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"Apprenticeship" compared to "Recording School"? Recorders, Players & Tape Machines
Old 1st December 2010
  #151
Gear Maniac
 

A few folks have said it's really down to your individual mentor, whether he/ she puts them self out for you. Goes above and beyond. Some people say they love full sail, others hate it. It's also down to the individual and how they handle learning.
Old 7th December 2010
  #152
Gear Nut
 

Probably a dumb question, but would becoming a freelancer be worthwhile? Does anyone here freelance for work, rather than work for a particular studio?
Old 7th December 2010
  #153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Faye Clamor View Post
Probably a dumb question, but would becoming a freelancer be worthwhile? Does anyone here freelance for work, rather than work for a particular studio?
I think this is a valid question.

When I assisted in Detroit in the '80s (automotive photography) I was part of a large pool of freelance assistants. We did everything from fetch coffee to paint the cyclorama to cleaning/fixing gear. Some guys had no desire to hired as full-time employees 'cuz they loved the variety of seeing every different photographer's method. Others couldn't stand the lack of a solid paycheck and would always ask about employment.

Only the full-time employees touched the film and cameras. And freelancers were never allowed to look at the film with the clients & photographer. That was the domain of studio shooter and 1st assistant.

There were about 2 or 3 dozen thriving commercial photo studios in Detroit in the '80s and each studio housed multiple photographers. This provided for a thriving group of freelancers. Every spring, guys & gals who'd graduated from a photo college would make the rounds and leave behind resumés and sample photos.

I gotta believe that in a city like Nashville or L.A. or N.Y. that there'd be a pool of freelance assistants for audio recording.
Old 8th December 2010
  #154
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by CB_Photo View Post
I think this is a valid question.

When I assisted in Detroit in the '80s (automotive photography) I was part of a large pool of freelance assistants. We did everything from fetch coffee to paint the cyclorama to cleaning/fixing gear. Some guys had no desire to hired as full-time employees 'cuz they loved the variety of seeing every different photographer's method. Others couldn't stand the lack of a solid paycheck and would always ask about employment.

Only the full-time employees touched the film and cameras. And freelancers were never allowed to look at the film with the clients & photographer. That was the domain of studio shooter and 1st assistant.

There were about 2 or 3 dozen thriving commercial photo studios in Detroit in the '80s and each studio housed multiple photographers. This provided for a thriving group of freelancers. Every spring, guys & gals who'd graduated from a photo college would make the rounds and leave behind resumés and sample photos.

I gotta believe that in a city like Nashville or L.A. or N.Y. that there'd be a pool of freelance assistants for audio recording.
Thanks for clarifying that for me. I can certainly see the attraction for working for yourself, so long as you are well motivated.
Old 9th December 2010
  #155
Gear Maniac
 

Good idea to learn some basic book/ record keeping. I can really see the attraction of being your own boss though.
Old 14th December 2010
  #156
Gear Nut
 

Looks like the way most industries will go. Outsourcing means no healthcare, no dental.
Old 15th December 2010
  #157
Gear Maniac
 

I have to admit that it is nice to receive a steady paycheck and have all your benefits, especially in these uncertain times. Though I suppose in theory, if you are freelance you can demand a higher payment which would cover any medical/ dental payments. As they say swings and roundabouts.
Old 15th December 2010
  #158
I'm on the other side of the "benefits fence". I've seen many people take **** jobs with **** pay only because they offer a limp carrot called "benefits". I guarantee these people are not pursuing their dreams with passion. They're too afraid. Fear does not produce greatness.
Old 16th December 2010
  #159
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by CB_Photo View Post
I'm on the other side of the "benefits fence". I've seen many people take **** jobs with **** pay only because they offer a limp carrot called "benefits". I guarantee these people are not pursuing their dreams with passion. They're too afraid. Fear does not produce greatness.
Sometimes you just have to go for it.
Old 16th December 2010
  #160
Quote:
Originally Posted by goldeneye13 View Post
Sometimes you just have to go for it.
I've subscribed to Tape Op magazine for a few years now, and not one engineer they've interviewed has come from an audio engineering school. They've all gone through the intern stage, and most of 'em have done it at the finest studios in the country.
Old 21st December 2010
  #161
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dualflip's Avatar
 

Im a freelance engineer, and all i can say is that there are two seasons. In one of these seasons you are working even on weekends, on the other season you are praying god to throw you a bone. And this happens even to the best of the best, the difference is how much these seasons last, some people have very short periods of unemployment, so its not a big deal.

