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I'm finally doing it. I'm getting rid of my computer. Recorders, Players & Tape Machines
Old 2nd December 2009
  #211
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Batchainpuller78's Avatar
 

Oh yes man!!! Reverb mixer!

Beautiful and so much fun.
I use a 60's WEM audiomaster for that purpose, also mono, beautiful lush reverb, Big knobs like your Peavey and nice EQ Bass, Treble & Presence, The big knobs (i don't know why people insist on using small knobs in nowadays gear, Big knobs give you way more resolution and tactile feel) you can grab them and really fade the stuff in the mix.
Or have nice swells..

You are going to have so much pleasure in creating music that way, rolling the tape, Dubmixing with the Peavey. Filling 8! tracks which is perfect for a hands on live mix to stereo.

Yes as a few others I love this thread
Old 2nd December 2009
  #212
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memphisindie's Avatar
 

Oh snap! I've used one of those when they were new.
Oh yeah, I went there!
Old 2nd December 2009
  #213
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steelyfan's Avatar
 

All those random pieces, what a beautiful sight. Looks like the la-610 was designed with that Peavey mixer in mind, the e.q. and big knob seem similiar. **** man, where you been hiding the Moog stuff? The Peavey looks great with the tape machine. Will you be using any keyboards with this project? I want to hear some vocals - sherman - tape .
Old 2nd December 2009
  #214
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PlayRadioPlay's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Batchainpuller78 View Post
Oh yes man!!! Reverb mixer!

Beautiful and so much fun.
I use a 60's WEM audiomaster for that purpose, also mono, beautiful lush reverb, Big knobs like your Peavey and nice EQ Bass, Treble & Presence, The big knobs (i don't know why people insist on using small knobs in nowadays gear, Big knobs give you way more resolution and tactile feel) you can grab them and really fade the stuff in the mix.
Or have nice swells..

You are going to have so much pleasure in creating music that way, rolling the tape, Dubmixing with the Peavey. Filling 8! tracks which is perfect for a hands on live mix to stereo.

Yes as a few others I love this thread
Agreed about the knobs. I hate cheap little knobs. It's even worse when expensive gear has cheap knobs. Like the Neve 8816 :(. I expect it on low end stuff.




Quote:
Originally Posted by memphisindie View Post
Oh snap! I've used one of those when they were new.
Oh yeah, I went there!
That must make you... 100 years old!

Quote:
Originally Posted by steelyfan View Post
All those random pieces, what a beautiful sight. Looks like the la-610 was designed with that Peavey mixer in mind, the e.q. and big knob seem similiar. **** man, where you been hiding the Moog stuff? The Peavey looks great with the tape machine. Will you be using any keyboards with this project? I want to hear some vocals - sherman - tape .
Ah yes, I didn't think about the UA stuff with the similar knobs.

I'm a Moog fanatic. Here are most of the keyboards I have:


Not sure how much I'll be using them on the tape project. Maybe a lot, maybe a little. I actually plugged the mini moog into the new mixer to see if I could over drive it in a nice way, but there wasn't enough gain. The drums have plenty to hit it hard though, which is perfect.
Old 2nd December 2009
  #215
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memphisindie's Avatar
 

Yep, about 100.

Oh Crap! I've owned all those keyboards when the y were new too! Yeah, I went there too, WHAT? What? WHUHT?
Old 2nd December 2009
  #216
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PlayRadioPlay's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by memphisindie View Post
Yep, about 100.

Oh Crap! I've owned all those keyboards when the y were new too! Yeah, I went there too, WHAT? What? WHUHT?
Hahaha.
Old 2nd December 2009
  #217
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steelyfan's Avatar
 

