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New AX Series from ADAM Studio Monitors
Old 29th September 2010
  #691
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big_Bang View Post
+1 thumbsup

This thread is so packed full of untrained ears, its scary!

Specially when they come and speak total nonsense, like its an art form of some sort, and proud of it
(loooool - I had some dude in this thread ask "why would anyone point a 57 straight into a blasting speaker?!?!
can you imagine that ?? LOOOL )

That is why I simply quit from responding altogether - people hear kick drum wooof, but dont understand that a LPF sweep down to 30Hz does NOT produce material above that freq, thinking its part of the material heh
I don't get it.
Your example of port noise on your kick sweep is in your ORIGINAL unrecorded sample of your kick drum (post 385). The buzz and rattle is in the sample at the same point as your recorded version. How can a sweep that is un-recorded but instead programmed in create port noise in the sample itself? Both un-recorded and recorded sample display the SAME buzz and rattle at the same point.
If sweeping down to 30hz means there can be no buzzing, why is it in your original sample with sweep. (the buzzing does dissapear on your sweep, and in your recorded version, but i don't know at what point this was in your sweep, all i know is it happens at the same time on both recorded and original).
Please explain if i am being stupid here.
Old 29th September 2010
  #692
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Why was a kick sample used anyway? Why not sine sweeps and/or short bursts? That would seem a lot more clinical and helpful, no? Ues a pure signal and be done with it.
Old 30th September 2010
  #693
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Ben F's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle_PL View Post
No. A7 at "0" had bumped heights:

iXBT:

A7X after correction is more neutral (+-2dB whole spectrum {from 58 Hz to over 20 khz}).

I will post measures from A7X when I back.
That makes sense I always had to knock the top end back when I used to have them. Do you know what EQ settings made the A7 more flat?
Old 30th September 2010
  #694
TC5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle_PL View Post
Measures from:
Badamy ADAMy A7X (recenzja) « 0dB.pl – twój poziom odniesienia

Lines from measures:
Red line - all at "0"
Purple line - high shelf -6 dB
Yellow line - high shelf +6 dB
Green line - tweeter level +4 dB
Blue line - tweeter level -4 dB



Below i added by "graphics interpolation" another lines (low shelf by operation manual plots):



And more "cleared":


I have compared ADAM A7X to APS IO (and not only). ADAM A7X without correction are HYPED ... so I think those measures don't lie. After correction (low shelf from -1,2 to -1,8, high shelf from -1,8 to -2,4) ADAM A7X sound more "flat" and more similar to APS IO (APS without any correction)

Measures and review (in polish) ADAM A3X :
ADAM A3X: mistrzostwo
Interesting. Thanks. The A7 curve does look flatter. Especially with that bump @ 80Hz on the Xs.
Old 30th September 2010
  #695
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TC5 View Post
Interesting. Thanks. The A7 curve does look flatter. Especially with that bump @ 80Hz on the Xs.
Do you have that curve? I couldn't find it even though I searched Google. I found only curves that people posted, but I don't know mow much I can trust them as this for example:
http://www.ixbt.com/proaudio/adam/a7/room-eq150hz.png
which indeed looks perfect to me, but it also says something about room eq, where the confusion comes from.
Old 30th September 2010
  #696
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsanibaytchev View Post
Do you have that curve? I couldn't find it even though I searched Google. I found only curves that people posted, but I don't know mow much I can trust them as this for example:
http://www.ixbt.com/proaudio/adam/a7/room-eq150hz.png
which indeed looks perfect to me, but it also says something about room eq, where the confusion comes from.
Perfect? ... look at the scale! At 18 khz You have ~3,5 dB bump, and at 450 hz -3dB or -2,5dB hole.

But if You will correcting hights in A7 maybe You will have +-2dB from ~80 Hz to ~22 khz (A7X had after correction +-2dB from ~58 Hz to ... maybe 30 khz ).
Old 30th September 2010
  #697
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My music style is pop/rock/blues, so at first I wasn't too worried about deep dance kick drum samples and sine sweeps.

But then I had a listen to that jazz band recording sample (back on page 12?).

I now realize this is a real-world problem and am also waiting for a definite report of a solution before buying. (In my case the A5X; but its the same port design)
Old 30th September 2010
  #698
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New AX Series from ADAM

Be aware that most Adam speakers start to roll off quickly below even though the spec says it supposed to go as low as 35hz.
In fact they are -15db at 35hz while 100 is around -3db .

This is why people who has their room untreated find Adam accurately while treated room find Adam lack of low end.

