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China Mic Trip Pictures and Thoughts Condenser Microphones
Old 30th November 2009
  #181
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And here are few shots themed around food, shopping and tourism. The night time shots are from Nanjing Rd. in Shanghai. Sorta like Times Square on steroids.
Attached Thumbnails
China Mic Trip Pictures and Thoughts-foodshop.jpg   China Mic Trip Pictures and Thoughts-nanjing1.jpg   China Mic Trip Pictures and Thoughts-nanjing2.jpg   China Mic Trip Pictures and Thoughts-pizzahut.jpg   China Mic Trip Pictures and Thoughts-nanjing3.jpg  

China Mic Trip Pictures and Thoughts-shop2.jpg  
Old 30th November 2009
  #182
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u b k's Avatar
 

Great pix! I like the sign that lists your options as "Life & Food Fashion" or "Domestic Delicious Food".

I hope to visit there next year.


Gregory Scott - ubk
.
Old 30th November 2009
  #183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saxon-of-a-son View Post
And, in the meantime, I am not buying Chinese-made products, if i can help it. I'd rather save up and buy from a small U.S. manufacturer.

You can't help it. Anything you buy from a small u.s. manufacturer is gonna be loaded with parts and components from china (and other asian centers).


Gregory Scott - ubk
.
Old 30th November 2009
  #184
Quote:
Originally Posted by u b k View Post
Great pix! I like the sign that lists your options as "Life & Food Fashion" or "Domestic Delicious Food".

I hope to visit there next year.


Gregory Scott - ubk
.
Hey Greg, if you find yourself in Beijing, let me know - it would be great fun to show you around this crazy place!

And that goes for all slutz!!

Martin
Old 30th November 2009
  #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J.S.Vega III View Post
Hey Greg, if you find yourself in Beijing, let me know - it would be great fun to show you around this crazy place!

And that goes for all slutz!!

Martin
Hey Martin, I'd love to meet up with you next year at PALM Beijing. But I'm sure we'll talk before then when I release my new mic line early in 2010.
Old 30th November 2009
  #186
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael_Joly View Post
Hey Martin, I'd love to meet up with you next year at PALM Beijing. But I'm sure we'll talk before then when I release my new mic line early in 2010.
For sure, Michael!
Old 30th November 2009
  #187
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big country's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by u b k View Post
You can't help it. Anything you buy from a small u.s. manufacturer is gonna be loaded with parts and components from china (and other asian centers).


Gregory Scott - ubk
.
what if a rule was made that every mid to big sized city in the US had to make one
electronic component for trade
Old 30th November 2009
  #188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by big country View Post
what if a rule was made that every mid to big sized city in the US had to make one
electronic component for trade
It would be made of wood.

ha ha, not feasible anymore, our destinies are tied together on a single strand.
Nixon knew that.
Clinton knew that.
ClintonSSSS made sure we were irrevocably hooked.
It was going to happen, or, the US would have to give up all sovereignty anyway.
We are taking the slow road to our unavoidable future, where we are going together anyway, but, we ned t make the million cognizant choices wisely on the way, it can work out for all, but, not everyday is easily done and not every situation is pleasant along that road.
Someone is BOUND to get hurt no matter what, things must change and anyone who doesn't realize and invest in the future will be left behind, destroyed by their own righteous attitude.
That isn't new or news, it's always been this way.
Make music great.
Old 30th November 2009
  #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by memphisindie View Post
It would be made of wood.

ha ha, not feasible anymore, our destinies are tied together on a single strand.
Nixon knew that.
Clinton knew that.
ClintonSSSS made sure we were irrevocably hooked.
It was going to happen, or, the US would have to give up all sovereignty anyway.
We are taking the slow road to our unavoidable future, where we are going together anyway, but, we ned t make the million cognizant choices wisely on the way, it can work out for all, but, not everyday is easily done and not every situation is pleasant along that road.
Someone is BOUND to get hurt no matter what, things must change and anyone who doesn't realize and invest in the future will be left behind, destroyed by their own righteous attitude.
That isn't new or news, it's always been this way.
Make music great.
you can change herds you dont have to ride the one on route to the saluter house

sadly there is only so many things wood is good for
Old 30th November 2009
  #190
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Some expressions of thoughtfulness seen recently...
Attached Thumbnails
China Mic Trip Pictures and Thoughts-pledge.jpg  
Old 30th November 2009
  #191
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u b k's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael_Joly View Post
Some expressions of thoughtfulness seen recently...