Oy yea, what's the deal with that digital focusrite compressor/preamp emulator looking thing....It LOOKS hooked up.... I hope you don't think you are using that thing buddy?
Old 2nd December 2009
  #218
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PlayRadioPlay's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by steelyfan View Post
Oy yea, what's the deal with that digital focusrite compressor/preamp emulator looking thing....It LOOKS hooked up.... I hope you don't think you are using that thing buddy?
Haha that's the Focusrite Liquid Channel. Big piece of crap. And no, I won't be using it with this tape rig. That's blasphemous. tutt
Old 2nd December 2009
  #219
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Batchainpuller78's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by steelyfan View Post
All those random pieces, what a beautiful sight. Looks like the la-610 was designed with that Peavey mixer in mind, the e.q. and big knob seem similiar. **** man, where you been hiding the Moog stuff? The Peavey looks great with the tape machine. Will you be using any keyboards with this project? I want to hear some vocals - sherman - tape .
I think the UA Design is a wee bit earlier than the Peavey mixer Steely heh
Attached Thumbnails
I'm finally doing it. I'm getting rid of my computer.-ua_modular_console.jpg  
Old 2nd December 2009
  #220
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greatgreatriver's Avatar
 

Groovy studio man!

I recorded a short movie of my friend playing in my studio yesterday. I like to share. Let's all share!

YouTube - yamaha_cm20.wmv
Old 2nd December 2009
  #221
Gear Guru
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 

F*** me, that Peavey is pretty big! Sexy beast! Looking forward to hearing it!

Hmmmm Batchain, been looking for an Audiomaster, but no joy yet.....maybe one of these puppies....lol
Old 2nd December 2009
  #222
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steelyfan's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Batchainpuller78 View Post
I think the UA Design is a wee bit earlier than the Peavey mixer Steely heh
True.heh

Man, that mixer looks like it's got the juice.
I bet the e.q. circuit is glorious.



Hey Radio, aren't those both Minimoogs ? One an old school the other with the digital adaptations? If so, do they sound the same?
Old 2nd December 2009
  #223
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drp audio's Avatar
 

Cool stuff there PlayRadioPlay!!

I am unlurking today! This thread is most appropriate for my first post to gearslutz, and timely as I am reviving my Tascam 38 right now.

In the mid 80's I was recording on a Yamaha MT-44 4-track cassette recorder which was only a tease ... So I looked into recording at the local studio which charged $50/hr. Instead I borrowed $3000 from a bank and along with $500 of my own I bought a Tascam 38 recorder, 8 channels of DBX1 noise reduction (free as part of a manufacturer rebate program), a Tascam 308 8 channel/4 sub board, an SM57, two 32 point patch bays, and some cables for it all. I added basic outboard gear as I went along - a Proverb reverb, DBX 163x's (comps) & 463x's (gates) ... $92.10/mo. loan payment vs. $50/hr for studio time seemed like a no-brainer to me. For less than the cost of 2 hours in the studio I could have the basics at my house to use whenever I wanted (24/7/365) and own it after 36 months of payments. When putting together an album I would generally take my tape(s) to the downtown studio for mixing to take advantage of the processing gear, monitoring, room design/treatment, etc.

Then I got into the DAW world and the analog stuff got packed away, and now I am reviving it. I have some thoughts in general based on my experiences so far with the 38.

- "Tails out", am I the only one that is familiar with this term? PRP, I noticed that in your pictures that the full reel of tape is on the left hub. I understand it is best to store tapes "tails out", in other words the end of the tape is what you thread (right to left) through the transport, then you rewind the tape to the beginning and you are ready to roll. Then after the session you fast forward it to the original reel for storage. If I am not mistaken about this then you would need to flip your reel of tape over and put it on the right side hub then put your empty take up reel on the left hub and rewind to the beginning of the tape to start a session. If I remember correctly this was done so that if the recorded tape leaked a faint ghost signal onto the tape pressed against it on the reel, this ghost image would be audible in a delay fashion, after the original signal vs. hearing a faint song start and then hearing it kick in full volume a second or so later when the actual recording starts. Again, I THINK that was the rationale. If I was crazy to look at the backs of reels and waste time forwarding and rewinding all this time then someone please let me know!

- My 38 has been stored for a while and I am doing some maintenance right now to revive it. The pinch roller has turned to gooey rubber and needs to be replaced - $35-40ish directly from Tascam/Teac. While I am ordering parts I will get and replace the rubber capstan belt also as this seems to be a problem with older machines that have wandering speed issues, and mine may very well. Also the fast forward and rewind functions don't work real well on it, I'm not sure what the problem there is yet. You might want to make sure the roller isn't sticky if you haven't felt it already.

