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Do You Need an Engineer in the Studio?
Old 16th November 2009
  #1
Gear Nut
 
dannyofmarge's Avatar
 

Do You Need an Engineer in the Studio?

hey so i found this on youtube...

YouTube - Do You Need an Engineer in the Studio?


ive never heard one guy talk so much, but not really make any point....

sad really, that a grown man could go around saying that an engineer not an essential part of the studio...

wow...
Old 16th November 2009
  #2
Lives for gear
 
DontLetMeDrown's Avatar
 

I didn't interpret it that way at all. I agree with pretty much everything that guy said.
Old 16th November 2009
  #3
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macr0w's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DontLetMeDrown View Post
I didn't interpret it that way at all. I agree with pretty much everything that guy said.
Me too.
Old 16th November 2009
  #4
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macr0w's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dannyofmarge View Post
hey so i found this on youtube...

YouTube - Do You Need an Engineer in the Studio?


ive never heard one guy talk so much, but not really make any point....

sad really, that a grown man could go around saying that an engineer not an essential part of the studio...

wow...
Maybe you should listen to that again.
Old 17th November 2009
  #5
Gear Addict
 
tlennon's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by macr0w View Post
Me too.
I also didn't interpret it that way and agree with most of what he was saying.
Old 17th November 2009
  #6
Gear Addict
 

Do we need talent in the studio?

THAT is the question...
Old 17th November 2009
  #7
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dannyofmarge's Avatar
 

hmmm...

i must say, i was quickly humbled by your responses... so i watched the video again, in fact i watched it twice...

now ive seen it three times, and every time, im left with the same feeling of dissatisfaction...

sure there might be an upside to engineering your own recordings. but it doesnt negate the necessity of qualified engineer to raise the bar of sonic fidelity.

He talks about Prince, and marvin Gaye as exceptions, and implies most people cannot where two or more hats in the studio. but throughout the video i felt as if he was talking about that small minority as if they are a majority.

"the producer and the artist have a level of communication that doesnt allow for a third person(engineer) in the room."

maybe so, but what about the engineers job?
should that be sacrificed? vibe over sonic quality... seems like a very circumstantial argument to me...

if an artist highers an engineer as both an engineer and a "producer", thats one thing. but im not yet prepaired to swallow an artist and producer team who kicks an engineer to the curb.

in my mind, everyone has a job they do well. some people are good at more than one job... but at the end of the day, people should stick to what they are good at. and when recording, an engineer is a necessary.

videos like that will inspire people stop working with engineers or producers all together. musicians will wonder why they even need a studio all together.

bands come to me all the time asking me to mix their home recordings. im happy to do it. but i gotta say, 9 out of 10 times, they are only mildly happy with the tracks they brought me.

maybe its not what was said in the video that i dont like, maybe its underlying message that will conveniently be misunderstood by musicans...

sorry for the rant, im feeling feisty today.
Old 17th November 2009
  #8
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Still seems like you're interpreting it backwards. Probably because the title is a little mis-leading. The guy is saying don't waste time learning to be an engineer if you really want to be known as an artist/performer. Most people can't do a kickass job at both and it takes lots of time to learn. For instance, if you can't do both, "you need an engineer in the studio."
Old 17th November 2009
  #9
Gear Maniac
 
WiZKiD's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dannyofmarge View Post
"the producer and the artist have a level of communication that doesnt allow for a third person(engineer) in the room."

maybe so, but what about the engineers job?
should that be sacrificed? vibe over sonic quality... seems like a very circumstantial argument to me...

if an artist highers an engineer as both an engineer and a "producer", thats one thing. but im not yet prepaired to swallow an artist and producer team who kicks an engineer to the curb.
I'm not sure I agree with what you refer to as a "job". To even understand how this role in the studio developed, u have to look at where it came from. What an "Engineer" does today, compared to what Engineers did in the past, we are talking about two very different things... Engineers today sit in front of a computer, where they are really fast in PT, some have a good understanding of outboard, can mix, and track well...and they all want a their name on a hit. This is not what engineering has always been. In fact, this "job" you speak of has only been around for a couple decades at best.

In fact, I bet if this forum traveled 20 years back, a small percentage of GS's would even know what anyone was talking about. There used to be a day when an Engineer knew the physics behind music and sound. Some were rocket scientists. Literally. As well as electrical circuit gurus.

They didn't just run the tape, track and mix. These were engineers who knew how wave forms worked inside and out. How frequencies would react to certain stimulus, and how running signal through scientifically designed circuits would effect the audio that they captured with a mic they knew just as well. They also understood how each aspect of the circuits (transistors, diaphragms, potentiometers, resistors, etc...) could be engineered to manipulate the waveforms, and more importantly, they knew how to make and fix the gear they used. Most "Big" Engineers of the past had a hand in Engineering the gear we enjoy using today.

And they did this without ever seeing a waveform. They weren't aspiring recording artists...most weren't even musicians. They were scientists that loved music.

It's 2009. How to record into a DAW is common knowledge. I would buy a 15 year old a PT LE system to play with. Any coherent producer can track a band with just as good results as an Engineer. It's just their choice if they hire one.

See the difference?

