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help needed with sample/vsti piano (and problem with reason?)
Old 14th November 2009
  #1
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help needed with sample/vsti piano (and problem with reason?)

I am very new to the whole vsti thing and wanted something excellent that will pass as realistic in a mix, and feel right to a piano player.

I am working with Cubase 5.

So I started by picking up Reason Pianos...

Easy program to use and the band I'm recording likes the Steinway, BUT, I notice when the sustain pedal has been held for a long period of time there is a buildup of noise from the sustained notes.

I guess I could benefit from some education as to why this is, but I really could benefit from a solution to make it go away, or maybe you folks could help point me in the right direction to a better vsti piano that doesn't suffer from this problem?

Thank you, Soundawg.
Old 15th November 2009
  #2
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Old 15th November 2009
  #3
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FireMoon's Avatar
Dosen't Halion 1 come with Cubase 5? if so try the PMI piano libraries, which are pretty cheap and actually pretty damn good..


PMI : Products : Grandioso Bösendorfer 290 Giga 24-bit DVD
Old 15th November 2009
  #4
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Forget it. That buildup you hear could be one or many/all of several things; it could be just too many resonances building up from the "open strings", or the played notes, or it could be digital artifacts. Modeled pianos seem to suffer more than anything from artifacts. It's intolerable to me when I'm practicing using a vst plugin. If you're just having a problem with the resonance from the sustain pedal being held open too long, just depress it when there's a chord change. Or go into the MIDI event lane and edit the sustain pedal to close when it builds up too much gunk you don't like. Or just feather it on and off like real piano players do. If you listen carefully to a lot of pop music, sometimes what sounds like a sustenato is actually the played strings resonating. Not to delve into too much idiotic music theory, but a lot of pop music involves parallel intervals, octaves and fifths, fourths, etc. and this can sound like an open piano, when in fact it's the piano player making clever use of resonant frequencies. I'm pretty damn sure they don't think of it that way, they just do what sounds and feels right for the song. Just try feathering the pedal. I'm familiar with reason, and I'm not positive, but I'm pretty damn sure that's programmable in a MIDI event lane.
Old 15th November 2009
  #5
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yep -i hear ya rkopald, and thank you - I would prefer to not alter what the musician plays for the sake of the software if possible?
Old 15th November 2009
  #6
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In typical contemporary (pop/rock/jazz) or classical music, one should almost NEVER hold the sustain pedal for long periods of time unless it's for a specific effect, or at the end of a passage or song to allow a chord to ring out. You should be changing with chords or at least changing with phrasing. This is just normal technique.

You WILL hear a greater buildup of artifacts in a vst piano, and they will be less pleasant by far than the overtones of a real piano played in the same way.

That said, I get some good stuff out of the Reason piano libraries. I like their "producer pianos".
Old 15th November 2009
  #7
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Maybe so maxhype, but if it IS one of those rare almost never times, or the song isn't typical, or if it's meant for effect, or if it just sounds good that way... then what?

Please don't take offense guys but I'm not looking for anyone to defend the problem, change a players technique, or involve myself in a lot of post editing... if possible.

What I'm really interested in knowing is why this happens, does it happen to all virtual pianos, if so, which virtual piano has done the best job towards fixing the problem, and does the fix compromise the piano's sound?

I'm guessing this noise issue happens because if there are several notes hanging for a long period all stacked together which have all been sampled with their own respective sets of microphones, the result is a buildup of noise floor? If I'm right, then the best of the best must be aware of the problem, and I'm hoping there must be some company that is on the right track towards curing it?

Regards, Soundawg
Old 18th November 2009
  #8
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Well I hear artifacts on every piano plugin I use, and when I'm soloing the piano parts out they drive me crazy. I went to a Sonar workshop recently where I told the rep I though that the artifacts in the piano plug ins were a little bit of a bummer, and he said "We don't have any artifacts in our piano plug ins". Ook. But with some of them once it's in a mix it's not as noticeable. I'm sure there are lots of other people that've had the same issue. I remember seeing a post or 2 around these parts...Good luck. and Maxhype's completely right about the sustain pedal. Artifacts. Hate em. Wish I had my old upright Cherry grand piano still.
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