Fascinating how they are so much better than us at some of those things, and so much worse at others.

In a tip of massive irony, I would say they have us beat on the "Advocate Treatment of Others with Courtesy" front, but fail utterly in the "Respect Others' Rights" department.

An odd reality, that.


Gregory Scott - ubk
.
Old 30th November 2009
  #192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by big country View Post
you can change herds you dont have to ride the one on route to the saluter house

sadly there is only so many things wood is good for
Whacking people into the correct direction. heh ya hockey pucks!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael_Joly View Post
Some expressions of thoughtfulness seen recently...
Thanks for that Mike, I'm bringing this kind of information to my city's new leadership, this will serve today. Thanks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by u b k View Post
Fascinating how they are so much better than us at some of those things, and so much worse at others.
In a tip of massive irony, I would say they have us beat on the "Advocate Treatment of Others with Courtesy" front, but fail utterly in the "Respect Others' Rights" department.
An odd reality, that.
Gregory Scott - ubk
.
You mean on GS?heh
You are proof that it exists here, Greg, it's just isn't so widely accepted, and never taken for granted.
Old 30th November 2009
  #193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by memphisindie View Post
Whacking people into the correct direction. heh ya hockey pucks!
.
T&A sounds like a nutty way to lead a group and can only lead to a bunch of jerks

we supposedly live in a free country and if the leaders are leading us we should have options . like not following the leader
Old 30th November 2009
  #194
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Quote:
Originally Posted by big country View Post
T&A sounds like a nutty way to lead a group and can only lead to a bunch of jerks

we supposedly live in a free country and if the leaders are leading us we should have options . like not following the leader
It's about natural resources and demand, the world will run out and die, or, it will cooperate and live, for as long as it can, with what resources it MUST consume to live, for as long as they last. To do that, it must cooperate with other nations, especially those with an unquenchably enormous demand burgeoning. We are now #2 and China is #1, the rest are out of resources other than manpower, except for Iran and Korea with nuclear aspirations. We are begged to stay where we are, using force, as asked by the very countries that call us enemy, so that those two countries do not destroy our new allies. We will al come out smelling rosier than when we went in. It will take time. But, we can't go backwards because it spells death to try, not just for us.
So, have a chinese mic and a smile. They are built with cooperation.
Once intellectual rights laws are enforced, we'll all be peachy.
Old 30th November 2009
  #195
Gear Addict
"Observe the Public Order" or face another Tiananmen Square.
Old 30th November 2009
  #196
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big country's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by memphisindie View Post
It's about natural resources and demand, the world will run out and die, or, it will cooperate and live, for as long as it can, with what resources it MUST consume to live, for as long as they last. To do that, it must cooperate with other nations, especially those with an unquenchably enormous demand burgeoning. We are now #2 and China is #1, the rest are out of resources other than manpower, except for Iran and Korea with nuclear aspirations. We are begged to stay where we are, using force, as asked by the very countries that call us enemy, so that those two countries do not destroy our new allies. We will al come out smelling rosier than when we went in. It will take time. But, we can't go backwards because it spells death to try, not just for us.
So, have a chinese mic and a smile. They are built with cooperation.
Once intellectual rights laws are enforced, we'll all be peachy.
I want to make my own mics .
Old 30th November 2009
  #197
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drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael_Joly View Post
...at the conclusion of a wonderful Hunan-style meal at the end of my very long first day in Shanghai, the Tsingtao-fueled conversation turned to the topic of personal age. Turns out that my vendor's distributor from Beijing and I are just about the same age. Once we left the restaurant, I went up to him on the street and and said (through my interpreter): "I'd like to shake your hand in friendship. Both you and I are old enough to remember the bad times between our two countries and distrust. I'm happy that relations have improved to where you and I can share a meal together." His response was: "Yes, now I feel I have an American brother". I didn't see this gentleman again until the end of my trip a week later. But when we did meet he specifically asked for a picture to be taken of us together. i'll repeat it here because its message is worth repeating.
Michael - reminds me of a fun and very interesting journey to Moscow right after the "wall came down" in the early 90's. I was there to document (record) a celebration of the FIRST open celebration of Easter that that country had had in over 70 years of oppressive regime.

