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China Mic Trip Pictures and Thoughts Condenser Microphones
Old 20th December 2009
  #451
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Sinocelt's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by The MPCist View Post
This is very nice and original -- never saw a mic or audio equipment with this kind of mark. Great job!
Thank you. I thought it would be both classy and distinctive, making the MJE mics easy to recognize at a glance, though I just played with the concept (see below) and didn't spend the time necessary to make it as clean/readable as it'd need to be.
Old 20th December 2009
  #452
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tapehiss's Avatar
very cool...

kinda like a classic envelope seal.

gearslutz has some very creative and generous designers.
Old 20th December 2009
  #453
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tapehiss View Post
very cool...
Thank you kindly.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tapehiss View Post
kinda like a classic envelope seal.
Yes, that's the idea. Wax seals carry an aura of prestige: they were used on important envelopes, as you pointed out, and scrolls -- the cylindrical shape of which can be likened to that of a microphone.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tapehiss View Post
gearslutz has some very creative and generous designers.
I designed webpages for Microsoft... more than ten years ago. Software has changed quite a "byte" since then!
Old 20th December 2009
  #454
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Welcome Sinocelt! Great visual thinking. Thanks for your contributions!

The traditionalist in me is inclined toward a more traditional metal badge for mic use, but...

as a "build" on DRP's idea around documentation - an actual wax seal could be used to close the Certificate of Authenticity envelope and authenticate the documents themselves.
Old 20th December 2009
  #455
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael_Joly View Post
Welcome Sinocelt! Great visual thinking. Thanks for your contributions!

The traditionalist in me is inclined toward a more traditional metal badge for mic use, but...
The idea was a metal badge in the form of a wax seal, of course, but I see what you mean. It's never been done before.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael_Joly View Post
as a "build" on DRP's idea around documentation - an actual wax seal could be used to close the Certificate of Authenticity envelope and authenticate the documents themselves.
Please, no actual wax on the microphone itself...
Old 20th December 2009
  #456
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I'm leaning more towards the 'seal' logo. It's very original and I agree, carries a sense of prestige and regality somehow...
Old 20th December 2009
  #457
And... a little trigger that somehow, when you open the box the mic comes in, says "Michael Joly Editions" in a Winston Churchill voice?
Old 20th December 2009
  #458
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Quote:
Originally Posted by memphisindie View Post
There was a run in the industry of what was called "Rich Content CD's" before the great decline became obvious. They were CD's with content veiwable on computer pics, webpage, lnks, movies, interviews.
It was abandoned early on. Maybe a comeback? Still, even with the interviews, a bit disingenuous, and bloody impersonal way to bring people into the culture of "that band". It could still have value.
It could, but this assumes people even want the physical CD. Apple has implemented a similar architecture now in iTunes, for a rich album-buying experience. Unfortunately, this is only going to make it easier to copy and upload.

Quote:
Rich content can not save studios, if you don't already have that going on you don't have much of a studio, because, studios had to have rich content from day one. Still, studios are also the victims of chinese dumping, big time. but, piracy is a MUCH bigger problem industry-wide.
I'm not totally sure what you're getting at. Studios aren't hurt directly by piracy, because we provide professional services, which can't be duped. We try to provide "rich services" that can't be imitated easily, by focusing on the quality of our people and our approach.

Quote:
Rich Content has no meaning if you aren't actually very clear on what it means, to you and the customer, and how to provide it, which labels didn't.
The last round of "rich content CD's, could only be watched well on the computers that created them, above the reach of most customers. For them the experience was crap. NOW most people have a computer capable of appreciating it.
... but NOW they don't necessarily want a CD at all. I'm afraid all this rich content is more expensive to produce than it is effective at dealing with the basic problem.

