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I'm finally doing it. I'm getting rid of my computer. Recorders, Players & Tape Machines
Old 30th November 2009
  #181
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memphisindie's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by PlayRadioPlay View Post
Never done it before but I'm always up for a challenge *snaps fingers*.
Oh, I can see this may be a sticky mess we'll all be in!

Quote:
Originally Posted by u b k View Post
Refoaming is cake, takes 20 minutes to do it. Get the foam on ebay, it's like $7, and use a good hobby cement like duco or anything clear, semi-gelatinous, and that smells like it'd be a favorite among the huffers.

Gregory Scott - ubk
.
As my kids say: "mother doesn't allow huffers in the house" or maybe they said "chuffers" as in those who would be "chuffed".
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlayRadioPlay View Post
A heavy package just arrived at my door:

The pups are unimpressed:

See anything missing?? A takeup reel! I don't have one. As a matter of fact, I didn't even know what they were called or that I would need one until Googling it 5 minutes ago.

Does that mean I'm completely stuck until I get one? I have two tapes, both Ampex 456, but they both have tape on them.

So should I just order a 1/4" take up reel like this? ATR Magnetics 1/4" x 10.5" Metal Takeup Reel

Any suggestions for what to buy and where? Do I need more than 1?

(If you haven't noticed, this is where all of the stupid questions begin. I'll Google as much as I can before asking you guys, I promise.)
See if there is an audio rental place near you or a place that sells or once sold new tape near you, or call someone who would know that, and see if there's one lying around those joints. Who knows.
I used to have one of those, all the 8track stuff on my site was recorded on one biased for +9 and 911 tape. 456 is more forgiving, 469 is less noisy than 456, all of them sound smoother than digital.
I used to have a dog that looked like the darker one.
Old 30th November 2009
  #182
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steelyfan's Avatar
 

Hey Radio, what's your opinion on that Sherman Filter under the tape machine? Mind tellin' me a little about it? I've been thinking about something like that one.


Steelyfan
Old 30th November 2009
  #183
Gear Guru
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by memphisindie View Post
Oh, I can see this may be a sticky mess we'll all be in!


As my kids say: "mother doesn't allow huffers in the house" or maybe they said "chuffers" as in those who would be "chuffed".

ROTFL....now, those two lines are definitely wrong together memphis!!! heh
Old 30th November 2009
  #184
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PlayRadioPlay's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by memphisindie View Post
See if there is an audio rental place near you or a place that sells or once sold new tape near you, or call someone who would know that, and see if there's one lying around those joints. Who knows.
I used to have one of those, all the 8track stuff on my site was recorded on one biased for +9 and 911 tape. 456 is more forgiving, 469 is less noisy than 456, all of them sound smoother than digital.
I used to have a dog that looked like the darker one.
Just called 4 different studios with tape machines around here. None of them had any 1/2" take up reels. One guy talked with me for a few minutes, nice dude, but said he had just sold off about 20 of them.

Oh well. I'm having two of these sent with 2 day shipping: ATR Magnetics 1/2" x 10.5" Metal Takeup Reel

Anything else I'm going to need??
Old 30th November 2009
  #185
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Jake Dempsey's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by PlayRadioPlay View Post
Anything else I'm going to need??
You probably want to calibrate the machine. Test tapes might need to go on your shopping list.
Old 30th November 2009
  #186
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PlayRadioPlay's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by steelyfan View Post
Hey Radio, what's your opinion on that Sherman Filter under the tape machine? Mind tellin' me a little about it? I've been thinking about something like that one.
They're a lot of fun! They're a lot to wrap your head around until you learn what's going on. Definitely a cool box.