What a great time. Of course there were the shisters, the street thugs, etc. that seem to come out of the woodwork once a freer society emerges, but overall the people were warm, inviting, gracious and truly inspirational - wanting to share their culture, experience and (humbling to me) their food and lives with their "enemies" from the USA. Their overwhelming sense of gratitude and appreciation for us being there to help with their Easter celebration was something I'll never forget. You don't really appreciate what you've got until it's taken away from you. Those people knew ALL about that.

After touring the area for a couple of weeks, I had flashback visions of being in the 2nd grade, kneeling on the floor, getting under our desks at grade-school when the the air raid sirens went off in preparation of being "bombed" by those nasty commies in Russia. (I guess this dates me, eh?? heh) I'm not saying that wouldn't/couldn't have happened, but I was struck by the people and the pretty backwards (technologically) aspect of Russia that I realized that the whole "we might get bombed, build a shelter and learn how to get under your desks" scenario had been pretty much been fabricated by a pair of governments who really didn't give a flying **** about the people in their own countries. We had ALL (both sides) been duped by a select few.

If there is a problem, it's at the governmental level and not with the people. On the Russian technological issues, although common people were not really allowed in before this time, our political and military leaders had been "inside" many, many times and knew all about Russia's abilities and intents. And I suspect the exact same thing is in play with the China / US situation today. All we know is what they TELL us -- unless we venture out to find out for ourselves first hand.

Things to think about.....
Old 30th November 2009
  #198
Hello. I saw this thread about 2 hours ago and read it all the way through.

As a small businessman, who's had several service based businesses go up and crash & burn, I'd admire Mr Joly.

Anyone that can DESIGN (or even redesign) a microphone deserves mad props. Anyone willing to risk to manufacture it on a mass scale is even more gutsy than I'd ever be.

Here is what I know and forgive my ignorance as I can only know so much w/o traveling to another country. Our media here shades others in one light or another. In the past 6 years, it has been china, iraq, korea, and iran.

Here are some specific instances that would make me (as a businessman) concerned about doing business in China.

Precursor... to below examples... I've even worked at fleamarkets when times were tough for me a couple years ago. Literally a lot of vendors from the fleamarket I worked at went to another 'wholesale' fleamarket to pick up supplies. 99% everything that was sold at this wholesale fleamarket was from china. I was into spun glass and nice ornaments/statues at the time. Everything I picked up there had quality control issues I discovered later on. (Mirrors that the crytal stood on had cracks, or excess glass dripped on, or other imperfections that made it much difficult to even attempt to sell.) Why were there no Mexican, US, UK, Germany, South American, African items? Because it was cheap to import. Anyways, back on topic.

Here are the specific examples

A) Malcolm Bricklin story - He was all poised to bring a Chinese made car (from Chery) into the US, with signed contracts, spent millions of startup money, and Chery pulled out last minute to try to go with another distributor with the ground work being laid out by Visionary Vehicles. A documentary was even done by his son during this and describes the struggle in ugly detail. (Watched it on hulu a few months back)

B) Chinese Drywall. I live in Florida (Tampa) and during the building boom here a couple years back, Chinese drywall was bought and used in new home construction. After the new home smell didn't go away in some new homes that used this, it was discovered that the Chinese Drywall was tainted and the majority in our city was considered toxic. A lot of homes had to be re-mediated.

C) "Pollution turns Chinese river system red". we see headlines like this on a habitual basis. While we have to admit some of our rivers are very unhealthy, we rarely go a day w/o drinkable water. Pollution turns Chinese river system red - USATODAY.com

D) So many counterfeit items are created in China and sold elsewhere. #1 example is Nike shoes and other designer brand clothing. I don't often (if ever) see someone in the US manufacturing counterfeit items and selling to other countries.
U.S. police bust counterfeit Nike shoe smugglers

E) The worst of all... there's some really despicable people out in the world. The ones I'm speaking of would be the ones that put CARDBOARD in FOOD. I know of some dirty restaurants, but to substitute a FOOD ingredient for cardboard is down right nasty and I can't find one article in recent years where this is a common thing in the US.
Chinese food made from cardboard - Slashfood