Quote:
Content hasn't been provided in a manner that is can be respected, it's TOO easy to pirate, it needs to have a respectable obstacle to that. Make it impossible for it to be copied by the everyday guy, and make it easy to be copied at a low quality by hackers only and you have a start. Fool them into thinking they have it copied and have it be a wrecked lo-res copy. Let them destroy their own reputation.
The pirates have developed their culture, THEY will have to destroy it. WE, as providers, can help them out by giving CD's a rich content again that is designed to suck and implode on pirates.
Frankly, this is just a fantasy. The reality is that in the digital era, our expectations have to change. We can't innovate our way backwards to how it used to be, and it's foolish to try or to pretend that's an option. You can take that to the bank.

Quote:
They become part of the culture of quality. The won't be returning to the culture of "making excuses for low quality and giving it a name which makes it sound like they did it on purpose".
Some of them, yes. But lots of folks ultimately are focused on their own involvement as being the ultimate goal, and for many of them, the culture of quality is going to exclude them from what they want to be doing.

Quote:
Back in the Album days it was new and the customers created their own "culture of listeners" to like products, i.e. King Crimson listeners, POP listeners etc..
I think that still exists today.

Quote:
Apple Computer has been dominated by IBM and it's tentacles for decades, Apple provides a superior service, but, IBM et.al. provide market domination and total saturation based on price. The windows system is a knockoff of the mac system, settled that in court. The buyers of IBM type products developed their own cultures, which is why they are still around, they aren't controlled by the company.
Actually, IBM hasn't been a factor since the '80s. They were in fact part of the PowerPC alliance that supplied Apple with CPUs from about 1994 through 2005.

Quote:
Their customer service is legendary for sucking hard, that is the last leg of the table that make it stand, that is the incomplete section of their culture. If they get that handled they will overtake Bill Gates creation.
They actually rank highly in customer service surveys of PC manufacturers, although that may be damning with faint praise. I kind of get the sense that all of your data is 15-20 years old in this part of the discussion.

JSL
Old 20th December 2009
  #459
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CaliTone's Avatar
 

I just wanted to jump into this thread and add that I just got my Sterling Audio mic modified by Mr. Joly. Let me just say, the sound is a night and day difference. I couldn't even use the mic before unless it was for scratch vocals or as a paper weight, or something to kill spiders with.

I am really looking forward to Michael's line of microphones. I'll be first in line when they come out.

Thank you Michael!!
Old 21st December 2009
  #460
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thank you Calitone!

Quote:
Originally Posted by joelpatterson View Post
And... a little trigger that somehow, when you open the box the mic comes in, says "Michael Joly Editions" in a Winston Churchill voice?
Once again JP you're humor is not far reality. I'm going to include an MP3 recording of me thanking each person for their purchase of their particular mic (serial number xxxx) that will be recorded by me with their own mic. I'll include a little weather report or rumination on the day that their mic was finished along with a comment about their mic's individual frequency response chart. This will get sent out as an attachment when their mic is shipped.
Old 21st December 2009
  #461
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Matti's Avatar
That´s a nice idea

Matti
Old 21st December 2009
  #462
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael_Joly View Post
thank you Calitone!



