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China Mic Trip Pictures and Thoughts Condenser Microphones
Old 2nd January 2010
  #721
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkunkWorks View Post
point#2... yes you have to pick and choose a house that will want to understand your needs and doesn't just want to make a quick buck... but, considering how this entire thread began in the first place, I somehow think Michael would be able to do that. As I already said, even if it was on the expensive side, this is one area where you don't really want to be counting pennies.
Correct, but you assume that the results will be better. My experience making a logo for the French government was a nightmare because I was asked to give it a go after they'd already commissioned a firm (for several thousands of euros) but weren't happy with the results. I produced a logo in my style (interlocking letters, shaped to look like an anchor) and they liked it much better than what the firm had produced (which wasn't a big compliment, as the logos it'd submitted all looked like a clumsy mix of different cliparts).

By the end, though, they went with one of the firm's logos, because -- they openly admitted -- they had to justify the thousands-of-euros expense to their budgeting department.

Finally, for a firm that produces several logos a day (and can only spend so much time on any given client), Michael won't be Michael: he'll just be another customer. Even if they do care about their work (so that they won't produce the kind of crap the firm I mentioned above respectfully submitted), they won't care about his, not really.

This said, I once again agree that it would be to Michael's benefit to review different firms' portfolios, to see if he likes the feel of their designs better than what has been displayed in this thread. If he gets a good "vibe" for what a given firm -- or designer -- produces, then it'll be worth betting some money on said firm/designer being able to make him a better logo.
Old 2nd January 2010
  #722
The truly great thing about the (i)"microphone" part of the logo is the way it resembles the modern "on/off" button, which has a universal recognizability, even if people don't recognize it.
Old 2nd January 2010
  #723
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinocelt View Post
Correct, but you assume that the results will be better. My experience making a logo for the French government was a nightmare because I was asked to give it a go after they'd already hired another firm (for several thousands of euros) but weren't happy with the results. I produced a logo in my style (interlocking letters) and they liked it much better than what the firm had produced (which wasn't a big compliment, as the logos it'd submitted all looked like a clumsy mix of different cliparts).

By the end, though, they went with one of the firm's logos, because -- they openly admitted -- they had to justify the thousands-of-euros expense to their budgeting department.

Finally, for a firm, Michael won't be Michael: he'll just be another customer. Even if they do care about their work (so that they won't produce the kind of crap the firm I mentioned above respectfully submitted), they won't care about his, not really.
When I was in school we had real (non paying) clients for projects. Michael could also go that route if there was time to set that up... I don't know when he actually needs this logo. The drawback to that is that you are not getting seasoned professionals in "the top of their field" there either... but by the same token, referring to the statement you just made, yourself... that doesn't necessarily mean the results will be less professional or inspiring. We had a couple of really talented people in our class.

The advantage of going the design house route is that you usually have an extensive portfolio of past works to look through in order to make an informed decision on whether there is any individual or group of people still working there whose design values you "click" with.
Old 2nd January 2010
  #724
Ah... see? Everyone "clicks" those buttons, hundreds of times a day...
Old 2nd January 2010
  #725
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say goodnight, joel
Old 2nd January 2010
  #726
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joelpatterson View Post
The truly great thing about the (i)"microphone" part of the logo is the way it resembles the modern "on/off" button, which has a universal recognizability, even if people don't recognize it.
It does indeed, which can have both positive (reinforced recognition) and negative (dilution) consequences.
Old 2nd January 2010
  #727
Goodnight, Joel.

I wouldn't worry about the dilution aspect, because it's so subliminal. It's the status where "it seems familiar but I can't say why," which is one of the hallmarks of fine design, yes?
Old 2nd January 2010
  #728
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I appreciate Chris319 and SkunkWorks' concern that the logo design process result in a professional-looking mark that will represent me well and have longevity.

If if had thought this public forum process was leading nowhere I would have politely thanked everyone for the their time and taken my design challenge to a commercial design house.

Frankly, the fact that this design discussion has gone on so long, with so many contributors and with so little bickering is an amazing achievement in itself - so give yourselves a round of applause!

But I'm a strong believer in the benefits that come from symbiotic relationships between individuals who each possess of multitude of talents. That exists here at Gearslutz - plus, folks here have an intimate familiarity with the context in which I work - professional audio gear. And, lets not forget, a public design process has given me the opportunity to gauge public reaction and also announce the new direction I am moving toward. These are arguments in favor of the design process that has taken place here. A commercial design house, despite professionalism and experience, could not bring the same to the table. Oh, speaking of a commercial design house - I actually have three individuals in my immediate family, who while not logo designers, are professional illustrators, animators, painters and jewelers. People who know me well, know my business and know when a design looks good or not.