I would say that being a freelance engineer lets you do a lot of things and lets you decide what to do and what not to do, it lets you earn more money per project, but you have to make sure you do enough projects, otherwise you are not earning as much as you think, even if that last project paid off very well.

Being an inhouse engineer has less "thrill" in a certain way that you are stuck with your job and your monthly salary, but at the same time you dont have to worry about not having a job.

However being a freelance engineer also prepares yourself to times of unemployment and gives you the opportunity to know more people, if you are an in house engineer and you are suddenly fired or "let go", you may find yourself in a position where you dont have a ****ing clue what to do next or who to ask for help... but if you are a freelance then its not that big deal.... (as long as you are not unemployed for too long....)

Although to be honest, being an audio engineer, regardless of the one you choose to be, is not easy, theres always a high risk involved, which is higher than say being a doctor, a doctor can open the newspaper and look for a new job, an audio engineer cant..... but overall its worth it, i guess....
Old 21st December 2010
  #162
Gear Maniac
 

I can see being a free lancer would give you much stronger survival instincts and also make you prepare for the future a lot better (ie; save / invest).
Old 22nd December 2010
  #163
Gear Nut
 

It seems that a lot of businesses (not just studios) are outsourcing their work to independents/ freelancers. Catering retail staff etc, so indeed it does look like this is the way to go.
Old 27th December 2010
  #164
Gear Maniac
 

Very soon I believe that every working adult will be self employed/ freelance.
Old 27th December 2010
  #165
Quote:
Originally Posted by goldeneye13 View Post
Very soon I believe that every working adult will be self employed/ freelance.
+1
Old 28th December 2010
  #166
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by goldeneye13 View Post
Very soon I believe that every working adult will be self employed/ freelance.
That's all well and good for the recording engineer who wishes to add diversity to his resume but what about the average Joe? To be told after many years of service "sorry pal, but we found some one has undercut you for your job, bye" I can well see American jobs going to those who are willing to work for cheap (non residents) Hope not.
Old 29th December 2010
  #167
Gear Maniac
 

Unions were meant to protect workers, but were far too busy spending the money on hookers and booze. The problem is that everyone is now trying to compete with China, a country with the WORST employment rights on the planet.
Old 30th December 2010
  #168
Gear Nut
 

In this business I think that working for yourself is a better way to go, as long as you are organized (savings, health, pension, insurance etc) and motivated enough. There is something to be said for being your own boss.

On a side note Happy New Year to Everyone
Old 15th January 2011
  #169
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike O View Post
Another, somewhat unorthodox option might be for the student to pay someone to apprentice under. In other words pay somebody to be your personnal "school". One step beyond upaid intern (yikes!), but with some sort of understanding about what comes next from somebody who is actually working - not just teaching.

Might be a staged process whereby the student pays engineer x $ to be runner for x period of time. Student/engineer then agree whether to proceed. Student then pays engineer x $ to actually start internship. Tasks to be taught (and learned) are at least loosely defined up front but for the most part this would have to be a trust sort of thing. Student not to be abused. Engineers time not to be wasted.
Sounds good to me! any mastering engineers/studio owners in London!
Old 21st January 2011
  #170
Here for the gear
 

goldeneye13 hey, any news with your course? (:
Old 22nd January 2011
  #171
Gear Head
 

I interned at a studio and went to a 4 year program. Im staff engineer at a studio now, freelance at other studios in the area, and just became chief engineer for Susan Rogers' new studio.

Just work. Find bands and follow your gut. Be competitive but its so important not to step on other peoples' toes. Were all in this crazy **** together.
Old 1st March 2011
  #172
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlbatrossAudio View Post
I interned at a studio and went to a 4 year program. Im staff engineer at a studio now, freelance at other studios in the area, and just became chief engineer for Susan Rogers' new studio.