- Regarding the need for a 16 channel board, when I was buying this system my rep at Full Compass Systems - Jeff Ryan - did me a huge favor by picking my brain about what I was going to do with it. I assumed I would want/need a 16 channel board (Tascam 216) and he didn't up sell me but talked me into a higher quality 8 channel board for the same price (Tascam 308). I was very happy with the results of that recommendation and the quality of my finished products. I patched the recorder line outs into the board line ins for monitoring and I patched the sub outs to the recorder ins. Since I only had 4 subs I could only record 4 tracks at a time with this conffiguration but that is all I really needed 99% of the time because I was layering all of the instrument tracks myself and programming drums. Each sub had 2 outputs so there was no need to repatch anything, I had all record tracks hardwired, just needed to select proper subs and make sure the correct channels were set to record mode on the 38. Sub 1 fed recorder tracks 1 and/or 5, sub 2 fed tracks 2 & 6, sub 3 fed tracks 3 & 7, and sub 4 fed tracks 4 & 8. This made it quick and easy to monitor playback and working in 4 track mode meant that I could split my board into record and monitor channels so I didn't have to change record settings to listen back. Hope this is clear and provides one perspective anyway.

- Think outside the box! (pun intended) Analog and digital each have their own advantages. Tape sounds nice and DAW's are excellent for editing and mixing in my opinion. You could work totally in analog world, or record onto tape then dump tracks into DAW, or you could take DAW recorded tracks and patch them out though the tape deck like a plug-in except you would be using an actual physical tape recorder for "that tape sound" rather than a simulating plug-in! One cool thing about dumping analog tracks into a DAW or using the machine like a plug-in is that with the 38 you can select the output to be fed from the input (source), the sync (record) head or the repro (playback) head. You can record onto tape and select the repro output and record something to tape then grab the tape recorder version and output it in one pass! As you are recording to tape you are simultaneously dumping the actual tape recorded tracks into your DAW. There will be a slight delay because the record and playback heads are an inch or so apart so you may have to sync the tape recorded tracks with any other tracks already in the DAW. This is all assuming you have a good multichannel DAW interface of course.

P.S. - I still have some 163x's and 463x's, some Alesis microverbs, and an Effectron III delay that work great as part of my vintage collection.

Have fun!!!
Attached Thumbnails
I'm finally doing it. I'm getting rid of my computer.-drpaudio_analog.jpg  
Old 2nd December 2009
  #224
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matskull's Avatar
 

Hey PlayRadioPlay, congrat for the new setup, looks pretty cool.

I did something similar in the last year, not exactly the same but I decided to get a dedicated 24 track recorder (digital though) and a very sweet console, I couldn't be happier.
I use the recorder just like a tape machine, play, rec, rew, fw and that's it.

Eventually if I ever get a nice room I'd like to get a tape machine but I don't have the space right now.

Anyway, this setup really helped me to concentrate on the music itself, no more copy/paste ****, and it sounds great on top of that.

Good luck
Old 2nd December 2009
  #225
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steelyfan's Avatar
 

[QUOTE]
Quote:
Originally Posted by matskull View Post
24 track recorder (digital though) and a very sweet console, I couldn't be happier.
I use the recorder just like a tape machine, play, rec, rew, fw and that's it.

Akai Dps24?
Old 2nd December 2009
  #226
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matskull's Avatar
 

[QUOTE=steelyfan;4845010]
Quote:


Akai Dps24?
Nope I got an Alesis HD24 and the console is Frank Zappa's Midas TR04 console that was in his recording truck, it's pretty nice.
Old 2nd December 2009
  #227
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matskull's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Dirt View Post
+1...

wait... are you another me?

i mean, to a "t"

aaaawwww, my doppelganger!
lol, don't worry.
Old 2nd December 2009
  #228
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PlayRadioPlay's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by greatgreatriver View Post
Groovy studio man!

I recorded a short movie of my friend playing in my studio yesterday. I like to share. Let's all share!

YouTube - yamaha_cm20.wmv
Nice. When he hit a certain dirty note, it looked like it caused an earth quake. Haha.

Quote:
Originally Posted by steelyfan View Post
Hey Radio, aren't those both Minimoogs ? One an old school the other with the digital adaptations? If so, do they sound the same?
The new one is technically called a Moog Voyager. Yes, it's just an updated version (it has a patch bank, which is why I have it for touring), but they don't sound exactly the same. It's kind of like an old API pre vs. a new API pre. Both sound great, but one has the mojo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by drp audio View Post
Cool stuff there PlayRadioPlay!!

