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New AX Series from ADAM Studio Monitors
Old 26th September 2010
  #661
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsanibaytchev View Post
That's great! I hope mine won't have problems too, because I already ordered them. Hey, Kyle, where did you get yours from? Thomann?
I get mine from :
music store - sklepmuzyczny.pl - Adam Audio Adam A7X - internetowy sklep muzyczny
Old 26th September 2010
  #662
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Finally got mine yesterday! Pleased to report no port noise here.
Old 26th September 2010
  #663
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Everyone definitely has port noise, I am sorry to say. It just gets masked very very easily with complex material.

Please take into account there are two phenomena that are occurring, one is port noise, the other is rattles. Rattles are a defect, that so far people have attributed to internal wiring/loose srew/general internal ressonance, not easily picked up because its low volume, but easily detected listening to the speaker from behind into the backplate.

Port noise CAN SOUND like rattles, but is more than that.

Port noise is a design ''flaw'', that is not detected with most material. Easy to pick up with low end quick transient (kick drum) or continuous low end material that start to ''flutter echo'' through the port producing both a ''wosh wosh'' sound, as a higher pitch ''rattely'' sort of sound.

For instance, when hearing through metal kicks with the typical 5-7khz beater sound, the port noise can be completely masked and undetected. A 909'ish beat also for instance.

Get a 26'' inch closed back ''Bonham'' beat going and you will pick it up. Fire up the whole drumset or mix and its ''gone''!

That is exactly why Adam is preparing those flanges (which I actually proposed in the beginning of the thread after full analysis of phenomena, but deleted the post and went berserk in rage/insane in ranting/disbelief at how pronounced it was in my case, even at such low volume)

go to page 13, post 385
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/new-p...s-adam-13.html

I rendered a kick drum loop, and did LPF sweep all the way down and up.
Listen to it through headphones first, really, its not that long, get accuaninted with the sound. Then play it through the speakers, turn volume midway, no need to crank, and listen. wosh wosh and ''rattle rattle''... a couple of posts before (post 382) I mic'ed up the speaker to record the same loop - at scary low volumes you can very easily hear it.

If it were a defect, ADAM would call in units, refund, or swap.
Not produce flanges to attenuate the common side-effect of this type of speaker design.

ADAM ROCKS (though) !!
Old 26th September 2010
  #664
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big_Bang View Post
Everyone definitely has port noise, I am sorry to say. It just gets masked very very easily with complex material.

Please take into account there are two phenomena that are occurring, one is port noise, the other is rattles. Rattles are a defect, that so far people have attributed to internal wiring/loose srew/general internal ressonance, not easily picked up because its low volume, but easily detected listening to the speaker from behind into the backplate.

Port noise CAN SOUND like rattles, but is more than that.

Port noise is a design ''flaw'', that is not detected with most material. Easy to pick up with low end quick transient (kick drum) or continuous low end material that start to ''flutter echo'' through the port producing both a ''wosh wosh'' sound, as a higher pitch ''rattely'' sort of sound.

For instance, when hearing through metal kicks with the typical 5-7khz beater sound, the port noise can be completely masked and undetected. A 909'ish beat also for instance.

Get a 26'' inch closed back ''Bonham'' beat going and you will pick it up. Fire up the whole drumset or mix and its ''gone''!

That is exactly why Adam is preparing those flanges (which I actually proposed in the beginning of the thread after full analysis of phenomena, but deleted the post and went berserk in rage/insane in ranting/disbelief at how pronounced it was in my case, even at such low volume)

go to page 13, post 385
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/new-p...s-adam-13.html

I rendered a kick drum loop, and did LPF sweep all the way down and up.
Listen to it through headphones first, really, its not that long, get accuaninted with the sound. Then play it through the speakers, turn volume midway, no need to crank, and listen. wosh wosh and ''rattle rattle''... a couple of posts before (post 382) I mic'ed up the speaker to record the same loop - at scary low volumes you can very easily hear it.

If it were a defect, ADAM would call in units, refund, or swap.
Not produce flanges to attenuate the common side-effect of this type of speaker design.