Yes , room makes that difference.
Old 30th September 2010
  #699
TC5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsanibaytchev View Post
Do you have that curve? I couldn't find it even though I searched Google. I found only curves that people posted, but I don't know mow much I can trust them as this for example:
http://www.ixbt.com/proaudio/adam/a7/room-eq150hz.png
which indeed looks perfect to me, but it also says something about room eq, where the confusion comes from.
That's the one I meant that Kyle posted. The white line with no correction.
Old 30th September 2010
  #700
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrisc_o View Post
Why was a kick sample used anyway? Why not sine sweeps and/or short bursts? That would seem a lot more clinical and helpful, no? Ues a pure signal and be done with it.
Your wishes have already been commandeered thumbsup

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/5567035-post348.html

Kick drums are more "real life" than sine sweeps (with/without) bursts for the majority, me not included.
I extensively use sinewaves, for example.

Here is a more in depth kick drum analysis and pulsating sine waves
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/5566244-post338.html
Old 30th September 2010
  #701
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TR-AXE View Post
Are you kidding me? These people clearly work for some one who has an interest in the sales.
Which is why I lost trust in all reviews. Paul White, for example, has lost his English objectivity. I used to like Sound on Sound magasine, but not anymore.
Old 30th September 2010
  #702
I just played some of those samples from both links through my KRK VXT 8's - I have never had any problem with port noise and I listen to lots of bass heavy material without and issue (and indeed quite a bit of pleasure).

I must say, something sounds fvcked in these samples - many of the kicks sounded like ass and seemed to be inherently flawed.

If I had to judge my speakers based on these samples I would think that they are crap - but they're not.

The Dave Hollands bass example seems to have a lot of buzz, like a snare is on by the mic or something - but is it port noise?.

On my speakers it sounds like the noise is coming out of the mid-range driver, not the port.

If this is indeed a port noise issue, I can throw in my 2 cents that it has never bothered me during actual tracking/mixing/playback on my KRK's - so maybe this is too clinical of a look at the Adams - not really a problem in reality perhaps?

I have certainly never heard my speakers sound bad until I tried these samples - maybe people using the Adam's would never encounter an issues without the torture test samples on this thread?

Here a bass staircase which may help the testing out: (I can hear a little of the same issue on the lowest couple of notes of the climb)

WARNING VERY LOW TONES AT START - USE LOW VOLUME PLAYBACK
Attached Files

Bass_staircase_test.mp3 (728.7 KB, 586 views)

Old 30th September 2010
  #703
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardtoe View Post
I just played some of those samples from both links through my KRK VXT 8's - I have never had any problem with port noise and I listen to lots of bass heavy material without and issue (and indeed quite a bit of pleasure).

I must say, something sounds fvcked in these samples - many of the kicks sounded like ass and seemed to be inherently flawed.

If I had to judge my speakers based on these samples I would think that they are crap - but they're not.

The Dave Hollands bass example seems to have a lot of buzz, like a snare is on by the mic or something - but is it port noise?.

On my speakers it sounds like the noise is coming out of the mid-range driver, not the port.

If this is indeed a port noise issue, I can throw in my 2 cents that it has never bothered me during actual tracking/mixing/playback on my KRK's - so maybe this is too clinical of a look at the Adams - not really a problem in reality perhaps?

I have certainly never heard my speakers sound bad until I tried these samples - maybe people using the Adam's would never encounter an issues without the torture test samples on this thread?

Here a bass staircase which may help the testing out: (I can hear a little of the same issue on the lowest couple of notes of the climb)

WARNING VERY LOW TONES AT START - USE LOW VOLUME PLAYBACK
Glad someone else is pointing out those kick samples as being dodgy. Got a bit tired of being poked fun at for pointing it out. Big Bang, as much as you amused me earlier in the thread (in a good way), less of the superiority eh? Your sample is flawed.
Old 1st October 2010
  #704
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mowmow's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardtoe View Post
Here a bass staircase which may help the testing out: (I can hear a little of the same issue on the lowest couple of notes of the climb)

WARNING VERY LOW TONES AT START - USE LOW VOLUME PLAYBACK
So, Is this the sample causing the port noise?
I don't hear any port noise on my A5X.
What are the first 2 frequencies?
In fact, first 2 notes don't pronounce loudly on my A5X, probably because they are pretty low.