I used it on the beat of this song:


(Video is fan made, ugh. But I figured it's easier to stream this than upload the track)

In that track I ran different parts of the beat through a ton of different fuzz and distortion pedals and then chopped it up. After that, I ran it all through the Sherman Filterbank and kept the nice bits.
Old 30th November 2009
  #187
Quote:
Originally Posted by memphisindie View Post
I gotta say, consider the source:
I think NS10's suck, but I mix on my pair I've had for 20 + years, I started on 4311's and you are correct, they aren't closely matched, but, that's what was happening in those days, there weren't really well matched speakers that one could afford for a monitor and the JBL's weren't cheap either. Every mix I made on them translated exactly in the real world, and I got a chance to revisit the love lately when my last partner brought in a set to serve as out midfield monitors till our Urei's got fixed.
Once again, every mix translated. I was using a crown digital switching amp of 400 watts/channel. Worked perfectly. they weren't even either. You just have to get used to them.
(I have NS10m's, too. Although I've typically used them as secondaries.)

Absolutely agreed that one had to use what one had access to and the 4311's were almost everywhere, very common as references even in studios with fancy soffit-mounted systems.

It only made sense to learn how to mix on them. I just had issues with them, I guess. Maybe it was just that I was wrestling with them at a time when I was learning to mix. Maybe I associate some of my frustration over portability issues with them. I mean... in my mind's eye the response graph above could be multiplied by about 1.5... if you'd told me they were 8 dB out instead of 'only' 5 in spots I would have believed you.

(Am I being unfair by going by their graph instead of their print specs? There must be some reason they claim +/- 3 dB instead of what clearly graphs as -3/+5... yeah?)
Old 30th November 2009
  #188
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chet.d's Avatar
 

[QUOTE=steelyfan;4838139]
Quote:

Don't y o u d a r e............

What mixer are you using?
ha, no Analog mixer.
Apogee- nuendo- d box...

Whatcha thinkin?
Old 1st December 2009
  #189
Gear Guru
 
u b k's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by PlayRadioPlay View Post
Anything else I'm going to need??

1/2" mrl tape for nab alignment 250nw/m.

Han-D-Mag demagnetizer

Bottle 91% rubbing alcohol (NOT 70%)

Q-tips


Do yourself a favor and just get a reel of atr master tape. It absolutely blows away every other tape formula I've ever used, and I've used 201, 203, 456, 900, 911, 468, and gp9. Those were all the o.g. formulas (Scotch, Ampex, Agfa, never used RMGI). The ATR tape has the tone, saturation, hf softness and bass glue of the best formulas, but it's really quiet to boot. YOu can run it clean if you want or overbias and cream the pants off of it and it never folds, it just gets thicker and thicker. 456 is like that too, but it's noisy and the top has a grain where the atr is pure butta.

You got a tone generator? You're gonna need it! Yeah, you can use the computer but trust me, there's nothing like having a box with a knob that just does tones and sweeps.


Gregory Scott - ubk
.
Old 1st December 2009
  #190
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steelyfan's Avatar
 

[QUOTE=chet.d;4838481]
Quote:
Originally Posted by steelyfan View Post

ha, no Analog mixer.
Apogee- nuendo- d box...

Whatcha thinkin?
For $5000 your budget?

Wheww..... I'm not an expert, but if you like older sounds I'd find a old mixer with some mojo, a sound to it and pair it with a tape machine. Someone here can probably recommend a killer tape machine, boards are everywhere. I like my Ramsa WRS4424.......major mojo...sleeper deluxe.

8 buss board to a tape machine seems ideal. $5000 for a computer and pluggs sounds..........non musical? Lose the computer, feel the freedom of refined limitations.
Old 1st December 2009
  #191
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memphisindie's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by PlayRadioPlay View Post
Just called 4 different studios with tape machines around here. None of them had any 1/2" take up reels. One guy talked with me for a few minutes, nice dude, but said he had just sold off about 20 of them.

Oh well. I'm having two of these sent with 2 day shipping: ATR Magnetics 1/2" x 10.5" Metal Takeup Reel

Anything else I'm going to need??
This covers it nicely. Rubber capstan cleaner revitalizer too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by u b k View Post
1/2" mrl tape for nab alignment 250nw/m.

