The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
Recording rock band on a theater stage
Old 18th November 2009
  #1
Lives for gear
 
Darm's Avatar
 

Recording rock band on a theater stage

Sorry for doubling up this post, I already posted it in the moan-zone, but since I got only one answer, I think it might be a better idea to post this question here.
I have an opportunity to record a rock band (drums, bass and guitar) in a pretty big theater at night.
I want them all to track without headphones, so they would really have the live "feel".
If anybody here has done that kind of a thing before I would like to get any reccomendations on band placement on stage, and mic placement to get the minimum leakage.
I've got more technical info in my previous post here
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/moan-...d-theatre.html
and I would be really thankful for any good advices
Old 18th November 2009
  #2
Lives for gear
 
rockstar_josh's Avatar
 

If you're looking for max isolation you can put the guitar amps offstage, but then you have to think about monitoring for the band.

If you're really going for the stage feel, then just do it. Be conscious of the overall balance of stage volume. One thing I've found about recording on a stage is that you can work with microphone bleed. I noticed that there's a liveliness and sense of space created when the vocal mics and drum overheads pick up the guitar & bass. You can also set up room mics out in the seating area and work with that. As long as your stage volume is good then you don't have any one thing overpowering another.

One thing you could do is aim the vocal mic away from the other sources, and hopefully keep the vocal track cleaner and from being overpowered by the other sources. The bass guitar you can split to DI, so you'll def. have a clean track there. Of course, you may want floor monitors and those will bleed as well.

That's just my experience. Good luck!
Old 18th November 2009
  #3
Lives for gear
 
Flying_Dutchman's Avatar
 

mic bleed can be cool an must not be you enemy
just let them play like a gig
hmm, maybe:
1. use a trigger on the bass-drum, than i would sample the bass-drum and mix it in.
so you got no problems with getting this right, snare is no problem, i think
2. i would split the guitars before amp and record di for reamping later
3. i would try to put the vocal mic off axis against the band
4. i would put room mics
5. maybe you got sennheiser e906 for the amps, they are very deaf, if you compare them to sm57 for example
post your result!
Old 18th November 2009
  #4
Lives for gear
 
Darm's Avatar
 

thanx for your input Josh
I am not going to record the vocal for that time, the vocalist got some health problems, I am going to overdub him later.
I would like to find more info on OH mic placements- I usuall just go with recorderman's setup, cause I record in a tiny dead room. Do you think I should try Glyn Johns method, or maybe XY? To get more of the room sound?
I also think that I should put amps up front, so the drumset would be behind them, pointing them at the seats. I guess that would be the best way to isolate their sound from the Overheads?
I am also not sure if I need to use a mic for a hi hat, I never did in recording situations, but usually do live (when I work as an HOF mixer), to get more control over the hi hat? Or should I use that channell on the FF for another room mic? (I only have 10 analog channels on FF800)
Old 18th November 2009
  #5
Lives for gear
 
Flying_Dutchman's Avatar
 

i´d drop the hh mic for the room
i really like the "mixing with your brain" overheads
put the floor tom where it´s full, place your 1. overhead mic above it, pointing the tom
2. overhead at other side, same distance to snare
you could help your hihat with the snare mic placement
if you place the off axis right, you´ll get the right hh level
Old 19th November 2009
  #6
Lives for gear
 
rockstar_josh's Avatar
 

If you plan on using room mics then putting the guitar amps out front might mess with the balance... but then maybe not. Pay attention to it. It will make it harder for the drummer to hear the guitars, so you'll need to provide monitoring for him(her) somehow. You'll also have to account for everyone needing to hear the bass.

