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drum tuning toms, great result - want to share
Old 19th November 2009
  #1
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Flying_Dutchman's Avatar
 

drum tuning toms, great result - want to share

ok, i bought this used yamaha recording custon maple set from the 90s and wanted to tune the toms
well, it was the first time for me that i really cared about this problem, sad but true
i got evans ec2 heads for beater and watched the video at the evans page
genious! i was able to do it very quick
1. i tuned the head to it´s fullest sound (resonating)
2. i took a piano vsti an recognized the tone
3. i pitched the drum to the tone
4. i made small adjustments to get the skin be in tune at all points
5. i tuned the down side like this

the kit sounds really good, really really good
maybe this isn´t new to you all, but i just wanted to share, maybe it will help you
Old 19th November 2009
  #2
Gear Addict
 
jsbeeth's Avatar
 

Yeah man, proper tuning makes a world of difference. I'd also recommend Bob Gatzen's videos online. Of course, it doesn't hurt that you've got yourself arguably THE classic recording kit of all time
Old 19th November 2009
  #3
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Flying_Dutchman's Avatar
 

is it a classic?
great!
it was very very cheap, 250
4 toms, bd, hardware (hh stand, snare stand, 2 cymbal stands)
i think it´s great :-)
Old 19th November 2009
  #4
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deve's Avatar
 

Now try the same thing with remo heads.
Old 19th November 2009
  #5
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by deve View Post
Now try the same thing with remo heads.

Ha! +1 on the Remos...

-Jeff Braun
Old 19th November 2009
  #6
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mistervenable's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Braun View Post
Ha! +1 on the Remos...

-Jeff Braun
Tomato, potato. I personally dig the Evans heads. As long as it sounds good, rock it!
Old 19th November 2009
  #7
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jsbeeth's Avatar
 

$250??? Are you f'ing kidding me? Well then, yes, ya done good, to say the VERY least. That's one of the very best kits around. How on earth did you swing that?

And another +1 for remo heads. I feel Evans have too much of their own sound, which is great if your kit is crap, but remos seem to let the sound of the shell come through a bit more...
Old 19th November 2009
  #8
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AndyZippy's Avatar
Wow, bargain! I thought i'd done well to get my early (black insides on shells too) Yamaha Recording Custom, with 20" kick, 10" & 12" & 14" toms, and original matching 14x7" snare + all mounts for £500! Good on ya. Can't recommend Remo Pinstripes enough for this kit, at least that's what i personally like on it. Good tuning tip though, never tried it like that but will give anything a go
Old 19th November 2009
  #9
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tapehiss's Avatar
evans g1's and g2's and resonant heads (coated) are far superior to anything remo!!!!!!!!!

although their ambassadors are pretty nice.........

remo's wear out after a day of heavy playing

where as the evans begin to sound great after a month of heavy playing and last for up to several years!!!!!!!

but to each his own!
Old 19th November 2009
  #10
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tapehiss's Avatar
more tuning

another way to tune:

1) take your evans head and tune it up really tight, but dont break anything

2) let it sit for an hour tight (top and bottom), but do to the typically thin bottom head on toms and snares, don't tighten them up nearly as tight, but still tighter than you would typically tune it

this is for breaking in the heads so that they don't go out of tune as quick from temperature change and playing (trust me, a good head can get tight as **** and support a heavy dude standing on the drum without hurting it)

3) now loosen it evenly, don't de-tune (or tune up) one lug at a time because this will cause uneven stretching in the head which will result in a lesser quality tone from your drum.

4) now after completely loosening the drum, begin tuning up each lug two turns at a time until it feels about one or two turns away from proper sound.

5) now put your finger in the middle of the head to dampen the resonance and tap your stick towards the edge of the head next to each tuning lug.

this will allow you to hear if the sound is higher or lower than the other lugs

6) to make it sound its best, find the nicest tone and make sure all the lugs are tuned to the same note.


i find this way more natural than tuning to a specific key
(unless you used pre-tuned shells like DW's which often have a note stamped on the inside of the shell and that is the note you should tune to, but it is still good to make sure each lug contains the same amount of tension.

one more thing to keep in mind, if your drums sit for too long with an uneven tension, your shell will eventually stretch over the years and your drum will never be able to tune properly again..

(yet, some of my favorite vintage drums have their tune do to the years of sitting out of tune, and offer a unique tone, but you still can't tune it to evenly)
Old 19th November 2009
  #11
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Infernal Device's Avatar
 

Great post! Tuning drums is the one thing that can trump mics and preamps. Gimme a well tuned kit played properly, and I could open the door and throw a 57 on the floor and hit record.

About 99% of drummers simply cannot tune. They crank the lugs a little up and down until they think they have spent enough time on that drum.

I use a Peterson strobe tuner. New Evans EC2 heads, I finger-tighten the lugs. Next is just tiny little even turns (like less than a quarter turn) on each lug until it feels like the drum is throwing off enough energy to rattle a snare two rooms away. Then I see the closest note on the tuner and grab for it.

