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Input needed for small condenser mic shootout recordings Condenser Microphones
Old 11th June 2003
  #1
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Dot's Avatar
Input needed for small condenser mic shootout recordings

The Listening Sessions is going to record a bunch of pairs of small condensers next week. One of the sources will be drum OH's.

Question: On the drum recordings would you rather only hear the small condenser pairs - or would you also like to hear a certain amount of kick drum miked with a large dynamic mixed in?

The drummer will be playing a groove with fills.

Any input is appreciated!
Old 11th June 2003
  #2
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toledo3's Avatar
 

I would rather just hear them as is. Good luck
Old 11th June 2003
  #3
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Marshall Simmons's Avatar
 

don't forget schoeps, dpa, and joesophen


Since drum miking depends a great amount on placement of the overheads, can you just set them up in a coincident pair in front of the set? That would show us more what the sound of the mics are with a whole kit

Marsh
Old 11th June 2003
  #4
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Dot's Avatar
Quote:
Originally posted by Marshall Simmon

Since drum miking depends a great amount on placement of the overheads, can you just set them up in a coincident pair in front of the set? That would show us more what the sound of the mics are with a whole kit
Yes, Marshall, we're doing a bit o' preproduction this week and will definitely try that.

Quote:
don't forget schoeps, dpa, and joesophen
Here's the list - all pairs:

ADK A-51sc tube version modified by David Royer
AKG C451E
AKG C451B
AKG C1000S
Audio-Technica AT3031
Audio-Technica AT3032
Audio-Technica AT4041
Audix SCX-One
Behringer ECM8000
Bridge Microphones Proto 1 Cardioid
Bridge Microphones Proto 2 Omni
Crown CM700
DPA 4011 (3511 Stereo Kit)
DPA 4061
DPA 3530A - 2 X 4006
DPA 3521 w/ 4021's
DPA 3552 w/ 4052's
Earthworks QTC1
Earthworks SR77
Earthworks SRO
Groove Tubes GT 33
Groove Tubes GT 44
Josephson C-42MP
MBHO MBP 680
Mojave Audio MA100
MXL 603S
Microtech Gefell M300
Microtech Gefell M294
Neumann KM184
Oktava MC012
Pearl CC22
Pearl CO22
Red5 Audio RV4
Røde NT4
Røde NT5
Schoeps CMC64 MK4 ST
SE Electronics SE1
Shure KSM141/SL ST
Shure KSM137/SL ST
Shure SM81
Stapes Audio STO-2
Studio Projects C4
Superlux CM-H8K/U/H/O
Superlux ECM-99
T.H.E. KA-04
T.H.E. TT-3M
Old 11th June 2003
  #5
Gear Head
 
jbchef's Avatar
 

Hearing them as is.

Coincident pair as M. Simmons suggested.
I guess I won't mind an OH pair, I just would like to see consistency of miking with the same exact positioning with each pair.

Moko
Old 11th June 2003
  #6
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Dot's Avatar
OK, I'll flush this out a bit more. We have three sources: Acoustic guitar, 9' Steinway grand piano and a drum kit.

How would you like to see these instruments miked in order to get the best across-the-board recordings with all these mics?

Here's what I'm thinking:

Gtr: one mic at 14th fret off-axis approx 9" away and second mic between bridge and tailpiece - pointed towards bridge - approx 9" away.

Steinway: X/Y array just in front of the piano about the height of the top.

Drums: undecided at this point.

I can go in this week and try some placement experiments before the sessions next week.

Any thoughts are greatly appreciated.
Old 11th June 2003
  #7
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Dot's Avatar
Quote:
Originally posted by jbchef

I just would like to see consistency of miking with the same exact positioning with each pair.
Moko, we'll be placing all of the pairs of mics on a DPA Stereo Boom. We're going to be as anal as possible about consistent placement.

