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Do I really need a Preamp to Reamp or can I use... Direct Injection & Re-amp Boxes
Old 16th November 2009
  #1
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rewind's Avatar
 

Do I really need a Preamp to Reamp or can I use...

Sup Slutz

I recently discovered the wonderfull world of Reamping. I've been doing quite a bit of it and love it. So many options!

My reamping chain is as follows:

Gibson/Fender --> SCA D11 (DI) --> SCA A12 or C84 (Pres) --> Apogee AD --> Pro Tools. After a few edits: Pro Tools --> Apogee DA --> Radial X-Amp --> Amp of choice.

One thing that I have noticed, when using this set up, is that the Pres (especially the A12) adds color to my guitar sound (which is supposed to be clean). Not that this is bad, but I want a CLEAN uncolored sound when it reaches the amp. I mean after all isnt that what reamping is about.

What can I do to solve this issue? Can I skip the DI and Pre all together and use the following chain:

Gibson/Fender --> Line Mixer --> Apogee AD --> PT

Isnt a guitars signal Line Level? Cant I just use the Line Mixer to get the signal hot enough to go straight into the AD? Will a Line Mixer (which I think uses a simple Op Amp circuit) color my sound or give me the uncolored, uninterupted, CLEAN sound I want?

Hmmm. Im gonna give the Line Mixer idea a shot. I have a Fostex 2016 Line Mixer that I use for Keyboards. But befor I do, does anybody have any thoughts, comments, questions or suggestion?
Old 16th November 2009
  #2
Lives for gear
 
NWSooner's Avatar
 

For reamping I can't recommend the MW1 Studio Tool highly enough. It's not cheap, but it's designed for exactly what you're trying to do.
Old 16th November 2009
  #3
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larry b's Avatar
 

A guitar pickup's output is nowhere near the impedance or voltage of a line level audio signal.
Old 16th November 2009
  #4
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rewind's Avatar
 

Larry

Your absolutely right. I totally for got about the impedance.

NWSooner

I looked into the MW1, but like you said its pricy. Is there anything else that does the same thing for less money?
Old 16th November 2009
  #5
Gear Nut
 

So, if I'm understanding your question, the only thing you can do is buy a cleaner pre I guess. The C84 should be fairly clean itself though. Not sure on your budget, but for clean pres I like a GML. Have a search for clean mic pres. Lots of options.
Old 16th November 2009
  #6
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rewind's Avatar
 

Thanks David

I did look into other pres and your right the C84 is pretty transperant but not completely. This suck I guess the MW1 is my only option if I want that pure sound. $800 ouch!!
Old 16th November 2009
  #7
I usually run my DI (Little Labs IBP) straight into my Digi 192. It works perfectly every time and might be worth a try for you. I've A/B'd this setup with a guitar straight into the amp and the difference is indiscernable.
Old 16th November 2009
  #8
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rewind's Avatar
 

Little Labs IBP Phase Tool? Ummm but isnt that for... Well Phase adjustment? Really?
Old 16th November 2009
  #9
Quote:
Originally Posted by rewind View Post
Little Labs IBP Phase Tool? Ummm but isnt that for... Well Phase adjustment? Really?
The IBP is a DI, re-amper, line buffer, and phase adjustment tool all in one. A truly handy piece of kit!
Old 16th November 2009
  #10
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rewind's Avatar
 

Yup I just read the description on the Lil Labs website. Ok now, my only question is regarding what Mr David wrote about the impedance. How does the IBP change the impedance of of the guitar signal. Does the IBP boost the level enough to go straight into the AD?
Old 16th November 2009
  #11
Quote:
Originally Posted by rewind View Post
Yup I just read the description on the Lil Labs website. Ok now, my only question is regarding what Mr David wrote about the impedance. How does the IBP change the impedance of of the guitar signal. Does the IBP boost the level enough to go straight into the AD?
The D.I. section converts the guitar signal (high impedance) to a low impedance balanced signal. Since it's an active D.I. there isn't any voltage loss and the level is sufficient to run straight into the A/D without any additional boost from a mic pre. I did this at the suggestion of the IBP manual and it's nice because there is no gain change or color from the mic preamp. The manual recommends doing this for active instruments but it's worked with everything I've thrown at it so far.
Old 16th November 2009
  #12
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rewind's Avatar
 

I see... Thanks Cory. I appreciate your help on this. Now Im a little torn between MW1 and the IBP.