Mr. Joly, I sincerely do hope your endeavors succeed. I'll probably be one of the first purchasers as I could use a nice new mic from someone on GS. I just hope you're getting what you've bargained for. I can't help being skeptical when all the information I have is less than pleasant.
Old 30th November 2009
  #199
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Quote:
Originally Posted by big country View Post
I want to make my own mics .
Ain't nuttin wrong with that either, but, "IF" you can't get all American parts, because they no longer exist, are you going to stop production or design and give up on it?
I wouldn't.
I suppose you could manufacture your own, but, man would that add a lot of time to each production run.
I don't have any control over where my parts come from, I just try to use the best I can find, wherever they come from, and do my best.
There aren't enough electronics designers on the whole planet to sway that tide of foreign production if they wanted to.
You have to know that there are some fights you can win, and some you will lose if you engage, the one you will lose are the fights that do not actually have a righteous cause for all men, no matter what has informed who you will be in that fight.
If you talk about fighting a fight that can't be won, it does you no good, it's not noble, it's stagnation, fear, domination avoidance, and making the majority of designers wrong will not get you any friends you would want.
I understand you want to make stuff your way, but, IF it isn't possible, what can you do, stop or keep on keepin on?

It's a monkey trap, you want the banana (your domestic parts), they are in an impossible situation, a jar too small to get your hand and the banana out of, the hunters come, that's the time limit of your production run and lifespan, you won't let go of that banana in the jar to save your life and business? That is where the term "let it go" comes from, let go of the self imposed rule which takes that future away from you. It isn't your fault, you don't make the parts, you make stellar mics.
The whole conversation is designed whether by accident or on purpose to keep you out of the game and off the field of play. Get in the field of play, become a player, and redeem your biz, if you become a major player and still desire to have domestic made parts, you can then sway that future with power.
Old 30th November 2009
  #200
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djgizmo View Post
Hello. I saw this thread about 2 hours ago and read it all the way through.
I'd admire Mr Joly.
Anyone that can DESIGN (or even redesign) a microphone deserves mad props. Anyone willing to risk to manufacture it on a mass scale is even more gutsy than I'd ever be.

Here are some specific instances that would make me (as a businessman) concerned about doing business in China.

Here are the specific examples

A) Malcolm Bricklin story - He was all poised to bring a Chinese made car (from Chery) into the US, with signed contracts, spent millions of startup money, and Chery pulled out last minute to try to go with another distributor with the ground work being laid out by Visionary Vehicles. A documentary was even done by his son during this and describes the struggle in ugly detail. (Watched it on hulu a few months back)
I remember the Bricklin. Big in Dallas.
Quote:

D) So many counterfeit items are created in China and sold elsewhere. #1 example is Nike shoes and other designer brand clothing. I don't often (if ever) see someone in the US manufacturing counterfeit items and selling to other countries.
U.S. police bust counterfeit Nike shoe smugglers
Nike decided they would take over he Chinese factories and oversee the production of those shoes since they could not stop them, the factories went with that plan. Your Nikes are made in China now and the USA, Some Fender GTRs too.
There is a way where there is a will, generate a will and you will win.
You can't make domestic electronic parts when China's factories have basically hijacked ALL the business, so, you partner with them, since you don't have much choice unless you want to enforce or war, oop, there's war again, or you can cut a deal, but, if they want to win you don't have a chance against them, you have to go with, doesn't mean you can't be friends, just like you were born whatever sex you are, you don't have a choice here either, it's bigger than you and over before you were born.
Quote:

Chinese food made from cardboard - Slashfood

Mr. Joly, I sincerely do hope your endeavors succeed. I'll probably be one of the first purchasers as I could use a nice new mic from someone on GS. I just hope you're getting what you've bargained for. I can't help being skeptical when all the information I have is less than pleasant.
If you want to really have a cryfest, figure out how much DDT they can use on Juan valdez's coffee fields in South America, since they can still use it there and in Italy.
Esspresso anyone??
I think not!
Old 30th November 2009
  #201
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Anybody want to talk about mics? From left to right - diaphragm resonance test jig which I got to try my hand at, finished capsules for a big name brand, isolation chamber for noise floor tests made from a huge pipe fitted with multiple layers of insulation and test engineers at work.
Attached Thumbnails
China Mic Trip Pictures and Thoughts-capres.jpg   China Mic Trip Pictures and Thoughts-edgeterm.jpg   China Mic Trip Pictures and Thoughts-iso.jpg   China Mic Trip Pictures and Thoughts-engineers.jpg  
Old 30th November 2009
  #202
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low_z's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael_Joly View Post
...when I release my new mic line early in 2010.
Good to hear! Will be getting my Jacksons, Grants, and Benjamins all lined up.