I'm listening them pretty soft like 70db at 1 meter distance.
Old 1st October 2010
  #705
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A8X

I ORDERED AN ADAM A8X LAST WEEK AND IT ARRIVED TODAY. THATS WHY I WAS SO INTERESTED IN THE PORT NOISE AND WHAT OTHER PEOPLE HAVE TO SAY. I WENT TO G.C. AS I SAID EARLIER TO TEST OUT THE A7X AND OTHER SPEAKERS. I OWN A PAIR OF YAMAHA MSP7'S AND THATS WHAT I TEST THE NEW A8X'S BESIDE. BEFORE I CONTINUE I WOULD LIKE TO THANK HARDTOE . YOUR BASS TEST REALLY HELPED ME OUT TODAY. I TOOK DOWN MY MSP7'S AND HOOKED UP THE A8X AND THE SOUND WAS LIKE AN ANGEL SINGING IN MY ROOM. I HAVE FAIR TREATMENT AND THE SPEAKERS WERE, ALL I CAN SAY IS WOW. NOW ON TO THE ISSUE OF THE PORT NOISE. THERE IS PORT NOISE AS I STATED EARLIER WITH THE A7X AND A5X. THE A8X HAVE THE SAME RATTLE/PORT NOISE. I USED THE TEST HARDTOE GAVE AND THE FIRST 5 LOW NOTES SOUND LIKE A BABY WITH A VERY SMALL RATTLE WAS IN MY SPEAKER. JUST WHEN I WAS ABOUT TO RETURN THEM I DECIDED TO HOOK THE YAMMYS BACK UP AND DO THE TEST WITH THEM. THE YAMMYS ALSO HAVE THE FRONT PORT DESIGN. GUESS WHAT? THE YAMMYS ALSO HAD PORT NOISE. THE SAME PORT NOISE. I THINK IT'S A DESIGN FLAW OR MAYBE NOT. YOU CAN HEAR WIND OUT DOORS AND YOU CAN HEAR THE WIND COMING OUT OF THE PORTS. I LISTEN TO THE SPEAKERS FOR 5 HOURS OR 6 AND NOT ONCE WAS I DISTRACTED BY THE PORTS. I ONLY HEARD THE SOUND WHEN I DID THE TEST OR PUT ON A TRACK THAT I NEVER MIXED. MY ADAMS ARE HERE TO STAY. THE GOOD OUT WEIGH THE BAD, WHICH IS NOT A BAD. I THINK THE PEOPLE WHO DONT WANT PORT NOISE SHOULD JUST GET A SPEAKER WITH A REAR PORT OR NONE AT ALL. THE ADAM A8X'S ARE THE WAY TO GO. POWER IN ADBUNDANCE AND NO SUB NEEDED. THE LOW END IS THE TRUTH{ TRUTH MEANING PLENTY OF IT} I WOULD SPEND ANOTHER 900 DOLLARS EACH. DONT LISTEN TO ME. GO CHECK THEM OUT BUT ALSO CHECK OUT OTHER MONITORS WITH A FRONT PORT DESIGN.

P.S. I DONT WORK FOR ANYONE, MY OPINON IS NOT HOW YOUR MUSIC WILL TRANSLATE. IM NOT A PROFES., IM JUST A GEARSLUT AND A 1 YEAR MUSIC PRODUCER. THE SPEAKERS ARE GREAT. IF I HAD TO SAY SOMETHING BAD ABOUT THEM I WOULD COMPLAIN THAT THEY ARE NOT SHIELDED. I HOPE THAT DOES'NT BECOME AN ISSUE. THESE SPEAKERS WERE LOUD. I HAD TO PUT THEM ON 2 CLICKS FOR COMFORT.
Old 1st October 2010
  #706
Quote:
Originally Posted by mowmow View Post
So, Is this the sample causing the port noise?
I don't hear any port noise on my A5X.
What are the first 2 frequencies?
In fact, first 2 notes don't pronounce loudly on my A5X, probably because they are pretty low.

I'm listening them pretty soft like 70db at 1 meter distance.


The bass steps begin at 40hz. Pretty low indeed for a 5" speaker - I only barely get them on my VXT 8's....
Old 1st October 2010
  #707
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mowmow's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardtoe View Post
The bass steps begin at 40hz. Pretty low indeed for a 5" speaker - I only barely get them on my VXT 8's....
Thanks Hardtoe for that information!
40Hz is close to low E on bass isn't it?
This is the only thing I feel I'm missing with my A5X because
I don't hear the lowest E on base.
I guess I just have to guess that note has enough volume.
Old 1st October 2010
  #708
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Big_Bang's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kedbear View Post
Big Bang, as much as you amused me earlier in the thread (in a good way), less of the superiority eh? Your sample is flawed.
kedbear, sorry if I came out sounding that way, it was not intended - just tired and frustrated.

Not trying to be superior at all. But this whole issue is getting out of hand simply because people are writing posts and alot of misinfomation is flying around.

I hope you guys understand that those samples are actual recordings of the speaker producing the problem, not pure rendered samples!

