The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
Ribbon Sag - An Update
Old 20th November 2009
  #1
Lives for gear
 
Michael_Joly's Avatar
 

Ribbon Sag - An Update

Over three hundred ribbon mics have crossed my bench and I've kept some notes about the prevalence of ribbon sag in them. When I first started working on Chinese manufactured ribbon mics about five years ago the percentage of mics that arrived on my bench with sagging ribbons was in the neighborhood of 30%. Over time this rose to about 50-60%. But in the past year the percentage of mics that I'm seeing (a combination of new and existing, user-supplied mics) with ribbon sag has risen to almost 80%.

During my recent trip to China to visit several microphone manufacturers I probed them about this issue. I learned an interesting fact and have a better understanding of how it might be that ribbon sag occurs so frequently in these mics - and why it has been increasing lately.

Turns out the aluminum foil leaf used in PRC manufactured mics is rolled, cut and corrugated in Taiwan then shipped to China for installation. It appears the technique of "conditioning" or "pre-stretching" the corrugated ribbon material to eliminate future ribbon sag is not employed.

During the design phase of the ribbon microphone which became known as the Coles 4038, BBC engineers discovered corrugations would:

"...straighten out after a time as a result of the mechanical vibrations and shock to which microphones are subjected in service...the ribbon in the final design was formed with twenty corrugation per inch but these corrugations were pulled nearly flat on fitting; with this arrangement, sagging of the ribbon is prevented... " (Source: BBC Engineering Monograph #4 "The Design of a Ribbon Type Pressure-Gradient Microphone for Broadcast Transmission" )

My standard technique is to duplicate the BBC practice of pre-stretching the ribbon in all mics that cross my bench.

We're now quite a few years into the use of low cost ribbon mics - as these mics age they accumulate a history of shocks and bumps it would be a good idea for folks to either visually inspect their ribbon mics for ribbon sag or perform a test to listen for exaggerated sagging that can cause loss of output, poor frequency response, high distortion and mechanical clanging noise.

Simply listen the your ribbon mic in headphones and slowly rock the mic forward and backward bringing it to a horizontal resting place with the front then back side facing the floor - there should be no sudden clanging or clunking sound. If you hear a sound like a metalic bang the ribbon has severe sag and should be retensioned. A minor amount of sag is normal (perhaps 0.5 mm deflection from the center line in a "long ribbon" mic) and indicates a ribbon that is probably close to ideal tension and thus proper resonant frequency.

While we're all busy chasing "old school sound" with vintage gear and vintage technologies, perhaps its time to practice some old school maintenance engineering as well.
Attached Thumbnails
Ribbon Sag - An Update-205sag.jpg   Ribbon Sag - An Update-rsm3sag.jpg   Ribbon Sag - An Update-rsm4sag.jpg  
Old 20th November 2009
  #2
Lives for gear
 
geareyes's Avatar
Great post Michael thumbsup

Thankyou for the info!

Mike Longhurst
Old 20th November 2009
  #3
Jai guru deva om
 
warhead's Avatar
 

Do you think they're going to change the way they build mics now?

War
Old 20th November 2009
  #4
Lives for gear
 
Michael_Joly's Avatar
 

No. Not until the importers specifically require attention be paid to this detail and teach the assemblers how to pre-stretch, release and set the final tension. I've already discussed this process with the manufacturer who will be building the ribbon mic I've designed and will teach the assemblers myself how to properly install ribbons.

This situation with ribbon sag is similar to the K67-type / flat response circuit situation - an oversight. Just as it appears no one instructed ribbon motor assemblers to exercise the ribbon material, no one conveyed the idea that K67-type capsules were intended to be used with HF de-emphasis. So in the former case that results in thousands of ribbon mics with ribbon sag, and in the later case thousands of too-bright condenser mics due to the mismatch of K67-type capsules and flat resonse circuits.
Old 20th November 2009
  #5
Lives for gear
 
Gretschman's Avatar
 

Buy American

Buy American , I do .