Once again JP you're humor is not far reality. I'm going to include an MP3 recording of me thanking each person for their purchase of their particular mic (serial number xxxx) that will be recorded by me with their own mic. I'll include a little weather report or rumination on the day that their mic was finished along with a comment about their mic's individual frequency response chart. This will get sent out as an attachment when their mic is shipped.
Hmmm. Coffee, ice cream, or Joly's voice giving me a Mass. weather report. Boy, that's a toughie...
Old 21st December 2009
  #463
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Sinocelt's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael_Joly View Post
I'm going to include an MP3 recording of me thanking each person for their purchase of their particular mic (serial number xxxx) that will be recorded by me with their own mic. I'll include a little weather report or rumination on the day that their mic was finished along with a comment about their mic's individual frequency response chart. This will get sent out as an attachment when their mic is shipped.
Old 21st December 2009
  #464
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hey Mr Sinocelt - look out for those French genes as they take over..for example...1997, 2009, 1988.
Attached Thumbnails
China Mic Trip Pictures and Thoughts-mj1998.jpg   China Mic Trip Pictures and Thoughts-mj20.jpg   China Mic Trip Pictures and Thoughts-mj1989china.jpg  
Old 21st December 2009
  #465
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jslevin View Post
It could, but this assumes people even want the physical CD. Apple has implemented a similar architecture now in iTunes, for a rich album-buying experience. Unfortunately, this is only going to make it easier to copy and upload.
Not if strong 64bit encryption is enabled.
Actually, it bets on that people will once again accept a CD once they can't pirate it. CD is still music currency. They still sell them off the stage. Computers still read and write them. Stores still sell them.
Quote:
I'm not totally sure what you're getting at. Studios aren't hurt directly by piracy, because we provide professional services, which can't be duped. We try to provide "rich services" that can't be imitated easily, by focusing on the quality of our people and our approach.
They get hurt when budgets for clients go down due to client not making as much $$ for their label or indie money collecting scheme.
Quote:
... but NOW they don't necessarily want a CD at all. I'm afraid all this rich content is more expensive to produce than it is effective at dealing with the basic problem.
I don't buy that, it's not the format that they don't want, it's the common content that they aren't paying for. Computers still ship with drives that read and write CD's. Stores still sell CD's and label makers.
Quote:
Frankly, this is just a fantasy. The reality is that in the digital era, our expectations have to change. We can't innovate our way backwards to how it used to be, and it's foolish to try or to pretend that's an option. You can take that to the bank.
I agree, there is no innovating backwards and that's not even what I propose. We NEVER did an EFFECTIVE job of preventing piracy or enforcing IP law glabally or even nationally, supply side or otherwise. When getting a pirated copy of a CD, if it did have encryption, the only way you could steal it would be to make an illegal copy with some effort. That can be traced. That can be made to be traced whenever a copy not containing the proper encryption is on a computer that connects to any www site. There's tons that can be done without removing 11khz from the audio stream. We should make it so that if you crack a CD the only file available is a lo-res VBR MP3.
Quote:

Some of them, yes. But lots of folks ultimately are focused on their own involvement as being the ultimate goal, and for many of them, the culture of quality is going to exclude them from what they want to be doing.
Yes it will. Good riddance to them.
Quote:

I think that still exists today.
To an extent, but,culture os listeners is not the norm anymore. It's culture of IP thieves now, people turned into thieves en masse by pirates. They steal your soul.
Quote:


Actually, IBM hasn't been a factor since the '80s. They were in fact part of the PowerPC alliance that supplied Apple with CPUs from about 1994 through 2005.
That's true enough bout IBM specifically, but, their progeny, Bill Gates et.al. progeny still dominate the market. Apple's share steadily increases, but, Windows still dominates, even though Gates himself is out and that he put 150million into Apple.
Quote:


They actually rank highly in customer service surveys of PC manufacturers, although that may be damning with faint praise. I kind of get the sense that all of your data is 15-20 years old in this part of the discussion.

JSL
I wish it were 15 -20 years ago that the local Apple Store had it's Geniuses replaced for being dip****s about customer service, but, it was only a few months ago. The new group and what's left of the old group are stellar. Their online guys are fine, usually, but, their resistance to fixing macs with "known issues" and disclosing "known issues" to customers likely to experience those issues, and a lack of productivity, or, worse, a crash and loss of data, is ABYSMALL, reprehensible, not "best practice", and highly suspect on legal grounds so much so, that if you mention that you have one (if you know you have one) you may get your mac fixed for free and rightfully so. I don't call that method of hiding the truth good customer service, it's standard practice yet "worst practice" It makes no difference to APPLE if you have an "Apple Care Protection Plan or not in these instances, even if you have one, they will disclose nothing, even if you don't have one, they will fix your machine.
They still make the best computer and still show the most growth in the right area. ALL their problems seem to come from earnest efforts to improve everything about their product, so, I can not hold any grievance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael_Joly View Post
hey Mr Sinocelt - look out for those French genes as they take over..for example...1997, 2009, 1988.
Look too much like a relative to me!
Old 21st December 2009
  #466
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Sinocelt's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by memphisindie View Post
Look too much like a relative to me!
I told my cousin Michael not to post those pictures, that people would get suspicious. tutt

The 2009 one is pretty cool, though, you must admit!
Old 21st December 2009
  #467
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Haha, yeah.
Old 23rd December 2009
  #468
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Sinocelt's Avatar
 



Hm. Red metal could work, but gold... maybe not, finally. (And yes, Michael, I know you've already decided for something else, but I was curious to see how it'd look, and playing around with pretty pictures is something I can do while listening to an audiobook, which is one of my last remaining pleasures theses day.)

