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New AX Series from ADAM Studio Monitors
Old 8th July 2010
  #361
Here for the gear
 

X-ART Ribbon question

Hello everyone,

I just got my new A7X monitors which have replaced my A7's and I have noticed that the ribbon tweeter on one of them has folds that are not spaced evenly, at one point you can see a large gap between two of the folds. The ribbon tweeter on the other monitor looks just fine, as the folds are evenly distributed. My old A7's also had perfectly looking ribbon tweeters and this makes me wonder if this is a manufacturing flaw that could cause some kind of sound degradation or innacuracies in the reproduction, and direction/positioning of audio. Please tell me if you think that I should send the monitor back for replacement.

Thanks in advance
Old 8th July 2010
  #362
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Big_Bang's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by pronto View Post
Big Bang and his test i have to mention that its not fair to record a speaker with the mic placed 1 inch away.

in this case the mic behaves like a Stethoscope and the test becomes very unrealistic instead of to get a picture how it sound in the real world.
Ok, I'll go throw away all my 57's and guitar amps. 95% of all albums were recorded wwrong. Live sound is actually playback every time...

Look pronto, I like being a nice going dude. I woke up a while ago, new day, sun is up, stretched my muscles, had me a cup of coffee, angst is still there in my gut but not rage. Happy to be alive and with health!
Then I open the thread and yet again harness really negative feeling for a fellow human being. I dont like feeling like that, but you are an idiot.
the 1 inch is actual 1 cm, and THOSE FILE RECORDED THE BACK OF THE SPEAKER, which is a closed-back cabinet. The files recording the front were done at 15cm at 45º angle. This coming from a guy who replays a recording of rattle and very proudly affirms all 3 of his speakers rattle, so that must be ok ... loooooo

Why do you have to troll around here with ZERO pertinence?

What I did was not "science", it was basic audio engineering trouble-shooting. At least read what was done before filling this thread with garbage. I am here to participate, I hope, in detecting WTF is going on.

Port noise exists for sure. Just like mental ******ness. How would the world sound if the majority of humans were ********? Once in a while a faulty speaker comes out a production run. Just like in our specie. My speakers are faulty but still reproduce music. Same with you and audio engineering.
Old 8th July 2010
  #363
Here for the gear
 

“Rattling” / port noise with the A7X & A8X: short report from ADAM Audio

Hi again,

First things first: I would like to say a big thanks to everybody involved in this thread. That is not just being polite but simply the truth, we really appreciate all the feedback and comments.

We have excessively tested the A7X and A8X as well as compared them to quite a few monitors by other companies. The results in a nutshell:

1. There is no ‘rattling’, i.e. no mechanical flaw. If your monitor should actually ‘rattle’ it concerns this monitor and not the series. This could have been caused by an accident while transportation (box fell or alike) and it can and should be fixed.
2. There is some port/air noise (NB: could be confused with ‘rattling’ as!) that can be detected at specific lower frequencies. (That plus the fact that the noise isn’t at all noticeable with most music is the reason why most people haven’t and won’t even notice the port noise.) So, we directly compared the A7X and the A8X to many other models (of more or less the same size) by other companies. We found that all of them have port noise and some of them less than our models. The reason is simple: Measurably and audibly, our speakers have more (deeper) bass, they are capable of moving more air and thus have more port noise. To put it differently: One of the things that most people were so stunned about, the bass response you get with the AX models, comes with the side effect that there is more port noise.

Our R’n’D Department is on it. We’re not sure yet if there is a solution that really solves the problem while keeping both the quality and the quantity of the bass. As soon as we find something appropriate we’ll let you know. There are, of course, the ‘solutions’ of either plugging the tubes or using the shelve filter to minimize the port noise, but you would lose bass response, too.

I think it is only fair to mention that the overall feedback we get (and we do get a lot) concerning the AX models is nothing but enthusiastic and every single review on the AX monitors is a wealth of praise. That does not mean to dismiss the issue at stake but to put this thread into perspective.

Best regards,

Christian from ADAM
Old 8th July 2010
  #364
Lives for gear
 
Big_Bang's Avatar
 

Christian, good words, thanks.

Again, just to set the record straight. I love these speakers, they are astonishing. Things happen for sure, in the real world, there is not 1 company in existance that never experienced a faulty product or two, here and there. If it were a production run defect, thats another story. And clearly Adam is looking after their people, thank you.

