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LANOIS/ENO treatments & gear: question for thethrillfactor and gearslutz
Old 17th November 2006
  #31
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Barilla's Avatar
 

Alex, I'm not sure that even with a bunch of effects you would be firmly in VCS3 territory. The phrase 'the whole is greater than the sum of it's parts' was probably coined for the VCS. You could do similar things with a fully modular synth, but it still wouldn't sound the same.

By it's very nature, the VCS is a bit of a unique one. It's chaotic. You stick a pin in to connect two modules together and whatever you were trying to modulate can change erratically! I don't really know where else you would find a 'trapezoid' envelope, either.

You can still get VCS3's, either re-conditioned or you could buy one directly from EMS - they still make them! The downside to that is there is a waiting list, quite possibly years long (so I've heard) and the prices on the website are hopelessly out of date...
Old 17th November 2006
  #32
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is it Doepfer who's doing a semi modular suitcase synth called Vostok? It seems to have the same architecture as the VCS3 including the pin matrix...
The VCS3 looks cool and offer some crazy modulation possibilities but there's lots of synths out there at a fraction of the price and which can inspire you too...Now that the techno craze is dead and the kids are using virtual synths you can find some bargains on ebay... If you love Eno and love experimenting with synth, you should buy yourself an FM synth (DX, TX...) hours of fun guaranteed...And now you don't need a Phd to program it thanks to midi editor like midiquest.
I don't want to sound patronizing but you don't NEED a VCS3/ Eventide/ etc... i think the essence of Eno's music is about experimenting...just try stuff...a £5 broken phaser pedal, a £50 synth or yes a £2000 modular if YOU like it....Not because of the hype.
Old 17th November 2006
  #33
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For Eno it is about Process not equipment.

Bloody Art school types
Old 17th November 2006
  #34
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Big fan of both of these guys myself.

Actually made a record with Brian and his brother Roger at a studio I used to work as in-house engineer. Yes, I was being lucky & my way of working/'using studio as instrument' changed then. He would want 6 separate fx processors with their own sends/returns which he then blended together by feeding them back to each other, etc creating a layer/canvas of treatments. He really got me into programming H3000. Ofcourse he also brought a bunch of dx7s & prophet vs to a session. Apparently some enthusiast bought his EMS for £20k. I would say his approach is all to do with experimenting, vision & trying to rely on 'organised' random(=os)& accidents. Well, isn't it the same with all the greats?

Not bad: first 2 Roxy lps, 'Low' & 'Heroes', Talking Heads he produced, best of his solo stuff, collaboration with Fripp, some U2, etc. Btw love that Bob Dylan album Lanois produced!


Antti
Old 17th November 2006
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baikonour View Post
I don't want to sound patronizing but you don't NEED a VCS3/ Eventide/ etc... i think the essence of Eno's music is about experimenting...just try stuff...a £5 broken phaser pedal, a £50 synth or yes a £2000 modular if YOU like it....Not because of the hype.
I agree, Baikonour. I was being specific about the VCS because Alex was asking specifically about the VCS 'sound' (or at least I thought he was), which is very unique in it's sound, in the same way that a Minimoog is unique (and has a different tonal quality to an Arp, for example). That's what I was referring to. The Vostok has a similar approach (with the patch matrix etc) but it doesn't sound like an EMS - this is what Vostok say on their website:

"It also has a totally different sound and uses different circuitry. The Vostok is not a Synthi and not intended to be or sound like one. It is an independent synthesiser in it's own right!"

First and foremost, Eno's music IS definitely about experimentation, regardless of the gear used. I totally agree with that. I once heard a story about him being locked away in a primitive studio without any means of a metronome, so he recorded his clock ticking. Now that is a fine piece of lateral thinking. I wish I could think like that. thumbsup

I remember someone asking me about a sound on one of my records and they refused to believe me when I told them it was a cheap Casio PT-30 keyboard (which I got for Xmas in 1984 or something). That's maybe not on Eno proportions, but I was fascinated by the fact I could pull the wool over someone's eyes into thinking I'd used a complex synth, when really it was the Casio with a bit of flange on it, or something.

By the way - I have a Baikonour record, don't know if you're the same Baikonour but it's a damn good record nonetheless.
Old 17th November 2006
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juicylime View Post
A guy I know did some work for U2 alongside Lanois and Eno here in Dublin. I used to lap up every snippet of the stories he told about them. One thing I remember was that apparently Eno came in one day excited like a kid on xmas morning because he found some new multi FX unit he loved and brought one each in for himself, Lanois and the dude I know. It was a Zoom 1204!
I don't blame him for getting excited. They are cool little units!