ADAM ROCKS (though) !!
the "port noise" on that kick sample was in the original sample itself. I never thought that was a good example personally. The better one was the LF sweep. My a7x have port noise but both are at exactly the same point so i imagine it is to the original design spec. Hopefully the flanges will help a bit...
Old 27th September 2010
  #665
Here for the gear
 

The port noise

I went to my local g.c. And i demo a pair of a7x's. You can clearly hear the rattle. I checked the same songs with all the other speakers and no rattle. Im looking at the hs80m now. I hope they come out with an mk2 version soon. Why should we put flangers in the ports? The idea of getting them over the old a line is because of the deeper bass. No good. On to the next. I would have to say the music that came out of them blew me away. They were by far the best sounding. Its just that darn rattle. To distracting.
Old 27th September 2010
  #666
Gear Head
 

Tested A7X vs A7 vs BM5A MK2 vs HS80M

Just got back from testing Adam A7x vs A7 vs BM5A vs HS80M for about 3hrs. Tested them at GC, but since im the pro audio manager there i was able to test them where and how i wanted to in order to really hear the differences (Tested in the studio room and much larger live room) and this is what i have found IMO...

1. Yamaha HS80m's (Just bought a pair, but now going to bring back to get.... you will see... lol).
-Forward mids
-Great sub low end, but lacking punch
-A bit muddy on the low mids
-Hi's are a little on the sharp side (Sort of shrill/harsh/crunchy)
These would be great for production with a litte bit of mixing or electronic music, a little harsh to listen to for extended periods of time (Wouldnt really mix on them). If this is all you can afford, these are the best speakers you would get for the price... if u can afford more, then buy better.

2. Dynaudio BM5A MKII
-Much smoother hi's than the HS80's
-Much more punchy, but a bit muddy
-More pleasant to listen to, but not as detailed as i would have liked
Could see myself using these for production as well with a little bit of mixing, again, not as detailed as i would have liked but close.

3. Adam A7
-Very clear in all freqs
-Great imaging
-Detailed hi's but not overly harsh
-Very punchy, but not in the way (Lacking deep lows... I wish there was more, but they are present how i feel they should be on near field MONITORS, not like on your hi fi. Could still hear all the detail needed to properly mix)
The A7 was definately the speaker out of the bunch that showed me EVERYTHING wrong on a not so good mix and what needed to be changed, but on well mixed music it was... well beautiful. Would help to easily tell you when your mix is where it should be and translates VERY well to how id say about 70-90% of people listen to their music (ie ipods, computer speakers, iffy car stereos, or mid range stereos).

4. Adam A7x
-Smooth hi's and a bit louder tweeter than the previous A7
-Great imaging
-Much more low end, but in all honesty, it covered some of the punchy detail as well as a super tiny bit on the mids, so i dont see the added low end as real big plus for me
-Much louder that the previous A7, you can really turn this one up
-When tested in the live room vs A7, it was a bit more pleasing to listen to, but again, not neccissarily a good thing
The new Adam A7x definately sounds better than its older brother A7, but to me it covered up a lot of the things i would be buying a monitor of this price to tell me. Would use this more for playing back to the client for them to fall in love with the mix, rather than to show me how my mix is. (And sadly to say i had to send one monitor on repair for what a lot of people have reported as port noise and rattling. I personally dont hold that against Adam since they make great speakers, they just need to fix it. Point blank.)

For my little test, I settled on the original Adam A7's. I care more about my mix sounding correct and translating well, rather than everything sounding good and possibly being misled. I am returning my HS80's i just picked up, and ordering the original A7's. As far as the new A7x's go, yes they add more low end, but make sure this wont get in the way of your MIX. Hope my test and oppinion helps those who were researching and going back and forth for months on these monitors as I was lol (Remember, this is all in my own personal oppinion. The best test for which speakers are best for YOU are YOUR ears, understanding a bit about how your audience listens to their music, and hopefully testing in a room that wont decieve you haha)
-G.I.
Old 27th September 2010
  #667
Here for the gear
 

Thank you General,

I just wish you posted this a week earlier. Just one question. You said A7X's tweeter was louder than A7's, but didn't you notice it to be more revealing in detail, also, as revealing more bad things in your mix, or you just spotted it as pleasing sounding all the time. That is important to me, as I will listen to these speakers this Saturday and probably will buy them. Unfortunately the store doesn't have A7 anymore.

Also, I'd like everybody here who has that port noise problem if they could tell me of some tracks of music that sounds terrible and that provokes this port noise on Adam A7X, so that I can find that music, burn it on a CD for my reference when I go to listen to the speakers this Saturday. Perhaps something like Marcus Miller will sound bad, or may be lower sounding bass, or acoustik music with double bass, but if you know definetely some names of artist and song that provokes this noise then I would be grateful.