6 - Crowley and Tripp ribbons

1- Royer Ribbon

No issues here .
Old 21st November 2009
  #6
Lives for gear
 
Michael_Joly's Avatar
 

Well, its not really about nationality. Its about attention to detail.

What we have experienced to date as "cheap Chinese products" is really just a manefestation of lowest-cost pricing pressure exerted by Western buyers. If a Western buyer went to one of the high quality Chinese mic factories I visited in October and wanted to buy an exact re-creation of a U 47 or KM 84 any number of these Chinese factories could do it. But that is not what they are being asked to do.

Independently of US and Euro buyers, Chinese manufacturers are very rapidly moving beyond being a provider of lowest-cost labor. They too want to move up the value-added stream as designers and providers of branded products. This is the same value-add progression Japanese manufacturers undertook in the 1960 and 1970's with "transistor radios" and cassette tape products - most significantly the Sony Walkman.
Old 21st November 2009
  #7
Lives for gear
 
Gretschman's Avatar
 

Cheap inferior junk products

Cheap , inferior , junk products by China have flooded the market places everywhere
and ruined most of the business for those producers of quality products .

So NOW they want to imply that junk reproductions of others designs is NOT
their business model !! Give me a break !!!

I have no sympathy for them , or the customers they serve .
Old 21st November 2009
  #8
Lives for gear
 
Michael_Joly's Avatar
 

Re: Technological capabilities of Chinese firms...

Terry Gross, host of NPR's "Fresh Air" interviewed Orville Schell the former dean of the graduate school of journalism at the University of California, Berkeley, and who now directs the Center on U.S.-China Relations at the Asia Society in New York. He's been going to China since 1975 and has written nine books about China. Here are a few quotes from the interview transcript...

"You know, I heard a statistic the other day that a couple years ago they had 700 miles of high-speed rail, and now they have 7,000 miles... that's a staggering figure. The United States really doesn't have one mile.

It raises a question that is sort of frightening to contemplate for an American, and that's this: Does the Chinese system, this sort of autocratic form of capitalism, deliver better than democracy?

And as an ardent democrat, I contemplate the answer to that question with some trepidation, because I think, you know, we feel in America, and in fact I think it's more than a feeling, that in many ways our government is paralyzed, paralyzed by a lack of money, paralyzed in Congress, paralyzed by sort of vicious partisan politics, whereas China is able not only to gather information well but to form policy quickly and then, most importantly, to effect it. And you feel that everywhere you look in this country now, that they are on top of things, they're able to do things swiftly to meet the very high-speed demands of the situation.

I went to a green-tech, U.S.-China green-tech summit for the last two days, and you hear these Chinese entrepreneurs. Every one of them is 30 or 40 years old. Electric car companies, you know, high-speed rail, all sorts of interesting new technologies, and these people are cooking."
(end quote)

I was in China for the first in 20 years last month. I was amazed. They have created an urban middle class in less than a generation - something that took the US probably a 100 years to do.

You don't think they could make world class microphones if asked to do?
Old 21st November 2009
  #9
Lives for gear
 

Are you still recommending alcohol as a temporary adhesive to hold the ribbon in place while you are locking it down? Seemed like an elegant solution to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael_Joly View Post
Loosen one clamp only and lift the top half off the ribbon. Be careful, the ribbon may be stuck to it. Cut the end off a couple of wooden toothpicks, wet them with alcohol and use them to lift the ribbon free of the clamp surface. Use another drop of alcohol and you should be able to move the ribbon around and tension it so that there is just the tiniest (0.5 mm) sag in the middle when the mic is horizontal.

Pick the motor up off the work surface a few inches, blow onto the surface and watch the ribbon oscillate from the reflected air stream. You should see a visible oscillation. If you don't the ribbon is too tight. If there is more than 0.5mm sag in the middle it is too loose.
Old 21st November 2009
  #10
Lives for gear
 
videoteque's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gretschman View Post
Cheap, inferior , junk products by China have flooded the market places everywhere and ruined most of the business for those producers of quality products.
It has not been a chinese idea to make shitty products. It has been an white-anglo-saxon men idea to go there and ask them to make mics at $5 a piece, t-shirts at $1, sneakers at $2, etc.