I am unlurking today! This thread is most appropriate for my first post to gearslutz, and timely as I am reviving my Tascam 38 right now.

In the mid 80's I was in my early 20's and recording on a Yamaha MT-44 4-track cassette recorder which was only a tease ... So I was looking into recording at the local studio which charged $50/hr. That seemed like a pretty expensive deal to record an entire album there, plus mixing and mastering. So I went to the bank and applied for a personal loan (this was before the whole credit card scam that they do now). I was not very optimistic that they would give a young dreamer a fairly sizable loan but to my amazement they did!

I borrowed $3000 and along with $500 of my own $$ I bought a Tascam 38 recorder (followed by 8 channels of free DBX1 noise reduction as part of a manufacturer rebate program), a Tascam 308 8 channel/4 sub board, an SM57, two 32 point patch bays, and some cables for it all. I added basic outboard gear as I went along - Proverb reverb, DBX 163x's (comps) & 463x's (gates) ... $92.10/mo. loan payment vs. $50/hr for studio time .... seemed like a no-brainer to me. For less than the cost of 2 hours in the studio I could have the basics at my house to use whenever I wanted (24/7/365) and own it after 36 months of payments. When putting together an album I would generally take my tape(s) to the downtown studio for mixing to take advantage of the processing gear, monitoring, room design/treatment, etc.

Then I got into the DAW world and the analog stuff got packed away, and now I am reviving it. I have some thoughts in general based on my experience with the 38 and regarding some comments I've read on this thread.

- "Tails out", am I the only one that is familiar with this term? PlayRadioPlay, I noticed that in your pictures that the full reel of tape is on the left hub. As I understand it it is best to store tapes "tails out", in other words the end of the tape is what you thread through the transport, then you must rewind the tape to the beginning and then you are ready to roll. If I am not mistaken about this then it means that you would need to flip your tape over and put it on the right hub, put your empty takeup reel on the left and then rewind to the beginning of the tape ... I am not 100% sure but I think this was done so that if the tape signal leaked a faint ghost signal onto the tape it is tightly wound against, this ghost image would be audible in a delay fashion after the original signal vs. hearing a faint song start and then hearing it kick in full volume a secvond or so later. Again, I THINK that was the rationale. If I was crazy to look at the backs of reels all this time then I want to know!

- My 38 has been stored for a while and I am doing some maintenance right now to revive it. The pinch roller has turned to gooey rubber and needs to be replaced - $30 ish directly from Tascam/Teac. While I am ordering parts I will get and replace the rubber capstan belt also as this seems to be a problem with older machines that have wandering speed issues. Also the fast forward and rewind functions don't work real well, I'm not sure what the problem there is yet. You might want to make sure the roller isn't sticky if you haven't checked it out already.

- Regarding the "need a 16 channel board" comment, with all due respect, when I was buying this system my rep at Full Compass Systems, Jeff Ryan, did me a huge favor by picking my brain about what I was going to do with it. I assumed I would want/need a 16 channel board (Tascam 216) and he didn't upsell me but talked me into a higher quality 8 channel board for the same price (Tascam 308). I was very happy with the results of that recommendation and the quality of my finished products. I patched the recorder line outs into the board line ins for monitoring and I patched the sub outs to the recorder ins. Since I only had 4 subs I could only record 4 tracks at a time but that is all I really needed 99% of the time because I was layering all of the instrument tracks myself and programming drums on a Roland TR-707 drum machine (Roland The Headless Thompson Drummer!). Each sub had 2 outputs so sub 1 fed recorder tracks 1 & 5, sub 2 fed tracks 2 & 6, sub 3 fed tracks 3 & 7, and sub 4 fed tracks 4 & 8. This made it quick and easy to monitor and working in 4 track mode meant that I could split my board into record and monitor channels so I didn't have to change record channel settings to listen back. Hope this is clear and that it helps.

