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Old 12th December 2011
  #721
Gear Head
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by CKenterpro ➡️
I know this has been discussed many times but I need a pair of headphones to do mixing on late at night since I don't have too much time during the day and can't turn the monitors on past 8pm.

I know mixing on headphones is taboo but I have too.

Also not to mention i'm having trouble hearing where my bass needs to sit. So cans with great bass detail and clarity is key. I'm mixing mostly rock/metal/modern rock/alternative.

My budget is 500-600$

I've been researching some cans out there these two i'm interested in:

Beyer DT880 32ohms
Ultrasone pro 2900 (anyone use these yet)

Already have the ATm50

If there are better phones out there please chime in.
I have the HD-800 which are great but they're very cold and brutal.

And when you want to be creative they're too cold.

I like to check my mixes on a really cheap pair of HD212's which aren't flat at all but have this lovely warmth in the bottom end.

They're not reliable of course and I'd never mix on them but I do hear things I don't hear on the HD-800s.

So I guess my advice is, whatever you go for get some nice but not too expensive closed back headphones just to vibe with and get a different opinion.
Old 12th December 2011 | Show parent
  #722
Gear Guru
 
John Willett's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by fearoftigers ➡️
I have the HD-800 which are great but they're very cold and brutal.
Interesting - I have the HD 800 and don't find them cold and brutal at all.

I find them clean and revealing and, actually, very pleasant to listen to.

In fact, so pleasant, that I found myself listening for five or six hours and thinking it was only about two hours or so - I was quite shocked when I discovered how long it was.

I do find them very revealing of the source, though, and poor recordings will sound poor - and they will also reveal deficiencies in your equipment.

I use mine with a Grace m902b.
Old 12th December 2011 | Show parent
  #723
Lives for gear
 
7 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Willett ➡️

I use mine with a Grace m902b.

This could be the reason. Amp can make a huge difference.
Old 12th December 2011 | Show parent
  #724
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkSky Media ➡️
John has provided a clear and unequivocal qualitative result. One you can easily obtain for yourself. You appear to be rejecting the qualitative result - with sarcasm - on the basis that only a quantitative result could be either "scientific" or "conclusive". However, you are mistaken.

Long before anyone measured the color temperature of the light reaching us from the Moon, people noticed that it was yellow. Had you been there, presumably, you would have a) refused to accept that the Moon was yellow because its color had not been "measured" in a way you regarded as "conclusive", b) declined to look at the Moon to see for yourself, and c) responded with indignant sarcasm to anyone who suggested either that the Moon was yellow or that you take a look at it rather than quibbling over nonsense.
The only nonsense here is the invitation to go listen to one pair of headphones for a conclusive answer and your response quoted above, your moon argument is totally out of context.

When people make claims as if they are facts they should be prepared to answer for them. If you are satisfied with this response that's cool...I'm not.

Listening to two pairs of headphones does not answer the question conclusively...this is science.
Old 12th December 2011 | Show parent
  #725
Gear Head
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Willett ➡️
Interesting - I have the HD 800 and don't find them cold and brutal at all.

I find them clean and revealing and, actually, very pleasant to listen to.

In fact, so pleasant, that I found myself listening for five or six hours and thinking it was only about two hours or so - I was quite shocked when I discovered how long it was.

I do find them very revealing of the source, though, and poor recordings will sound poor - and they will also reveal deficiencies in your equipment.

I use mine with a Grace m902b.
What I mean is, brutally honest which of course is what you need when you're mixing.

And they're the most comfortable headphones I've ever used.

But other headphones give me much more warmth and vibe so I think it's always good to have a reference pair, even if it's just earbuds.

Actually I think it's pretty essential to check things on buds as that's how most people listen these days.
Old 12th December 2011 | Show parent
  #726
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Piedpiper's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samc ➡️
I haven't given anything to anybody I was asking a question...one of many I might add.