Who knows what an Engineer will be in 15 years
Old 17th November 2009
  #10
Deleted 86c3d96
Guest
As near as I can remember, engineers were real technical wizards. The horribly underpaid, greasy, bad hygiene, smelly, long haired, tatooed, pasty audio dweeb is a thing of the past.
Old 17th November 2009
  #11
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paultools's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by WiZKiD View Post
Any coherent producer can track a band with just as good results as an Engineer.
DIS AG GREE!

...and if the engineer is competent and on his game, he is largely invisible to artist and producer!
Old 17th November 2009
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WiZKiD View Post
It's 2009. How to record into a DAW is common knowledge.
Not quite true - it's pretty common knowledge how to run a DAW application and piss around with music, but there's a hell of a lot going on before the music hits the converter. And in this case, proper implementation is becoming less and less common.

Embarrassingly amateurish actually.
Old 17th November 2009
  #13
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Darm's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by WiZKiD View Post
Any coherent producer can track a band with just as good results as an Engineer. It's just their choice if they hire one.
Every producer knows the studio's mic collection? And has a lot of ideas on microphone placement? And knows how to use a tape machine, and whether its worth it for that band? And knows all the outboard that needs to be patched in to achieve a different sound?
Every band or artist can record themselves, all they need is a Zoom h2 in a middle of the room. But then- eveyry band would sound the same.
Producers add up to what band have made, they help them to add that "touch" in terms of music, they also have a set of "fresh ears", they have not heard that song a 1000 times and did not got used to hearing it one way.
Engineers role is to add a little more to it- like find an amp, find a way to place a mic, show producer what they can do with squashing overheads with compression and etc....
Old 17th November 2009
  #14
Moderator
 
narcoman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dannyofmarge View Post
hey so i found this on youtube...

YouTube - Do You Need an Engineer in the Studio?


ive never heard one guy talk so much, but not really make any point....

sad really, that a grown man could go around saying that an engineer not an essential part of the studio...

wow...
he doesnt say that AT ALL. HE says there are few people capable of doing this and one should allow for situations where a producer and artists doesnt allow for third person in the room. At no point does he even hint that engineers aint needed.


and WizKid - there are PLENTY of big name producers who dont know any mic's or techniques. They know how to handle making a record ..... I'm no great recording engineer but i've produced product that has sold millions......I get someone else to track my productions.
Old 17th November 2009
  #15
member no 666
 
Fletcher's Avatar
I'm surprised the moderators here haven't banned "Lemonsqueezer"s IP... I added him to my ignore list.

Getting this back on topic... one of the first things you guys should probably understand is who the guy speaking is on the video.

Carl Beatty has been a teacher of "Music Engineering and Production" at the Berklee College of Music for MANY years. Before that he was a "first call" engineer in New York City [I first met him at Sigma Sound in NY in about 90-91].

What Carl is actually saying is that while there are a few people who can wear both the engineer and artist or engineer and producer hat... and that their ability to do so will often lead to the accomplishment of the artistic goal in a highly efficient manner, the fact of the matter is that this is an EXCEPTION and NOT THE RULE.

I understand that Carl has a vocabulary that is outside the reach of most on GS... but don't let that get in the way of your extrapolation of the actual meaning of what he is saying... which is: in some instances you don't require an engineer, but in most cases you do... and when an artist and engineer or a producer and engineer have a rapport, then the project can move better and attain greater results than without an engineer".

The title of the video puts a chip on your shoulder when you watch it, but if you listen to the content, Carl is saying that it is a fallacy that an engineer is unneeded. Check out the line about how when the video camera came out how everyone was now a film maker [which I think You Tube has proven ain't the case in the slightest].

Peace.
Old 17th November 2009
  #16
Moderator
 
narcoman's Avatar
 

absolutely right F.
Old 17th November 2009
  #17
500 series nutjob
 
pan60's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DontLetMeDrown View Post
I didn't interpret it that way at all. I agree with pretty much everything that guy said.
Quote:
Originally Posted by macr0w View Post
Maybe you should listen to that again.
plus 1 more!
Old 17th November 2009
  #18
Quote:
Originally Posted by dannyofmarge View Post
hey so i found this on youtube...

YouTube - Do You Need an Engineer in the Studio?


ive never heard one guy talk so much, but not really make any point....

sad really, that a grown man could go around saying that an engineer not an essential part of the studio...

wow...
He's not saying no one needs an engineer. He's saying some folks in some situations may not need one.

Having been a studio engineer who now only records himself, I would tend to agree. That said, having someone else engineer for you, even though you're perfectly capable (possibly more capable) can free you from having to go into some modes of thought that are, as Beatty says, potentially distracting on an artistic level.


You know, if Beatty was saying that no one ever needed an engineer, I'd see the motivation for the OP's pique here, but this just all seems very reasonable to me.
Old 17th November 2009
  #19
Quote:
Originally Posted by 777Artin View Post
Do we need talent in the studio?

THAT is the question...
I know I do...

heh


Quote:
Originally Posted by harry_seldon View Post
As near as I can remember, engineers were real technical wizards. The horribly underpaid, greasy, bad hygiene, smelly, long haired, tatooed, pasty audio dweeb is a thing of the past.
Hey... I resent that. I had short hair...
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