The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
The Dangerous 2 Bus review Digital Converters
Old 17th June 2010
  #61
Gear Addict
 

Is it worth getting a D-Box if you plan on simply using it on a masterbus? I suppose I'd go the stem mix route at times but I like the idea of running my final stereo mix through something other then an outboard compressor. Just curious if it would add some warmth and cohesion to a stereo track.
Old 17th June 2010
  #62
Gear Maniac
 
bakerman's Avatar
 

yes it will sound better from the analogue conversion. If your A/D converters are good that also makes a difference, stems or just the mix its clearer but the real value is with stems and mixing with the benefit of the added SPACE.
Old 5th July 2010
  #63
Lives for gear
Routing within Pro Tools to Dangerous Music 2-Bus

These may seem elementary questions, but the manual for my summing box contains no detailed info about routing to a summing mixer. I am running PT 7.4 with a 192 and Rosetta 800. Effectively I have 16 analogue ins/outs and 8 channels of AES/EBU (which I can use formy reverbs if necessary).
I am wanting to connect my outboard gear which comprises for example 4 dual channel compressors and equalisers. I also have 3 stereo reverbs.
I have routed each of the analgue outputs of channels 1-8 to a separate equalizer and compressor and then into channels 1-8 on the summing mixer. That is easy. My question is how do I take advantage of adding my 3 stereo hardware reverbs to these channels. Is it better that I have the eqs, compressors and reverbs as inserts in PT and then just route them out as stems or is there another better way? I would be grateful for your help configuring the PT mixer as it is doing my head in.
Old 5th July 2010
  #64
Do your reverbs have AES or SPDIF i/o ?
Old 5th July 2010
  #65
Here for the gear
 

So guys, this may be a stupid question but are we talking about summing from the mics into the box (daw) or taking the tracks off the DAW after recording and sending through the summer right back into the daw and recording again?
Old 5th July 2010
  #66
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by gongbass View Post
Is it worth getting a D-Box if you plan on simply using it on a masterbus? I suppose I'd go the stem mix route at times but I like the idea of running my final stereo mix through something other then an outboard compressor. Just curious if it would add some warmth and cohesion to a stereo track.

Quote:
Originally Posted by u b k View Post
One last bomb to drop on y'all: ITB summing is pretty badass. Zero mojo or vibe, still need to hang a chain of killer pieces on the mix bus, and it's crazy stupid like a robot, it needs to be told every little thing you want done unlike analog which has a way of helping things come together. But the clarity is pretty phenomenal, and when you learn to hear how it combines things the depth is impressive as well.
Gregory Scott - ubk
Ok, so... I like the sound of digital (and other GS faux pas)
Old 5th July 2010
  #67
Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterOf1Angel View Post
So guys, this may be a stupid question but are we talking about summing from the mics into the box (daw) or taking the tracks off the DAW after recording and sending through the summer right back into the daw and recording again?
At the mix stage..
Old 10th July 2010
  #68
Lives for gear
I have 4 channels of AES reverbs on the H8000FW and 2 spdif on the PCM-80.

There is lots of headroom with the 2-bus. I can really crank my outboard EQs and compressors

I recently routed 6 songs which a guy recorded and mixed into 3 stereo stems on an MBox and feed it through the above outboard gear into the 2-Bus. I inserted the H8000 (AES) on 2 separate stereo tracks in PTs. The guy could not believe how clear and professional his songs sounded. They came to life. I too was astonished by the results. I never was able to achieve such clarity just by inserting outboard gear into the 192 and Apogee 800 and mixing ITB.

There seems to be greater depth, clarity and separation with the 2-bus. The results were so satisfying that I did not need to mix 12 different versions or run the final mix onto a 2-track Ampex AG-440. I used to have to do that before. So basically I am very pleased with the 2-bus. What you hear coming out of the outputs is exactly what you hear on CD (unlike the ITB PT mixes).
Old 19th January 2011
  #69
Gear Addict
 
RawDepth's Avatar
 

I am interested in maybe purchasing the Dangerous 2-Bus LT. However, I am concerned whether the quality of my A/D - D/A conversion is good enough to keep up.

I have an RME HDSP9652 (24 ADAT I/O channels)
I have 2 RME AEB8-O analog output expansion cards for the 9652. (16 channels total)
I have 1 RME AEB8-I analog input expansion card for the 9652. (8 channels)

Will they be clean enough to deliver the magic of the 2-bus?
Old 29th January 2011
  #70
Gear Nut
Hi mate-

Yes, your converters are really good enough to deliver! Go for the Dangerous box, if you can afford buying that.