But who should I give this credit to if not the guys who design and build the phones pray tell?
my point is that I doubt the manufacturer bothers to consider any of these issues. They are too busy running a business.
Old 12th December 2011 | Show parent
  #727
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piedpiper ➡️
my point is that I doubt the manufacturer bothers to consider any of these issues. They are too busy running a business.
The performance of their products is their business, why would they not consider this issue important?

You really think that if burning in the phones had such a profound effect on the performance of the units the manufacturers wouldn't tell users about it?

Think about it for a second, don't you see how not dealing with such an important issue could work against them...
Old 13th December 2011 | Show parent
  #728
Lives for gear
 
7 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samc ➡️
You really think that if burning in the phones had such a profound effect on the performance of the units the manufacturers wouldn't tell users about it?


Allot of manufacturers do mention burn in, often in the manual (or at least on web)>
Old 13th December 2011 | Show parent
  #729
Lives for gear
 
Piedpiper's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samc ➡️
The performance of their products is their business, why would they not consider this issue important?

You really think that if burning in the phones had such a profound effect on the performance of the units the manufacturers wouldn't tell users about it?

Think about it for a second, don't you see how not dealing with such an important issue could work against them...
I've thought about it for much longer than a second... I know a lot o these designer types personally. some are hip to it. some aren't. some tell people what they want to hear. some argue with them. In pro audio, as opposed to the world of high end stereo, it is more common for engineer types to discount this level of minutiae as beyond their job description, at least in the context of bringing a product to market. Re: how profound the difference is, it is common for some folks to consider very subtle differences to be profound and for others to discount anything smaller than a stick of dynamite, and everything in between.

But don't take my word for it. Why don't you talk to a bunch of these manufacturers and let us know what you find.
Old 13th December 2011 | Show parent
  #730
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piedpiper ➡️
In pro audio, as opposed to the world of high end stereo, it is more common for engineer types to discount this level of minutiae as beyond their job description, at least in the context of bringing a product to market.
I don't believe this...you've got to be kidding me.

Pro audio is where minute detail is important, some of the people using this gear are actually very bright engineers themselves who know the science behind the gear we use. So called High-end stereo is where the coco's live, the place where science fiction and BS reign, it's the place where guys spend thousands of dollars on all kinds of stupid gimmickry ($10,000 power cables) because they can 'hear' the difference...


Quote:
it is common for some folks to consider very subtle differences to be profound and for others to discount anything smaller than a stick of dynamite, and everything in between.
Dude, we are talking about something that some people claim they can hear, we are talking about something that permanently changes the sound of a pair of frigging headphones for crying out loud. If that isn't important to headphone manufacturers then what is?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Piedpiper ➡️
But don't take my word for it. Why don't you talk to a bunch of these manufacturers and let us know what you find.
Based on the questions I've been asking you really think I'm just some 'greenhorn' who doesn't know his way around? Sheesh. I know a few of these designer and manufacturing types, guys who design and build some of the professional gear that's in use in this industry, and none of them fit the description you give...but hey.

I seriously thought we were having a sensible debate but it's clear we're not...carry on. It's just a pity that many novices will come here and get duped by all this BS posing as fact.
Old 13th December 2011 | Show parent
  #731
Lives for gear
 
Piedpiper's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
we've already seen where some manufacturers claim it's an issue and others claim it's not. not sure what you're reacting so strongly too here. Like all people, they're all over the map. I'm responding to what looks from here like polarizing blanket statements is all... I really think you can relax a bit... just a suggestion...
Old 28th December 2011 | Show parent
  #732
Lives for gear
 
Anghello's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunatique ➡️
Think about it like this--when you use a CD to seal the earcup, the surface of the CD is supposed to be the side of your face. Then you put the testing mic at the hole of the CD, and you shouldn't push it in, because that wouldn't make sense--it's like your eardrums are coming out of your ears.

But of course, this isn't totally scientific/precise, because the ears actually have ear canals to shape the sound, while a CD/testing mic cannot emulate the existence of ear canals. Also, the side of the face around the ears are skin and hair, while the CD's surface is much more reflective. You can maybe line the surface of the CD with something like cotton or whatever that's closer to skin/hair.