Has anyone else used the IBP with similar results? What would you guys get if you where me?
Old 18th November 2009
  #13
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rewind's Avatar
 

After doing quite a bit of research, I think I found a solution to my problem. Check this out: Creation Audio Labs - Blow it out your amp! The Redeemer Circuit

Quote from web site:

"PLUG DIRECTLY INTO THE LINE INPUT ON A MIXER. Because the output impedance is less than 300ohms the circuit can easily drive a line input for going direct to a mixer. This results in a clear, full range of tone that sounds better than using a direct box for live or recording applications."

This is exacly what I needed. With the redeemer, now I can skip the DI and Pre and plug my guitar into to my super clean line mixer and go straight into my AD! No coloration and compression just a pure clean transparent Guitar track to reamp later. The MW1 is awsome, but I just dont need all the other feature right now. And lets not forget the $800 price tag. Thanks for the help guys.
Old 18th November 2009
  #14
Gear Maniac
 

Have you tried plugging the D11 directly into your line mixer? If the mixer has 15dB to 30dB of gain available you don't need the mic pre in the signal path.
Old 18th November 2009
  #15
Lives for gear
 
SANDS's Avatar
 

I don't understand why you are going from the D11 to another preamp if your intention is to reamp later.

Record the guitar with the D11 straight to the converter that feeds your daw. After that run it out your da to the remp device.

There's no reason to preamp that guitar signal at the tracking stage, and hopefully you aren't hitting those converters too hard either on the way in.
Old 18th November 2009
  #16
Gear Head
 
Sean240's Avatar
 

+1 on the MW-1

If it seems pricey, you have to realise it is more than just an re-amp tool. I use it for colouration (by adjusting input impedance), to drive my tube amp input a bit harder (boost out), to drive two amps when tracking (one wet, one dry) and a tuner at the same time, AND... the balanced out to my DAW - all at the same time.

it's almost like a Redeemer, boost pedal, and re-amp tool. Actually one of the best bits of gear I bought this year.

I think any guitarist, once you plug into this thing, you'll love it.
Old 18th November 2009
  #17
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steelyfan's Avatar
 

I'm not following any of this. If you want to reamp, or re-process a clean guitar sound, track it clean. Once you've achieved a clean recording, just run that track out through an aux out or any output from whatever you are using (interface/recorder/tape recorder, etc.....) to it's destination input after you've done what you wanted to to the audio.

I record keys, guitars, vocals, etc... all day long with the idea of running them out later through effects pedals into an amp, and then mic'ing the amp into a new track. I use an Akai DPS24, it has 4 aux outs, I use 2 for external effects and the other 2 for outputs to send random audio to different sources to be "additional processed".

I've had no issues with getting enough output juice to the next source.

Why do you need a reamp box?
Old 18th November 2009
  #18
Quote:
Originally Posted by steelyfan View Post
I'm not following any of this. If you want to reamp, or re-process a clean guitar sound, track it clean. Once you've achieved a clean recording, just run that track out through an aux out or any output from whatever you are using (interface/recorder/tape recorder, etc.....) to it's destination input after you've done what you wanted to to the audio.

I record keys, guitars, vocals, etc... all day long with the idea of running them out later through effects pedals into an amp, and then mic'ing the amp into a new track. I use an Akai DPS24, it has 4 aux outs, I use 2 for external effects and the other 2 for outputs to send random audio to different sources to be "additional processed".

I've had no issues with getting enough output juice to the next source.

Why do you need a reamp box?
The idea is to convert the balanced line level signal from your DAW/recorder back to a lower level, high impedance, unbalanced signal, which is what your guitar amp is designed to accept. It'll still work without the reamp box, but you can potentially run into level/balancing/impedance matching issues.
Old 19th November 2009
  #19
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rewind's Avatar
 

SeventhCircle

I'll try pluging the D11 to the Line Mixer tonight and let you know if it works.

Sands

I tried pluging in the D11 straight into the AD, but the signal was super low (like -20 dB I think) and it sounded farty.

Sean240

I know, the MW1 is efen awsome and I do plan getting one as soon as I can come up with the cash. The Redeemer is simply what I need at the moment.

SteelyFan

In order to get a guitar signal into an AD (for reamping later) the signal must be amplified either by a pre, , DI, line mixer or what have you. My issue with this is that, all these units colors the signal. I want the guitar sound coming out of my DA into the amp, as close to the original as possible. Uncolored.
Old 19th November 2009
  #20
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it should be around -20dbfs. Send an email to Apogee, I think they spec them around -16 for the max.

It should sound farty and lame because there's nothing there but a sterile boring signal, the magic should happen after you send it back out to your prefered amp, fx, etc...mic it up with a favorite mic and use your favorite preamp to color it the way you want.
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