Han-D-Mag demagnetizer

Bottle 91% rubbing alcohol (NOT 70%)

Q-tips


Do yourself a favor and just get a reel of atr master tape. It absolutely blows away every other tape formula I've ever used. The ATR tape has the tone, saturation, hf softness and bass glue of the best formulas, but it's really quiet to boot. YOu can run it clean if you want or overbias and cream the pants off of it and it never folds, it just gets thicker and thicker. 456 is like that too, but it's noisy and the top has a grain where the atr is pure butta.

You got a tone generator? You're gonna need it! Yeah, you can use the computer but trust me, there's nothing like having a box with a knob that just does tones and sweeps.

Gregory Scott - ubk
.
Excellent list.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake Dempsey View Post
You probably want to calibrate the machine. Test tapes might need to go on your shopping list.
If you have to make your own, you can with a computer interface and a tone generator program. That way you can make longer tones to calibrate with, like 3-5 minutes long each, get really picky about it too. Those needles have to be TDC dead on every meter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by theblue1 View Post
(I have NS10m's, too. Although I've typically used them as secondaries.)

Absolutely agreed that one had to use what one had access to and the 4311's were almost everywhere, very common as references even in studios with fancy soffit-mounted systems.

It only made sense to learn how to mix on them. I just had issues with them, I guess. Maybe it was just that I was wrestling with them at a time when I was learning to mix. Maybe I associate some of my frustration over portability issues with them. I mean... in my mind's eye the response graph above could be multiplied by about 1.5... if you'd told me they were 8 dB out instead of 'only' 5 in spots I would have believed you.

(Am I being unfair by going by their graph instead of their print specs? There must be some reason they claim +/- 3 dB instead of what clearly graphs as -3/+5... yeah?)
They were DEFINITely lying!
Old 1st December 2009
  #192
Lives for gear
 
PlayRadioPlay's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by u b k View Post
1/2" mrl tape for nab alignment 250nw/m.

Han-D-Mag demagnetizer

Bottle 91% rubbing alcohol (NOT 70%)

Q-tips


Do yourself a favor and just get a reel of atr master tape. It absolutely blows away every other tape formula I've ever used, and I've used 201, 203, 456, 900, 911, 468, and gp9. Those were all the o.g. formulas (Scotch, Ampex, Agfa, never used RMGI). The ATR tape has the tone, saturation, hf softness and bass glue of the best formulas, but it's really quiet to boot. YOu can run it clean if you want or overbias and cream the pants off of it and it never folds, it just gets thicker and thicker. 456 is like that too, but it's noisy and the top has a grain where the atr is pure butta.

You got a tone generator? You're gonna need it! Yeah, you can use the computer but trust me, there's nothing like having a box with a knob that just does tones and sweeps.


Gregory Scott - ubk
.
Thanks so much for the info Greg.

The site I'm on is saying that machines using +9 dBm operating level tape (ATR can operate at 10) need the 355 nWb/m. Is that correct? They actually don't even sell the 250 nWb/m for 1/2" tape (only 1/4").

Would the NAB 355 nWb/m work? They actually have an option to have it on ATR master tape (I'm also getting two reels of that ).
Old 1st December 2009
  #193
Gear Addict
 
andrewenson's Avatar
 

seems like we have the same problem haha!
make sure you post where you get your take up reel. i've been looking for a good place to purchase one. i havent found any on ebay or craigs :/

Quote:
Originally Posted by PlayRadioPlay View Post

Does that mean I'm completely stuck until I get one? I have two tapes, both Ampex 456, but they both have tape on them.