I have used the above measuring method to measure my headphones, but I have not used ARC to measure/tweak the headphones, because I'm not sure if the result will be accurate, as ARC was never designed for headphones. I might give it a shot one of these days though, just for fun. But since I already tweaked the custom EQ curves for my headphones to perfection, I'm not in a hurry to try it out.

You might want to take a look at this though:
SonoReplicator - MP3 demo

That's almost like IK Multimedia's ARC System, but can be used on headphones too.

I almost laughed when I saw them using the measuring mic through the hole of a CD--since that's exactly how I measure my headphones too.




You should get caught up on the new developments in Planar Magnetic headphones. It's now been revolutionized and making a huge leap in quality/capability through products like the Audez'e LCD-3, LCD-2, and Hifiman HE-500, HE-6, HE-5...etc.

Also, the progress is typically evolutionary, even if the technology is fundamentally the same, many advances through computer simulation, better testing/measuring techniques, superior material...etc have made advanced that weren't possible in the past (or weren't cost effective).



For those of you who are thinking of the M50 or already own one, I can share my custom EQ curve for it, which turns it into a more neutral/accurate headphone.



You do not read headphone frequency response graphs the same way you read ones for speakers. You should read the educational material provided at HeadRoom--it explains how to properly read headphone frequency response graphs.
Thank you so much! It seems like a new great plug for winamp in studio. While ARC challenge PT and FL, this would be fine listen to clients demos or instrumental search (for rap mixtapes etc.) Very useful!
Old 28th December 2011 | Show parent
  #733
Lives for gear
 
Anghello's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.HOLMES ➡️
SoundStage! "All In Your Head" Back-Issue Article (7/2006)




I am happy I got mine from Amazon 2 months ago for 180 Euros...
Thomann offers the best price now- AKG K701 Stereo Kopfhrer
Cheek this out!



Old 28th December 2011 | Show parent
  #734
Lives for gear
 
Anghello's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Willett ➡️
Interesting - I have the HD 800 and don't find them cold and brutal at all.

I find them clean and revealing and, actually, very pleasant to listen to.

In fact, so pleasant, that I found myself listening for five or six hours and thinking it was only about two hours or so - I was quite shocked when I discovered how long it was.

I do find them very revealing of the source, though, and poor recordings will sound poor - and they will also reveal deficiencies in your equipment.

I use mine with a Grace m902b.

That’s interesting fact about 6 hour’s thing - sounds interesting.

6hours working with Etymotic was a first horrible experience to me. My ears and brain get tired so much I couldn’t remember the last experience like that. Studio monitors was in pre-service condition (tweeters blown by continuous 5 sec pink noise). I was pissed off that can’t compare or trust that sound of mix I made... but after few days when monitors get fixed I was strongly surprised by the well ballanced sound of tracks! I mean really surprised! They were really tight.

For instance I would like to add one greater thing about mixing with phones. Recently I was comparing summing boxes on vintageking so big difference between them I’ve heard on heads is not audible on pro studio monitors.

Only con is: you can get lost in depth and space of your mix. But the micro dynamics are awesome.
Old 4th January 2012
  #735
Here for the gear
 
🎧 10 years
You people need to stop smoking the weed and all get Sennheiser HD250 Linear II's. That is YOUR headphone and you don't even know about it. Sad ...

Sent from my GT-I9000 using Gearslutz.com
Old 4th January 2012
  #736
Gear Guru
 
John Willett's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by eug3nius ➡️
You people need to stop smoking the weed and all get Sennheiser HD250 Linear II's. That is YOUR headphone and you don't even know about it. Sad ...

Sent from my GT-I9000 using Gearslutz.com
Unfortunately the excellent HD 250 was discontinued several years ago.

I have about 5 pairs heh
Old 4th January 2012
  #737
Gear Head
 
sonick909's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Yamaha rh-5ma
Old 4th January 2012 | Show parent
  #738
Lives for gear
 
Anghello's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Willett ➡️
Unfortunately the excellent HD 250 was discontinued several years ago.