big country, is the mic in your avatar a prototype you made? It looks like a very classy wooden sdc/57!
Old 30th November 2009
  #203
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did you visit any ribbon mic factory ? if so, would you mind sharing some pictures ?

thanks

( the mic in his avatar is an Oktava 219 )
Old 30th November 2009
  #204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hankdrummer View Post
did you visit any ribbon mic factory ? if so, would you mind sharing some pictures ?

thanks

( the mic in his avatar is an Oktava 219 )
ha ha, not Michael's avatar, big country's avatar

and yes, let's see some ribbon mic factory pics
Old 30th November 2009
  #205
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big country's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by low_z View Post

big country, is the Mic in your avatar a prototype you made? It looks like a very classy wooden sdc/57!
thanks

old midland head basket
with AT diaphragm
and 57 USA transformer
wood Handel I made

its kinda a residue from being into old classic cars
this part that part
Old 30th November 2009
  #206
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Michael_Joly's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by hankdrummer View Post
did you visit any ribbon mic factory ? if so, would you mind sharing some pictures ?
I did visit a factory that makes ribbon mics, but they were not doing a production run at the time. I have a prototype of my ribbon motor in hand but can't show it yet ; )

But the most interesting bit of ribbon mic information was learning the aluminum comes from Taiwan were it is manufactured, cut and corrugated on precision machines. The finished ribbons are then shipped to manufacturers in China for installation. We've discussed the necessity of "pre-conditioning" ribbons prior to installation to avoid future ribon sag problems.
Old 30th November 2009
  #207
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memphisindie's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael_Joly View Post
Anybody want to talk about mics? From left to right - diaphragm resonance test jig which I got to try my hand at, finished capsules for a big name brand, isolation chamber for noise floor tests made from a huge pipe fitted with multiple layers of insulation and test engineers at work.
Heck yes I do, I love that resonance jig. My whole studio is one, sometimes whole arenas become one at my stewardship, hahaha.

Can you explain any of the process of tuning those diaphragms using the jig shown?
I'm curious as heck and want to learn more about that. How do the do it?
Man, if you ever need a personal flunkie when you go, I'll hide in the suitcase and carry the rest of your bags take notes, pics, video, while you schmooz and supervise.
Old 30th November 2009
  #208
Gear Maniac
 
low_z's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by big country View Post
thanks


wood Handel I made


this part that part
heh
Attached Thumbnails
China Mic Trip Pictures and Thoughts-michandel.jpg  
Old 30th November 2009
  #209
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Michael_Joly's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by memphisindie View Post
Heck yes I do, I love that resonance jig. My whole studio is one, sometimes whole arenas become one at my stewardship, hahaha.

Can you explain any of the process of tuning those diaphragms using the jig shown?
I'm curious as heck and want to learn more about that. How do the do it?
Man, if you ever need a personal flunkie when you go, I'll hide in the suitcase and carry the rest of your bags take notes, pics, video, while you schmooz and supervise.
LOL - the intern and assistant resumes have been flowing in ; )

The jig you see above confirms resonance frequency after the capsule diaphragm has been baked in an oven.

Lets go back a step - unfortunately I don't have a picture of the other jig I saw - the diaphragm tensioning stand. This is basically a stand that holds the capsule diaphragm retaining ring. The un-cut diaphragm is laid over the retaining ring and weighted down at its circumference by precision weight. The weight causes the diaphragm to be brought up proper tension. There is some quick set adhesive already applied to the retaining ring, once this has set and the diaphragm is glued to the ring, the weights are removed and the excess Mylar trimmed to the edge of the retaining ring.

Then the diaphragms are baked, allowed to cool, and tested for very close adherence to an ideal resonant frequency. This done by feeding a sine wave tone into a loudspeaker, watching the surface of the diaphragm, and noting the exact frequency where a motionless node can be observed. Only diaphrgams that meet strict specs are then moved to the capsule assembly station.

I have some ideas regarding diaphragm thickness, tensioning and resultant resonant frequency that I will be exploring in depth with the engineers at this facility when I return.
Old 30th November 2009
  #210
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TurboJets's Avatar
Michael, I may have missed this somewhere, but what's the price point on your new mic? And do you have pics of the final product?

Also, does the MJE K47H capsule head fit the MK-012 body?
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