Blame you own country, not China!tutt
Old 21st November 2009
  #11
Lives for gear
 
Sigma's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by videoteque View Post
It has not been a chinese idea to make shitty products. It has been an white-anglo-saxon men idea to go there and ask them to make mics at $5 a piece, t-shirts at $1, sneakers at $2, etc.

Blame you own country, not China!tutt
what he saidthumbsup

i just got my ribbon from clarence kane...he makes his own..with the wide tolerances in RCA mikes he tried 3 or 4 until 1 fit the mounts correctly
Old 21st November 2009
  #12
Lives for gear
 
Michael_Joly's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by spicemix View Post
Are you still recommending alcohol as a temporary adhesive to hold the ribbon in place while you are locking it down? Seemed like an elegant solution to me.
Yes. And thanks for finding my earlier post describing a technique to work with ribbons.
Old 21st November 2009
  #13
Lives for gear
 
musicbydesign's Avatar
 

Question for Micheal Joly about ribbon sag. Is the Cascade
Gomez (Michael Joly Edition) mic correctly set up to avoid sag?
Just Curious as I was considering this mic as my first ribbon.

To the sub topic: China sells products worldwide so why blame the US
as the sole exploiter. I don't believe for a second that were the only one
to blame!!

Also China makes some very nice products HIVI is a Company
in China that makes hi-end speakers. I've got 3 pair.
This is only one example but my favorite.


Daniel
Old 21st November 2009
  #14
Lives for gear
 
Gretschman's Avatar
 

You don't think they could make world class microphones if asked to do?[/QUOTE]


You seem to have a difficult time separating Fact from opinion .

It is a Fact that Chinese junk products have flooded the worlds market places .
Those products are inferior in quality , as YOU , yourself have pointed out and
cost a lot less than the German , Japanese or American microphones
in the marketplace.

Sam Ash , GC , and every audio distributor around sells them .

Fact :

Because China has flooded the worlds market places with this inferior junk ,
the companies who manufacture quality products have had to go out of business
relocate overseas or settle for a reduced market share .

The Governments of Non Communist countries do not allow the inhumane working
conditions , wages , or exposer to dangerous chemicals and machinery that the Chinese do . Ever hear of OSHA ?? I know our workers have here in the USA .

Europe and the USA have rules , regulations and high taxes which are factors
the Chinese do not have to include in their production costs .

No matter how much lipstick you put on this Pig , it's still a Pig !
Old 21st November 2009
  #15
Lives for gear
 
pkautzsch's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gretschman View Post
Quote:
You don't think they could make world class microphones if asked to do?
It is a Fact that Chinese junk products have flooded the worlds market places .
*snip*
Sam Ash , GC , and every audio distributor around sells them .
Why do they sell them when they are junk? (and yes, they ARE junk)
You can't blame on China that "Western" kids buy the stuff.

Quote:
Because China has flooded the worlds market places with this inferior junk ,the companies who manufacture quality products have had to go out of business
relocate overseas or settle for a reduced market share .
Absolutely true.
But again: would they make the cheap stuff if nobody bought it?

Quote:
Europe and the USA have rules , regulations and high taxes which are factors the Chinese do not have to include in their production costs .
Exactly. That's why Chinese economy is growing so fast, and Western shareholders get lots of money.

Quote:
No matter how much lipstick you put on this Pig , it's still a Pig !
Yes, and that's what the kids buying the stuff need to learn. This doesn't just apply to mics, and not only to Chinese products. We all know the type of client who wants to pay $20 per studio day, engineer included - and apparently they find guys with "studios" who will work for that little.
What I want to say is: the "get everything for (nearly) free" mentality is growing. Lots of people have been buying houses for money they didn't have and never could earn. Same thing.
Old 21st November 2009
  #16
Lives for gear
 
timtoonz's Avatar
Before this completely turns into another "anti China" diatribe thread...

Can I ask Michael if he could post a side by side "good/bad" picture of ribbon mics with and without sag? I think I see the sag in the pictures posted above, but it'd be great to see a comparison with how a properly tensioned ribbon should look.