I would appreciate that alot. I don't want to buy speakers that I will have to return after that, as I live 3000km from that store in another country.

Thank you very much for your help in advance!
Old 27th September 2010
  #668
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...and should anyone have the A5X:

I plan to get a pair end of this month, so any user experience; esp. "do the sweep samples provoke rattling and/or port noise", would be most welcome.
Old 27th September 2010
  #669
Here for the gear
 

Adam ax

The speakers rattle. I hope adam will address the issue. I stood in my local g.c. For about 5 hours listening to the hs80m, a7, a5x, bm6a, bx8a and the a7x. It came down to the hs80m and the a7x. The a7x's blew the old ones away by a long shot. Some of these guys work in stores and get commision. The new x series has a rattle. They need to be fixed and they will be the best i heard in the price range. The old a7's are great but very little low end.
Old 27th September 2010
  #670
TC5
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TC5's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by The General View Post
4. Adam A7x
-Smooth hi's and a bit louder tweeter than the previous A7
-Great imaging
-Much more low end, but in all honesty, it covered some of the punchy detail as well as a super tiny bit on the mids, so i dont see the added low end as real big plus for me
-Much louder that the previous A7, you can really turn this one up
-When tested in the live room vs A7, it was a bit more pleasing to listen to, but again, not neccissarily a good thing
The new Adam A7x definately sounds better than its older brother A7, but to me it covered up a lot of the things i would be buying a monitor of this price to tell me. Would use this more for playing back to the client for them to fall in love with the mix, rather than to show me how my mix is. (And sadly to say i had to send one monitor on repair for what a lot of people have reported as port noise and rattling. I personally dont hold that against Adam since they make great speakers, they just need to fix it. Point blank.)

-G.I.
Wouldn't tweaking the low end eq at the back of the A7Xs achieve about the same sound balance as the A7s if the low end is actually taking away or masking some of the details you hear from the A7s? Has anyone with access to both models done that to see if they can match them?
Old 27th September 2010
  #671
Here for the gear
 

That's why I want the A5X - the A3X does not have this feature, and the A7X are just a bit too large for my situation.
And the A7X and higher do not have the link feature, which I think would be useful.

@TR-AXE:
I assume when you said you listened to the a5, you meant the a5x?
Or did your g.c. have the A5X?
Old 27th September 2010
  #672
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Suda Badri's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TC5 View Post
Wouldn't tweaking the low end eq at the back of the A7Xs achieve about the same sound balance as the A7s if the low end is actually taking away or masking some of the details you hear from the A7s? Has anyone with access to both models done that to see if they can match them?
We run our A7x, with slightly less bass but the differences in the models are still apparent... but thats got to do with our room rather than trying to match the models...

I dont think A7x's are pleasing, they are just more forward where the A7's dont push, as far as truth goes, the A7 is probably more closer to brutal honesty whereas the A7x's make mixing a little more fun and less about peering forever into a mix... but the truth is most definately in there to be worked with, no noise goes unheard....

The Sx series are enough to make you cry, a good mic, a good pre into an S3x sounds pretty spectacular...
Old 27th September 2010
  #673
TC5
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TC5's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suda Badri View Post
We run our A7x, with slightly less bass but the differences in the models are still apparent... but thats got to do with our room rather than trying to match the models...

I dont think A7x's are pleasing, they are just more forward where the A7's dont push, as far as truth goes, the A7 is probably more closer to brutal honesty whereas the A7x's make mixing a little more fun and less about peering forever into a mix... but the truth is most definately in there to be worked with, no noise goes unheard....

The Sx series are enough to make you cry, a good mic, a good pre into an S3x sounds pretty spectacular...
Thanks for the info. I bought the A7Xs on the strength of the A7's reputation for well translating mixes. I do hope the Xs aren't compromised in that area.
Old 28th September 2010
  #674
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Suda Badri's Avatar
 

It just depends on what they do for your mixes really, and with that much technology in that box there arent many compromises (port noise however, oversight maybe) if anything you are going to take away using the EQ not wish you had more, if you know what I mean.... I am saving up to get 5 a3x's and a sub 8heh
Old 28th September 2010
  #675
Here for the gear
 

