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Compressed using my guitar pedal compressor. Wow! Effects Pedals, Units & Accessories
Old 29th May 2010
  #1
Gear Nut
 

Compressed using my guitar pedal compressor. Wow!

This is probably not the best compressor for the job, but man, this is almost what I have always missed in all compressor plugins I have ever tried. I am using a Marshall Edward ED-1 pedal compressor. It is smoother, it can be dirty , and it shapes the sound which I haven't been able to do with plugins. Now I can get more punchy and smooth drums. Sure it removes some high end but I add some high shelf and it sounds almost as clear as the unprocessed again.

Do you guys think that analog outboard compressors are alot easier and "better" than plugins and easier to use to get archieve what you hear in your head? If I had money I would invest in a couple of nice compressors to use at tracking to shape my sound which I can't do with plugins.

Best Regards
Rickard
Old 29th May 2010
  #2
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Protools Guy's Avatar
 

Are you using it in the chain between your guitar and amplifier?
Old 29th May 2010
  #3
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Other than the fact that stomp boxes are un-balanced they are often well suited for use in a recording chain.

With a proper (higher current) power supply they can often even take a +4 signal.
Many have op amps and circuits that have WAY more headroom than they are being used for as an instrument pedal.
Old 29th May 2010
  #4
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taturana's Avatar
I once got a great gritty overdriven bass sound with one of those blue boss compressor pedals.... exactly what we needed for the track... it may be just what is needed sometimes....
Old 29th May 2010
  #5
I know a number of guys who swear by Dynacomps as mix inserts. Never really did it for me, though.

On the other hand, patching in a distortion pedal or two on a send can add some really cool color options.
Old 29th May 2010
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bgrotto View Post
I know a number of guys who swear by Dynacomps as mix inserts. Never really did it for me, though.

On the other hand, patching in a distortion pedal or two on a send can add some really cool color options.
I have used MXR DynaComps since they came out in the '70s and I have tried them on inserts.
They are a case of a pedal type box that DOES have more headroom than you would think.
They are so-so, but at the time I also had a pair of UA 176s and a blue stripe 1176s!
It is tough to compare the DynaComp with those!

I do use a DynaComp on clean GTR stuff, but I modded the attack time years ago.
I have no idea what I did to modify it.
It was WAYYYYYYY too slow.
A un-modded DynaComp might work on drums if you wanted the initial crack/stick hit to poke through at the front of the sound.
Old 29th May 2010
  #7
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travisbrown's Avatar
I'd match a Keeley 4-knob compressor against many rackmount hardware comps on any variety of input material. It's a pretty stellar piece of gear.

You could probably take the guts and stick in a 1u box and be perfectly happy with it in the studio. Even better if you could link them.

That's got me thinking....
Old 29th May 2010
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by travisbrown View Post
I'd match a Keeley 4-knob compressor against many rackmount hardware comps on any variety of input material. It's a pretty stellar piece of gear.

You could probably take the guts and stick in a 1u box and be perfectly happy with it in the studio. Even better if you could link them.

That's got me thinking....
The Keeley is basically a Ross compressor with better grade components.
I think that the four knob version is the same basic circuit with an extra few controls added.

There are only so many circuits that will effectively do a given job, so this is why the stomp boxes and the rack mount pieces are so close.
Yeah... it DOES make you think.... if you think about it.
Old 29th May 2010
  #9
I feel a blind taste test coming on...


heh
Old 29th May 2010
  #10
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Well, when you get into mondo compresso mode and start doing drastic things you can "bend" the original with about any compressor and get something "interesting" (depending on how liberal your tastes are.)
Old 29th May 2010
  #11
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taturana's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbbubba View Post
Well, when you get into mondo compresso mode and start doing drastic things you can "bend" the original with about any compressor and get something "interesting" (depending on how liberal your tastes are.)
mondo compresso mode... good way to put it.....hehhehheh
Old 29th May 2010
  #12
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Faderjockey's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dbbubba View Post
Well, when you get into mondo compresso mode and start doing drastic things you can "bend" the original with about any compressor and get something "interesting" (depending on how liberal your tastes are.)
Yeah I wonder what pedal company came up with the blend feature on their compressor first?
Old 29th May 2010
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Faderjockey View Post
Yeah I wonder what pedal company came up with the blend feature on their compressor first?
Yeah but... blend isn't anything new.
It is just the same as multing to two channels on a console and have one with a compressor and one without and blending the two.
Old 30th May 2010
  #14
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Faderjockey's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dbbubba View Post
Yeah but... blend isn't anything new.
It is just the same as multing to two channels on a console and have one with a compressor and one without and blending the two.
Of course.. I was just pointing something out (in one of our pedals that goes without credit a lot) and being a smart ass... What's new.
Old 30th May 2010
  #15
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travisbrown's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Faderjockey View Post
Yeah I wonder what pedal company came up with the blend feature on their compressor first?
Dunno. When did your compressor come out?