I also found that buying a bunch of drum keys (that are all the same) and having a key on every lug makes it easier. That way you can just grab a lug and twist a little. Sounds silly but it saves a lot of time.

My new thing, instead of drum gum or moon gel (I hate rigging anything and it kills the tone at that lug) is add three cotton balls inside the toms (two inside the rack tom). It is more weight than you think and tames it down GREAT!
Old 19th November 2009
  #12
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bigbone's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tapehiss View Post
evans g1's and g2's and resonant heads (coated) are far superior to anything remo!!!!!!!!!

although their ambassadors are pretty nice.........

remo's wear out after a day of heavy playing

where as the evans begin to sound great after a month of heavy playing and last for up to several years!!!!!!!

but to each his own!
It's a personal taste, but your quote as REMO wear out is not true.... the coating will last as the same as evans drumhead
Old 19th November 2009
  #13
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KEYBEEETSSS's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying_Dutchman View Post
is it a classic?
great!
it was very very cheap, 250
4 toms, bd, hardware (hh stand, snare stand, 2 cymbal stands)
i think it´s great :-)
WOWWW!!! I think THIS statement was made for uheh
Old 19th November 2009
  #14
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steelyfan's Avatar
 

Congrat's on a killer kit! Those are classic .

I tune my toms and kick to the bass. Only 2 toms for me, I'll have the bass player something, and find a tom sound that sounds good with the bass without cancelling out the two. Kick drum is a tighter sound for me, so no problems there. In general for toms though, I go for that King Kong sound, like the movie.

dohm Duhm dohm Duhm .... dohm Duhm.


thumbsup

Cheers,
steely
Old 19th November 2009
  #15
Jai guru deva om
 
warhead's Avatar
 

That is a silly deal on those drums, congrats on that.

I find tuning low and keeping the sizes at least 2" apart, and also the note separation 3 to 5 keys apart to work well. Also, I try to stick to the "D" scale which is very compatible with most pop / rock tunes.

When toms are hit together, they should ring out nicely like a chord.

War
Old 19th November 2009
  #16
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steelyfan's Avatar
 

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by warhead View Post
When toms are hit together, they should ring out nicely like a chord.

War
Old 19th November 2009
  #17
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Avening's Avatar
 

The unfortunate thing about most drummers (as someone else already stated), 90% of them can't tune to save their life. Picked up one of these things to use in a pinch ... It rules!!!

Information

For the engineer that doesn't have the time to coach the drummer on proper tuning, and is on time constraints, this thing is the cat's ass. You can have your assistant record tension settings, and recall them later on as well. Pretty nifty little piece


BTW ... GREAT score on the Yamaha kit!
Old 19th November 2009
  #18
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tapehiss View Post
evans g1's and g2's and resonant heads (coated) are far superior to anything remo!!!!!!!!!

although their ambassadors are pretty nice.........

remo's wear out after a day of heavy playing

where as the evans begin to sound great after a month of heavy playing and last for up to several years!!!!!!!

but to each his own!
Remo are definitely less consistent in manufacturing than evans (you have to hand pick them) but that said and as an ex evans endorsee - who uses vic firth rock (extended 2B w/- round tip) sticks and has swung them like baseball bats for over 21 years - this is purest BS - in my experience - which on this subject is extensive - remo last longer, take more punishment and my opinion they sound better.

yr statement about evans just does not stack up to my reality at all.
Old 19th November 2009
  #19
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JulianFernandez's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying_Dutchman View Post
is it a classic?
great!
it was very very cheap, 250
4 toms, bd, hardware (hh stand, snare stand, 2 cymbal stands)
i think it´s great :-)
Recording Custom are (and were) BIRCH shells, not maple...
If you got an old 9000 kit for 250 bucks, then you got a great deal!
Old 19th November 2009
  #20
Gear Guru
 

next time you have your heads off, take the shell and hang it by a finger or a string and hit the side of the shell with a mallet

record the sound

put the new heads on, loop the recording of the shell, and tune to that
Old 20th November 2009
  #21
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Flying_Dutchman's Avatar
 

Thanks for all great ideas!

I made a mistake, it´s a yamaha stage custom maple. 8,10,12,14 toms, 20bass drum
i tuned the toms to intervals, it´s great i think
i´d like to try to bring the pitch to the bands song tuning
i play in a metal band and our main scale i C- harmonic minor 5
my drummer was very happy about my yamaha tuning and wants to get new heads and i shall tune it, i think i´ll try to get the drums in this scale, if the drums can get this tones and sound good.
i will try out the tuning methods, the recording the shells without heads and the cotton balls
i´m no expert on heads, a pro drummer i know said that evans last 4 month while the remos loose tone after one month, he´s hitting the drums quite hard (metal/rock), so ibought the evans
i do recordings since some years and most drummers said they can tune the drums, but i think the most of them don´t really know what they do
i also do FOH and live recordings at a metal club and i use this kit now for backline, i already got 4 rents in december, so i got the money back, great!
i know a guy from our town that has a recording custom in his garage.
i think ill call him.
It´s great fun to tune drums, although i don´t play drums (bad, just for fun sometimes, can´t get my brain to do so many things together) i should have tried to tune drums earlier!
Thanks!
Old 20th November 2009
  #22
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tapehiss's Avatar
thats still a good kit man!!!!!!!!!

