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What if we could make a huge table of descriptive colors for the sound of gear
Old 7th August 2010
  #31
Gear Nut
 

Maybe this should be a table instead of a graph. If we could sort out 5 or so qualities, like George mentioned, then we could hold a vote on rating each piece of gear from 1-10 in that category. Any measure by which we separate the gear will be somewhat subjective anyway, so it may be beneficial to do things this way. Tables are easier to grasp anyway when there are more than one or two variables involved.
Old 7th August 2010
  #32
Gear Nut
 

Sounds like an astrological zodiac would be a suitable layout.

Hi, I'm a Neve with an API ascending, my moon is in Germanium and my Mercury is retrograde.
Old 7th August 2010
  #33
Quote:
Originally Posted by miksirhc View Post
Maybe this should be a table instead of a graph. If we could sort out 5 or so qualities, like George mentioned, then we could hold a vote on rating each piece of gear from 1-10 in that category. Any measure by which we separate the gear will be somewhat subjective anyway, so it may be beneficial to do things this way. Tables are easier to grasp anyway when there are more than one or two variables involved.
That's what I tried to explain.. :-)

We need to start the table.

I am descending ITB with ascending limitation, but punchy as hell :-)
Old 7th August 2010
  #34
Gear Addict
 
FredYeah's Avatar
 

What I can do:

I can host an online questionnaire for you guys. We'll get a lot of different types of pre-amps and we need some variables to measure. For the measurement I too was thinking of a likert scale, where you can rate an object from 1-9. (For instance, give a number between 1-9 where 1 is CLEAN and 9 is colored.)

That way we can add as many variables as we want. Ill put it in a questionnaire form, host it online and eveybody who is interested can participate.

Ill export the result in some nifty graph software (Im an information analyst during the day time ) and ill make some visual representation of the collected data.

Would be fun! thumbsup
Old 7th August 2010
  #35
Lives for gear
 
emrr's Avatar
here's a few for the list, I'll get to the SS stuff later.

Altec 428A
Altec 428B
Altec 429A
Altec 429B
Altec 458A
Altec 459A
AWA 1G59391
Collins 356A
Collins 6C
Collins 6D
Collins 7JA
Collins 12X
Collins 12Z
Collins 212Y
Collins 6N
Collins 6Q
Collins 6P
Collins 6R
Gates Remote Combiner
Gates 7X
Gates SA70
Gates SA70-A
Gates SA20
Gates SA-94
Gates M-5287
Gates PRE1
Gates PRE4
Gates PGM4
General Electric 4BA1H1
General Electric 4BA10A1
Langevin 116
Langevin 117
Langevin 5116
Langevin 5116-B
Lomo Y?-27
Presto 39-B
RCA 40-C
RCA 40-D
RCA 41A
RCA 41B
RCA 41C
RCA OP-3
RCA OP-5
RCA OP-6
RCA 76 console preamps
RCA 85B
RCA 85X
RCA 87-A
RCA MI-4231
RCA PA-134
RCA MI-9357A
RCA BA-1A
RCA M1-12241
RCA BA-2A
RCA BA-11A
RCA MI-11241
RCA BA-21A
RCA BA-23A
RCA BC-3C console 643262-1
Old 9th August 2010
  #36
Cool!

We should divide the survey in subjective feeling independent arguments like punchy, clean, colored.. Tbc and measured parameters.

I think 9 steps are too much. We shoukd use less.. Maybe 5? (for example 1= clean, 5= extreme colored), whereas 3 is moderatly colored.. Tbc.

Please make sure you can export this data into xls/xml format, so wecan make graphs out of it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FredYeah View Post
What I can do:

I can host an online questionnaire for you guys. We'll get a lot of different types of pre-amps and we need some variables to measure. For the measurement I too was thinking of a likert scale, where you can rate an object from 1-9. (For instance, give a number between 1-9 where 1 is CLEAN and 9 is colored.)

That way we can add as many variables as we want. Ill put it in a questionnaire form, host it online and eveybody who is interested can participate.

Ill export the result in some nifty graph software (Im an information analyst during the day time ) and ill make some visual representation of the collected data.

Would be fun! thumbsup
Old 9th August 2010
  #37
Gear Addict
 
FredYeah's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by George Necola View Post
Cool!

We should divide the survey in subjective feeling independent arguments like punchy, clean, colored.. Tbc and measured parameters.

I think 9 steps are too much. We shoukd use less.. Maybe 5? (for example 1= clean, 5= extreme colored), whereas 3 is moderatly colored.. Tbc.

Please make sure you can export this data into xls/xml format, so wecan make graphs out of it.
I can export in XLS, no problem. Im a low budget guy, so probably not the best party to get involved... If you get a set of parameters and a list of pre amps, I will get to work.
Old 10th August 2010
  #38
Quote:
Originally Posted by FredYeah View Post
I can export in XLS, no problem. Im a low budget guy, so probably not the best party to get involved... If you get a set of parameters and a list of pre amps, I will get to work.
Well, the ones posted before are a good start but I think we should begin with V78, 3124, gml, 1073 and then go into details.

