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China Mic Trip Pictures and Thoughts Condenser Microphones
Old 26th December 2009
  #511
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Just a heads up about MJM. MJM is a company that makes guitar pedals: MJM boutique guitar pedals and effects, fuzz, distortion, overdrive, univibe, rotovibe, octaver and more
Old 26th December 2009
  #512
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael_Joly View Post
Fascination stuff! I've been hanging back to leave some space for more opinions.
Uh? Who are you?

Oh yeah, the guy who makes the microphones. I'd forgotten about that.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael_Joly View Post
DRP - if you're still following this thread I'd love to hear your thoughts since the badge treatments started with you.
I think DRP's blazon would look great in solid bronze with a tarnished finish like this one:



Moreover, the MJM symmetry will make the blazon look better than the original MJE.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Stolle View Post
Just a heads up about MJM. MJM is a company that makes guitar pedals: MJM boutique guitar pedals and effects, fuzz, distortion, overdrive, univibe, rotovibe, octaver and more
Yes, I'd googled "MJM" and found that out; but it may be hard to find any combination of three letters that isn't already used by somebody somewhere.
Old 26th December 2009
  #513
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stolle View Post
Just a heads up about MJM. MJM is a company that makes guitar pedals: MJM boutique guitar pedals and effects, fuzz, distortion, overdrive, univibe, rotovibe, octaver and more
doh. Thanks for that bit of info. Lawyers get all funky when two companies have similar marks in the same industry.

How about "Michael Joly", "Microphones" and some form of concentric circle graphic? I'm fond of ancient / cosmological radiating energy symbols. No whirling hammers of Thor though, please.
Old 26th December 2009
  #514
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael_Joly View Post
doh. Thanks for that bit of info. Lawyers get a funky when two companies have similar marks in the same industry.
Check with yours. They make guitars; you make microphones. Same industry, yes, but different products altogether.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael_Joly View Post
How about "Michael Joly", "Microphones" and some form of concentric circle graphic?
That's how I made the stylized round logos I submitted: I drew concentric circles and cut into them.

And talking of concentric circles...

Audio Technica's logo is pretty neat, BTW.

[EDIT:] Here's your new logo!
Old 26th December 2009
  #515
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I liked the red and gold, maybe in an emblazoned version.
This is getting funnier and funnier.
Old 26th December 2009
  #516
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Just an opinion or two Sinocelt:

I don't like the seal idea, I just don't.

Find a shape and a color:
The greats have/had a logo with an instantly recognizable shape and color (even if it's just a black and silver diamond). So, even if you can't read the letters, you know the microphone.

Shape: How about the shape of a pyramid?
Or 3 pyramids, two small on the side with M and one large in the middle with J....with the small one slightly overlapping the large one.

Or maybe a Heptagon - seven sided, slightly off, slightly upward, catchy to the eye (maybe even an irregular heptogon with a wider bottom and aspiring top).

Color: Red had been used by Neumann but red means stop.
How about the color green (if you must use colors, per se)?

Font: Don't make the font too tricky to the eye - for a product like this, IMHO, I would want something a little more straightforward in that regard.

Of course, you could always use a phallic symbol of some sort.
Old 26th December 2009
  #517
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadGuitrst View Post
Just an opinion or two Sinocelt:

I don't like the seal idea, I just don't.

Find a shape and a color:
The greats have/had a logo with an instantly recognizable shape and color (even if it's just a black and silver diamond). So, even if you can't read the letters, you know the microphone.

Shape: How about the shape of a pyramid?
Or 3 pyramids, two small on the side with M and one large in the middle with J....with the small one slightly overlapping the large one.

Or maybe a Heptagon - seven sided, slightly off, slightly upward, catchy to the eye (maybe even an irregular heptogon with a wider bottom and aspiring top).

Color: Red had been used by Neumann but red means stop.
How about the color green (if you must use colors, per se)?

Font: Don't make the font too tricky to the eye - for a product like this, IMHO, I would want something a little more straightforward in that regard.