It is absolutely true 90% of the music I played throught these speakers (and still DO !! just now, as I write, and everything sound wonderfull !!)

In my example recording, do you not consider port noise a bit excessive at such low volumes? These speakers are for music production, not reproduction. In essence, compromise, power them down, make woofer smaller and the cabinet+port bigger... Some people here have expressed the hardship of going through a simple kick drum library! Have you tried out a slow groove double bass jazz album?

Do you hear my speakers ratteling from the back plate recording?

Look, I dont want to be an ass about this, I just would like to settle my mind. Will you guys be giving us some measurments and values on this issue so we can compare between ourselves? Maybe even produce a test tone of some sort, created at your end under your control ? That would be a good starting point to evaluate if I am being over-zeallous of my expectations. Please do keep in mind I do music, but am involved too with long run studies of the human brain, where I have to create audio landscapes based primarily in isochronic and binaural beat tones, so long sessions with sinewaves...

because if I am being at all unfair about this, I would GLADLY rectract every single word I have said! Really!
Old 8th July 2010
  #365
Here for the gear
 

@Big Bang

Sorry, I need to dash but I don’t want to leave for today without replying to your last post. So just a quick one:

Yes, I do consider the port noise in your example recording to be excessive. That is one of the main reasons why I took and take this matter so serious and thus directly to the R’n’D department. I have shared the first test results with you and wait for more.

Yes, a recording of the rattling only would help.

Thanks for your efforts, feedback, and enthusiasm, Big Bang!

Christian
Old 8th July 2010
  #366
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Big_Bang's Avatar
 

Not at all !!

Thank you for straight forward excellent support !!



ps: I will PM you later and take this off the board,
I also have so questions regarding VLF and the tweeter resistance to sine sweeps
Old 8th July 2010
  #367
Gear Nut
 

anyone had experience of a3x and sub7?

thinking of picking them up, but slightly concerned about the port noise, particularly with bass-heavy music.
Old 8th July 2010
  #368
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johnnyjellybean's Avatar
 

Just found this thread....... I have had my S3X-H's for about 7 months now. I use them a lot and the volume tends to get quite loud here. About 2 months after I got them, while soloing bass I noticed a buzzing/rattling type of distortion. It wasn't pretty much inperceptable in the mix but noticable right away when solo'd. I called the distributor here in Canada who replaced all 4 woofers for me. Apparently there was some sort of issue with the earlier woofers and he told me I was getting a "revised speaker". Well it's been 5 months and there hasn't been an issue. Kudos to Diffusion Audio and to Adam for such a quick response and for fixing the problem right away.
Old 8th July 2010
  #369
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evosilica's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big_Bang View Post
These speakers are for music production, not reproduction.
thumbsup
Exactly what i think! And that seems to be the problem in this discussion.

There are 3 kinds of people here
A: People who listen to music on them
B: people who make music, sounddesign whatever on them
C: people who listen to testtones with prerecorded port-noises, make a complete fool out of themselves and then calling this discussion horsesh!t

I think it's clear, why people A don't have a problem with the speaker, hey they sound totally amazing on 99% of professional, well balanced music productions.

But people B will have a problem with port-noises at low levels, when designing a kick or a subbass sound or whatever.

And for C there is no help.

btw no need to apologize, it's clear to me that you have been sceptical when your speakers seemed to be "clean"

Quote:
Originally Posted by ADAMs_apple
There is some port/air noise (NB: could be confused with ‘rattling’ as!)
I'm pretty sure I am one of those, who confused air-noises as rattling. But honestly the air-noises from my ex-A8X were strange, not typical. My RP6 also produce air noises, but no disturbing sounding air noises like both A8X i had.
Old 8th July 2010
  #370
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big_Bang View Post
Ok, I'll go throw away all my 57's and guitar amps. 95% of all albums were recorded wwrong. Live sound is actually playback every time...

Look pronto, I like being a nice going dude. I woke up a while ago, new day, sun is up, stretched my muscles, had me a cup of coffee, angst is still there in my gut but not rage. Happy to be alive and with health!
Then I open the thread and yet again harness really negative feeling for a fellow human being. I dont like feeling like that, but you are an idiot.
the 1 inch is actual 1 cm, and THOSE FILE RECORDED THE BACK OF THE SPEAKER, which is a closed-back cabinet. The files recording the front were done at 15cm at 45º angle. This coming from a guy who replays a recording of rattle and very proudly affirms all 3 of his speakers rattle, so that must be ok ... loooooo

Why do you have to troll around here with ZERO pertinence?