My adam test

@GEARUSERTOO. Im sorry. Yes the speaker was the A5X. The A5X's also have the rattle. I tested all the speakers i named earlier. I will give credit were credit is do. The a5x's were sweet. They sound better to me than the original A7. The A5X's are very clear with the mids and highs. These speakers made me keep coming back to them every time i switched, However the rattle, the rattle, the rattle. They also had little low feq. Im stuck because i love the sound that comes out of all of the adams, It's just the "port noise". If there is a fix soon or even an mk2 version, Im on them. To hear the rattle, you have to play a bass heavy song. Try a song that uses whole notes on the low end. don't get me wrong i like the speakers but i want to love them. Please adam get rid of the port noise and make me happy. I would love to give you my money. I have to give it to adam. the speaker sounds so good that dispite the undisputed issue people are still buying them. lol. I would too but i dont want to get stuck with the flangers when adam fix the model.
Old 28th September 2010
  #676
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laboso's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TR-AXE View Post
These speakers made me keep coming back to them every time i switched, However the rattle, the rattle, the rattle. They also had little low feq. Im stuck because i love the sound that comes out of all of the adams, It's just the "port noise". If there is a fix soon or even an mk2 version, Im on them. To hear the rattle, you have to play a bass heavy song. Try a song that uses whole notes on the low end. don't get me wrong i like the speakers but i want to love them. Please adam get rid of the port noise and make me happy. I would love to give you my money. I have to give it to adam. the speaker sounds so good that dispite the undisputed issue people are still buying them. lol. I would too but i dont want to get stuck with the flangers when adam fix the model.
My experience, my opinion...
Old 28th September 2010
  #677
Here for the gear
 

Ok, I'm getting more and more confused. If you get the Sub 8 and the A7X will you still have that noise? I read that this noise is around 52 - 80 Hz. If the sub crossover is at 85hz then?

Another option. If you add a sub to A7 wouldn't you loose some of the mid detail as the sub freq will eat it?
Old 28th September 2010
  #678
If you have accurate bass representation, the bass will not obscure the mids.

If you are hearing this problem on your speakers when listening to professional releases, then it means that your room needs bass traps or you need to adjust for SBIR or both.

Once the speaker is calibrated to the room is the only time you can really begin to judge the speaker.

Testing them at GC does not tell you the story of the speaker in your room - there is only one way to find that out - listen to them in your studio.

It sounds like The General liked the sound of the way the original A7's sounded at GC. This does not mean that they are better speakers than the A7x or that they will translate better, are less boomy, whatever. It only means they sounded better in that circumstance to one listener.

This is something you really need to hear for yourself in your mix position to judge accurately - the room you are are mixing in is more than 50% of the sound of the monitoring.
Old 28th September 2010
  #679
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I found this on Adam's site, how would you comment it?

"Lots of things have happened in ADAM's past. The new X-ART tweeter reproduces the higher frequencies much better and also the woofer is able to produce a solid sound image, something that is a great improvement in contrast to the P11A (we haven´t had an A7 for comparison). [...] The mids' resolution has turned out well and the price is remarkable. Furthermore, the bass range is very tight, especially for this speaker´s measurements. However, for heavy depths a additional subwoofer is recommended. Another positive aspect is that the bass port noises, which could be found in the older P11A have been eliminated."

Here is the link:
ADAM Audio GmbH

They say the port noise has been eliminated, and people, at the same time, say it is more than ever!
Old 28th September 2010
  #680
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Have they manufactured new batches of A8X's minus the port noise?
Old 28th September 2010
  #681
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suda Badri View Post
I dont think A7x's are pleasing, they are just more forward where the A7's dont push, as far as truth goes, the A7 is probably more closer to brutal honesty
But A7X is correctable. Set high shelf filter at -2,4dB (4 clicks from "0") and low shelf filter at -1,2 dB (2 clicks from "0") - they are very pleasant after this, and more neutral.
Old 28th September 2010
  #682
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Suda Badri's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle_PL View Post
But A7X is correctable. Set high shelf filter at -2,4dB (4 clicks from "0") and low shelf filter at -1,2 dB (2 clicks from "0") - they are very pleasant after this, and more neutral.
Cool, thanks Ill try it out...
Old 28th September 2010
  #683
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle_PL View Post
But A7X is correctable. Set high shelf filter at -2,4dB (4 clicks from "0") and low shelf filter at -1,2 dB (2 clicks from "0") - they are very pleasant after this, and more neutral.
So, it sounds to me that I can make the A7X sound like A7 if I want, but I can't make the A7s sound like A7X.
Old 29th September 2010
  #684
TC5
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TC5's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle_PL View Post
But A7X is correctable. Set high shelf filter at -2,4dB (4 clicks from "0") and low shelf filter at -1,2 dB (2 clicks from "0") - they are very pleasant after this, and more neutral.
So would that curve match the A7 balance?
Old 29th September 2010
  #685
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TC5 View Post
So would that curve match the A7 balance?
No. A7 at "0" had bumped heights:

iXBT:

A7X after correction is more neutral (+-2dB whole spectrum {from 58 Hz to over 20 khz}).