Ok. Parameter definition. (all input welcome & necessary)

"feeling parameters":
Punchy/mellow (5 - 1)
Coloring/transparent (5 - 1)
Transparent/coloring
Dark/open
Tbc

Measurements:
Frequency range & linearity (-3dB @ 45khz...)
Raise time input (that's no problem jim?)
Tbc.
Open the box and look if they used only cheap chinese caps or high quality stuff)
Old 10th August 2010
  #39
Gear Addict
 

Hey, if you do pairwise similarity ratings for all the gear, I can run the results through non-metric multi-dimensional scaling and tell you how many subjective dimensions (N) the various bits of gear actually differ along. You can plot the relative positions of the gear in an N-dimensional space. Probably pretty pointless, but I do like the idea of a colour space for gear.
Old 10th August 2010
  #40
Quote:
Originally Posted by kkonkkrete View Post
Hey, if you do pairwise similarity ratings for all the gear, I can run the results through non-metric multi-dimensional scaling and tell you how many subjective dimensions (N) the various bits of gear actually differ along. You can plot the relative positions of the gear in an N-dimensional space. Probably pretty pointless, but I do like the idea of a colour space for gear.
me too.. beeing a studied Physicist, I know what you are talking about.

heh
Old 11th August 2010
  #41
What if we could make a huge table of descriptive colors for the sound of gear

The last step of this process would be to create an online where a user can answer 10 questions or just enter his likes (what he is looking for) and the result will be a list of gear that matches.

Now who want to buy from me? :-)
Old 11th August 2010
  #42
Jai guru deva om
 
warhead's Avatar
 

The expensive ones should be represented by more green.

War
Old 11th August 2010
  #43
Lives for gear
 
toledo3's Avatar
 

Here's a thought- there have been countless subjective comparisons of this nature.

Why not take actual objective measurements, like the frequency response, noise floor, distortion at various frequencies, etc., along with subjective analysis (eg., warm, punchy, cold, sterile).

The slang for describing the way gear sounds can be hard to take seriously at times. The word "engineer" in the term "audio engineer" is used QUITE liberally.
Old 11th August 2010
  #44
What if we could make a huge table of descriptive colors for the sound of gear

I will use red for warmer preamps.

Days have changed. Mixerman is a book author, slipperman is psych doc, fletcher is inspecting d-day weizen, jules became forum boss, michael w is workshop maniac..

Still preamps are preamps and the term engineer has diminished. There are 10 new products/day (hw&sw).. And it's hard for me to keep track (I was a geardealer/engineer before so I had to know what's out there).

Like I said, we should have objective and subjective parameters.
Old 11th August 2010
  #45
Lives for gear
 
Flying_Dutchman's Avatar
 

i really like and appreciate your idea
but:
1. To be honest, i don´t think that visual colours can represent it for me personally, i´m more into sounds than into colours, nor an x/y system,
cause it´s psycho acoustics and the differences are more subtle than to represent in such a limited system, for me
2. The coloured amps got different sounds, how you push them, and
3. how you combine them (which is totally overlooked imo)


i´m into 1073, 512, v76, smp2 and orions nowdays, but this is a radical selection imo, cause they are really differnet
how should i make an opinion about preamp xyz in between by a chart
i really think we got to hear and try it
your idea is great and i´ll follow this thread, maybe i´m wrong and i can learn something

love + peace
Old 12th August 2010
  #46
Lives for gear
 
toledo3's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by George Necola View Post
I will use red for warmer preamps.

Days have changed. Mixerman is a book author, slipperman is psych doc, fletcher is inspecting d-day weizen, jules became forum boss, michael w is workshop maniac..

Still preamps are preamps and the term engineer has diminished. There are 10 new products/day (hw&sw).. And it's hard for me to keep track (I was a geardealer/engineer before so I had to know what's out there).

Like I said, we should have objective and subjective parameters.
Do you describe yourself as an engineer?

Preamps sounding "red"?

Engineers apply_science.

This is the difference between an engineers, button pushers, and musos.
Old 12th August 2010
  #47
What if we could make a huge table of descriptive colors for the sound of gear

Have you heard about humor?

Humor is usualy black colored.
Old 23rd July 2011
  #48
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by emrr View Post
here's a few for the list, I'll get to the SS stuff later.

Altec 428A
Altec 428B
Altec 429A
Altec 429B
Altec 458A
Altec 459A
AWA 1G59391
Collins 356A
Collins 6C
Collins 6D
Collins 7JA
Collins 12X
Collins 12Z
Collins 212Y
Collins 6N
Collins 6Q
Collins 6P
Collins 6R
Gates Remote Combiner
Gates 7X
Gates SA70
Gates SA70-A
Gates SA20
Gates SA-94
Gates M-5287
Gates PRE1
Gates PRE4
Gates PGM4
General Electric 4BA1H1
General Electric 4BA10A1
Langevin 116
Langevin 117
Langevin 5116
Langevin 5116-B
Lomo Y?-27
Presto 39-B
RCA 40-C
RCA 40-D
RCA 41A
RCA 41B
RCA 41C
RCA OP-3
RCA OP-5
RCA OP-6
RCA 76 console preamps
RCA 85B
RCA 85X
RCA 87-A
RCA MI-4231
RCA PA-134
RCA MI-9357A
RCA BA-1A
RCA M1-12241
RCA BA-2A
RCA BA-11A
RCA MI-11241
RCA BA-21A
RCA BA-23A
RCA BC-3C console 643262-1
nice set of vintage pres
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