is the real seafood he should like......
WTF?
OTOH the person would be absolutely correct!
heh
Old 5th January 2006 | Show parent
  #15
Lives for gear
 

Re-read my post.
Only the drums were recorded through the Spheres and mixed on the Neve.
The drums were mixed to a DAT and I took the DAT home and transferred it to the 80-8.
The rest of the ODs were done on the 80-8 and it was all was all mixed on a Mackie 1604.
I also mixed in sections and re-assembled the sections on the WaverRame1000.
I guess it all was too complicated to explain?

I'm just making the point that it a Mackie isn't that bad.

In fact, the Mackie 1604 was quite a revolution when it came out.
The 8 buss Mackies were quite a revolution, too.
They beat comparably priced TASCAMs to death!

I don't use either any longer.

Danny Brown
Old 5th January 2006 | Show parent
  #16
Gear Head
 
shady656's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by everybody's x
OTOH the person would be absolutely correct!
heh

yeah...he would....ha!
Old 5th January 2006 | Show parent
  #17
Lives for gear
 
Telecastr's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dbbubba
People this is comparing what I consider one of the worst consoles I have ever used to one of the best modules around.

About Mackie stuff:

Ten years ago I did a CD for a Goth band on a Mackie 1604 and a TASCAM 80-8.
I tracked the drums on a Sphere and an MCI JH-24 and mixed them to two tracks on the 80-8 on a Neve 8128.
Still, it got rave reviews in Europe.
They are all over the web.


Danny Broen

Hey Danny,
I hate to bring this up, but in your gear snobbery you mention that you mixed on a Neve 8128...Now correct me if I'm wrong (and I'm not) but that is the least desirable Neve console ever built. I know someone who owns one, and he's made lots of great albums on it, so I'm not going to bash you for using it. IMO, the worst Neve is still going to sound better than many other company's best console. You're pulling out the Neve word to try and act superior as if you use the best stuff out there. If you were talking about using an 80 series Neve it would be a whole different story. If people like the PM1000 let them use it, it's still much better than a Mackie or Tascam.
Old 5th January 2006
  #18
Gear Maniac
 
midigod's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dbbubba
I have been getting to the point where Gearslutz is more and more irrelavent to me.
I have learned a few things, but I have also been flamed by people who are clueless.
Just insultingly stupid stuff!
Beginers and amatures telling me I don't know what I'm talking about!
I have mixed professionally since 1975!
I'm not stupid!
I know my craft and I have a VERY wide range of audio experience.
Despite Bolt Thrower's ownership, I'm quite certain you're referring to me in your new thread.

dbubba, you don't know me, and you have no idea how much experience I have. It turns out I've been mixing professionally for 31 years, just like you, doing all sorts of tasks, just like you.

I have to ask if you really think my last post to you was a flame. If that's the post you're referring to, then you need to read it again. That was nowhere near a flame, in fact I tried to couch the entire statement in a touchy-feely way.

Sorry if I offended your sensibilities, but I think you need to step back and look at this whole thing again later.

I stated what, according to the posts, was fact. Fletcher says he owns the modules and likes them. r0ck1r0ck2 stated that he owns them too, and loves them. You, the most vocall proponent of their crappiness, have not used them in many, many years.

i know you think it's impossible thatFletcher like them, but he said
Quote:
The pre's in the early Yamaha stuff were quite good. They present a challenge to many who don't have a firm grasp of signal flow and have been disposed of for very reasonable prices... this doesn't change the fact that they are excellent sounding machines.
So we have a disagreement. Great. That's nothing to get worked up about. I didn't insult your experience, or even your talent, though you insulted me on both counts, without even knowing me. What I insinuated, and what I stand by, was that people who are using them RIGHT NOW have a different opinion than someone who hasn't used them in THIRTY YEARS, and that those facts should be taken into account.

I'm a sensitive person, and I get offended and pissed when people insult me on message boards. So I understand where you're coming from. But you have not been flamed in the PM1000 thread, by anyone. I still love you like a brother, but I'm done with this thread.