I was imagining something similar to this:

Old 23rd December 2009
  #469
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Can you make the red metal's raised portion have a gold metal look?
That's what I was talking about earlier, but, this makes it clearer.
The metal is a gold or yellow bronze, the paint is a red translucent over that, and the raised portion pokes through to reveal the gold or yellow bonze underneath.
It would have to be a baked on translucent enamel. Like an old rolls royce.

Kinda like the wax seal, reminds me of wine, or a secret communique'.
Nice work.
Old 24th December 2009
  #470
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinocelt View Post
With Alfred Hitchcock's profile on it. That's cool.
Old 24th December 2009
  #471
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All of this makes me feel a little less foolish for buying a Sterling ST-51 for $45 at a pawn shop a few weeks back.

What can Mr. Joly do to this wonder of a mic?
Old 24th December 2009
  #472
Quote:
Originally Posted by low_z View Post
Not exactly a computer but... Chinese Ipod
$24!!!

That's disturbing.

For a 20G drive, that would be worthwhile. Even without the MP3 player, the video camera, EVERY U2 song and 1800 other songs and a copy of Monsters Inc.

Nope, the Chinese won't undersell you.
Old 24th December 2009
  #473
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Vintage, wine, wax seal

Quote:
Originally Posted by memphisindie View Post
Can you make the red metal's raised portion have a gold metal look?
Not without a lot more work. I'm not used to Photoshop: ten years ago, I was using Picture Publisher. Still, I could ask one of my friends (two of whom are professional graphic designers) to whip something up for me... if Michael had any interest in the idea, which he doesn't.


Quote:
Originally Posted by memphisindie View Post
That's what I was talking about earlier, but, this makes it clearer.
The metal is a gold or yellow bronze, the paint is a red translucent over that, and the raised portion pokes through to reveal the gold or yellow bonze underneath.
It would have to be a baked on translucent enamel. Like an old rolls royce.

Kinda like the wax seal, reminds me of wine, or a secret communique'.
Nice work.
The Rolls Royce reference flew right above my head, but the wine reference hit right on target. Yes, I can picture it: a good vintage from a "grand cru" -- hey! That's where vintage comes from, after all! From the Latin vinum (which became vin in French and "wine" in English). A vintage is, originally, a "wine, usually of high quality, identified as to year and vineyard or district of origin" (The American Heritage Dictionary, 4th Ed.). So yes, in that context, a wax seal makes even more sense.




By the way, Michael, if you aim at a vintage feel (and I know you do, at least for your two first offerings), I think that a tarnished bronze logo, such as the one with Hitch--Neumann's face in the pictures above, looks a lot classier than anything with paint, such as the red "Neumann" logo in the picture above on the left (though the color coding used by Neumann to separate its condenser, dynamic, tube, and digital microphones is practical). Tarnished bronze would fit well, I believe, with the "blazon" logo.
Old 24th December 2009
  #474
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Oh I haven't ruled out the wax blob, I've just been so busy building up and shipping MJE-K47H orders I haven't revisited the issue. But I do appreciate all the renderings!
Old 24th December 2009
  #475
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Just a side note, but, no one brought up the most important thing about China, and don't get all weird about it either, but:
How many girls can you have if you live there and what happens if you have too many?


OOh, that's a toughy for me to reconcile.
Old 25th December 2009
  #476
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robmix's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by memphisindie View Post
Just a side note, but, no one brought up the most important thing about China, and don't get all weird about it either, but:
How many girls can you have if you live there and what happens if you have too many?