The real important thing in all of this is to do a take, play it back, make adjustments, do it again until you're sure about what you've done. You're not in a control room environment where you can hear clearly what's going on as you set your levels, so it takes a little more patience to get results.
Old 19th November 2009
  #7
Lives for gear
 
Darm's Avatar
 

The drummer usually plays to his metronome, and on the gigs- gets a lot of bass to his monitors.
But I am afraid of putting the bass amp close to him, I think that it might get the heads to resonate a lot.
I would also like to get a little info for the drum OH's room mics selection.
I've got 4 KM184s, 2 U87s, 2 U89s and a stereopair of 414's.
I was thinking of using U89's as a room mics (maybe pointing one at the stage, and one at the back wall, for more reflections), or setting them as a stereo AB or XY.
U87's for overheads, and one of KM184's as a room mic too.
Then a Sm7 on kick, sm57 on snare e609 on guitar and bass going DI + another KM184 ( tried it before and liked the result on that new solid state Fender Bassman).
Old 19th November 2009
  #8
Gear Addict
 
beanface's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darm View Post
Sorry for doubling up this post, I already posted it in the moan-zone, but since I got only one answer, I think it might be a better idea to post this question here.
I have an opportunity to record a rock band (drums, bass and guitar) in a pretty big theater at night.
I want them all to track without headphones, so they would really have the live "feel".
If anybody here has done that kind of a thing before I would like to get any reccomendations on band placement on stage, and mic placement to get the minimum leakage.
I've got more technical info in my previous post here
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/moan-...d-theatre.html
and I would be really thankful for any good advices
Set up the equiptment on the stage how you intend on having them panned in the soundstage. If you've got a stage and the drummer is tight, try the Glyn Johns technique, it will probably pay off big time in a space like that!! Guitars and bass I'd do pretty standard. I really wouldn't track the vox here though. Personally, I'd say sod the triggers - you've got the luxury of a stage to record on. Just spend a couple of hours making sure the mics are picking up what you need them to, and move them if they're not. check in mono too

Good luck
Old 21st November 2009
  #9
Lives for gear
 
Darm's Avatar
 

Did it!

What a fun night!
Actually found a piano there, and recorded it too...
The only problem that I faced was bass with some standing waves- guess I'll have to add some automation to the room mics
Attached Thumbnails
Recording rock band on a theater stage-100_6628.jpg   Recording rock band on a theater stage-100_6567.jpg   Recording rock band on a theater stage-100_6583.jpg   Recording rock band on a theater stage-100_6586.jpg  
Old 21st November 2009
  #10
Lives for gear
 
Darm's Avatar
 

Just bounced a few cuts of overheads (U87's in recorderman's setup, no eq), I am loving it so far!
Download u87drumdemo.mp3 from Sendspace.com - send big files the easy way
Old 21st November 2009
  #11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darm View Post
Just bounced a few cuts of overheads (U87's in recorderman's setup, no eq), I am loving it so far!
Download u87drumdemo.mp3 from Sendspace.com - send big files the easy way
instant vintage sound thumbsup
Old 21st November 2009
  #12
Gear Addict
 
beanface's Avatar
 

So glad you went for minimalist on the drums! Nice work old boy. 3 hips for high ceilings....
Old 22nd November 2009
  #13
Lives for gear
 
Darm's Avatar
 

The biggest problem that showed up was standing waves from a bass cabs...
It really hurts the room mic, when you listen to their channels some bass notes are getting just way too big, and the room starts resonating.
I tried cutting the low's on the bass amp, tried poinging bass cab in a different direction- and it was still there.
I wonder if there are any ways to get it out of the room mics?
Maybe placing the room mics off center? Or pointing the bass amp in some other way?
I also now think that Should have used one more mic above the whole setup pointing straight up, I tried it after the recording and really liked the sound bouncing off all the thetre lights and stuff...
Old 22nd November 2009
  #14
Lives for gear
 
AnthonyRochester's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darm View Post
The biggest problem that showed up was standing waves from a bass cabs...
It really hurts the room mic, when you listen to their channels some bass notes are getting just way too big, and the room starts resonating.
I tried cutting the low's on the bass amp, tried poinging bass cab in a different direction- and it was still there.
I wonder if there are any ways to get it out of the room mics?

turn the amp down a bit?
📝 Reply
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
🖨️ Show Printable Version
✉️ Email this Page
🔍 Search thread
♾️ Similar Threads
🎙️ View mentioned gear
Forum Jump
Forum Jump