I will post measurements from A7X when I back.
Old 29th September 2010
  #686
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsanibaytchev View Post
I found this on Adam's site, how would you comment it?
...
Another positive aspect is that the bass port noises, which could be found in the older P11A have been eliminated."

Here is the link:
ADAM Audio GmbH

They say the port noise has been eliminated, and people, at the same time, say it is more than ever!
In the test, Amazona.de compare the A7X to the P11A, not the A7.

ADAM P11A

As you point out, the A7 really had a reputation for port noise problems. Both A7 and P11a had single ports. The new A7X two-port design was supposed to solve this.

They say the noise is "eliminated". Makes you wonder how much time they had to really listen. Or possibly what we hear is a combination port nose AND rattling from poorly fitted components, and they presumably had a clean demonstration sample.

It looks more like a product release overview rather than one of their in-depth tests.
Old 29th September 2010
  #687
TC5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle_PL View Post
No. A7 at "0" had bumped heights:

iXBT:

A7X after correction is more neutral (+-2dB whole spectrum {from 58 Hz to over 20 khz}).

I will post measures from A7X when I back.
Great. Would be good to see the different graphs between the two.
Old 29th September 2010
  #688
Here for the gear
 

Are you kidding me

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsanibaytchev View Post
I found this on Adam's site, how would you comment it?

"Lots of things have happened in ADAM's past. The new X-ART tweeter reproduces the higher frequencies much better and also the woofer is able to produce a solid sound image, something that is a great improvement in contrast to the P11A (we haven´t had an A7 for comparison). [...] The mids' resolution has turned out well and the price is remarkable. Furthermore, the bass range is very tight, especially for this speaker´s measurements. However, for heavy depths a additional subwoofer is recommended. Another positive aspect is that the bass port noises, which could be found in the older P11A have been eliminated."

Here is the link:
ADAM Audio GmbH

They say the port noise has been eliminated, and people, at the same time, say it is more than ever!
Are you kidding me? These people clearly work for some one who has an interest in the sales. I read the the whole story in this link and it does not address the problem we are having with the model. Maybe you should post the solution to the problem because this is not it. The x series is a great speaker but it rattles and to a trained ear, Its like a screaming baby. You almost have to make your self block it out. Im not an expert by any means. Im just an adam lover who wants them to get it right.
Old 29th September 2010
  #689
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+1 thumbsup

This thread is so packed full of untrained ears, its scary!

Specially when they come and speak total nonsense, like its an art form of some sort, and proud of it
(loooool - I had some dude in this thread ask "why would anyone point a 57 straight into a blasting speaker?!?!
can you imagine that ?? LOOOL )

That is why I simply quit from responding altogether - people hear kick drum wooof, but dont understand that a LPF sweep down to 30Hz does NOT produce material above that freq, thinking its part of the material heh
Old 29th September 2010
  #690
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TC5 View Post
Great. Would be good to see the different graphs between the two.
Measurements from:
Badamy ADAMy A7X (recenzja) « 0dB.pl – twój poziom odniesienia

Lines from measurements:
Red line - all at "0"
Purple line - high shelf -6 dB
Yellow line - high shelf +6 dB
Green line - tweeter level +4 dB
Blue line - tweeter level -4 dB



Below i added by "graphics interpolation" another lines (low shelf by operation manual plots):



And more "cleared":


I have compared ADAM A7X to APS IO (and not only). ADAM A7X without correction are HYPED ... so I think those measures don't lie. After correction (low shelf from -1,2 to -1,8, high shelf from -1,8 to -2,4) ADAM A7X sound more "flat" and more similar to APS IO (APS without any correction)

Measurements and review (in polish) ADAM A3X :
http://0db.pl/2010/06/05/adam-a3x-recenzja/

Last edited by Kyle_PL; 29th September 2010 at 06:17 PM.. Reason: Adding another plots
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