While the tone is still positive here, let me suggest the contributing designers should rest their cramped hands for a bit and let me digest all this for a while. I'm truly very appreciative of everyone's suggestion, and yes, a round of discounts will be on the house for all non-selected designers who contributed in a major way to this thread.

Now, on a slightly different topic, but one related to the major themes of this thread, I present a book review from today's NYT for your reading and debating pleasure:

WHEN CHINA RULES THE WORLD

The End of the Western World and the Birth of a New Global Order
By Martin Jacques

"In “When China Rules the World,” Martin Jacques, a columnist for The Guardian of London and a visiting scholar at the London School of Economics, argues that China will not just displace the United States as the major superpower. It will also marginalize the West in history and upend our core notions of what it means to be modern.

Unlike Britain, the United States or Germany at various times during the past 200 years, China is not emerging on the world stage as a new, powerful nation-state. It is, instead, as one Chinese writer put it, regaining “lost international status,” becoming the first ancient civilization to re-emerge and reclaim its position as a dominant power.

China was the wealthiest, most unified and most technologically advanced civilization until well into the 18th century, Jacques points out. It lost that position some 200 years ago as the industrial revolution got under way in Europe. Scholars once viewed China as having crippling social, cultural and political defects that underscored the superiority of the West. But given the speed and strength of China’s recent growth, those defects have begun to look more like anomalies. It is the West’s run of dominance, not China’s period of malaise, that could end up being the fluke, Jacques writes."
Old 2nd January 2010
  #729
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Actually, China severed the roots to its past during the communist revolution, in several major ways. The horrifying picture of historical monuments being used as practice targets for the artillery hints at much deeper destructions. The philosophical and social ruptures that occurred were brutal, as children were encouraged to denounce their parents, etc.

Nowadays, the Chinese are aware again of the pride of their long history, and that while you cannot let the past dictate your future, to deny your heritage is to deny who you are, thus what you can become. But the rupture is still there, its effects can still be felt; it hasn't healed completely, nor will it.

Interestingly enough, however, the current political situation in China is very much in line with what it has been, mostly, for more than two thousand years: one oligarchy -- the court of the emperor, at times his eunuchs -- has been replaced by another, but basically, the power still comes from above, still by divine right (with "the People" as the new god), and is still very strict.
Old 2nd January 2010
  #730
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Taiwan, as Republic of China, has kept the roots of the Chinese past while Communist China tried to destroy its cultural heritage during the 50-60's and even changed the written language itself.

With the popularity of Taiwan modern popular culture in China, this has helped change things a bit.

(For those who missed history class: The Republic of China was the first democratic government in China but was defeated by the Communist uprising after WWII resulting in the Commies taking over all of China except for Taiwan where the Republic of China still exists.)
Old 2nd January 2010
  #731
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkunkWorks View Post
In all seriousness, though, I have already told Michael privately that, while this has been fun, his best interest would be probably be better served to hire a professional design firm with artists at the top of their field with a vast portfolio to view and years if not decades experience doing this sort of thing day in day out. I think he would be truly inspired by the results. I also mentioned this not necessarily needs to be an insanely expensive endeavour... but on the other hand you can't compromise on the very thing that will brand you permanently and project an heir of professionalism to the outside world and instill confidence.
You make some very valid points.
With that said:
1. Do you know Sinocelts background/work-history?
2. I'd be more than mildly surprised if someone came up with something better than what he has produced - he really has done a great job (he is, after-all, a professional in his field). If I simply look around at my gear, I can positively say, in my opinion, his logo trumps many, dare I say most of those on other equipment.

Let's look at some, shall we?




















Old 2nd January 2010
  #732
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We could go on and on.
Different? Yes
Better?...................????
Old 2nd January 2010
  #733
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Hey MadG - thanks for all that cut and paste work! Really makes a nice context and reference point at the end of all the design work. And yes, I agree Sinocelts works trumps most everything in that collection and is bested by none.
Old 2nd January 2010
  #734
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You know Michael, I'm just a guy who writes and plays music. I'm not an artist or designer, etc. but I do think I have pretty good ears and eyes. I believe I am somewhat of a sampling of your target customer base.

With that said, after looking at everything and thinking about it and just *feeling* it (it's been fun for me, which is why I've chimed in so much), this is my opinion based on thought and gut reaction:

This logo is just about perfect - it's beautiful, functional, unique enough and familiar enough:


I think a "mic" and the company who produces it can, and often do, have a combination of word and graphic logo, i.e.: Audio-Technica, Brauner, etc., etc., etc.
With that said, I really like the idea of having the *option* of having either and or both on any given product.
As time has gone on, I have come to really like Sinocelt's favorite (better than my previous favorite of his):


It does not employ the oh so frequently used diamond but has a familiarity with it. Obviously, the diamond emblem has been used by so many of the boutique mic makers to give an instant connection to the great mics of the past. Sinocelt's version, again, is pleasant to the eye, functional, unique enough and familiar enough - without being cult-ish in any way, IMO.