B-regs
Tranny
Old 5th February 2011
  #71
Gear Addict
 
RawDepth's Avatar
 

Thanks for the advice. I will take it seriously.
Old 1st March 2011
  #72
Gear Maniac
 
void1985's Avatar
 

got a question, and sorry if this has already been answered:

I'm a Pro Tools LE user (8.0.4 atm, soon 9) and work with the Digi 003 interface. Is it possible for me, with this interface, to use such an analog summer? Or do I have to have an HD system?

I had my eyes on the TL Audio Ebony A4 summer:
TL AUDIO EBONY A4 - Thomann Nederlandse Cyberstore

For example, would I be able to use the 8 line outputs on the 003 to route the busses in my PT sessions to an analog summer?

Thanks!
Old 2nd March 2011
  #73
Lives for gear
 

Yes, you can do this with your 003 just the way you mentioned.
Old 2nd March 2011
  #74
Lives for gear
 
DeyBwah's Avatar
 

+1 Dangerous, using D-Box here... LOVE IT! It'd be nice to get a 2-bus as well, but even with 4 stereo stems, I'm hearing quite a distinct benefit.

I have my stems set up like this.

1-2 = Drums/Beats
3-4 = Forward Mix(guitars, keys, horns, etc)
5-6 = Background Mix(FX, background vox, strings, etc)
7 = Bass guitar
8 = Lead Vox
Old 2nd March 2011
  #75
Lives for gear
 
RKrizman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeyBwah View Post
+1 Dangerous, using D-Box here... LOVE IT! It'd be nice to get a 2-bus as well, but even with 4 stereo stems, I'm hearing quite a distinct benefit.

I have my stems set up like this.

1-2 = Drums/Beats
3-4 = Forward Mix(guitars, keys, horns, etc)
5-6 = Background Mix(FX, background vox, strings, etc)
7 = Bass guitar
8 = Lead Vox
Why does it matter how the stems are setup? You could send the tracks randomly to the various Dangerous inputs and it would amount to the same thing, right?

-R
Old 2nd March 2011
  #76
Gear Maniac
 
void1985's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by nst7 View Post
Yes, you can do this with your 003 just the way you mentioned.
Thanks! The Dangerous 2-bus is pretty far away from my budget reach right now... and not sure of that TLA is coloring the sound, which I definitely do not want.
Old 2nd March 2011
  #77
Lives for gear
 
RonT's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RKrizman View Post
Why does it matter how the stems are setup? You could send the tracks randomly to the various Dangerous inputs and it would amount to the same thing, right?

-R
Yeah, if going straight in, but the power of summing is running your stems to outboard, then to the summing mixer.

So having your stems setup in a logical way, makes this task a breeze.
1+2 drums/beat to API 2500 to summing 1+2

3+4 music/sides to Art pro Vla to summing 3+4

5+6 backs/fx to RNC to summing 5+6

7 kick to 1176 to summing mono 7

8 Lead Vox to "magic vox chain" to summing mono 8

Using the outboard to saturate and by the DM summers having hella headroom is just a beautiful thing.

Now take the output of the summing mixer to more "2bus" processors for tweaking the final mix. Nail comp to API 5500 then back into your converter and printing mix to disk.

This is an example of "meaningful" summing. Stems have to hit some "goodness" in order to make a difference.

My experience is going straight from DAW to a "regular" summer, like the 2bus/dbox, makes little difference than summing ITB.

YMMV.


Posted via the Gearslutz iPhone app
Old 2nd March 2011
  #78
Lives for gear
 
RKrizman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RonT View Post
Yeah, if going straight in, but the power of summing is running your stems to outboard, then to the summing mixer.

So having your stems setup in a logical way, makes this task a breeze.
1+2 drums/beat to API 2500 to summing 1+2

3+4 music/sides to Art pro Vla to summing 3+4

5+6 backs/fx to RNC to summing 5+6

7 kick to 1176 to summing mono 7

8 Lead Vox to "magic vox chain" to summing mono 8

Using the outboard to saturate and by the DM summers having hella headroom is just a beautiful thing.

Now take the output of the summing mixer to more "2bus" processors for tweaking the final mix. Nail comp to API 5500 then back into your converter and printing mix to disk.

This is an example of "meaningful" summing. Stems have to hit some "goodness" in order to make a difference.