I have about 5 pairs heh
Just found some in CZ stock.. pricing is around 200 EUR. PM if you need them. But I think HD800 are way better and precise.
Old 5th January 2012
  #739
Lives for gear
 
Ain't Nobody's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Now that I've spent some time with them, I'm learning to appreciate the ath-m50's. They're certainly not my gotos, but they're so good at revealing mud in the low end in a way that my monitors don't, my car doesn't, my senn 595's don't... that I feel compelled to check the low end on them.

It's really helped me clear up a few issues I might have otherwise missed.

I'll take the Senns any day for all other aspects, though.
Old 5th January 2012 | Show parent
  #740
Gear Guru
 
John Willett's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anghello ➡️
Just found some in CZ stock.. pricing is around 200 EUR. PM if you need them. But I think HD800 are way better and precise.
So Panter still have a few left then?

When they were discontinued I grabbed every pair that Sennheiser UK had left (just 3 or 4).

But I agree that the HD 800 is way way better. But the HD 800 is x5 the price and open (the HD 250 are closed).
Old 10th January 2012 | Show parent
  #741
Lives for gear
 
Anghello's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Willett ➡️
So Panter still have a few left then?

When they were discontinued I grabbed every pair that Sennheiser UK had left (just 3 or 4).

But I agree that the HD 800 is way way better. But the HD 800 is x5 the price and open (the HD 250 are closed).
I wrote them to find out if there still is a pair.. as soon as they reply I would let know.
Old 10th January 2012 | Show parent
  #742
Lives for gear
 
Anghello's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Willett ➡️
So Panter still have a few left then?

When they were discontinued I grabbed every pair that Sennheiser UK had left (just 3 or 4).

But I agree that the HD 800 is way way better. But the HD 800 is x5 the price and open (the HD 250 are closed).
They are not in stock anymore I am very sorry it was "in stock" disinformation. Guyz told me they are missin them too and no better closed headphones availible anymore.

Does they sound close to HD800 or its more HD260?
Old 14th January 2012
  #743
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Hi,

I wanted to get some cheap but good quality for price headphones for mixing and editing and general Pro Tools use (mainly - whilst also for just listening to ipod too). I read this forum and settled on the Senn Hd 280 Pro.......Upon returning to this site I feel I made the wrong choice and for the price, should have gone for the AT M50s. A lot of slating has happened (Lunatique mainly made me question my choice) Is this right? I see that no one has mentionned that they have had better experience after burning them in whereas the M50s have had better praise after burning. Should I straight swap them for some AT's or keep them. Please tell me what to do. I am no sort of expert just wanted some decent enough headphones. And I'm not complaining the sound of the 280 Pro blew me away - but they are easily the best headphones I have put on my head in years as I'm NO sort of audiophile!!!!!!
Old 14th January 2012 | Show parent
  #744
Lives for gear
 
Piedpiper's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
I think the M50 is the better headphone but the 280 Pro is not bad. I wouldn't lose sleep over it but if you have the opportunity to trade one for the other easily I think it would be worth it.
Old 14th January 2012
  #745
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Audiovisjon's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by CKenterpro ➡️
I know this has been discussed many times but I need a pair of headphones to do mixing on late at night since I don't have too much time during the day and can't turn the monitors on past 8pm.

I know mixing on headphones is taboo but I have too.

Also not to mention i'm having trouble hearing where my bass needs to sit. So cans with great bass detail and clarity is key. I'm mixing mostly rock/metal/modern rock/alternative.

My budget is 500-600$

I've been researching some cans out there these two i'm interested in:

Beyer DT880 32ohms
Ultrasone pro 2900 (anyone use these yet)

Already have the ATm50

If there are better phones out there please chime in.
Hey mate!