What I did was not "science", it was basic audio engineering trouble-shooting. At least read what was done before filling this thread with garbage. I am here to participate, I hope, in detecting WTF is going on.

Port noise exists for sure. Just like mental ******ness. How would the world sound if the majority of humans were ********? Once in a while a faulty speaker comes out a production run. Just like in our specie. My speakers are faulty but still reproduce music. Same with you and audio engineering.



if your speakers are wrecked i dont understand why you make the whole world nuts instead of contacting directly the ADAM-support !

ADAM should double the price of the A7x . in a price range where people take care of their equipment.





.
Old 8th July 2010
  #371
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Suda Badri's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by evosilica View Post
thumbsup

B: people who make music, sounddesign whatever on them

But people B will have a problem with port-noises at low levels, when designing a kick or a subbass sound or whatever.
I think you need something in the Sx range if you are having that much problems, clearly your need is greater than the means... all good, I am glad you bought this to light, but its not an issue at all, ADAM have done many tests and if they can rule out mechanical error plus many many more people have vouched for their awesomeness compared with people with issues (who all know there's a 5 year warranty, so if you didnt break it, contact ADAM[and the weird amount of people joining the forum just to express their caution for ADAM])... BUT to say its impractical for sound design or making a kick drum boom is like a slap in the face because a lot of us try get great kick sounds and bass sounds, not just you, just look at how many producers have been pouring in with their praise... I have never experienced these rattle (A7x), (or I haven't noticed the rattle) so either you have a big room or you need higher spl's to do your work, which the Sx models will provide... if these speakers cant output at levels you want without rattling then is it time to upgrade? ofcourse these are simply my assumptions and we all know where they lead...
Old 8th July 2010
  #372
Qha
Gear Head
 

Brand new A7X's from Thomann arrived here in Finland an hour ago. No port noise here. I've tested Big Bangs A1 sample, and it doesn't have any resonance. If I put the volume very high, the room starts to shake before the monitors. Your recorded sample A2 sounds AWFUL, return them, that's not supposed to happen.

I love the sound, and the awsome clarity, gonna keep these. I have millenium stands that work very well with them without hearing any resonance.
Old 8th July 2010
  #373
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Suda Badri's Avatar
 

ANOTHER FIRST POSTER! HELL YEAH! Gearslutz on fire....
Old 8th July 2010
  #374
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ADAMs_apple View Post
Hi again,

Our R’n’D Department is on it. We’re not sure yet if there is a solution that really solves the problem while keeping both the quality and the quantity of the bass. As soon as we find something appropriate we’ll let you know. There are, of course, the ‘solutions’ of either plugging the tubes or using the shelve filter to minimize the port noise, but you would lose bass response, too.
Hi there.
IMHO leave them like that for now. i guess none want to loose bass response. anyway, if something must be done (looks like), don't rush.. i don't know exactly how to put it.... ok...
festina lente. don't go into those "6 months adjusments" like on previous.
it was an unpleasant experience for most people. not crucial but add shadows. and A series don't deserve bad light.

Regards.
PS absolute profan opinion: from Big_Bang samples (sry if redundant) looks like not the woofer is the main problem, but the cabinet or some alike.
Old 8th July 2010
  #375
TC5
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TC5's Avatar
 

Anyone know if using a sub helps alleviate the port noise issue on the A7x?
Old 8th July 2010
  #376
TC5
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TC5's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ADAMs_apple View Post
Hi again,


Our R’n’D Department is on it. There are, of course, the ‘solutions’ of either plugging the tubes or using the shelve filter to minimize the port noise, but you would lose bass response, too.


Christian from ADAM
I guess then Adam should produce some foam port hole plugs for those who may want that option.
Old 8th July 2010
  #377
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TC5 View Post
Anyone know if using a sub helps alleviate the port noise issue on the A7x?

if you have a for instance a switchable 85Hz high pass filter for the satellite output, then yes.
Old 8th July 2010
  #378
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evosilica's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suda Badri View Post
BUT to say its impractical for sound design or making a kick drum boom is like a slap in the face because a lot of us try get great kick sounds and bass sounds, not just you
Hey i did not want to generalize that. sorry if it came across that way.
But yes, to me it was a slap in the face, when i first noticed the noises.