Just work. Find bands and follow your gut. Be competitive but its so important not to step on other peoples' toes. Were all in this crazy **** together.
Congrats man. I think sometimes people do forget that we are all in this together.
Old 3rd March 2011
  #173
Gear Maniac
 

I can honestly say that if I ever became successful I would be happy to help others out, with advice, tips etc. Some of the more established folk on some forums seem to really hate helping others out. Maybe they are afraid of passing along trade secrets.
Old 3rd March 2011
  #174
Lives for gear
 
j-uk's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by goldeneye13 View Post
I can honestly say that if I ever became successful I would be happy to help others out, with advice, tips etc. Some of the more established folk on some forums seem to really hate helping others out. Maybe they are afraid of passing along trade secrets.
I think you'll find that most of them do or have done in the past.

Gotta remember that this is GS not helpanewbie.com.
Where here to talk gear.
Old 11th March 2011
  #175
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by j-uk View Post
I think you'll find that most of them do or have done in the past.

Gotta remember that this is GS not helpanewbie.com.
Where here to talk gear.
Agreed, but it doesn't hurt to help others out, does it?
Old 11th March 2011
  #176
135862
Guest
Against suggestion of several close pro studio-owner friends (who offered internships), I went for a bachelors in a music recording school. When that was done, I stayed and did my masters for two years. The mistakes I see professionals make on basic fundamental principles like signal flow, digital audio, etc. were largely taken care of first year of audio tech classes, and I'm confident to say I'm well past that. The programs I attended were also BM and MM of Music with emphasis in recording technology, so in addition to the recording curriculum, I'm well schooled in music and have some liberal arts clout.

My thoughts:
Apprenticeship: If you're confident you're going to do exactly what your mentor does (because the economy can support you and you KNOW its what you want to do) AND you can find a mentor who can teach you what you need to know and is for whatever reason motivated to help you (actual teaching skills are hard to come by IMO) then I say maybe go for it. Spend the money you would've spent paying off tuition and books and buy equipment and go for it.

Education: If you don't know what you want to do and you can afford to go to a school that prepares you on a fundamental level to do anything...do it. But...just the same, find a school that can do the job...not all are created equal. If you want a school that teaches you how to replace drums, go for it...if you want a school that still runs analog tape...go for it. FWIW, Grads from my program win Grammys in mastering and classical recording, engineer at top studios in NYC and LA, and also manage development at consumer electronics manufacturers, do custom A/V system design and install, work as engineer/assistants for A-list composers, work in video games, work in post, etc. I think that having an education gives you a better opportunity to stay stable (in terms of always being able to find a job) in a world that has less and less jobs available.
Old 11th March 2011
  #177
Lives for gear
 
Sigma's Avatar
recording schools teach you to be assistant engineers {i have had to explain this to disgruntled Full Sail graduates when they landed their $10 hr assistant gig at our studio instead of an engineering postion after spending 40k at school}

apprenticeships teach the captains chair

i gofered for 2 years and assited for 3 before engineering my first session [the act -- the three degrees]
Old 11th March 2011
  #178
Lives for gear
 
j-uk's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by goldeneye13 View Post
Agreed, but it doesn't hurt to help others out, does it?
As I said, most do.
However no need to give people slack for not doing so or somehow imply that it's a lack of character not to.

Getting help from someone more experienced is a bonus of the general conversation on GS and should be taken as that, not be expected.

Cheers

J
Old 12th March 2011
  #179
Gear Maniac
 

Enough said.
Old 12th March 2011
  #180
teo
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teo's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sigma View Post
recording schools teach you to be assistant engineers {i have had to explain this to disgruntled Full Sail graduates when they landed their $10 hr assistant gig at our studio instead of an engineering postion after spending 40k at school}
10$/h for an assistant gig sounds great from over here! I used to get 5$/h after tax, and it was not terrible for a first (actually, second) job as an assistant. I do not live in NY or LA, but still Rome isn't the cheapest of cities in the world.
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