-Craig Patterson
PME Records
Scratching out a living since 1974
Old 5th January 2006 | Show parent
  #19
Lives for gear
 
Sugarnutz's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams
Spectrasonics, that's another story altogether. 200 k bandwidth and 10 k square waves pass. I'm in love.
Back in the early 80's I had a 20 input/8 buss Spectrasonics 400 series mated to a Scully 280 (not B) 2" 16 trk that made some pretty meaty records. I also had a pair of Spectrasonics 610 comp/limiters which a lot of people swear by on snare, but I used them for bass a lot which was not recomended. My house bass player who had been with me for a while by then and had become a "A List" session player in Nashvile remarked that even though the sound I got on his bass was not the absolute "Best" he had ever heard, it was damn close and only took me a few minutes to get up, where as others took considerably longer to get there and might not make it. All the things we use here as far as gear are just tools and some people have the ability to get the most out of what tools they have at their disposal through practice and not whining about what tools we don't have (I have been guilty of the "Whine" part myself, but hopefuly I have learned with age). I am getting to the point in my life where that I can buy a "Vintage" Neve or API console if I want to, but my thinking is that I would rather get something more reasonably priced that I feel I can learn to use and stick the rest of my money in a mutual fund. I just want to have fun and make records.
Old 5th January 2006 | Show parent
  #20
People are getting a couple things bollixed up a bit, here, I think.


It's one thing to say you like a piece of characterful gear. No one can argue with that. And, for you, for your purposes, it may well work great.

But it's a whole 'nother thing to suggest an equivalency between a characterful but (perhaps inarguably) flawed piece of gear and an established classic -- and I think that's the kind of thing that's got a few people going around here.

But I think the thing that's really on a few minds (my own, to be sure) is how poorly qualified opinions are frequently passed around here (and elsewhere) by folks without, shall we say, a deep bed of experience with a wide range of gear, passed around without testing and often without even a thorough think-through and without proper qualifications to the opinions expressed (and by "qualifications" here I don't mean the writer's qualifications but qualifications upon the opinion, ie, "a great mic pre for $200" or "the best board ever from a fly-by-night German outsourcer"... heh Or here's a really important qualifier: "...I've never used one but..." )



Seriously, though, before you pass along an opinion as fact, think about whether or not you really know it to be true -- or if it's something you just heard someplace -- or everyplace, for that matter... in a field like this which has expanded so very rapidly, we have well exceeded the critical mass where most folks really don't know why they do what they do or have sufficient real experience to back up their frequently expressed opinions.
Old 5th January 2006
  #21
Gear Maniac
 

If it looks like the truth, smells like the truth, and reads like the truth, it probably is.

Thanks for the common sense and myth debunking dbbubba.
Old 5th January 2006 | Show parent
  #22
Lives for gear
 

Number one... I know that an 8128 isn't the best Neve ever made. I've spent as much time sitting at an 8068mkII as well! In fact, they were in the same building! I know the difference, but guess what hoss... one of those "worst Neves made" an 8218, was used to mix Santana's CD with "Smooth" on it! I believe it won a FEW Grammies didn't it? .It was for sale on eBay shortly afterwards and I think that it sold for around $30K.

My friend bought the one I used DAILEY for four years against my reccomendations and drug it out to Hollywood and I flew out there a few times helped and him get it running.
He finally realized that it was not worth the effort and sold it.
It's in Santa Barbara now I think.
I could have bought it when he did for $10K!
I bought the Sphere instead.

I wasn't throwing the Neve name around for snobbery.
I was saying that I used a Mackie 1604 to mix a CD on a budget and it got great reviews.
I was being honest and saying that I did actually record the drums on the Sphere and mix on the Neve.
My point was that a Mackie is better than a PM1000 in my view.
Mackies aren't old enough ye I guess, but you wait... they will get the nostalgic nod eventually!

I'll tell you this though.
I do know that a PM1000 module doesn't even get close to the worst Neve ever built.
It DEFINITELY doesn't equal a Neve 1272 or a 1073.

AND... I DO know what a piece of gear that I used 19 years ago sounded like!

If PM1000s are "great machines" then why do engineers (like myslef) who DO have a firm grasp of signal flow not still use them and haven't for NINETEEN YEARS? ****, they're cheap! Why buy a Midas if they are so good?

You don't know me and you don't know what I do or don't know.
Don't second guess me!

The appeal of the PM1000 module is that you can buy them for cheap on eBay!
Don't tell me that they equal a Neve or a Brent Avrill 1272.
I'm not that naieve!

I was also just telling the guy not to expect much if he mixes through it.


Danny Brown
Old 5th January 2006 | Show parent
  #23
Lives for gear
 
Matthew Murray's Avatar
It seems to me there's just a bit too much snobbery happening here, that's all. I wasn't suggesting that Danny didn't have a point -- I was commenting on the way he was making that point. Calling people ********, stupid, unknowledgeable -- it's a pretty blatent attempt to position one's self as superior to another.