- Think outside the box! (pun intended) Analog and digital each have their own advantages. Tape sounds nice and DAW's are excellent for editing and mixing in my opinion. You could work totally in analog world, or record onto tape then dump tracks into DAW, or you could take DAW recorded tracks and patch them out though the tape deck like a plug-in except you would be using an actual physical tape recorder for "that tape sound" rather than a simulating plug-in! One cool thing about dumping analog tracks into a DAW or using the machine like a plug-in is that with the 38 you can select the output to be fed from the input (source), the sync (record) head or the repro (playback) head. You can record onto tape and select the repro output and record something to tape then grab the tape recorder version and output it in one pass! As you are recording to tape you are simultaneously dumping the actual tape recorded tracks into your DAW. There will be a slight delay because the record and playback heads are an inch or so apart so you may have to sync the tape recorded tracks with any other tracks already in the DAW. I hope I made this clear ...

P.S. - I still have some 163x's and 463x's, some Alesis microverbs, and an Effectron III delay that work great as part of my vintage collection.

Have fun!!!
Great first post! Very, very helpful. I hope you'll keep us updated in this thread as well. I'm sure there will be a lot of information we can exchange (mainly you helping me, but perhaps I'll have an insight or two ).

Can you explain to me why the tape machine can only record the 4 subs, and not the 8 tracks individually? I figured I could use each channels' direct out to go to tape, is that incorrect? My board has 4 busses as well.

And I totally hear what you are saying about using my tape machine in conjunction with my DAW. That's been my ultimate plan from the beginning. But first, I'm going fully analog. I really hope to record a full album, or at least an EP, with no computer whatsoever (released straight to vinyl ).

I've actually done the "record to tape then dump into PT" thing before, and I remember being slightly underwhelmed by the results (that was my first tape experience). My engineer explained to me that the more dramatic results tape place when one is working exclusively on tape due to things being bounced from tape to more tape to more tape, so the effect builds up. Alongside some old sounding mics, pres, compressors, and an old console, I can imagine the effect being quite drastic. That's what I hope to achieve, in addition to the freedom from my Mac Pro.

Also, any idea where the rack ears for the 38 8 can be bought??
Old 2nd December 2009
  #229
Lives for gear
I really like the track just posted. I did not read through the whole thread, but I'd be surprised if this is not being released through an indie label already or some point soon.
Old 2nd December 2009
  #230
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PlayRadioPlay's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Methlab View Post
I really like the track just posted. I did not read through the whole thread, but I'd be surprised if this is not being released through an indie label already or some point soon.
Nope, no label. It's a self-funded record that I'm releasing completely independently. It'll have limited physical distro, full online distro, and pretty extensive online marketing, all of which I'm setting up myself. I fired my management a few months ago, and it's.... an adventure
Old 2nd December 2009
  #231
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ianbryn11's Avatar
 

good for you....
Old 2nd December 2009
  #232
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drp audio's Avatar
 

Great first post! Very, very helpful. I hope you'll keep us updated in this thread as well. I'm sure there will be a lot of information we can exchange (mainly you helping me, but perhaps I'll have an insight or two).

You already have my friend! I was having no luck finding blank tape, even as savvy as I am with Google {:-). It seems that Ampex 456 is a thing of the past but you pointed me to US Recording, cool!

Can you explain to me why the tape machine can only record the 4 subs, and not the 8 tracks individually? I figured I could use each channels' direct out to go to tape, is that incorrect? My board has 4 busses as well.

You are absolutely correct about that, perhaps I was less than clear. I could indeed record any or all of the 8 tracks individually (key word), but only 4 tracks simultaneously because of how I deliberately wired it. Direct outs from the board went to a patchbay for individual channel access for mixdown, sub outs went to the 38 8 inputs. I hardwired the board and recorder to make it easier (for me) to switch from record to mixdown mode conveniently, it was less-than-accommodating for recording 5-8 tracks at once. This was a past setup for me, I’ll be tying it all into M-Audio Profire 2626’s as soon as I get the 38 going.

And I totally hear what you are saying about using my tape machine in conjunction with my DAW. That's been my ultimate plan from the beginning. But first, I'm going fully analog. I really hope to record a full album, or at least an EP, with no computer whatsoever (released straight to vinyl).

Bold move!! Vinyl is a pain to pirate and a sound you can’t get online!! NICE in conjunction with self distribution! Vinyl only, no mp3 would be brave! “Analog only” works for me.