Of course, you could always use a phallic symbol of some sort.

agreed!!!!

also, i don't think "MJM" would be a problem as long as under the initials in small print the words michael joly microphones appeared on the logo.

because their copyright is for: "MJM guitar effect inc"
Old 27th December 2009
  #518
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Michael -

Keep in mind that a logo is not only going to be embodied in the seal/emblem/badge of the mics themselves, but is going to be the graphic identity of the entire company. It will be used for company letterhead, envelopes, checks, business cards, memo pads, invoices, all manner of forms, the sign on the front of the building, decals on the sides of vehicles, web pages, packaging, product documentation, sell sheets, catalogs, banners at trade shows, you name it. Whatever you use will have to work in 2D media such as print and web pages, both in color and black and white (I still remember my marketing and graphics courses at S.F. State a lot of years ago).

Quote:
Font: Don't make the font too tricky to the eye - for a product like this, IMHO, I would want something a little more straightforward in that regard.
This cannot be emphasized enough. The eye should not have to "work" to discern the logo and there should be no ambiguity (a "j" which looks like a "g").

Quote:
Find a shape and a color
You don't even need those. There are many excellent logos consisting of type alone:

http://www.soundsaliveaudio.com/pict...line_White.jpg

http://www.righttrackmarketing.com/images/EV%20logo.jpg

http://www.pycomall.com/images/P/Sony_400.gif

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_eoyom__izi...logo-feb08.jpg

Quote:
Audio Technica's logo is pretty neat, BTW.
The concentric circle and triangle are known as a "bug" in graphics parlance. The nice thing about a bug is that it says "Audio Technica" with our without the company name being spelled out in type (as does the CBS eye). Though not a bug per se, the EV logo says "Electro-Voice" with or without the company name being spelled out.

Quote:
i don't think "MJM" would be a problem as long as under the initials in small print the words michael joly microphones appeared on the logo
It doesn't matter. If there is even a remote possibility it will create confusion in the minds of consumers/the public/the industry, it should be avoided.

Please, oh please don't have a logo which incorporates representations of phone plugs in it:

MJM boutique guitar pedals and effects, fuzz, distortion, overdrive, univibe, rotovibe, octaver and more

FWIW, a seal/emblem/badge attached to a mic can come off, i.e. become physically unattached to the mic. In addition, making and attaching them will be an added manufacturing expense -- something to think about.
Old 27th December 2009
  #519
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Quote:
you could always use a phallic symbol of some sort.
Electro-Voice made phallic microphones for many years and they were seen all over national television:

http://www.coutant.org/655c/old655c.pdf
Old 27th December 2009
  #520
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It's official, we've all lost it.
Old 27th December 2009
  #521
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This thread has become a knitting circle. heh
...here's my idea...how about a picture of a thread jumping a shark?cause that's what's happened here....any brownies left?
Old 27th December 2009
  #522
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Mike's Mikes

Quote:
Originally Posted by MadGuitrst View Post
Just an opinion or two Sinocelt:
I read your opinions, and my answer is: why don't you give it a go? I'm not being sarcastic. You don't need to make a 3D rendition. I designed logos professionally, yet I remember one time when a complete amateur produced a sketched logo that -- in everyone's opinion, including mine -- beat what I had carefully designed on a computer. If you've got ideas, don't hesitate to give them shape!


Quote:
Originally Posted by chris319 View Post
Keep in mind that a logo is not only going to be embodied in the seal/emblem/badge of the mics themselves, but is going to be the graphic identity of the entire company. It will be used for company letterhead, envelopes, checks, business cards, memo pads, invoices, all manner of forms, the sign on the front of the building, decals on the sides of vehicles, web pages, packaging, product documentation, sell sheets, catalogs, banners at trade shows, you name it. Whatever you use will have to work in 2D media such as print and web pages, both in color and black and white (I still remember my marketing and graphics courses at S.F. State a lot of years ago).
You have no idea how many times I had to argue the last point. Even just last year, when the department I work for chose a color logo with thin lines and small text. I tried to point out that, at the size of a stamp, it would be be hard to make out, and even more if printed or photocopied in black and white, but... *shrug*

All the logos I designed were, of course, designed in 2D first. (Yes, that does include the seal logo.)



Quote:
Originally Posted by chris319 View Post
This cannot be emphasized enough. The eye should not have to "work" to discern the logo and there should be no ambiguity (a "j" which looks like a "g").
Yeaaah. This is correct. For me, it was a J because that's what I typed; this knowledge prevented me from seeing that it could be confused with another letter.