There are a few other pedals know of with blend.

Pigtronix and Wampler come to mind.
Old 30th May 2010
  #16
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travisbrown's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbbubba View Post
The Keeley is basically a Ross compressor with better grade components.
I think that the four knob version is the same basic circuit with an extra few controls added.
The 4-knob is the same as 2-knob, but with two internal trim pots moved from the inside to the outside. So yeah. I probably wouldn't use the two knob for anything except guitar.
Old 30th May 2010
  #17
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vicenzajay's Avatar
 

Did this once....

They're not inexpensive pedals, and (of course) they're not matched. However, two Demeter Compulator's on a L/R stereo set of signals sounds VERY, VERY nice if you take the time to level match the outputs. James Demeter did an awesome job of putting a LA-2A'ish circuit in a stompbox format, and it sounds awesome on program material.

Not something I'll do regularly, but it was fun (and quite revealing). I think a blind test would be very interesting.
Old 30th May 2010
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by travisbrown View Post
Dunno. When did your compressor come out?

There are a few other pedals know of with blend.

Pigtronix and Wampler come to mind.
2002

Here is a link to what Barry Cleveland said when GP reviewed the Tone Press, I thought it was awesome ofthe classic guitar magazine to review a product from a basement audio company like mine, that had never even grasped the concept of affording a guitar player mag advertisement.

I'm glad to see that the "all in one box" concept that we marketed as "parallel compression" has caught on so BIG! The only name I had heard for the studio technique was "new York Drum Compression", and I always loved the mixing technique, and it was the genesis concept for parallel compression as a "sales jargon" for an marketable product.

Barber Tone Press, Barry Cleveland

Last edited by David B; 30th May 2010 at 05:15 AM.. Reason: Added a fancy link
Old 30th May 2010
  #19
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vicenzajay's Avatar
 

Off topic...

David,

I'm sending you a pm....need to see about some help with my Linden EQ.

Cheers,
Jay
Old 30th May 2010
  #20
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travisbrown's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by David B View Post
2002

...

I'm glad to see that the "all in one box" concept that we marketed as "parallel compression" has caught on so BIG! The only name I had heard for the studio technique was "new York Drum Compression", and I always loved the mixing technique, and it was the genesis concept for parallel compression as a "sales jargon" for an marketable product.
You might have to fight Bob Katz for the neoligistic rights to the term 'parallel compression'. You both seem to have coined it in 2002. That's the year his mastering book came out.

Definitely hadn't seen a blend on a comp stomp box before 2002, though.
Old 30th May 2010
  #21
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by travisbrown View Post
You might have to fight Bob Katz for the neoligistic rights to the term 'parallel compression'. You both seem to have coined it in 2002. That's the year his mastering book came out.

Definitely hadn't seen a blend on a comp stomp box before 2002, though.
I looked up Bob Katz on Wiki, sorry I did not know who he is, and he gives credit to Richard Hulse in his book (thanks Wikipedia!)

I wont be "fighting" anyone for the rights, at this point it's just a ubiquitous term used to describe a specific technique or market a product. For me the genesis took place on a mountain bike ride, which is where I usually do my best thinking. I exhaustively searched the internet and publications before I used the bold "new term" to market the Tone Press way back when. I knew I could not market the Tone Press by saying "introducing New York Drum compression for your guitar!", so I went with "Barber Electronics introduces Parallel compression!". Maybe someone said the term around the same era, ya know, a million monkeys, with a million typewriters, typing for a million years, one of them is bound to type Shakespeare, ok maybe two...We're the smartest monkeys! heh

The only reference I found during TP development was to parallel gas lines (not audio stuff). It's everybody's term now so it's nothing to get bent about, but as far as I could ever tell, I was the first person marketing an audio device carrying the term, and knew of no other usage of the term in audio. I actually wanted a unique term so it would stand out. I really thought the parallel compression for guitar was going to be a tough sell to guitar players, and might fail (they resist change), the first few years were really tough, but people started taking notice after the Guitar Player article. For guitar players, hearing is believing, moving forward there will be many guitar compressors who take their cues from the Tone Press, it's progress! thumbsup
Old 30th May 2010
  #22
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travisbrown's Avatar
I'm not suggesting that anyone needs to 'get bent', nor insinuating you appropriated the term. Certainly possible for it to have entered the lexicon from two sources independently. I just remember Katz being credited with the term.

It's a pretty self-descriptive term, so not strange that you might have come up with it too. To be like-minded with Katz isn't a bad thing.

At least you didn't call it 'sidechain' like it was in the eighties. That's what I learned it as when I was doing live sound.
Old 30th May 2010
  #23
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Protools Guy View Post
Are you using it in the chain between your guitar and amplifier?
Hi there, Protolls Guy!
I took a signal from the outputs of my audio interface and sent in into the compressor pedal and sent the signal back into the instrument/di input of my Focusrite ISA 828.