Thanks!

(And for what it's worth, I LOVE my cheap chinese ribbons... Not quite as much as my Coles 4038. But they definitely come in very handy.)
Old 21st November 2009
  #17
Lives for gear
 
PMoshay's Avatar
 

A very interesting thread until world politics and American Consumer behavior started to get into the discussion.

Nobody's comments in a online forum are gonna do diddly squat.
If you wanna change the world, stop talking and start doing it.
People, Please don't kill this thread with personal arguments (especially world politics), there is a different forum for that stuff.

Thank You Michael for posting this informative stuff.

Michael, is there any tips you can give us for ribbon storage or care?
Any way for owners to easily re-tension a sagging ribbon without ruining it?

Thanks!
Old 21st November 2009
  #18
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by videoteque View Post
It has not been a chinese idea to make shitty products. It has been an white-anglo-saxon men idea to go there and ask them to make mics at $5 a piece, t-shirts at $1, sneakers at $2, etc.

Blame you own country, not China!tutt
How do you know it was white anglo-saxon men? It could have been old jewish women, or even the knights who say "ecky-ecky-ecky-ecky-pikang-zoop-bouing-goodem-zoo-owli-z-hiv".
Why do white-anglo-saxon men get the blame for everything bad?
Old 21st November 2009
  #19
Lives for gear
 

Because they were the first to gain wealth in the western world.
We jews were the second :P
Old 21st November 2009
  #20
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomer1 View Post
Because they were the first to gain wealth in the western world.
We jews were the second :P
What about Ancient Greece? I noticed that the anti-anglo, Xavier Plagaro Caligula Biggus Dickus III was from Rome.
Old 21st November 2009
  #21
Here for the gear
 

<quote>You seem to have a difficult time separating Fact from opinion .

It is a Fact that Chinese junk products have flooded the worlds market places .
Those products are inferior in quality , as YOU , yourself have pointed out and
cost a lot less than the German , Japanese or American microphones
in the marketplace. </quote>

we didnt ask china to design these mics...theyre job is to simply follow the given specs and recreate at the lowest possible price they can.
the over saturation of "chinese junk" is heavily reliant on companies willing to put there name on these "c rate" products to save a buck....

i think it would be a shame to define the chinese work force' ability based on what US and Chinese companies are asking them to do....looking at their social structures and of coarse their history, its beyond obvious that if asked to make or recreate a world class mic, they could rise to the challenge....
Old 21st November 2009
  #22
Lives for gear
 
Gretschman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by fjellstua View Post
<quote>You seem to have a difficult time separating Fact from opinion .

It is a Fact that Chinese junk products have flooded the worlds market places .
Those products are inferior in quality , as YOU , yourself have pointed out and
cost a lot less than the German , Japanese or American microphones
in the marketplace. </quote>

we didnt ask china to design these mics...theyre job is to simply follow the given specs and recreate at the lowest possible price they can.
the over saturation of "chinese junk" is heavily reliant on companies willing to put there name on these "c rate" products to save a buck....

i think it would be a shame to define the chinese work force' ability based on what US and Chinese companies are asking them to do....looking at their social structures and of coarse their history, its beyond obvious that if asked to make or recreate a world class mic, they could rise to the challenge....

And yet , they don't !

There has always been a market for quality products . No one asked Gefell , Horsch ,
Merek , Manley and the others to build quality mic's !! They just do it !!
Old 21st November 2009
  #23
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
Guys, I don't know what your'e all arguing about. To get INTO the marketplace, the only leverage a company has is PRICE.

They don't have any clients, they don't have any track record, they don't have any resources. All they have is the ability (hopefully - in their minds at least) to undercut the competition.

It's always been this way. If you can't see it, just look at the STUDIO business. Newcomers undercut the marketprice to try to score their share. And in the process, they destroy the market for themselves and everyone else.

Gradually, things settle out, and those with the most tenacity emerge as the players.