So let me correct that statement:

Quote:
Originally Posted by evosilica
The 2 individual A8X i had in my room for 2 weeks sound totally awesome but are totally impractical for bass sound design or making a kick drum boom or anything below 68Hz due to port noises at low levels. Period.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suda Badri View Post
so either you have a big room
~35m², not untreated but could be better


Quote:
Originally Posted by Suda Badri View Post
or you need higher spl's to do your work, which the Sx models will provide... if these speakers cant output at levels you want without rattling then is it time to upgrade?
i guess i've said approximatly a 100000times now that i monitor very low and the problem is even at "zimmerlautstärke" as we say here. a level, where you can hear absolutely nothing in surrounding rooms. So who needs a speaker that can't output that level w/o noises?? how loud do other people monitor here? 40dB?


but hey, i'm tired now, all i want is noisefree A7,8X but it just makes no sense to discuss here anymore. This thread seems to be like:
Let's all praise ADAM!! What???? You hear noises on your holy ADAMs? Then treat your ADAMs right, fool and now GTFO, stupid basscranker. :D

So i guess it's time for me to leave this thread. I made my experience with A8X and i was trying to be helpful and share it. Take it or leave it.
Wish you all a nice day.
Old 8th July 2010
  #379
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I will ignore pronto because he clearly has no idea about... anything really... (dude, I once knew very little, but I never trolled to massage my ego, you´re making a fool out of yourself with every post. Stop it, participate with humility, and evolve - one day you could even pass on to others what you learn)

evosilica is right!!

That is EXACTLY why i openly said before I didnt trust his samples of port noise, because they were simply WAY to high pitched !! I didnt believe him and how wrong was I !!

To prove him wrong, I went ahead and "reproduced" his method with a 909-ish kick, and I became shocked, like... the world fell on me.
Generally, to have port noise you need to push the speaker, hey, absolutely justifiable and expected, but we are getting this at very low monitoring levels - this is totally unacceptable - BUT it seems only to affect some people, illogical and contradictory. Why ?

Some have tried my A1 sample without experiencing port noise at all... and port noise is a design feature, not material or assembly feature... so either everyone should, or no-one should - something funny is happening here

I really dont want to kick down on this marvelous product - but there are WAY too many contradictions, and I for one, do trust Adam's word for it.

What a "pronto" I would be to make decisions based on an internet forum.

I even bet some people

1 - misjudge port noise for standing waves and room rattling they didnt have before the upgrade to A#X's
2 - misjudge port noise for mechanical rattle ( I did !! because it was so atypically hi-pitched - my dave holland sample sound different to sinewave and 909 kick sound )
3 - have no clue what they are doing, nor have ears to pick it up from the source material

So I will a little longer for a definite response from Adam, and take it from there. Too many contraditions in opinions, and quite frankly, from what I have read of some people makes me doubt this ENTIRE thread. I trust the guys who are in the business of MAKING speakers for longer that gearslut exists.
Old 8th July 2010
  #380
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andy3's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by big_bang View Post

the guy before you, pronto, plays files with recorded rattles and thinks his speakers are ratteling themselves... And he thinks this discussion is horse ****. And above all, he is happy about it !! Who are you guys ?! is this for real ?!?!
AUHAUHAUHAUHAUHAUH I'm crying!!!
Old 8th July 2010
  #381
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Big_Bang's Avatar
 

Unbelievable isn't it... I would have laughed myself silly if I weren't in a rage at the time

Just had an idea that for sure proves a point.
I triggered my A1 sample and stuck three fingers up the port noise
(for those following this thread, if you can't fully have the STD girl, at least get away with some finger action LOL heh)
result, a even higher pitched port noise "harmonic" !!!

I went and triggered a regular rock acoustic kick. Then I LPF'ed and sweeped it slowly. At a VERY low volume. I also opened the window on the other side of my appartment to let some city sound in. A 57 about 1,5 meters away, and the pre at full throttle !
I left a small intro to prove I am not cheating nor exagerrating (but I could have edited!!) so I made some sounds with the mouse, and even sniffed half way through, about errr 75º off axis and behind the mic 1m, so yes, the volume was that LOW

Conclusion, since the port noise is very low end AND has a high pitched component, if you listen at the beggining an end there SEEMS not to be no port noise at all, so naturally, that is why so many claim they dont have port noise, they can´t pick up on it because it is masked by source material.

but as I filter through, there it shines, loud and clear.