I'd love to see Sinocelt put both of these (graphic in the middle, written placed lower) on a few LD mics of different colors (silver, black, and maybe another color or three) and see how it looks. I bet it would really kick butt.

In any case, Sinocelt you have done some really cool things here.

And Micheal, the best of luck on whatever you decide (whether it be one of Sin's creations or not) and, of course, your new line of products.

-Mad
Old 2nd January 2010
  #735
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinocelt View Post
If you do like this one, then -- Gemini rejoice! -- maybe you can have both a bug logo and a typographical one, because one is directly extracted from the other:
Check with your lawyer, but it shouldn't be impossible to register the bug as the logo, and the other as a typographical extension -- both official.
Yeah, you can look how many others have from MadG's post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by joelpatterson View Post
The truly great thing about the (i)"microphone" part of the logo is the way it resembles the modern "on/off" button, which has a universal recognizability, even if people don't recognize it.
I would remove the full circle surround from the toosie pop though thus removing on/off similarity. Just make it a half round or 1/3 round or an always negative so the stick isn't real. It works.

Quote:
Originally Posted by joelpatterson View Post
Goodnight, Joel.
I wouldn't worry about the dilution aspect, because it's so subliminal. It's the status where "it seems familiar but I can't say why," which is one of the hallmarks of fine design, yes?
Only when it isn't a negative connotation, like resembling a swastika, a stigmatized symbol of death, nine!.
A tootsie pop, a symbol of Telly Savales, Hella!.
A house, symbol of family, a badge, symbol of honor and integrity.
All those things have to be combed through before a presentation. I shot down thirty or so badges before presenting my obviously inferior design because they really didn't work, I could have shot down more.
Attached Thumbnails
China Mic Trip Pictures and Thoughts-logos.jpg   China Mic Trip Pictures and Thoughts-joly-scematic-logo.jpg   China Mic Trip Pictures and Thoughts-joly-scematic-logoii.jpg  
Old 2nd January 2010
  #736
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no doubt that a few of sinocelts designs are better than all those other mic companies listed.....


WOW, some of those companies however, have been very successful with a really horrible logo...............
Old 3rd January 2010
  #737
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tapehiss View Post
no doubt that a few of sinocelts designs are better than all those other mic companies listed.....

WOW, some of those companies however, have been very successful with a really horrible logo...............
Exactly, so, it depends on the sensibilities. I like a logo that means something, germane to the product and the overarching goal of the company and the ethos of the owner, fused into a logo, so it explains rather than hides, so it's a clear statement of what's up with who/what it represents. Some products represent a price point for a knock off, and their logo represents that, it has no real identity.
Then you take the originals and their logo represents well what they do, workmanship, and product life, they are near verities of their craft.

I don't know that it is even a real consideration as it pertains to MJ, but, I would assume it would be in the long run. People often think that their "plan" is "good enough for them" but many rarely consider that their "plan" for their endeavor is not suited to the well-being of their craft in it's entirety, as in, customers, workers, and owner in that order. I posit that it could be just as important in a representative logo, as far as longevity is concerned, what does it say about your company, your ethics, your product?
Doesn't have to look old or art deco, those mics came from that period, maybe something modern that also represents the period and capabilities of this era?

Anybody notice that Wunder, & Horch logos are a rip of Neumann's,

Anybody know what symbol this is?
Attached Thumbnails
China Mic Trip Pictures and Thoughts-joly-scematic-logoii.jpg  
Old 3rd January 2010
  #738
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Quote:
I've been done since post #659, actually. The last series of logos (each more complex than the one before) was really aimed at Chris, not intended for Michael.
Yeah but the fish (Michael, the client) has been taking the bait. You were onto some serviceable designs earlier in the thread, then you started deliberately churning out **** (pardon my choice of words) -- designs you knew were subpar, to perturb me, and Michael has been eating them up (no offense, Michael) because they look like "Hu" (or chocolate bars) and evoke yin and yang and have secret meanings -- all the wrong reasons. This speaks not to the quality of your graphics work but to your professionalism.

The tilted "MJ" logo can still be misread as backwards-"E" and "C". If you'd left it alone it would unambiguously read "MJ" every time. The stick-and-ball mic in the other logo looks like an SM58 without the taper -- not the kind of mic Michael generally deals with. Rather than grinding out useless design after useless design (e.g. whirling hammers) it would be far more productive to be thinking about how a logo is going to be used other than on the body of a microphone: company stationery, packaging, advertisements, integrating model numbers on the mics themselves, that kind of thing.