So should I just order a 1/4" take up reel like this? ATR Magnetics 1/4" x 10.5" Metal Takeup Reel
Old 1st December 2009
  #194
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memphisindie's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewenson View Post
seems like we have the same problem haha!
make sure you post where you get your take up reel. i've been looking for a good place to purchase one. i havent found any on ebay or craigs :/
Like living dangerously?
Take one reel, put it in he box with the "screws side up" on the extra full reel, undo the screws, pull off one side, close the box and sorta squeeze it so the tape doesn't come off the reel in the box when you flip it over, then, flip it over.
CAREFULLY take the other side of the reel out of the box GINGERLY without disturbing the tape, close the lid and tape the edge of the box shut and CAREFULLY put the box somewhere no one will ever find it.
Put the empty reel back together.
Put it on the machine, VOILA!!
You're rollin!

Been there, done that, cut my finger on the editing block.
Old 1st December 2009
  #195
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steelyfan's Avatar
 

You guys are rocking it! I'm diggin the team work to get our friend rollin' here! Bravo.
Old 1st December 2009
  #196
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memphisindie's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by PlayRadioPlay View Post
Thanks so much for the info Greg.

The site I'm on is saying that machines using +9 dBm operating level tape (ATR can operate at 10) need the 355 nWb/m. Is that correct? They actually don't even sell the 250 nWb/m for 1/2" tape (only 1/4").

Would the NAB 355 nWb/m work? They actually have an option to have it on ATR master tape (I'm also getting two reels of that ).
I believe 250nwb/m is correct for 456 at +3,
355nwb/m is +6 and that will work for Agfa 468 & 469,
Ampex 499 & Basf 911, are +9 alignment, I guess you could run it up 3 more db if you get those.
Try it and see if it holds and works, till you get the right tape.
Old 1st December 2009
  #197
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PlayRadioPlay's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewenson View Post
seems like we have the same problem haha!
make sure you post where you get your take up reel. i've been looking for a good place to purchase one. i havent found any on ebay or craigs :/
I just bought 2 here:

Audio Tape Take Up Reels, Flanges, and Hardware

Along with two reels of ATR mastering tape.

Quote:
Originally Posted by steelyfan View Post
You guys are rocking it! I'm diggin the team work to get our friend rollin' here! Bravo.
I sincerely appreciate everyone's help. User carllock sent me original manuals and schematics for the mixer, which arrived today. I've been reading up on it. The schematics are going to come in especially handy if I ever try to mod the console.

Also, user Mike O is sending me the original, matching RCA patchbay that went alongside this thing from back before I was born.

It truly is a team effort and I intend on keeping everyone up to date. Perhaps a little too up to date.
Old 1st December 2009
  #198
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PlayRadioPlay's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by memphisindie View Post
I believe 250nwb/m is correct for 456 at +3,
355nwb/m is +6 and that will work for Agfa 468 & 469,
Ampex 411 & Basf 911, are +9 alignment, I guess you could run it up 3 more db if you get those.
Try it and see if it holds and works, till you get the right tape.
355nwb/m will also work with the ATR mastering tape, correct? That's the tape I just ordered, and hopefully will be using. Haven't ordered the calibration tape yet.
Old 1st December 2009
  #199
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MyDarkStar's Avatar
 