The names are known; not the logos. Shure's is a little distinctive, and EV does have a logo, but if you'd asked me "what is Toshiba's logo?", I wouldn't have been able to tell you, unlike that of, let's say, Dell, Mercedes or Audio Technica.


Quote:
Originally Posted by chris319 View Post
The concentric circle and triangle are known as a "bug" in graphics parlance. The nice thing about a bug is that it says "Audio Technica" with our without the company name being spelled out in type (as does the CBS eye). Though not a bug per se, the EV logo says "Electro-Voice" with or without the company name being spelled out.
Right. This is why Toshiba (a short name) can manage without a "real" logo, but Michael Joly Microphones (a much longer name) cannot.


Quote:
Originally Posted by chris319 View Post
It doesn't matter. If there is even a remote possibility it will create confusion in the minds of consumers/the public/the industry, it should be avoided.
MJM = Michael Joly Microphones = exactly what it is all about. It's clear, and to give it up because there's a (not very well-known) company making guitar effects that also uses MJM as part of its name would be, in my opinion, a pity. Anyway, this is something Michael should really discuss with his lawyer, but since it is perfectly straightforward (his real initials + what he produces), I don't think it'll be a problem.


Quote:
Originally Posted by chris319 View Post
Please, oh please don't have a logo which incorporates representations of phone plugs in it:

MJM boutique guitar pedals and effects, fuzz, distortion, overdrive, univibe, rotovibe, octaver and more
I don't think he would.
Old 27th December 2009
  #523
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinocelt View Post
I read your opinions, and my answer is: why don't you give it a go? I'm not being sarcastic. You don't need to make a 3D rendition. I designed logos professionally, yet I remember one time when a complete amateur produced a sketched logo that -- in everyone's opinion, including mine -- beat what I had carefully designed on a computer. If you've got ideas, don't hesitate to give them shape!
No, you're the talent here, not me.
I'm merely a viewer, part of the target audience being an armchair quarterback.
Old 27th December 2009
  #524
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Mike's Mikes

Quote:
Originally Posted by MadGuitrst View Post
No, you're the talent here, not me.
I'm merely a viewer, part of the target audience being an armchair quarterback.
Hm, I've already designed what I had in mind, and I won't have time to do more for the next few days at the very least. I'm open to criticism, though. I can try and critic my own work but, of course, not without bias. Still, I can at least get the ball rolling:



Pro: This one would look classy on a letter and, once "lacquered" in Photoshop, gorgeous in emails and on a website. I also like the blend of rigor (the circles) and fantasy (the outer frame of "wax").

Con: The "J" (which I chose for of its likeness to a musical key) would have to be changed, since it can be confused with a "g." Also, the circling letters could be bigger. These aspects can be changed, but a more fundamental problem is that this logo, made into an emblem, may not look as good on a mike as I'd imagined.



Pro: I... like this one. I enjoy the blend of straight lines and curves, and while the letters may not be immediately recognizable, they pop out when you know what the initials are (and let's remember that most logos don't even give clues -- e.g. Mercedes). It is easy to draw, easy to recognize even when reduced to tiny proportions, and would look good on a wide range of supports.

Con: The initials have changed from MJE to MJM, so this logo has become irrelevant. -_-



Pro: Clear, and everything fits. To three Os (JOLY / MICROPHONES) correspond three dots in the initials; the small L seems to mirror the small J; everything is balanced. The dot on the big J, surrounded as it is, looks not unlike a diaphragm under its grid. The rectangular shape would be perfect as the back of a business card, and would fit easily on a website. Finally, for me at least, it has an "old vibe" (it reminds me of old radios).

Con: The rectangular shape doesn't marry well with shapes that are not rectangular, such as the body of any microphone.
Old 27th December 2009
  #525
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Quote:
The names are known; not the logos.
That's not the point. The point is that those four logos are comprised solely of type with no seal, bug or emblem save for a containing rectangle in the cases of Shure and E-V.