Another piece of equipment that has been a big favourite with Eno in recent years are the Korg Kaos pads. He loves these things to bits and has a bunch of them. I seem to remember him saying they are his new favourite toy. The good thing about these is that they are current and therefore easy to find and pretty cheap too!

Eno's oft stated favourite piece of gear ever though is the Yamaha DX7. He's a monster programmer on that thing and uses it on practically every record. His use of fx is wonderful but a lot of the sound really comes from the fact that he programs a huge amount of material from scratch on this synth. You could get NI's FM7 (software version of the DX7) and start from there!!
Old 19th November 2006
  #37
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Some really great info here!

What about the ZOOM 1204 was cool? When I think of ZOOM products, I think most I have heard were pretty bad and goofy. What sound or patches were cool in this box that ENO may have been loving?

Also,

"He would want 6 separate fx processors with their own sends/returns which he then blended together by feeding them back to each other, etc creating a layer/canvas of treatments. He really got me into programming H3000."

What kind of H3000 programming? Did Eno go into "expert" mode in the Eventide right down to adjusting the 8 or 16 individual delays that would make up reverb and plex algorithms or would he stay closer to the surface of more general parameters and just tweak existing algorithms? What kind of effects did he mostly use the Eventide for?? Detuning and pitch shifting that it seems to be the best at or did he use it for other effects?

When hooking 6 different effects up to console sends and fader returns, what 6 effects processors would get hooked up to the sends and were all the sends feeding a single processor or were some of the processors stereo input using up two of the six sends?

Love to know some details!!

Thanks
Old 20th November 2006
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by creegstor View Post

You could get NI's FM7 (software version of the DX7) and start from there!!
Actually, Eno has used the FM7 himself recently for his Bells record (which was a pretty amazing record).

Santiago
Old 20th November 2006
  #39
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Hi Barilla. Don't get me wrong I'd love to have a synthi and yes it can produce some scary sounds (I remember seing Sonic Boom a few years ago in Brighton and he used 2 or 3 VCS and...his **** was wild indeed.
As you say some are really idiosyncratic like a minimoog but also a cheap casio or a yamaha can produce some equally interesting sound it's all a question of how you're going to use it and in what context but I'm sure we agree on this!

Maybe you were thinking about this album I've released last year?
http://www.last.fm/music/Baikonour/F...+Of+The+Cosmos
Old 20th November 2006
  #40
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Barilla's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by baikonour View Post
Maybe you were thinking about this album I've released last year?
http://www.last.fm/music/Baikonour/F...+Of+The+Cosmos
We certainly do agree.

And, no! It's not that record. The one I have is a double-feature 12" you did with Topo Gigio.

(which, annoyingly, I've misfiled in the past few weeks and subsequently can't find the bloody thing now).
Old 20th November 2006
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barilla View Post
We certainly do agree.

And, no! It's not that record. The one I have is a double-feature 12" you did with Topo Gigio.
Oh ****...that was my first ever record, released about 6 years ago...
I'm working on album #2 at the moment....
Old 20th November 2006
  #42
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Really that long ago... crikey, I feel old now.

Anyway, some good stuff on there. What kit were you using then as opposed to now, if I may ask?

Sorry to the other posters for going slightly OT, but it's not completely unrelated if we're talking about studio experimentation and techniques, is it? heh

Sorry.
Old 20th November 2006
  #43
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At the time of my 1st EP: a pre g3 beige mac (bought from my friend Amon Tobin) with a m-audio 66 soundcard and cubase VST, an Akai S2000, a Mackie 1604, a POD v1, some outboard behringer stuff (compressor, denoiser, enhancer), quadraverb+ and quadraverb II, a nord lead 1,Roland jx10 and jx3p, Yamaha tx81z, waldorf 4 pole, Boss pedals...

Today: a dual G5 running Cubase SX3 + 2 UAD-1 cards, RME fireface,
outboards: Drawmer 1968, Roland stereo spring reverb (rv 800) roland stereo flanger (sbf 325) Roland space echo, MAM rs-3 resonator and vf 11 (analog vocoder), line 6 delays and modulations, waldorf 4 pole, POD XT and Bass POD XT, EH white finger.
Synths: Clavia electro 2, Roland JX10 and JX3p (both with controlers pg800 and pg300) yamaha tx81z(the best £60 ever spent), casio cz1000, Korg 700s (my all time fav' monophonic), Logan string melody II (lovely strings machine) Kawai k5000s(additive synth)
Guitars and basses: fender 65' jazzmaster and 70' Mustang, 67' Mosrite electric XII, ,75' jazz bass, 68' Mosrite ventures bass , fender bass VI (reissue),Topo G's danelectro and fender 69' mustang bass, his 58' gibson (can't remember the name) his acoustic etc... and some bits and pieces (nepalese mandal, a broken banjo, tibetan singing bowls etc...
I should received a suzuki Q chord this week i bought it with topo G on ebay (we're sharing a studio space), we are REALLY eheh xcited about it ...
Old 20th November 2006
  #44
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Loads of nice stuff you have now!