That is going to sound like GOLD!
Old 1st December 2009
  #200
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PlayRadioPlay's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MyDarkStar View Post
That is going to sound like GOLD!
Or perhaps everyone in this thread is part of some forum-wide conspiracy to play an elaborate and horribly mean hoax on me and it's going to end up sounding like a broken cassette deck.
Old 1st December 2009
  #201
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memphisindie's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by PlayRadioPlay View Post
355nwb/m will also work with the ATR mastering tape, correct? That's the tape I just ordered, and hopefully will be using. Haven't ordered the calibration tape yet.
I am unfamiliar with that tape, but, if it is supposed to be biased at +6, or if it will work with a +6 bias, yes.
I don't know if your board has a tone generator on it, BUT if it does, record 10khz, 1khz, 100hz tones to (a different) tape after alignment with the needles on the deck at 0 on the meter, wait 5 minutes, play it back, see if it plays back all channels at 0 on the deck's needles again and if they are still at 0 off the deck on the 10khz and 1khz tones, you're in business. Check the alignment often, use your favorite tape a lot, keep it clean, make sure the rubber on the capstans is still rubber and not a hard slippery black hockey puck or you'll get a lot of flutter and wow. Make sure the rubber doesn't shed off either.
Old 1st December 2009
  #202
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PlayRadioPlay's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by memphisindie View Post
I am unfamiliar with that tape, but, if it is supposed to be biased at +6, or if it will work with a +6 bias, yes.
Just looked around and it can supposedly work at +6, +9, and even up to +10.5. Apparently it accepts a wide range of bias settings, hence the reason many people like it. It's also supposed to be some of the heaviest tape made, which can strain cheaper machines. Hopefully it will work well on the Tascam 38 8.

Source (just a forum): Quantegy 456 - Very Nice! [Archive] - AudioKarma.org Home Audio Stereo Discussion Forums
Old 1st December 2009
  #203
Gear Addict
 

i've got a tascam 48 and am waiting to do the exact same thing. i think it totally makes sense to have a simple 100% analogue set up. hell, i even got my tascam 424 mkII out of storage... if a 4track is good enough for bruce, its good enough for me.

also you might not want "better", but since my dbx 163's were super noisy and weird, i modded them and love the way they turned out. new VCA, new in/out opamp, larger caps for the power supply. pretty easy and fun mod. i could hunt down the links/parts, or pop my open if you're curious. or i could run a loop through it and you could compare it to yours.
-w
Old 1st December 2009
  #204
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PlayRadioPlay's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by against88 View Post
i've got a tascam 48 and am waiting to do the exact same thing. i think it totally makes sense to have a simple 100% analogue set up. hell, i even got my tascam 424 mkII out of storage... if a 4track is good enough for bruce, its good enough for me.

also you might not want "better", but since my dbx 163's were super noisy and weird, i modded them and love the way they turned out. new VCA, new in/out opamp, larger caps for the power supply. pretty easy and fun mod. i could hunt down the links/parts, or pop my open if you're curious. or i could run a loop through it and you could compare it to yours.
-w
Which 163s do you have? The 163x? I'm actually pretty happy with how quiet they are, I think. They're so cheap though that it could never hurt to mess around with one for the hell of it.
Old 1st December 2009
  #205
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlayRadioPlay View Post
Or perhaps everyone in this thread is part of some forum-wide conspiracy to play an elaborate and horribly mean hoax on me and it's going to end up sounding like a broken cassette deck.
I can relate to that.

Hey, I just heard the track. I think you could corner a large chunk of todays audience with that. There's a whole section of the audience that is disengaged right now, non-disney music likers, and with the right effort, your jam could fit that, they'll be the people who like music and pay for theirs.

I'm working with a collaborator to do some acoustic instruments for his electronica jam, which is what I started out doing with the same guy. Found me after 25 years.

Keep up the great work, it sounds fantastic. Love the pics, reminds me of my son. He jumped onto his bed once when I was at a gig and talked crazy for three days.

I see a glorious future for you.
Old 1st December 2009
  #206
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memphisindie's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by PlayRadioPlay View Post
Just looked around and it can supposedly work at +6, +9, and even up to +10.5. Apparently it accepts a wide range of bias settings, hence the reason many people like it. It's also supposed to be some of the heaviest tape made, which can strain cheaper machines. Hopefully it will work well on the Tascam 38 8.

Source (just a forum): Quantegy 456 - Very Nice! [Archive] - AudioKarma.org Home Audio Stereo Discussion Forums
Looks like you're in excellent shape, if it can go to +10, you can hit it really hard, probly get some machine efx too.