Because of all the confusion I made the LPF sweep test exactly to eliminate all possibilities of "bad choice of kick drum", but mainly to show how many many kick samples have a hi-mid component that completely masks the port noise. I even mentioned a mix I did with great forward thrust, only to loose it translating, the punch certainly did go down. Part of the punch I sensed was the port noise. (again, which people confuse for rattles)

For instance, the 909'sh kick has a very distinct "beater" sound. So as the sweeps filters the content down to the sub-low area, you can can hear the port producing both the low end "wooosh" sound from normal excessive air being gushed out, but ALSO a hi-mid "beater rattle" produced by the flutter echo as it travels through the port. So, when the LPF sweep goes down below, say 100Hz, and you distintly hear 600Hz and up "audio" coming out from the speakers... where does that come from? That is the point of that test.

That is exactly why ADAM is acknowledging the issues and making the flanges!! If not, why dare even mention it?

It is a design "flaw"... I bet you all the flanges will make the port asymetrical or non-cilindrical (eliminate helmoltz phenomena)... the bad part of the port noise is not the expected low end "wooosh" of air... its the hi-mid flutter echo/quasi-helmoltz ressonance formant, because the port is a perfect cylinder!

The rattles themselves (in my experience) are very very low volume when the speakers are being pushed a little, and not at all detected faced forward to them. In early testing I completely misjudged these "port rattles" for mechanical rattle (production defect, loose screws, wiring beating here and there) - that is not the case.

Again, sorry for sound like an ass, but we MUST be more objective in our analysis, for sanity's sake. People come and openly say they dont have the port noise when hearing complex material... of course not! Its masked! Why would ADAM make them flanges if it were random defect for random customers?

Design flaws affect everyone.
Old 1st October 2010
  #709
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I don't know if this has been asked already but won't the addition of a flange to the port effectively re-tune the entire cabinet? Adding to the area of the port and subtracting from the actual cab volume will ultimately mess with low frequency extension, won't it?

Wouldn't the entire port need to be replaced to properly perform such a task?
Old 1st October 2010
  #710
Gear Nut
 

Hopefully the bass will remain as is, with the flange !

if not then I will kill all here of the Rattle-Group fuuck
Old 1st October 2010
  #711
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big_Bang View Post
kedbear, sorry if I came out sounding that way, it was not intended - just tired and frustrated.

Not trying to be superior at all. But this whole issue is getting out of hand simply because people are writing posts and alot of misinfomation is flying around.

I hope you guys understand that those samples are actual recordings of the speaker producing the problem, not pure rendered samples!

Because of all the confusion I made the LPF sweep test exactly to eliminate all possibilities of "bad choice of kick drum", but mainly to show how many many kick samples have a hi-mid component that completely masks the port noise. I even mentioned a mix I did with great forward thrust, only to loose it translating, the punch certainly did go down. Part of the punch I sensed was the port noise. (again, which people confuse for rattles)

For instance, the 909'sh kick has a very distinct "beater" sound. So as the sweeps filters the content down to the sub-low area, you can can hear the port producing both the low end "wooosh" sound from normal excessive air being gushed out, but ALSO a hi-mid "beater rattle" produced by the flutter echo as it travels through the port. So, when the LPF sweep goes down below, say 100Hz, and you distintly hear 600Hz and up "audio" coming out from the speakers... where does that come from? That is the point of that test.

That is exactly why ADAM is acknowledging the issues and making the flanges!! If not, why dare even mention it?

It is a design "flaw"... I bet you all the flanges will make the port asymetrical or non-cilindrical (eliminate helmoltz phenomena)... the bad part of the port noise is not the expected low end "wooosh" of air... its the hi-mid flutter echo/quasi-helmoltz ressonance formant, because the port is a perfect cylinder!

The rattles themselves (in my experience) are very very low volume when the speakers are being pushed a little, and not at all detected faced forward to them. In early testing I completely misjudged these "port rattles" for mechanical rattle (production defect, loose screws, wiring beating here and there) - that is not the case.

Again, sorry for sound like an ass, but we MUST be more objective in our analysis, for sanity's sake. People come and openly say they dont have the port noise when hearing complex material... of course not! Its masked! Why would ADAM make them flanges if it were random defect for random customers?

Design flaws affect everyone.
Ok - I understand now - the noise is in the samples which is why it came out of the mid drivers on my speakers.

That does suck - It is really distracting and clearly an issue to be addressed.