It will be no different with China. They wanted in, the world wanted cheap, and they did it. What happened? Money flowed their direction. Now they pretty much OWN the world. Eventually they will start making quality products, and because the rest of the world was so enamored with getting more, MORE, MORE, they will own the market and the price and quality will go up.
Old 21st November 2009
  #24
Gear Addict
 
beanface's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gretschman View Post
Cheap , inferior , junk products by China have flooded the market places everywhere
and ruined most of the business for those producers of quality products .

So NOW they want to imply that junk reproductions of others designs is NOT
their business model !! Give me a break !!!

I have no sympathy for them , or the customers they serve .

Well maybe some people don't have the cash to buy a Royer et al. Dont be so arrogant.
Old 21st November 2009
  #25
Lives for gear
 
Michael_Joly's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by musicbydesign View Post
Question for Micheal Joly about ribbon sag. Is the Cascade
Gomez (Michael Joly Edition) mic correctly set up to avoid sag?...
The Gomez was introduced before I learned of the Taiwanese manufacturer's and Chinese assemblers ribbon handling practices - specifically lack of "pre-stretching" prior to tensioning and clamping. As a result of the knowledge gained during my recent trip to China I have requested Cascade Microphones to follow the practice I've outlined above.

Quote:
Originally Posted by timtoonz View Post
...Can I ask Michael if he could post a side by side "good/bad" picture of ribbon mics with and without sag? I think I see the sag in the pictures posted above, but it'd be great to see a comparison with how a properly tensioned ribbon should look...
I don't believe I've ever shot a picture of properly tensioned ribbon. But if you click on the three images I posted above you will see the center of each ribbon has sagged almost completely out of the magnet gap. As was mentioned above, a "long ribbon" mic will have about 0.5mm of downward sag when the motor is held horizontally. The mics in the pictures above have severe sag - 5 mm or more.

Some other place on the web I described in detail two procedures for setting the resonant frequency fairly accurately - one visual and one with the aid of spectral analysis software. The visual method involves gently "puffing" the ribbon to make sure its oscillation can be seen. If the tension is too tight the oscillation of the ribbon will be above the frequency at which our eyes can discern movement (about 50Hz or so). So these two limits - 0.5mm sag on the one hand and edge-of-discernable-oscillation on the other define a range that is just about right for a long ribbon. Spectral analysis or impedance measurement is more accurate but requires special equipment. The short type of Chinese ribbon motor should have very slightly tighter tension - almost no discernable sag but again with some discernable visual oscillation when puffed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PMoshay View Post
... Michael, is there any tips you can give us for ribbon storage or care? Any way for owners to easily re-tension a sagging ribbon without ruining it?...
If the ribbon material is pre-stretched and installed properly no special precautions need be taken for storage. I've shipped ribbon mics all around the globe - I'm sure they've been subjected to the shocks and jarring the authors of the BBC paper noted yet they have arived ribbon tension maintained. Just don't blow into them, put them in front of bass cab ports or, in the case of a ribbon mic that has been modified with a single layer headbaske and all puff screening removed - don't walk them around the studio or swing them on a boom with a plastic bag overthem. Its a good idea to keep a plastic bag on ribbon mics right up until the session starts in my opinion.

Regarding DIY re-tensioning - everything you need to know is above.
Old 21st November 2009
  #26
Lives for gear
 
EzMotownB's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael_Joly View Post
Re: Technological capabilities of Chinese firms...

Terry Gross, host of NPR's "Fresh Air" interviewed Orville Schell the former dean of the graduate school of journalism at the University of California, Berkeley, and who now directs the Center on U.S.-China Relations at the Asia Society in New York. He's been going to China since 1975 and has written nine books about China. Here are a few quotes from the interview transcript...

"You know, I heard a statistic the other day that a couple years ago they had 700 miles of high-speed rail, and now they have 7,000 miles... that's a staggering figure. The United States really doesn't have one mile.

It raises a question that is sort of frightening to contemplate for an American, and that's this: Does the Chinese system, this sort of autocratic form of capitalism, deliver better than democracy?