I've actually done the "record to tape then dump into PT" thing before, and I remember being slightly underwhelmed by the results (that was my first tape experience). My engineer explained to me that the more dramatic results tape place when one is working exclusively on tape due to things being bounced from tape to more tape to more tape, so the effect builds up. Alongside some old sounding mics, pres, compressors, and an old console, I can imagine the effect being quite drastic. That's what I hope to achieve, in addition to the freedom from my Mac Pro.

I honestly have not tried it yet, just thought about the potential and mentioned to some people, a couple of whom went “hmm”. Yes, tape to tape to tape is another thing too. In my experience, maybe yours too, elements just seem to fall together better with tape, especially the low end, hard to explain …

Also, any idea where the rack ears for the 38 8 can be bought??

Yes I do. I was just going through the manual for the 38 this morning (and a nice one it is, you should consider getting one if/when you contact Tascam about the rack ears). You can order from Tascam/Teac directly online I think at TASCAM (go into the Support area), or you can call (323) 727-4840, select the proper menu choices and a nice woman there will answer, locate your part number and take your order with a card! I spoke with her the other day to check on parts availability and I’ll be ordering my pinch roller and capstan belt there in a few days or so. Hopefully the rack ears are still available for you at a reasonable price. The part number for rack ears in my circa late 80’s manual is RM-300.

I‘ll definitely continue to check out this thread and post when I make progress. FYI it may not all happen fast as far as my 38 is concerned ..

Good luck.
Old 3rd December 2009
  #233
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greatgreatriver's Avatar
 

My friend is selling his 38 8 - maybe I should join the love fest! I remember when he bought it, not long ago and we tried it for the first time. I remember how good the acoustic guitar sounded through the tape machine. Instant glue and very organic sounding. Almost like electricity or water streams producing electricity.... It was beautiful. I almost cried.

The feeling I got from the sound was like floating in a river where you can smell the moving water and plants. You know when the air is really humid and the air feels light. Your skin feels fresh and your body just floats away on this happy stream of analog love.


Old 3rd December 2009
  #234
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PlayRadioPlay's Avatar
 

Greatriver, your posts are so full of... zen.

Also, the Series 5 mixer is on its way:


Hurry up UPS!
Old 3rd December 2009
  #235
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greatgreatriver's Avatar
 

Awesome man!
Old 4th December 2009
  #236
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PlayRadioPlay's Avatar
 

I have to run to class, so I'll just throw these up here and discuss when I get home.



Take up reel and other accessories:


Series 5:







Old 4th December 2009
  #237
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memphisindie's Avatar
 

Excessively good noises can come out of that rig.
Old 4th December 2009
  #238
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steelyfan's Avatar
 

WO HOO! Man, that set up is going to be slammin. It looks great too! Of all the combo's to put togther, my main interest is in those 163 compressors with that boards pre's and e.q to tape for drums. I just have to know. I'm aching to hear that mood to tape too.

This is a treasure chest! BRAV F'KN O!
Old 4th December 2009
  #239
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PlayRadioPlay's Avatar
 

Ugh sorry for the huge images.

Quote:
Originally Posted by memphisindie View Post
Excessively good noises can come out of that rig.
I hope!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by steelyfan View Post
WO HOO! Man, that set up is going to be slammin. It looks great too! Of all the combo's to put togther, my main interest is in those 163 compressors with that boards pre's and e.q to tape for drums. I just have to know. I'm aching to hear that mood to tape too.

This is a treasure chest! BRAV F'KN O!
Thanks! I'm going to see if I can get it preliminarily put together tonight. I don't have the RCA patchbay yet, and only a few RCA cords, so I'll have to see if there's anything I can get accomplished other than firing up the tape machine for the first time.

Does anyone know if the Series 5 VU meters are supposed to be lit??? It would be a damn shame for those huge beautiful VUs to not have bulbs behind them!
Old 4th December 2009
  #240
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PlayRadioPlay's Avatar
 

Looks like there's nothing I can do until I get some RCA cables. I'm going to have to go to Guitar Center tomorrow

I did get the tape machine threaded up and running. I'm not sure if it's working correctly, since I've never used a tape machine before, but it seems like it might be kind of sluggish. I won't know until I can hook it up and listen to it, I guess. We'll see.
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