I'm a sucker for the sound of string machines too.

I've never ever heard the sound of a Suzuki QChord, to my knowledge. Omnichord yes, but I'm assuming this is something different.

I must have another look for that 12 now...

Old 21st November 2006
  #45
Gear Addict
 

Some really great info here!

What about the ZOOM 1204 was cool? When I think of ZOOM products, I think most I have heard were pretty bad and goofy. What sound or patches were cool in this box that ENO may have been loving?

Also,

"He would want 6 separate fx processors with their own sends/returns which he then blended together by feeding them back to each other, etc creating a layer/canvas of treatments. He really got me into programming H3000."

What kind of H3000 programming? Did Eno go into "expert" mode in the Eventide right down to adjusting the 8 or 16 individual delays that would make up reverb and plex algorithms or would he stay closer to the surface of more general parameters and just tweak existing algorithms? What kind of effects did he mostly use the Eventide for?? Detuning and pitch shifting that it seems to be the best at or did he use it for other effects?

When hooking 6 different effects up to console sends and fader returns, what 6 effects processors would get hooked up to the sends and were all the sends feeding a single processor or were some of the processors stereo input using up two of the six sends?

Love to know some details!!

Thanks again!
Old 21st November 2006
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barilla View Post
Loads of nice stuff you have now!

I'm a sucker for the sound of string machines too.

I've never ever heard the sound of a Suzuki QChord, to my knowledge. Omnichord yes, but I'm assuming this is something different.

I must have another look for that 12 now...

Oh the Qchord is an omnichord but has midi in/out....the internal sound are digital gm rubbish...But what we want is to use it as a controller! well...it has been done before (Eno, Johnny Greenwood...)
Old 21st November 2006
  #47
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Barilla's Avatar
 

Yes, sounds like a good plan for a MIDI controller. Wouldn't mind one of those myself. I remember Music Control used to sell the old Omnichords (I saw a few of them in their old office once) and they were definitely useful. A MIDI version makes sense.
Old 21st November 2006
  #48
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Silver Sonya's Avatar
 

controversial interjection

I love a lot of the music discussed in this thread and I have really enjoyed reading it from a technical standpoint, but I feel that we are all missing the point:

Don't imitate Eno and Lanois with the equipment that they used. In fact, don't imitate at all! Take their work as an inspiring jump-off point. Invent your own ways of manipulating sound and arriving at unusual results. That's what those guys would want you to do if they read this thread: make up your own language! I mean, don't you think that would be their sentiment if they read this? "No, no, no. Do it your own way."

I am deep into a project for my own personal music which involves as much sound design as composition. My principle tools are Metasynth, Reaktor, Melodyne (not used for pitch correction as much as sonic manipulation --- lots of creative possibilities), the Kaoss pad, and a small box of weird boutique pedals. The people who made these tools are geniuses, every last one.

Important note: All of this stuff was invented in the last five years. I mean, I love Harold Budd as much (and probably more) than the next guy, but come on. Who cares what they were using to make "The Pearl"? That was then.

And most importantly, that was them.

Cheers,
Chad
Old 23rd November 2006
  #49
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WOAH!!! look whats for sale on EBAY!

<img src="http://i8.ebayimg.com/05/i/08/c0/4c/2b_3.JPG">


this is the synthi 100... not too many of these in existance!



chris coady
Old 23rd November 2006
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cookiekixx View Post
WOAH!!! look whats for sale on EBAY!

<img src="http://i8.ebayimg.com/05/i/08/c0/4c/2b_3.JPG">


this is the synthi 100... not too many of these in existance!



chris coady
Is that pop out cigarette lighter I see?
Old 5th February 2007
  #51
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I always think of Brian Eno as being a bit like Brian in Monty Python's 'Life of Brian' -

Brian: "Stop following me, I am not the Messiah! Now F*&% OFF!!!"
Disciples: "How shall we *&% off Lord?"

Seriously though, I think half the reason why the Eno/Lanois partnership has been so successful is because Eno has a very firm grasp of the conceptual (and technical) and lanois has a very firm grasp of the technical - so together they know where they want to go and how they are going to get there - and you need both to be taken care of or else you either get a finely polished turd or a great concept suffocating under a mass of cables and gear.

Dave.