Sorry for throwing things off course...Hope the flanges clear things up.....
Old 1st October 2010
  #712
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losvlados's Avatar
I have use the old Adam A7 for 2 years and 3 months ago i have try the new A7 model and for me the old model is beter whit a litle setting changes.
Old 1st October 2010
  #713
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My last reply to chrisc o

Homie you should take your own advice. Maybe next time you should P.M. the person you have something negative about. Its not what you say its how you say it and any one would have took your post offensive. If you post something thats off topic and not helpful expect someone to put you back in line. Done. Now i have the Adam A8X's they do have a very very small rattle but as i stated earlier my yammys Msp7's do the same thing. Its a front port design. The sound is in no way distracting and i don't hear it when i play music. I decided to keep mine, well at least for the better of the 30 day return policy. I love them so far.
Old 2nd October 2010
  #714
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kedbear View Post
I hear the same noise in both your rendered sample (in post 385) and your recorded sample (post 382), and they happen at the same time, which led me to believe that the port noise type sound you were hearing in 385 is already in your rendered sample, whilst in your recorded version it is simply the same noise but amplified. So are you saying that the sample in post 385 is also 'recorded'? This lead me to believe your original rendered sample is floored as a testing device because it exhibits the same noise already.
Hey, kedbear, no problem at all... but there have been TR-AXE's all the way from the start of this thread and its getting really tiresome. Unbelievable, post 11 and already starting a war. 1 year as a 'producer' and comes here like audio-superman...

NOOOOOO LOOOL - GS is seriously getting polluted

Again - i think you fell in the same ''trap'' as I did heh Let me try to explain.

Go through 385 again on a good pair of headphone, NOT your speakers...
otherwise you will not be able to distinguish the recorded A7X phenomena vs rendered track, and will essentially be duplicating the effect

2 or three times, really. Listen very very carefully from second 35 onwards, where the filters push back out again, and you start hearing the low end come up, fills the gap, then you start hearing the mids, until you hear the skin being beaten...

Now listen to 382. at precisely starting second 35 , after you hear me 'snif' and say ''ahhh'' (lol, just to show how low in volume they were) you will distinctly hear at mark 40secs a hi-mid very-fast ''krrrk krrrk krrrk'' sound

And as the filter start pushing back, it DISAPPEARS, or better, starts morphing into the actual sound of the kick drum - like magic! - it is completely gone at second 52.

THAT is the BAD sound port noise, easily confused as rattle (with continuous sinewaves) or just not noticed because it is so easily masked (with fast transient kicks etc)

Again, with headphones, even crappy one at that like I'm on right now, refer back to post 338 and listen to (well, any really) example called ''A7 L - 12dB.mp3''

Starts with a pulsating sine, then half way through it changes to continuous sine. Right off at the start you hear flutter sounds '' pppprrrrrk '' and then as it goes up its gone, then it appears again, then its gone, then its there...

On the continuous sweep, at the same exact freqs they show up and go away.

Conclusion, these are a direct result of a helmoltz formant ressonance that flutter echoes out that port, at very precise harmonic/octaves, due the precise diameter of the port. Adam are calculating this exact point to attack it with the flange. It could very well just be a diagonal piece of plastic right down the middle, could be a triangle base oblique to the straight angle of the port, anything to disrupt this formation... get rid of the perfect ''coca-cola nozzle'' cylinder. It will not harm the low end, just not permit that at the (x) specific frequency (and its subsequent harmonic/octaves) make the port ''rattle'' (I hope - this obviously is just my theory on the subject)
Old 2nd October 2010
  #715
Some bickering - knock it off or risk a ban!
Old 2nd October 2010
  #716
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Can i use both the xlr and rca inputs at the same time?
Old 4th October 2010
  #717
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TopQuark View Post
I had mine for couple of months now. Bought them from American Musical.

No port noise here.
That is where I have my order placed as well. I ordered on 9/6. ETA for more was 9/28. I wasn't lucky enough to be included in that order. Now more are supposed to arrive on 10/25. Maybe I'll have them by November...

TopQuark, how long were your's on order?
Old 4th October 2010
  #718
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mowmow View Post
So, Is this the sample causing the port noise?
I don't hear any port noise on my A5X.
What are the first 2 frequencies?
In fact, first 2 notes don't pronounce loudly on my A5X, probably because they are pretty low.

I'm listening them pretty soft like 70db at 1 meter distance.
Good to know.

I have now ordered myself a pair of A5X - and immediately Thomann's website switched to none in stock! (grey) :(
Old 5th October 2010
  #719
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kingofswing's Avatar
AX series look cool...

Just placed an order on a pair of Adam A3x to use with my portable system - Macbook Pro / Logic 9 setup.

Can't wait
Old 5th October 2010
  #720
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Youre gonna love it... their size to performance ratio baffles me...
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