I just modded my 163x too, I like it, I didn't do the fl VCA/Opamp replacement, just moved some caps and replaced some, it sounds better, extended bandwidth, but, still does it's "thing" with less noise.
Old 1st December 2009
  #207
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlayRadioPlay View Post
They're a lot of fun! They're a lot to wrap your head around until you learn what's going on. Definitely a cool box.

I used it on the beat of this song:


(Video is fan made, ugh. But I figured it's easier to stream this than upload the track)

In that track I ran different parts of the beat through a ton of different fuzz and distortion pedals and then chopped it up. After that, I ran it all through the Sherman Filterbank and kept the nice bits.
i totally guessed that was a sherman when i first heard it heh

i might be finally getting one this month, im excited

congratulations on the tape machine btw! looks like tons of fun
Old 1st December 2009
  #208
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PlayRadioPlay's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by memphisindie View Post
I can relate to that.

Hey, I just heard the track. I think you could corner a large chunk of todays audience with that. There's a whole section of the audience that is disengaged right now, non-disney music likers, and with the right effort, your jam could fit that, they'll be the people who like music and pay for theirs.

I'm working with a collaborator to do some acoustic instruments for his electronica jam, which is what I started out doing with the same guy. Found me after 25 years.

Keep up the great work, it sounds fantastic. Love the pics, reminds me of my son. He jumped onto his bed once when I was at a gig and talked crazy for three days.

I see a glorious future for you.
Thanks very much. That's encouraging. If you want to hear another song (actually, two) from the new album, there are two new songs here:
Analog Rebellion - Profile - AbsolutePunk.net
One is streaming on that page, the other right below is a link to stream the second one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by memphisindie View Post
Looks like you're in excellent shape, if it can go to +10, you can hit it really hard, probly get some machine efx too.

I just modded my 163x too, I like it, I didn't do the fl VCA/Opamp replacement, just moved some caps and replaced some, it sounds better, extended bandwidth, but, still does it's "thing" with less noise.
Good to hear. I'll look into it. Maybe I'll grab two more and have 2 modded and 2 unmodded.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alehoe View Post
i totally guessed that was a sherman when i first heard it heh

i might be finally getting one this month, im excited

congratulations on the tape machine btw! looks like tons of fun
Yep it definitely has a distinctive sound. There's no other box that does the same thing. It's such a strange, intriguing tool. I probably use it more than I should.
Old 1st December 2009
  #209
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PlayRadioPlay's Avatar
 

I'm sure some of you will appreciate this. I threw together a recall/track list sheet (not sure what they're officially called) in honor of the new tape machine. I wanted it to look like the sheets I always see that appear to have been photo copied into oblivion. (Like this one)

Here it is:


If anyone wants me to throw one together for them, with the appropriate vintage degredation of course, it would be easy since it took me a full 2 seconds. I also found some great retro fonts for the top that I didn't use, so I wouldn't have to recycle.
Old 1st December 2009
  #210
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PlayRadioPlay's Avatar
 

Another package arrived at my door today. A bigger one this time.


Rodney licks his lips as he eyes the packing peanuts.


Oldschool:


HUGE knobs. Shadow Hills totally ripped these off. They're identical:


Here she is next to the tape machine that came yesterday:



I've only been messing with it for about an hour, and I already have to say that I love it. I plan on using it as a means of summing multiple tracks down to one track on the tape machine. Perhaps things as simple as inside/outside drum mics, multiple-miced guitar cabs, toms, etc.

Now that I've heard it and played drums through it (running back and forth between rooms to play the drums and then hear the recorded results is a pain in the ass!), I'm actually thinking it might be a cool front end for ALL of the drums. It overdrives nicely. Real gritty. It has a built in spring reverb as well as an Echo In/Out.

Since it's in Mono, I've figured out that I can use the Echo output (each channel has a reverb send) as a second output. It won't be perfect stereo since the echo output sounds pretty different, but it'll be something I'm experimenting with.

I'll post some samples as soon as I can get a drummer over here to bang on it while I tweak. thumbsup
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