My experience is going straight from DAW to a "regular" summer, like the 2bus/dbox, makes little difference than summing ITB.

YMMV.


Posted via the Gearslutz iPhone app
I hear ya. But this was not the scenario Deybwah was describing, which I was responding to.

As to the outboard, I find it more facile to loop out and back via PT inserts. As I've said before, it puts the compressors prefader and makes it easier to print tracks to the session for recall purposes or multiple use of gear.

I agree, just summing through a D2B does little.

-R
Old 2nd March 2011
  #79
Gear Maniac
 
void1985's Avatar
 

Ok, that's an eye opener!
At my homestudio, which is very small, I only have my plug-ins and totally mix ITB. The professional studio I go to now and then, have great outboard and lots of analogue goodness. If I want to sum my mix in any way, I think I'd rather go to that studio where I can use the Amek Big + outboard (Neve, Drawmer, TLA, Orban....) - even if I mixed my project at home ITB. Until I'm able to get some outboard myself, buying a summer wouldn't do much for me, right?
Old 2nd March 2011
  #80
Lives for gear
 
DeyBwah's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RonT View Post
Yeah, if going straight in, but the power of summing is running your stems to outboard, then to the summing mixer.

So having your stems setup in a logical way, makes this task a breeze.
1+2 drums/beat to API 2500 to summing 1+2

3+4 music/sides to Art pro Vla to summing 3+4

5+6 backs/fx to RNC to summing 5+6

7 kick to 1176 to summing mono 7

8 Lead Vox to "magic vox chain" to summing mono 8

Using the outboard to saturate and by the DM summers having hella headroom is just a beautiful thing.

Now take the output of the summing mixer to more "2bus" processors for tweaking the final mix. Nail comp to API 5500 then back into your converter and printing mix to disk.

This is an example of "meaningful" summing. Stems have to hit some "goodness" in order to make a difference.

My experience is going straight from DAW to a "regular" summer, like the 2bus/dbox, makes little difference than summing ITB.

YMMV.


Posted via the Gearslutz iPhone app
For whatever it's worth, I noticed a pretty dramatic difference on my initial dive into summing analog. Well, dramatic might not be the most accurate word, but I definitely heard/felt the difference on the how the bottom end elements vibed with each other in a natural way. The sound stage also sounds cleaner and more defined. And on top of that, I have a high-quality point of headroom to play with.

Recently, I added a Dramastic Obsidian to the summing output of the D-Box. I think the combo of the two really compliment each other. Summing analog just glues things in a more musical way. In the same way, ITB summing keeps elements less glued, but that's not necessarily a BAD thing because you can get some sterile clean mixes, which are perfect for many genres. For example, Electronica music employs VST instruments for a majority of their sound. I've run my VSTi through outboard gear and it can strip away that pristine digital clarity of ITB.

This has been my experience with outboard/analog stuff. I have been doing stuff ITB for at least 8 years before I had to hear it for myself to decide.
YMMV of course.
Old 2nd March 2011
  #81
Lives for gear
 
DeyBwah's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RKrizman View Post
Why does it matter how the stems are setup? You could send the tracks randomly to the various Dangerous inputs and it would amount to the same thing, right?

-R
Well, in theory, it matters because of how digital sums many channels to 2. There are various beliefs on this matter but I chose the idea to let the DAW sum channels that are close in frequency content/gain and let the D-Box take care of summing the drastic differences in those variables. That's why the low-end feels more connected to the rest of the mix in regards to musical glue.
Old 3rd March 2011
  #82
Lives for gear
 
jjboogie's Avatar
Gonna be picking up a Dangerous 2 bus LT either this week or next as well as a Lynx Aurora.....I can't wait!
Old 3rd March 2011
  #83
Lives for gear
 
RKrizman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeyBwah View Post
Well, in theory, it matters because of how digital sums many channels to 2. There are various beliefs on this matter but I chose the idea to let the DAW sum channels that are close in frequency content/gain and let the D-Box take care of summing the drastic differences in those variables. That's why the low-end feels more connected to the rest of the mix in regards to musical glue.
Why is it advantageous to have the DAW sum things that are close in frequency response/gain? And you're saying that because the D-box is summing the things that sound drastically different this is why the low end has some sort of improvement?

If it really sounds better to you then there's no way to argue that, but I think you're kidding yourself.