If there's misinformation, correct it. But Christ, show some bloody respect! Though some of us are not as wise or experienced as many of you (myself certainly included), we all started as ignorant fools. Even you, Danny.

Prove your wisdom and stop bullying the less knowledgeable. Be the bigger man, you know?

Meh, I'm too new here, I should likely stay out of it, and may end up getting bashed for sticking my neck where it supposedly doesn't belong. It just bothers me. The snobbery shouldn't exist ... it in no way earns you the respect that your experience dictates you should naturally deserve.
Old 5th January 2006 | Show parent
  #24
No, you're probably right that we should all try to be civil and polite. Collegial is a term I kind of like...

Which is not to say that I think Danny's out of line -- but he's clearly frustrated and venting. That said, I think there are more than a few of us who find themselves at least a little sympathetic with that frustration...

On the elitism thing, I didn't take it that way. He's not saying (I don't think) that you can't use one and that it might not work for you. He's saying (I think) please be careful how you (not you, but any of us) compare such and such a piece of gear to such and such a piece of gear.

I may be going way out on a limb here, but I interpretted Danny's sidebar about the Mackie board as a possibly two-pronged statement. One, that professional level results are indeed possible on modest gear. And (maybe out on the limb here), two, that Mackie is a brand that is widely dissed on this BB, yet which is capable of professional results.


Anyway, my prescription (like anyone asked heh ) is that we all just be a little more careful when we're expressing our opinions -- or those of someone else (ahem) -- in this and other forums and using proper qualifiers like, "I've only used one of those a couple times... " or "I own and use one of those every day... " or "My buddy heard someone say that those are... "

Old 5th January 2006 | Show parent
  #25
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sleepwalker's Avatar
 

I traded a $300 guitar amp for a 32 channel PM-1000. It sounded rad. At least compared to Cubase VST/32's mixer that I was using. You could drive the input on the pre to distortion, but I thought it was a pleasant distortion for screamers and other aggressive singing.

My friends helped me move it once, then I had to move again. Well.. it's just too heavy, so I parted it out on ebay for $60 a channel.

If I could move it myself I'd still have it.

It's a great mixer for tracking and mixing rock. The EQ sounded good, but was so limited it was basically useless.

For $300-600, I don't think there's a better mixer out there.

I know where you're coming from though. 70's strats are going for $1500. A lot of those guitars can't hold a tune and sound weak.They're commanding money merely because they're old.

Quote:
Originally Posted by theblue1
No, you're probably right that we should all try to be civil and polite. Collegial is a term I kind of like...

Which is not to say that I think Danny's out of line -- but he's clearly frustrated and venting. That said, I think there are more than a few of us who find themselves at least a little sympathetic with that frustration...

On the elitism thing, I didn't take it that way. He's not saying (I don't think) that you can't use one and that it might not work for you. He's saying (I think) please be careful how you (not you, but any of us) compare such and such a piece of gear to such and such a piece of gear.

I may be going way out on a limb here, but I interpretted Danny's sidebar about the Mackie board as a possibly two-pronged statement. One, that professional level results are indeed possible on modest gear. And (maybe out on the limb here), two, that Mackie is a brand that is widely dissed on this BB, yet which is capable of professional results.


Anyway, my prescription (like anyone asked heh ) is that we all just be a little more careful when we're expressing our opinions -- or those of someone else (ahem) -- in this and other forums and using proper qualifiers like, "I've only used one of those a couple times... " or "I own and use one of those every day... " or "My buddy heard someone say that those are... "

Old 5th January 2006
  #26
Gear Head
 
mucho's Avatar
 

It seems like a few of you have a build-up of steam to let off! maybe you should focus on positive things instead of crying about the misinformed opinions of others. You could learn to do what I do- I read the threads, take with me what I want, and leave the rest. Sometimes I have a question, sometimes I can give my opinion. To tell people that they must be totaly versed on a piece of equipment before they give their opinion is rediculous. That would knock down the forum population to 10%! One person enjoying a piece of gear for their first few months of recording personal projects shouldn't be allowed to say that it sounds good to them? What should the cut off be? Maybe we should all have to take a test to be able to post? Give me a break! It is what it is. I use my brain when I read posts- I would never be fool enough to tell people how to use thier brains when they write them! I will now opt out of telling you my signal chain, the projects I have worked on, and how good I am at what I do- we have had enough of that on this thread already. Bolt Thrower, or whoever else has and enjoys the PM1000, don't let these people change what you're doing.
Old 5th January 2006 | Show parent
  #27
Lowdbrent
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by wilcofan
I owned a PM-1000 and the only reason I sold it was I don't have the D/A outs anymore to feed it and it needed recapping. It was getting big for my little space too.