OOh, that's a toughy for me to reconcile.
Girls or wives ? in most areas of china it's illegal to have more than one wife. My tai chi teacher's brother has multiple wives - he lives somewhere in the south of China. There's another region in the southwest where the women rule the roost. Men are invited into a home as a baby daddy, no real marriage, and if the wife gets sick of them they're given the boot. Uncles and grandparents help to raise the children.
Old 25th December 2009
  #477
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael_Joly View Post
OK, I'll take stab at answering my own question: "How do we as intellectual property creators (whether music, software, images or physical products) enhance the brand experience so much that low cost knock offs will only appeal to the lowest-price bottom dwellers while the high-value customers we really want to do business with will want to have an authentic brand experience"?

By providing a superior customer experience - personal service, a "consultive selling process", excellent quality audio demonstrations, a network of users who can share information about their experiences and product usage, well-written and complete technical documentation (individual frequency response curves - not just 'averaged' curves), a life time warrantee and a "studio-ready" story that impresses clients. What have I left out?
What you have left out is something that many of your fellow mic builders who deal with China have already discovered - don't build the entire mic in China.

Have the Chinese build an entire mic, yes - but when it gets to the States your small manufacturing facility here swaps out a few key parts, such as transformers, and performs other tweaks to the mic so that what you're selling is not the same thing that left China.

In other words you mod your own mics.
Old 25th December 2009
  #478
Quote:
Originally Posted by jslevin View Post
Michael, I admire your optimistic outlook. I think it's great to expect good things from people, on many different levels.

Having said that, the one thing I think your lawyer has wrong is this: There's hardly any respect for IP in the U.S., either. There is a strong legal tradition behind it, but within American culture you'll find basically no respect for it at all. Whether the product is music or software or the written, the average American's attitude is, "If you've already made it, why are you charging for it, and why should I pay for it?"

I think the "rich media" concept essentially has no meaning in the real world. All valuable content is digital at this point, and all digital content can be copied perfectly.

JSL
Wrong. Vinyl is the only segment of record sales that is currently showing an increasing market.

Why?

Because in fact a digital copy of vinyl does NOT sound like the original and people are rediscovering this fact - and that the vinyl version sounds better.

Your statement would be more correct if you had said "All mass market content is digital at this point." Of course mass market is, by definition, lowest common denominator stuff, and hence not that inherently valuable at all.
Old 25th December 2009
  #479
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynn Fuston View Post
Well if you want to go there (ease of use) then come up with a tube mic with two connectors on it. An XLR output and an IEC power cable input. All the second engineers in the world would kiss you on the lips.
Power supply noise.
Old 25th December 2009
  #480
Quote:
Originally Posted by memphisindie View Post

Apple Computer has been dominated by IBM and it's tentacles for decades, Apple provides a superior service, but, IBM et.al. provide market domination and total saturation based on price. The windows system is a knockoff of the mac system, settled that in court.
Apologies for hijacking the thread, but we need to clear something up here.

1) The first mass-market computer with a modern GUI was the Amiga, not the Mac. It was also the the first mass market computer capable of true pre-emptive multitasking. Every app that Apple claimed to have invented on the Mac was done first on the Amiga with the exception of monotone desktop publishing.

2) Windows was most definitely NOT a "clone of the Mac" and many misguided Mac heads claim. Both Mac and Windows were copies of the Xerox Star at PARC, as was the Amiga.

3) As noted above, Apple in general, and Steve Jobs in particular stole most of their "innovative" ideas from other companies and systems and are in fact just as big thieves of IP as Microsoft. Not at all the "innovators" they claim to be.


If the Amiga had had decent marketing it would be the dominant platform in the computing world today. Unfortunately the original designers were fored to sell out to Commodore, who had no idea what they had and totally dropped the ball. F*ck you, Mehdi Ali!

Into the vacuum marched Steve Jobs, who may not be any kind of computer innovator but is a hell of a marketer and knows a good idea to steal when he sees it. The rest is history, and, unfortunately the winners in history often rewrite the popular record to make themselves look a lot better than they really are.

And there was no "court settlement" of the sort you allege. That's pure fabrication.
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