Quote:
MJM = Michael Joly Microphones = exactly what it is all about. It's clear, and to give it up because there's a (not very well-known) company making guitar effects that also uses MJM as part of its name would be, in my opinion, a pity. Anyway, this is something Michael should really discuss with his lawyer, but since it is perfectly straightforward (his real initials + what he produces), I don't think it'll be a problem.
Brand confusion is never a good thing, lawyer or no lawyer. Again, the issue is not whether Michael would be infringing on someone else's trademark or company name, it's whether the public or those in the industry would confuse his company with a maker of guitar effects. At this point in time I don't think Michael Joly is well known outside of us mic aficionados.
Old 27th December 2009
  #526
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris319 View Post
That's not the point. The point is that those four logos are comprised solely of type with no seal, bug or emblem save for a containing rectangle in the cases of Shure and E-V.
And you seem to forget what I added: that "Michael Joly Microphones" is too long a name to follow that example.


Quote:
Originally Posted by chris319 View Post
Brand confusion is never a good thing, lawyer or no lawyer. Again, the issue is not whether Michael would be infringing on someone else's trademark or company name, it's whether the public or those in the industry would confuse his company with a maker of guitar effects. At this point in time I don't think Michael Joly is well known outside of us mic aficionados.
While everyone has heard of MJM guitar effects? You think that choosing for himself a name less straightforward than "Michael Joly Microphones" won't be more confusing?
Old 27th December 2009
  #527
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinocelt View Post


Pro: Clear, and everything fits. To three Os (JOLY / MICROPHONES) correspond three dots in the initials; the small L seems to mirror the small J; everything is balanced. The dot on the big J, surrounded as it is, looks not unlike a diaphragm under its grid. The rectangular shape would be perfect as the back of a business card, and would fit easily on a website. Finally, for me at least, it has an "old vibe" (it reminds me of old radios).

Con: The rectangular shape doesn't marry well with shapes that are not rectangular, such as the body of any microphone.
This one has the most potential IMO. This version doesn't look like the leather label from a pair of Levi's. If you want input, might I suggest filling in the MJM letters in black and joining the circles in the Ms to the rest of the character? If he decides against "MJM" you can still work with this one. Speaking of brand confusion, when people hear "MJ" will they think of Michael Joly and his microphones or a recently-deceased pop star?

I don't know why you would want a company logo on the back of a business card. I also think the rectangular shape would marry just fine with a cylindrical mic body.
Old 27th December 2009
  #528
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris319 View Post
This one has the most potential IMO. This version doesn't look like the leather label from a pair of Levi's. If you want input, might I suggest filling in the MJM letters in black and joining the circles in the Ms to the rest of the character?
I don't like the idea, but it's easy to try out:




Quote:
Originally Posted by chris319 View Post
If he decides against "MJM" you can still work with this one. Speaking of brand confusion, when people hear "MJ" will they think of Michael Joly and his microphones or a recently-deceased pop star?
It's... more of a risk, actually, I believe. I hadn't thought about that.


Quote:
Originally Posted by chris319 View Post
I don't know why you would want a company logo on the back of a business card.
Not on the back, as the back: the whole back.


Quote:
Originally Posted by chris319 View Post
I also think the rectangular shape would marry just fine with a cylindrical mic body.
Correct. But not so well with a slightly conical shape. :o/

[Edit] Wait! You gave me an idea. On a cylindrical or even conical microphone, the lines could be extended to circle the body...



Mmh... Or maybe not.
Old 27th December 2009
  #529
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I have to join Madguitarist on this... not feeling the love for the wax seal at all. I thought it looked cool at first until I saw it actually on a mic. Every time I see it repeated here my gut reaction to it is that it looks like a wad of gum or a candy stuck to an otherwise nice looking microphone, which probably has more to do with the asymmetrical shape than anything. To be honest, if I received a mic with that on it I'd probably try to remove it, round it off perfectly and put it back on (or just leave it off).

The badge, however, looks smokin' ... and high end.

EDIT
I mean the badge in post #513... not the latest one which is way too busy (I used to design logos as well).
Old 27th December 2009
  #530
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkunkWorks View Post
I have to join Madguitarist on this... not feeling the love for the wax seal at all. I thought it looked cool at first until I saw it actually on a mic. Every time I see it repeated here my gut reaction to it is that it looks like a wad of gum or a candy stuck to an otherwise nice looking microphone, which probably has more to do with the asymmetrical shape than anything. To be honest, if I received a mic with that on it I'd probably try to remove it, round it off perfectly and put it back on (or just leave it off).
Sometimes, good ideas are just that: good ideas. :o/

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkunkWorks View Post
The badge, however, looks smokin' ... and high end.