i feel that maple records a little better for my taste.........
however, the differences are usually only apparent to drummers and engineers.


i have a vintage slingerland kit, a vintage ludwig, and they sound great..

but i've recently been checking out the ayotte with wood hoops on the toms and they sound fantastic,,, a bit different from vintage...

however, i find that there is more of a difference between vintage cymbals than new vs. old drums.




as far as heads, sure remo is nice and maybe 'better'...... they just climaxed their designs in the 80's and haven't changed much since, and i find that to be part of their sound....

i just prefer the evans for their quality and more innovative designs, however, they have been lately coming up with gimmicky heads, but as far as the g1 and 2's i don't think it gets much better........

maybe aquarian heads are the best
Old 20th November 2009
  #23
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by deve View Post
Now try the same thing with remo heads.
thumbsupthumbsupthumbsupthumbsupthumbsupthumbsupthumbsupthumbsup
Old 20th November 2009
  #24
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tapehiss View Post
thats still a good kit man!!!!!!!!!





as far as heads, sure remo is nice and maybe 'better'...... they just climaxed their designs in the 80's and haven't changed much since, and i find that to be part of their sound....
Kind of like...drums
Old 20th November 2009
  #25
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JulianFernandez's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying_Dutchman View Post
I know a guy from our town that has a recording custom in his garage.
i think ill call him
S Customs are great, but the RC9000 is in other league... Guys like Gadd, Colaiuta, Weckl, Erskine and even Beauford used that kit to record thousands of records...
Old 20th November 2009
  #26
Here for the gear
 

I have been trying to find the best way to tune drums for close to 15 years now. Some tips that have helped me:

1. Put a mic close to the lug you are trying to tune, say one to two inches away, wear headphones, crank it up. It really helps hear the bad waves. It is the equivalent of putting your ear right next to the drum. Works great when you are trying to pitch individual lugs.

Side Note: I like to make guitarists put their ears right up to the cabinet when they suck at getting tone. Most guitarists think the back of their knees is where you hear from.

2. Tighten lugs until there are no wrinkles,just before the drum resonates. You should hear no note at this point. Hit the middle of the drum while you make quarter turns on each drum, opposite lugs of course, bring the drum into tune slowly.

3. Always start with the lowest tom first. Tune in perfect fourths (think here comes the bride for reference pitch). There is nothing worse than starting with the highest tom first and then realizing you started the whole kit too low and now your two lowest toms sound the same.

4. Try not to tune your snare to the same pitch as some of your higher toms, you will know it because your snares will be really loud when you hit that drum.

5. Make sure to muffle the opposite head that you aren't tuning. For example, put the drum on a cloth or blanket to hear only the head you are tuning.
Old 20th November 2009
  #27
tgs
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by themusicsmith View Post
3. Always start with the lowest tom first. Tune in perfect fourths (think here comes the bride for reference pitch). There is nothing worse than starting with the highest tom first and then realizing you started the whole kit too low and now your two lowest toms sound the same.
That, right there, is something I wish I had read 20 years ago! Can't believe I never thought about it before. Cheers!
Old 8th December 2009
  #28
Lives for gear
Quote:
I use a Peterson strobe tuner. New Evans EC2 heads, I finger-tighten the lugs. Next is just tiny little even turns (like less than a quarter turn) on each lug until it feels like the drum is throwing off enough energy to rattle a snare two rooms away. Then I see the closest note on the tuner and grab for it.

Can you explain how you use the peterson strobe tuner to tune drums? I have the hardest time hearing pitch when it comes to drums and would like to try using my tuner if possible.
Old 8th December 2009
  #29
Gear Addict
 
andrewenson's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying_Dutchman View Post
ok, i bought this used yamaha recording custon maple set from the 90s and wanted to tune the toms
well, it was the first time for me that i really cared about this problem, sad but true
i got evans ec2 heads for beater and watched the video at the evans page
genious! i was able to do it very quick
1. i tuned the head to it´s fullest sound (resonating)
2. i took a piano vsti an recognized the tone
3. i pitched the drum to the tone
4. i made small adjustments to get the skin be in tune at all points
5. i tuned the down side like this

the kit sounds really good, really really good
maybe this isn´t new to you all, but i just wanted to share, maybe it will help you
not only proper tuning. i was in a session where they were changing heads every 4 hours. i'm not a drummer, but the drums sounded amazing compared to the previous recordings i've heard from that band in that studio.
Old 8th December 2009
  #30
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tapehiss's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Roundmenge View Post
Kind of like...drums

i have to disagree.

drum making technology has come leaps and bounds since the 80's.

with brands like DW, Ayotte, and so many more....

you should see how DW's are made, and the wood is selected and tuned to perform in certain keys....

simply amazing!!!!!!!!!
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