Old 5th February 2007
  #52
Gear Addict
 

We just got a reissue and found it makes a very high pitched sound when engaged not unlike a TV that is on. We also found that the feedback could not be quite long enough in some situations.
We called EH and they told us the high ptiched sound was part of the design!
We sent it back, but wonder if it i just a notuher crap reissue look alike thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by espasonico View Post
One thing found very often in Lanois albums it´s the EH Memory Man. I love that pedal.
Old 6th February 2007
  #53
Jacklynn Overtones

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Old 6th February 2007
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jomo1234 View Post
I think a lot of the Harold Budd "sound" comes from the use of detuning some of the instruments (particularly the piano), which gives things a very melancoly and reflective tone. A perfect example of this is technique is on the album he made with The Cocteau Twins, called 'The Moon & The Melodies'. If you listen to the track "The Ghost has No Home" you will hear the detuned piano. It's a lovely track.
and this from a man with yosh and stan schmenge as his avatar....how could you possibly go wrong??
i personally love "she will destroy you" on that album.
Old 28th June 2012
  #55
Here for the gear
 

Eno was quoted in the early 90s as saying he always traveled with a Casio VL-tone in his case – that's right, the cheesy 8-bit "Da Da Da" mini-keyboard/calculator. He'd use it to record ideas or for studio effects on the fly. That's it backing up Bono & U2 in "With or Without You": the high-pitched strings/pipes sound ("fantasy" tone). Pretty versatile for its time, it has fun rhythms, a real-time sequencer, memory/2-key playback and a crude but useful ADSR synth, programmed via the calculator (!). The widespread use of Casio's VL-1, PT-10 and even the Stylophone mini organ by Eno, Bowie, Thomas Dolby, Moby, Human League, Dee-light et al, from New Wave and Techno up to the present continues to astound me.

Eno also is quite fond of the Suzuki Omnichord, championing the merits and versatility of this electric autoharp chord wonder. That's Eno onstage strumming a white Omnichord next to Bono and the Passengers as they performed "Miss Sarajevo" live in Italy with Pavarotti & friends at an European music awards show some years ago. Omnichord shows up all over Eno's music: the backing for "The River" from Eno & Cale's "Wrong Way Up", other U2/Passengers work etc.

His fave synth (till recently) was the simple Yamaha DX7; there's a pair side by side with him in an 80's casual studio shot. It's refreshing that someone with the creativity and genius of Eno isn't hung up on exclusively using top-shelf gear. I think he understands the value of grabbing a quick functional tool to create when needed; it's concept, strategy and expression that matter more than the perfect setup. In this way we get more happy accidents and new ideas without getting caught up in programming etc.

I've heard many musicians and producers (pre-laptop/iPhone) say that they used to carry a Casio or Yamaha mini-keyboard with them to "jot down ideas" for later studio use (Casio's VL-1, PT-30 et al). It's also been pretty easy to create lush shimmering sound vistas in my studio using just the simplest Casios, monosynths and basic effects. Some classic/cheap 80's synths I own have been real creative workhorses: the Casio CZ-1000/101 along with the humble Casio HT-700 and Yamaha PSS-480 easy-access workstations.

Eno is spot-on as usual with his comment about complex technology vs progress. A creative tool should be versatile, work well and work easily. Less is usually more than enough; often the more restrictions we have, the more innovative we have to be to create.

Also pick up a box of Eno's Oblique Strategies cards if you can (eBay, Amazon etc); very helpful in jolting us out of stagnant complacency to discover more free and creative possibilities.
Old 28th June 2012
  #56
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Fantastic thread. So many thoughtful, articulate posts.
Old 28th June 2012
  #57
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Old 28th June 2012
  #58
Gear Maniac
 

Might be of interest:

ValhallaShimmer was designed to get a variety of big reverb sounds, with the option of adding pitch shifted feedback to the decay. The “Shimmer” in the title refers to the classic shimmer effect, as used by U2, Brian Eno, Daniel Lanois,

ValhallaShimmer Tips and Tricks: Shimmering
Old 6th July 2014
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jules View Post
You would do well to have a long hard look at the Eventide 3000 FX processor. It has 'ethereal' sound from the get go.. Subsequent models like the DSP 4000 even go so far as to have presets NAMED after the man...

Spooky
Odd
Space age

Are all adjectives that can be used to describe the sounds that you can get from this brand of digital FX box..

Good luck..

Is it only the 4000 that has the ENO patches and can you upgrade a D/SE to get those patches?

here's one link to presets:
http://www.retrosynth.com/gear/h3000/h3000presets.html

Ahhh this is the mother load of H3000 bibles:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...UE&output=html
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