BTW, we'll be using a Millennia HV-3D for all of the recordings.
Old 11th June 2003
  #8
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Marshall Simmons's Avatar
 

Personally, when i use my schoeps for most stuff, i find that the omni (mk2) are smoother and sound a bit better then the cardiod (mk4)

However, if you are gonna end up doing a coincident pair, then you kinda have to use the cardiods


omni on acoustic is so good it hurts
Marsh
Old 11th June 2003
  #9
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Dot's Avatar
Marshall, that's a bit of the trick. We have cardioids and omnis.

Now, one possibility would be to record all of the cardioids in the same consistent position. But then switch the mic position for all the omnis to something else.

I'm open to ideas.
Old 11th June 2003
  #10
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fatty's Avatar
 

can i suggest you add the audio technica atm33 to the list?
Old 11th June 2003
  #11
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Dot's Avatar
Quote:
Originally posted by fatty
can i suggest you add the audio technica atm33 to the list?
Ha! Nope. Unless you have a pair you want to jet to me by this Saturday. : )
Old 11th June 2003
  #12
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Wiggy Neve Slut's Avatar
 

I know this sounds kinda outa line but also may be worthy of consideration is miking up Bass amp, electric GTR amp and doing some vocals. I have used KM-84 on grt and bass amps quite a few times and been pleasantly surprised.... small size dont mean small sound!

I know that it will prolly be more hassle to setup and there are more than enough mics to get through but it may be worthy of consideration.

PEACE
Wiggy
Old 11th June 2003
  #13
Gear Head
 
jbchef's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Dot

Steinway: X/Y array just in front of the piano about the height of the top.

Drums: undecided at this point.

I can go in this week and try some placement experiments before the sessions next week.

Any thoughts are greatly appreciated.
Dan,

I prefer an ORTF on the piano. Same with drums OH more than XY but that's just my taste.

Consistency will be very much appreciated!

Moko
Old 11th June 2003
  #14
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Dot's Avatar
Wiggy, we do want to try some more sources, but we do have some time limitations as far as having this total collection all together at one time. The possibility of vocals has been on the table for a while though.

Moko, I've been thinking about an ORTF array for the cardioids and A-B stereo configuration for the omnis. Doing that for both the piano and the drums.

I just don't think there's going to be one configuration for both cardioids and omnis that's going to properly demonstrate these mics. So, things are leaning towards recording all cardioids in one consistent configuration and all omnis in another consistent configuration.

I appreciate the comments and thoughts. Keep 'em comin'.
Old 11th June 2003
  #15
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Dot's Avatar
I've got a similar thread here in George Massenburg's forum where Allan Speers posted:

Quote:
I strongly suggest using only ONE mic, not two. Even then, getting the mics in exactly the same position, and getting exactly the same performances from the musicians, will be tough. Trying to get exactly the same phase-relationship with each stereo pair will be impossible. A 2 cm difference could cause enough comb-filtering to negate the whole test.
He's also up for not only a kick mic, but a snare mic as well...
Old 11th June 2003
  #16
Moderator emeritus
 

It's a shame you can't get a pair of M-582's...
Old 11th June 2003
  #17
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littledog's Avatar
 

Dan -

My first instinct when looking at your mic list is that onis and cardioids should be tested seperately. As others pointed out, positioning is one concern.

But also because omnis will capture much more room sound (if mic'ed at the same distance form the source as the cardioids), trying to evaluate the omni tracks versus the cardiod tracks will be as much an exercise in deciding whether we like the sound of that particular room as it would be a comparison of the mics themselves.

I, for one, would probably just listen to the cardioids vs. the cardioids and the omnis vs. the omnis.
Old 12th June 2003
  #18
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Johnny B's Avatar
 

Gee, that's quite an impressive list, but if you are going to do some Studio Projects and Behringer mics, you may as well do some Cascade and Nady mics too.
Old 12th June 2003
  #19
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Dot's Avatar
littledog, I agree. Cardioids group together - probably ORTF array. And Omnis in an A-B stereo configuration.

Johnny B, Cascade's small condenser is the SE Electroncs SE1. Same exact mic from the Fielo factory in China. Nady said they were going to send some mics but never did - and I ain't gonna' chase 'em. The stock Feilo Chinese-made mics are well represented anyway.
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