And as an ardent democrat, I contemplate the answer to that question with some trepidation, because I think, you know, we feel in America, and in fact I think it's more than a feeling, that in many ways our government is paralyzed, paralyzed by a lack of money, paralyzed in Congress, paralyzed by sort of vicious partisan politics, whereas China is able not only to gather information well but to form policy quickly and then, most importantly, to effect it. And you feel that everywhere you look in this country now, that they are on top of things, they're able to do things swiftly to meet the very high-speed demands of the situation.

I went to a green-tech, U.S.-China green-tech summit for the last two days, and you hear these Chinese entrepreneurs. Every one of them is 30 or 40 years old. Electric car companies, you know, high-speed rail, all sorts of interesting new technologies, and these people are cooking."
(end quote)

I was in China for the first in 20 years last month. I was amazed. They have created an urban middle class in less than a generation - something that took the US probably a 100 years to do.

You don't think they could make world class microphones if asked to do?
I absolutely think they could. But then you would lose the cost advantage, or most of it. As that middle class grows in both size and influence, you'll see rising wages, more attention to human rights and environmental issues, and a whole host of other things that currently allow China to produce goods so cheaply.

But they certainly have the technical skill to produce products of excellent quality.
Old 21st November 2009
  #27
Lives for gear
 
EzMotownB's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by beanface View Post
Well maybe some people don't have the cash to buy a Royer et al. Dont be so arrogant.
I didn't see that comment as arrogance -- more like just telling it like it is. The old adage is true: you do get what you pay for. Save your money and buy quality equipment from the get-go -- you'll be much happier, IMHO.
Old 21st November 2009
  #28
Gear Addict
 
beanface's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by EzMotownB View Post
I didn't see that comment as arrogance -- more like just telling it like it is. The old adage is true: you do get what you pay for. Save your money and buy quality equipment from the get-go -- you'll be much happier, IMHO.
Yeah you do get what you pay for. I have spent alot of cash on quality equiptment - for a reason, don't get me wrong I love it. But this guy just came across as a prick, not to mention the fact it wasn't really relevant to the OP. It was just a chance to say 'I've got one up on you, nah nah' My point still stands, some people cant afford or justify buying hi-end gear. People like Michael, have made attaining a better sound possible for many people, who otherwise could not afford to do so.

"Buy American, I do" - Well why not, "Buy British / German / Austrian" etc.

He is telling people to do as he does. Its arrogant.
Old 21st November 2009
  #29
Lives for gear
 
Gretschman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by beanface View Post
Yeah you do get what you pay for. I have spent alot of cash on quality equiptment - for a reason, don't get me wrong I love it. But this guy just came across as a prick, not to mention the fact it wasn't really relevant to the OP. It was just a chance to say 'I've got one up on you, nah nah' My point still stands, some people cant afford or justify buying hi-end gear. People like Michael, have made attaining a better sound possible for many people, who otherwise could not afford to do so.

"Buy American, I do" - Well why not, "Buy British / German / Austrian" etc.

He is telling people to do as he does. Its arrogant.
That's your opinion !

I am proud to support those manufacturers here in the USA by purchasing their high quality products . You know , where you can dial the guys phone number and HE answers the phone , stands behind what you buy from him . Has a tech department
that speaks english and is helpful .

Yes , you can chose to save money buying Chinese microphones , but can you
get the guy on the phone ? or speak chinese ?
Can you get parts for it ? If so , how long does it take ?

It is not arrogant to buy quality products or to support those who make them .

I refuse to buy an inferior product from a Communist country and put those who truly deserve my business out of a job just to save money . I'll just save up until I get the cash to buy what I want .
Old 21st November 2009
  #30
Lives for gear
 

Michael,

I have a pair of Cascade VinJets that are brown and gold and say "Michael Joly Edition" on them. Cascade said that they were a model that wasn't officially released. Anyway, would it be possible to have the ribbons looked at and replaced with ones that are propoerly tensioned? What might that cost?

Thanks!

Kirt Shearer

Last edited by kbshearer; 21st November 2009 at 11:47 PM.. Reason: typo
πŸ“ Reply
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
πŸ–¨οΈ Show Printable Version
βœ‰οΈ Email this Page
πŸ” Search thread
♾️ Similar Threads
πŸŽ™οΈ View mentioned gear