Going with a high-end design house can be expensive, which is why I was pushing for a logotype. Pick the right professionally-designed typeface and most of the work is done for you. You simply lay it out and perhaps add containing elements and you're all set.

Sorry if this post comes across as harsh but I feel it necessary to be absolutely candid. None of us wants to see Michael end up with a company identity which, to the discerning eye, has "junior college" written all over it.
Old 3rd January 2010
  #739
Gear Maniac
 

[QUOTE=mingustoo;4941554]
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadGuitrst View Post





Does anyone else see this as "HJ" instead of "MJ"?




This logo has some subtones that are a bit disturbing. Almost like a symbol clash, as opposed to a cymbal crash
Old 3rd January 2010
  #740
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadGuitrst View Post
A couple of opinions, if I may.



That looks like the logo of a religious cult.




That's a little busy on the eyes.

Thank you you said what I would not. There are dark overtones to those "cufflinks"
logos
Old 3rd January 2010
  #741
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Like the frank zappa tune with "the wrist array"?
Old 3rd January 2010
  #742
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First, thanks to MadG for gathering so many logos, thus making comparisons so much easier. While I'm done with the design process itself, I thought I may provide a graphical answer to a couple suggestions:

Quote:
Originally Posted by memphisindie View Post
I would remove the full circle surround from the toosie pop though thus removing on/off similarity. Just make it a half round or 1/3 round or an always negative so the stick isn't real. It works.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MadGuitrst View Post
I'd love to see Sinocelt put both of these (graphic in the middle, written placed lower) on a few LD mics of different colors (silver, black, and maybe another color or three) and see how it looks. I bet it would really kick butt.


I... don't think this is working. These two logos have very different auras, and to my eye, they clash. The MJi logo is more friendly, while the MJ8 logo has a more serious aura; as you insightfully pointed out, it reminds one of the "diamond" used by Neumann and its imitators without being a diamond and thus a copycat. I don't share Chris's fears that people will see there an E and a C; actually, I don't think people will see initials at all unless those are pointed out to them -- or unless, at least, they already know the name of the company.



Quote:
Originally Posted by tapehiss View Post
WOW, some of those companies however, have been very successful with a really horrible logo...............
A good reminder that, when all is said and done, people are going to care more about the sound of a microphone than about its logo.
Old 3rd January 2010
  #743
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Quote:
I don't share Chris's fears that people will see there an E and a C
If I see them other people will see them. If you simply right the logo it becomes a non-issue and the "MJ" initials become apparent.

Quote:
I don't think people will see initials at all unless those are pointed out to them
So what's the point? You've just vitiated the rationale for your own design!
Old 3rd January 2010
  #744
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinocelt View Post





I... don't think this is working. These two logos have very different auras, and to my eye, they clash.
I think they look great together! I'd love to see them on a silver mic, especially one with a larger body.


Quote:
The MJi logo is more friendly, while the MJ8 logo has a more serious aura
The Yin and Yang of logos my friend...............
It's that very balance that I like so much.

Quote:
I don't share Chris's fears that people will see there an E and a C; actually, I don't think people will see initials at all unless those are pointed out to them -- or unless, at least, they already know the name of the company.
I agree with that. I think they will first see a symbol - a trademark logo. Then they will notice, or someone will point out, that it's actually Mike's initials, at which point the response, if any, will probably be "cool!".

BTW, the reason I'd like to see them both on a silver mic is because I think the black color attributes to the auras, more specifically, the dark aura of the MJ8 logo - kind of like a Darth Vader effect.

In all, IMO, the black 414 is not a good choice for demoing the dual logos because of both the color and relatively small surface area.
Old 3rd January 2010
  #745
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Sheesh, Nobody said anything about my last one. It was the schematic symbol for a condenser mic. Deeeeeeeeeniiiiiiied.
better make the circle on top of the tootsie pop 1/3rd, still looks too close to OFF.
Old 3rd January 2010
  #746
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I'm sorry Memphis, but that logo looks like it's on LSD or something.......
Old 3rd January 2010
  #747
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I'll buy a Michael Joly microphone for everyone who hasn't submitted a logo in this thread, which excludes just about everybody.

Maybe.
Old 3rd January 2010
  #748
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadGuitrst View Post
I think they look great together!
Ah well, we can't agree on all points.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MadGuitrst View Post
I'd love to see them on a silver mic, especially one with a larger body.



Old 3rd January 2010
  #749
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadGuitrst View Post
I'm sorry Memphis, but that logo looks like it's on LSD or something.......
Ha! I think it's hipmotizin! I like it in B&W, but, color was too much. Shading was too much too.
Old 3rd January 2010
  #750
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris319 View Post
I'll buy a Michael Joly microphone for everyone who hasn't submitted a logo in this thread, which excludes just about everybody.

Maybe.
You owe me a mic.
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