What rack compressor would you guys recommened as a starting point which is a really good piece of gear and works on a lot of things and gives great results.

The bad thing about this whole thing is that I am really scared of using plugins now. I have no confidence i them after doing this and noticing that what I have tried to get out of my plugins for eight years was accomplished in seconds with an analog device.

Regards
Old 30th May 2010
  #24
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travisbrown's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ickefes View Post
Hi there, Protolls Guy!
I took a signal from the outputs of my audio interface and sent in into the compressor pedal and sent the signal back into the instrument/di input of my Focusrite ISA 828.
As long as you keep your levels right, this is fine. You may have to adjust for latency.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ickefes View Post
What rack compressor would you guys recommened as a starting point which is a really good piece of gear and works on a lot of things and gives great results.
Drawmer 241 or RNC. If you want to spend more, find a good used 1176LN. Hard to go wrong with that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ickefes View Post
The bad thing about this whole thing is that I am really scared of using plugins now. I have no confidence i them after doing this and noticing that what I have tried to get out of my plugins for eight years was accomplished in seconds with an analog device.
I suggest you might have not known what you were doing with the plugins. The differences between plugins and hardware are nuanced, not dramatic. For the most part it is a preference thing. You may have to work with them differently, but now many/most people use plugin comps and get great results just fine.

This being said, sometimes it is easier to understand what a plugin is supposed to be doing by first working with and understanding the hardware. Makes it much easier to conceptualize the sonic transformation.
Old 30th May 2010
  #25
Gear Nut
 

Well I have been tweaking plug-in compressors for years and rarely been 95% happy with them. Regards
Old 30th May 2010
  #26
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travisbrown's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ickefes View Post
Well I have been tweaking plug-in compressors for years and rarely been 95% happy with them. Regards
I have low standards. I'm good with anything even approaching 95% happiness.
Old 30th May 2010
  #27
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by travisbrown View Post
I have low standards. I'm good with anything even approaching 95% happiness.
Well then, let us lower the value down to 50%. "Better"? :D Regards
Old 30th May 2010
  #28
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Protools Guy's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ickefes View Post
Hi there, Protolls Guy!
I took a signal from the outputs of my audio interface and sent in into the compressor pedal and sent the signal back into the instrument/di input of my Focusrite ISA 828.

What rack compressor would you guys recommened as a starting point which is a really good piece of gear and works on a lot of things and gives great results.

The bad thing about this whole thing is that I am really scared of using plugins now. I have no confidence i them after doing this and noticing that what I have tried to get out of my plugins for eight years was accomplished in seconds with an analog device.

Regards
OK, I thought that was what you were doing, but i wasn't sure.
IMHO, the best bang for the buck is the Summit Audio TLA-100.
If that's over your budget, try the RNC.
If that's still too much, the Ashley SC-50 is hard to beat. I've seen them for $50 on Ebay and they are pretty darn good.
Old 1st June 2010
  #29
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Mr.HOLMES's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by travisbrown View Post
You might have to fight Bob Katz for the neoligistic rights to the term 'parallel compression'. You both seem to have coined it in 2002. That's the year his mastering book came out.

Definitely hadn't seen a blend on a comp stomp box before 2002, though.
Paralel compression is not a term relating to Mr.Katz.
Skip Burrows told me some history in audio.

Even the drums of "Ringo Star" went in parallel thru a Fairchild.

Its nothing new.
To use the words of Mr.Burrows:
"Engineers have been doing this a long long time"

Quote:
Originally Posted by travisbrown View Post
At least you didn't call it 'sidechain' like it was in the eighties.
Sidechain compression is something different as parallel compression.
In this case a different signal is triggering the compressor to work.

But my english is not good enough to explain side chain compression.
A good example is deessing.

De-essing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Old 1st June 2010
  #30
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Faderjockey's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.HOLMES View Post
Paralel compression is not a term relating to Mr.Katz.
Skip Burrows told me some history in audio.

Even the drums of "Ringo Star" went in parallel thru a Fairchild.

Its nothing new.
To use the words of Mr.Burrows:
"Engineers have been doing this a long long time"



Sidechain compression is something different as parallel compression.
In this case a different signal is triggering the compressor to work.

But my english is not good enough to explain side chain compression.
A good example is deessing.

De-essing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Yes.. We use to do that all the time.. Use like an old Audio Arts EQ and boost the signals we wanted to duck for dessing.. I still sort of do that now on bass and vocals. Even with plugins.
I have used our comp pedal tracking more then mixing.. But I have tried it while mixing..On a source that I would have used it on live but didn't. (not a vocal more like gtr/bass).
But when I did I tried it with a reamp I built.
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