I disagree about the quality, it was a nice sounding board. I A/B'd mixes once to a client ITB and mixed on it and it was easy to pick the PM1000.

It's limited in features and the EQ is not as nice as the line amp but it's got headroom and vibe.

I've mixed on everything from Mackie and Yamaha first generation digital crap, Soundcraft and MCI in the middle, up to a 16 channel Neve with 1272's.

I put the PM1000 above the MCI and Soundcraft but below the Neve.

I would never call it a Neve but in the grand scheme of project studios I understand why it's mentioned often. Just open one up and look at the parts. It was NOT a cheaply made unit.

I am not being cocky, but can anyone ever compare mixes between analog and digital in all fairness? To exteremly different paths.
Old 5th January 2006 | Show parent
  #28
Lives for gear
 
bunnerabb's Avatar
I mixed on one of those for a bit in the .. what.. late '70's? Early '80s? It was mostly live stuff. I found the pres sort of brittle and s*****.. This was a new console and the caps were nice and .. cappy. Wasn't that.

You could, hoosomever, push the crap out of them and they got better.

At low gain they sound like p0o.
Old 6th January 2006 | Show parent
  #29
Gear Maniac
 
Bolt Thrower's Avatar
 

Thanks all for the supportive comments. I'm sure lots of happy PM-1000 users are out there. I will be forging doom-metal and blackmetal on this console, and I think it will be a good fit with my studio.

Just today I was speaking with a professional engineer who has worked on famous projects, and he swears up and down that the next step up in sonics is at the $10,000 level. The real weakness in the design being that the channels lack inserts and cannot, in practical terms, have them because of the additional gain stage that would be required. He also believes this unit has excellent summing capability, and takes mods extremely well. Maybe he's wrong; maybe he's not.

It's also true that old gear is not good just because it's old. There does, however, seem to be the feeling among some analog designers that solid-state engineering advanced by leaps and bounds in the 70s. In addition, companies back then simply could not cut costs as effectively as they can now. As said above, one look inside these units shows they were not built to be super cheap, Walmart-style products. Nor were they these homogenized microchip designs.

From my perspective, the PM-1000 really does seem to be a gem amongst a lineup of mediocre analog mixers from Yamaha. I'll never try enough of them to be able to say this from first-hand experience, but I do enjoy my research.

I would just like to add that it's a bit strange how Mr. Brown talks all this smack on the PM-1000, and said that he would never be so "evil" as to part one out. Not much later, a different tune is sung where each channel shall be sold for $500 (including a power supply and direct out mod, which means $50 or whatever in additional parts plus a few hours' time). Sounds like a real moneymaker! The actual dollar amount aside, there was also the comment about how apparently easy he finds it to hype the reputations of used gear.

(I suspect Fletcher does indeed know better, and probably smirked to himself at such tactics.)

Therefore I can't help wondering if all this forum trollery is really just a canard to further manipulate the gear's value. Talk a bunch of sh1t, rile up the true believers, and then start parting out the mixer when support and interest is really peaking. And if, as he said, he really is a partner in a warehouse full of great old gear waiting to be sold -- well, that does support the idea of "following the money" to divine true intentions. As someone wise once said, the apple falls not far from the tree.

BTW: Disagreement is welcome; mean people suck.
Old 6th January 2006 | Show parent
  #30
Gear Addict
 
wilcofan's Avatar
Quote:
But that doesn't mean it sounds good. Don't take that the wrong way. I never heard one and have no idea if they sound good or bad.
About the parts quality? I don't take that the wrong way. I wouldn't make a defense of the PM1000 on it's build, only an observation.

Quote:
People this is comparing what I consider one of the worst consoles I have ever used to one of the best modules around.

This is just ******** talk!
I don't compare it to a Neve, I put it in a list in my order of preference below a Neve in mixing experience. That doesn't make a Neve or Neve-ish.

But to be fair and correct in my comparison, all other mixers I've used I had to rely on the EQ entirely. With the PM-1000 I barely touched it using it basically as a glorified summing amp.

If I had to mix with the EQ alone on the PM1000 I'd pull my hair out.

I stand by it as a board with headroom which responds to being pushed. What's wrong with that? Does it have to be everything to all people?
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