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Digidesign Pro Tools Next Move Audio Interfaces
Old 18th November 2009
  #211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bolooki View Post
go drop your savings on the LE TO hd2 hardware exchange and just accept that free 192 with open arms. they're always going to be a small-budget consumer group of le/logic/etc. and a more professional highbudget group using only HD. I dont care what anyone says about ptle- compared to logic PTLE totally owns. logic is garbage and no one in any legit studio around the world would solely rely on that bull****!

But between LE & HD, personally I think digi is not selling **** right now and is trying to capture as many top-end le users into the hd club with their current promo. if you've ever rocked 100 tracks of music on a tdm setup vs. submixing down to 48 tracks while changing your playback to 1024 on an LE setup, then you know what's up. they both function, but only one is sturdy and reliable for everyday work with artists and people with no attention span, no compassion for your computer, and who dont like to be told to hold on.


make the leap LE users! DO IT WHILE YOU CAN!!!!!
Are you just some kind of a Troll? Go away
Old 18th November 2009
  #212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidperetz View Post
although this stuff borderline sci-fi, i have to admit that a few years ago when i was going through that "which daw is better sounding?" - phase, i came to the normative conclusion that if they null out then they sound the same.
but my ears kept insisting and telling me that the daw's don't sound the same. eventually i did some interesting test and switched the daw between 2 asio drivers going to the same converter that i had in my computer.
the sound i got through the usb port into the converter was vastly different than the one i got going trough the spdif out and into the same converter.
when i mentioned this here in gearslutz i got responses that said it's imposable since the drivers don't have any sound of them self and they just pass audio. however with my unscientific ears i keep hearing a big difference weather the audio goes through asio or protools protocol through the same converter. even if you open the same mix in cubae and in media player there is a really obvious difference. so you can make funny icons but i believe this subject is not loony town ground and shoud be considered as a serious factor to the difference sound that comes out from different daw's
your hearing things - since we've pretty much all considered that route!!
Old 18th November 2009
  #213
Gear Addict
 

Still think that MPowered will become the new PT LE. The interfaces are borderline redundant to each other in a prosumer kinda way.
Old 18th November 2009
  #214
Gear Nut
 

i just heard from a really good source that must go unnamed,he had lunch with the VP of Digi, that LE users are going to be extremely happy very soon.....

he told me not to buy an HD rig....and to just wait a bit longer.

so we shall see.

i'm just sharing the gossip....i hope it is true.
Old 18th November 2009
  #215
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Kenny Gioia's Avatar
 

Just got my Sweetwater catalog and I started checking prices.

All Native DAWS are now under $500.00.

Except Pro Tools and Nuendo.

So I believe other companies should have their issues as well.

Can Nuendo survive with all other DAWS matching the Logic price point?

Companies like Live and Cubase were built that way. Digital Performer?

What does Nuendo give you for that extra money?
Old 18th November 2009
  #216
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tamasdragon's Avatar
 

Nuendo almost gives you hd software knowledge. When you have to compare nuendo and pro tools, it is almost only personal preference.
Imho, pro tools has the edge with very few functions and somewhat better stability.
TD
Old 18th November 2009
  #217
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tamasdragon's Avatar
 

I have one real problem with many daws, except nuendo and pro tools (even le).
If you push the system near to it's maximum, all daws except the above mentioned ones starting to acting strangely. Not necessarily crashing, but doing unpredictable things.
This is my experience. (not only mine of course)
TD
Old 18th November 2009
  #218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tamasdragon View Post
I have one real problem with many daws, except nuendo and pro tools (even le).
If you push the system near to it's maximum, all daws except the above mentioned ones starting to acting strangely. Not necessarily crashing, but doing unpredictable things.
This is my experience. (not only mine of course)
TD
Yes absolute quality is the new battleground for DAWs as they are all now comparable in feature sets.

Not sure Avid's reputation for quality will survive its offshoring program.

If you want real quality in a DAW try Ableton Live.
Old 18th November 2009
  #219
Motown legend
 
Bob Olhsson's Avatar
 

The higher price reflects post as opposed to music features. This is also the difference between m-powered and LE.

One thing LE lacks is hardware to support the new surround features in the Complete Production Toolkit so that may be what is being hinted at.
Old 19th November 2009
  #220
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DONNX's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by evillain View Post
i just heard from a really good source that must go unnamed,he had lunch with the VP of Digi, that LE users are going to be extremely happy very soon.....

he told me not to buy an HD rig....and to just wait a bit longer.

so we shall see.

i'm just sharing the gossip....i hope it is true.

Here we go again
Old 19th November 2009
  #221
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oceantracks's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tamasdragon View Post
Nuendo almost gives you hd software knowledge. When you have to compare nuendo and pro tools, it is almost only personal preference.
Imho, pro tools has the edge with very few functions and somewhat better stability.
TD
With Digidesign providing a million times better support and testing, and updates.