Id stay away from the ultrasones. Very coloured with a higly tailored frequencyrespons ....not for mixing imo. The DT880 is pretty cool. The new shure rage is great and the latest addition SRH940 comes close to my sennheiser HD800 which is the most amazing headphones Iv worked with in my 20 years in this business. If you want the best and have the opportunity to save up....buy the HD800...

Good luck !
Old 14th January 2012 | Show parent
  #746
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Unclenny's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiovisjon ➡️
Id stay away from the ultrasones. Very coloured with a higly tailored frequencyrespons ....not for mixing imo.
Been mixing with Ultrasone Proline 650 for a very long time. Just got a set of 900's.

While I agree with the assessment that they are a bit tailored, there are some great things about these 900's that I am already hearing. I tend to mix 70% with phones and I have struggled, obviously with bass response. These Ultrasone 900's are true bass monsters.

They also have a high mid bump that is already helping me out.

And..that whole S-Logic thing really works for me as I am wearing them constantly. They do have a tendency to spread the soundstage a bit, but I kind of like that.

Old 14th January 2012
  #747
Gear Guru
 
John Willett's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiovisjon ➡️
If you want the best and have the opportunity to save up....buy the HD800...
And if you really can't afford the HD800 try the new HD700 - launched at CES a few days ago and about 40% cheaper.

UK first showing should be the Bristol Hi-Fi show next month I understand.
Old 15th January 2012 | Show parent
  #748
Lives for gear
 
Piedpiper's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Willett ➡️
And if you really can't afford the HD800 try the new HD700 - launched at CES a few days ago and about 40% cheaper.

UK first showing should be the Bristol Hi-Fi show next month I understand.
sounds interesting... replaces the 650?
Old 15th January 2012 | Show parent
  #749
Captain
 
Mike Shipley's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
You are going to see new headphone's for mixing very soon !!!! They a a new headphone design , 5 years in research and development , specifically for mixing .
Ribbon headphones that will blow everything else out of the water .
Shipshape
Old 15th January 2012 | Show parent
  #750
Lives for gear
 
Lunatique's Avatar
 
4 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by syphabiscuit ➡️
Hi,

I wanted to get some cheap but good quality for price headphones for mixing and editing and general Pro Tools use (mainly - whilst also for just listening to ipod too). I read this forum and settled on the Senn Hd 280 Pro.......Upon returning to this site I feel I made the wrong choice and for the price, should have gone for the AT M50s. A lot of slating has happened (Lunatique mainly made me question my choice) Is this right? I see that no one has mentionned that they have had better experience after burning them in whereas the M50s have had better praise after burning. Should I straight swap them for some AT's or keep them. Please tell me what to do. I am no sort of expert just wanted some decent enough headphones. And I'm not complaining the sound of the 280 Pro blew me away - but they are easily the best headphones I have put on my head in years as I'm NO sort of audiophile!!!!!!
The 280 Pro is one of the most overrated headphones I've ever heard. In the year 2012, with ample choices of excellent headphones out there, there's absolutely no reason why anyone should be buying that over the superior selections today--especially if you are willing to spend just a little bit more.

IMO, if you are serious about music, spending over $100 minimum on headphones is the least you can do to, since there are no room modes to deal with, so what you buy is what you get--as opposed to buying a pair of speakers and then have it sound nothing like how they should because your room's room modes are totally f*cking up the response of the speakers. Add something like Isone or Redline Monitor (or if you have the money, a headphone amp with crossfeed such as SPL Phonitor or Grace M902), you really don't need much else (although if you are getting a high-end headphone amp, you might as well get a pair of high-end headphones. Using entry-level headphones with high-end amps is kind of ass-backwards).

A good headphone system is a complete solution, and for many, it's the only solution they need. But for those who prefer the additional dimensionality/visceral impact of speakers (and not being tethered to headphones), you'll need the budget/space/knowledge required for a good pair of studio monitors, acoustic treatment, and room correction product like the ARC System.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Piedpiper ➡️
sounds interesting... replaces the 650?
It's priced priced between the HD800 and HD650, and meant as an in-betweener of the two.
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