EDIT
I mean the badge in post #513...


I very much agree. But I doubt Neumann will let Michael use it! Moreover, this badge looks great because of the material used, its color and texture, and even the lighting. Would it still look smoking as a two-dimensional, black-and-white logo? Not so sure. Otherwise, Michael could have this photo rasterized:



Quote:
Originally Posted by SkunkWorks View Post
not the latest one which is way too busy (I used to design logos as well).
Well, yeah, but if Michael wants the initials and the full name in the logo...



Otherwise, I still think that DRP's blazon logo would look great in tarnished bronze (like the Neumann medal above), maybe with just "MJM" on it. "Michael Joly Microphones" could just be printed somewhere else on the mic.



Old 27th December 2009
  #531
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Yeah I meant the concept of the #513 logo (wink)...
but, yeah, that last one in red achieves what I'm getting at and could probably be tweaked to look even better... maybe not even necessarily a "badge" shape per say. I also think the smaller the better and classier... not big and gaudy which would make it cheap looking. This of course is in reference to the actual mic badge itself.

EDIT
But I do like the aspects of the #513 that you mentioned... "material used, its color and texture"

What's nice about that red though is that it's a deeper darker red (crimson?)... very classy.
Old 27th December 2009
  #532
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Old 27th December 2009
  #533
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... and that its width and height are the same (whatever the word for that is?)

(wink)

Again, I'm talking about the mic badge itself.
Old 27th December 2009
  #534
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Variations on a theme.

To make the "M" characters less of a picture puzzle, the circles were moved closer to the upper member of the "M". In addition, the hook of the "J" was shortened and the whole works compressed vertically:



Same but with letters filled in:



Background filled in and corners of "M" and "J" rounded (but not very well). It's not all outliney.



Same but "M" and "J" shorter. Not perfect but it has possibilities:

Old 27th December 2009
  #535
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinocelt View Post
BOO! tutt

Same to the one that looks like a U.S. Forest Service emblem.
Old 27th December 2009
  #536
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Hmmm.

Not really feelin' anything at all about that logo. Sorry guys.

Maybe a better way to start would be to ask Mr. J if he wants classic or contemporary. Branding is important and something you'll have to commit to and live with forever.

Personally, the classic old school concepts of the red "forestry" one and the "#513" one appeal to me more. Maybe not so much the shape of the red one but I really dig everything else about it... but that's just i.m.h.o.
Old 27th December 2009
  #537
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Quote:
Not really feelin' anything at all about that logo.
Do you have a discernable reason for not liking it or is it simply not to your personal taste? Opera is not to my personal taste but some people love it.

You want solid bronze medallions as shown in post #513? That's pretty much telling the world, "Hey, we're ripping off Neumann lock, stock and emblem". What will these solid bronze medallions cost to produce? You're going to need different batches of medallions depending on whether they're being mounted to a flat surface or to mics of various circumferences (LDC and SDC, for example). If you're charging Neumann prices for your products then yeah, you can afford to have fancy medallions.
Old 27th December 2009
  #538
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Another inspiration:

Old 27th December 2009
  #539
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris319 View Post
Do you have a discernable reason for not liking it or is it simply not to your personal taste? Opera is not to my personal taste but some people love it.

You want solid bronze medallions as shown in post #513? That's pretty much telling the world, "Hey, we're ripping off Neumann lock, stock and emblem". What will these solid bronze medallions cost to produce? You're going to need different batches of medallions depending on whether they're being mounted to a flat surface or to mics of various circumferences (LDC and SDC, for example). If you're charging Neumann prices for your products then yeah, you can afford to have fancy medallions.
pm'd you on that one (was more than a matter of personal taste).
Old 27th December 2009
  #540
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkunkWorks View Post
... Maybe a better way to start would be to ask Mr. J if he wants classic or contemporary. Branding is important and something you'll have to commit to and live with forever...
Lots of talent and good eyes here. I'm happy to wait it out a bit, read the reactions and see if a community consensus appears.
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