An no pronto, you don´t have seaguls in your backyard, it is in the recording
Attached Files

rock kick.mp3 (2.61 MB, 534 views)

Old 8th July 2010
  #382
Gear Head
 
sevansounds's Avatar
 

I don't think you can get more definitive than that last sample posted. Ok so now that there are no more excuses for this being an issue.....

Whats the next step in solving this problem?
Old 8th July 2010
  #383
Qha
Gear Head
 

I believe I don't have the issue, so Big Bang, could you bounce the filtered bass drum audio for me to mic it myself. In your "scientific post" where you had many samples, my A1 didn't result in anything like your A2 at any level.
Old 8th July 2010
  #384
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Big_Bang's Avatar
 

->candidate file for quite port noise test ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sevansounds View Post
I don't think you can get more definitive than that last sample posted. Ok so now that there are no more excuses for this being an issue.....

Whats the next step in solving this problem?
Not at all !! This is ONLY my results!
Until objective people get in here and prove they actually know how to run a test, I wouldn't take this thread seriously at ALL.
Lets wait for ADAM to conclude.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Qha View Post
I believe I don't have the issue, so Big Bang, could you bounce the filtered bass drum audio for me to mic it myself. In your "scientific post" where you had many samples, my A1 didn't result in anything like your A2 at any level.
Ah, yes, but that sample has even a higher treble component, so A1 sample would mask the noise even better than this one.

and stop calling it scientific !! lol !! there is no science there, just a troubleshooting approach. Leave the actual science to the real pro's at ADAM. I hate being a source of ADAM bashing, this will certainly give them a bad rep around here. I just dont get how port noise is speaker to speaker dependant. It should either be there or not for everyone. Will do, but I filtered manually so the automation I create wont be exactly the same. But thats not important anyway. I'll get back soon.

UPDATE: Here you go !
Attached Files

Acoustic Kick with LPF sweep.mp3 (2.68 MB, 378 views)

Old 8th July 2010
  #385
Gear Head
 

okay,

i did test again the bass drum file A1

this time i moved my lazy ass and put the gain knob of my A7X @ 14+ DB

the cone jumps in my face, and yes its sound like big bang says.

to be honest with you all : IN MY TEST the speaker was totally cranked.

it was a pain to look at the cone during the test, i PERSONALLY never would do this again.


again this was with my speaker i dont know at which levels this happens with other a7x´ s.

cheers
Old 8th July 2010
  #386
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Big_Bang's Avatar
 

why the heck would you... tutt

You do understand ADAMs dont have protection limiters dont you? did they survive ?? LOL

seriously man, you´re making a circus out of yourself... Reading back, there are some of the best audio engineering jokes I have EVER come across!! a real candidate for your own thread - "Stupidest Gearslut Member Ever Awards - (not proper for the incontinence afflicted)"

You call yourself lazy for moving 1 knob ? No suprise there.
be honest to yourself, and get your lazy ass to buy this: Home Recording For Dummies
Its s good start

http://www.amazon.com/Home-Recording.../dp/0764516345
Old 8th July 2010
  #387
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big_Bang View Post
why the heck would you... tutt

You do understand ADAMs dont have protection limiters dont you? did they survive ?? LOL

seriously man, you´re making a circus out of yourself... a real candidate for your own thread - "Stupidest Gearslut Member Ever Awards - (not proper for the incontinence afflicted)"

You call yourself laving for moving 1 knob ?

be honest to yourself, and get your lazy ass to buy this: Home Recording For Dummies

Its s good start

Amazon.com: Home Recording for Musicians for Dummies (0785555105485): Jeff Strong: Books

whats your problem now?
Old 8th July 2010
  #388
Lives for gear
 
Big_Bang's Avatar
 

YOU !!

- trolling the thread when you have nothing factual to add
- promoting doubts in people looking to uncover the truth
- doubting my words and methods, yet proposing no alternative nor presenting concrete evidence
- calling a serious discussion where some people have (apparently) the same issue, horsh*t
- showing complete ignorance for kindergarten level audio
- sabotaging my justification for asking a return from thomann, if I need to contact ADAM

but I will give you this, you lighten the day making people laugh
Old 8th July 2010
  #389
Gear Head
 

and you win an award in insulting gearslutz members
Old 8th July 2010
  #390
Gear Head
 

okay the threat is yours now.

people like you cant be helped.

good luck
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