-R
Old 3rd March 2011
  #84
Lives for gear
 
RKrizman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeyBwah View Post
Well, in theory, it matters because of how digital sums many channels to 2.
And how is that? The computer adds the tracks together (actually multiplies) in an environment that has way more headroom than any analog medium could ever dream about.

-R
Old 3rd March 2011
  #85
Lives for gear
 
DeyBwah's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RKrizman View Post
Why is it advantageous to have the DAW sum things that are close in frequency response/gain? And you're saying that because the D-box is summing the things that sound drastically different this is why the low end has some sort of improvement?

If it really sounds better to you then there's no way to argue that, but I think you're kidding yourself.

-R
Not sure why you need me to repeat myself. This has been my experience and the end result is a better mix. Doesn't mean it's for everyone, you're a testament to that obviously.

And no I'm not kidding myself.
Old 3rd March 2011
  #86
Lives for gear
 
DeyBwah's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RKrizman View Post
And how is that? The computer adds the tracks together (actually multiplies) in an environment that has way more headroom than any analog medium could ever dream about.

-R
Exactly, an analog environment reacts differently to summing multiple channels to two because there isn't "way more" headroom. And inevitably, music will be played through analog hardware, which doesn't have "way more" headroom like digital.

Anyway, I'm not claiming to be a scientist here. I'm using my ears first, then formulating the theory from my experience. Either way, I will always trust my ears and end results. In my case, both have improved since I started using more outboard analog stuff. There are endless threads of people arguing over this, why don't you go join those threads instead of derailing this one.
Old 7th March 2011
  #87
Gear Maniac
 
void1985's Avatar
 

I'm seriously thinking about getting the D2B. Atm I only work with my digi003 and plugs and am in the need of more air/headroom/breath in my mixdowns.

What would be a reasonable setup using this interface? I got 8 outputs (would need jack/XLR for the D2B) - how would you setup the D2B with 8 outs from the digi? I mainly mix rock/metal stuff.
Old 7th March 2011
  #88
Lives for gear
 
mu6gr8's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by void1985 View Post
I'm seriously thinking about getting the D2B. Atm I only work with my digi003 and plugs and am in the need of more air/headroom/breath in my mixdowns.

What would be a reasonable setup using this interface? I got 8 outputs (would need jack/XLR for the D2B) - how would you setup the D2B with 8 outs from the digi? I mainly mix rock/metal stuff.
You don't use a Master Fader in Pro Tools. Make a stereo record-ready audio track and monitor through it on input. Send the main output of the D2B to the input of that track.

If you plan to sum only 8 channels of DA, might a Dangerous D-Box be a better tool for you?
Old 7th March 2011
  #89
Lives for gear
 
RKrizman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeyBwah View Post
Exactly, an analog environment reacts differently to summing multiple channels to two because there isn't "way more" headroom. And inevitably, music will be played through analog hardware, which doesn't have "way more" headroom like digital.

Anyway, I'm not claiming to be a scientist here. I'm using my ears first, then formulating the theory from my experience. Either way, I will always trust my ears and end results. In my case, both have improved since I started using more outboard analog stuff. There are endless threads of people arguing over this, why don't you go join those threads instead of derailing this one.
Whoa Debra, I'm not derailing this thread. Unlike you, I've actually used a Dangerous 2bus. I have no problem with you saying you like the way something sounds. I'm only questioning your rationale. Maybe you should just say you like your Dbox and leave it at that.

Do what you like, and enjoy it!

-R
Old 7th March 2011
  #90
Gear Maniac
 
void1985's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mu6gr8 View Post
You don't use a Master Fader in Pro Tools. Make a stereo record-ready audio track and monitor through it on input. Send the main output of the D2B to the input of that track.

If you plan to sum only 8 channels of DA, might a Dangerous D-Box be a better tool for you?
That's right, all the auxiliary tracks I have in my session go to a "PRE" bus (with a limiter of some sort) and then to a "MIX" audio track where I record my mix to.

Hmm... just checked the D-Box out, might also be a (cheaper) solution.
So I'd connect the 8 outputs with a D connector/1/4" jack? (balanced? unbalanced? not stereo?)



I like the addition of the talkback, 2 headphone ins and monitor control.
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Similar Threads
Thread
Thread Starter / Forum
Replies
Disco D / So much gear, so little time
23
WrightSound / The Good News Channel
2
dsteve / Gearslutz Secondhand Gear Classifieds
0
nelsons / High end
7
walker / Gearslutz Secondhand Gear Classifieds
0

Forum Jump
Forum Jump