TH
Old 19th November 2009
  #222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oceantracks View Post
With Digidesign providing a million times better support and testing, and updates.

TH
So true

Steiny is tops, right after MOTU.
Old 19th November 2009
  #223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spicemix View Post
If you want real quality in a DAW try Ableton Live.
Spice, are you an Ableton pimp or just a happy customer??
Old 19th November 2009
  #224
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Call me Thomas, Ill believe it when its here
Old 19th November 2009
  #225
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Phaidon's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by spicemix View Post
If you want real quality in a DAW try Ableton Live.
...
Old 19th November 2009
  #226
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shanabit View Post
Spice, are you an Ableton pimp or just a happy customer??
I'm not even a customer! I just have the versions that came with pro tools. But it's a performance daw, allowing you to change anything at anytime without sonic impact, and thus has a far more rigorous stability requirement. Nothings perfect but it has a better rep than pthd certainly.

(cue unbelievable tales of pthd rigs never crashing once in five years )
Old 19th November 2009
  #227
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marcpl's Avatar
 

i know that there are some supposedly major updates coming out for all the A.I.R. VI's. that's all i've heard though.

marco
Old 19th November 2009
  #228
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by spicemix View Post
I'm not even a customer! I just have the versions that came with pro tools. But it's a performance daw, allowing you to change anything at anytime without sonic impact, and thus has a far more rigorous stability requirement. Nothings perfect but it has a better rep than pthd certainly.

(cue unbelievable tales of pthd rigs never crashing once in five years )
it is silly to compare PT with ableton. ableton is amazing for playing live (clue's in the name), demoing and experimenting. PT is the best programme i've found for tracking and editing.

now, what if you could somehow use both at the same time, as if they were somehow wired together without actually having the wires? that would be pretty good wouldn't it. oh look you can. heaven.
Old 19th November 2009
  #229
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Quote:
Originally Posted by narcoman View Post
At the moment I'm doing archive for syncs of hundreds of classic tracks from many labels. I get two things delivered to me - tapes or PT session. Out of the 1100 or so delivered so far it's all been those two formats. NO others. AT ALL.

When it comes to mixing soundtrack - EVERY composer I've worked with send PT sessions or which ever DAW bounce outs.
I've been involved in movie projects where we have sent out PT projects, but where PT has been used in place of OMF/AAF. The studio bought Pro Tools in order to provide one file with all the stems instead of sending stems as separate files.

One reason people send PT files is of course that many studios ask for PT files, but the fact that you receive only tape or PT files doesn't by itself mean that PT or tape is standard. Tape isn't a standard anymore. PT has been a standard in many/most high-end studios for a while. After this historical Gearslutz month with "Pro Tools is a standard" endlessly repeated combined with lots of assumed (and incorrect) "facts" about what the competition can and cannot do, discussing the next move - of Avid, and the DAW business as such - should hopefully still be possible - including a discussion about how standards sometimes change.

Based on all the recent posts from someone who knows someone who knows some AViD VIP, it seems that AVid want to replace their own standard (PTHD) with a new range. It's extremely unlikely that they wouldn't do that, because that's what they (Digidesign) always have done.

Based on this poll started almost two years ago, most people seemed to think that they will make more powerful cards... which of course is possible, except that the longer the wait with releasing such cards, the less people need extra cards.

My personal guess: the most economical and simple change for Avid would be to merge two products into one, namely the I/Os and the DSP cards, into one product: an I/O with some added DSP, which possibly also can serve as a standalone recorder, with built-in networking options (so one can exchange data with computers, upgrade the system etc).

Such a box would probably be based on some (under-the-hood) industrial version of Windows, which Avid probably won't mention in the ads, since 90-95 % of their high-ends users probably use Mac.

This solution would solve a lot of problems for them:
First, they would sell more hardware than now, because they would actually sell computers (built into the I/O).
They would be independent of being compatible with new software versions on the Mac platform, because they simply wouldn't use Apple's OS anymore.
If the box would be updatable through special routines/Ethernet only, they wouldn't risk that people would install non-compatibke versions of Windows on it either.
They could use the same box for HD and LE versions, both would have low latency, but the high-end version would be uncrippled.
This way, they wouldn't only merge two products (DSP cards and interfaces), but also two product ranges.
With that in mind, they could probably let go of even more employees, and save more money, because there would be fewer types of hardware and software to support, and fewer people working on compatibility issues.
Also - they wouldn't need to worry about hardware manufacturers changing from PCIe to a new standard, because PT would only be used on their own computers-in-disguise.

It could also create a problem: people wouldn't buy it, but go 'native', and buy interfaces with built-in DSP from other manufacturers instead.
Old 19th November 2009
  #230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evillain View Post
i just heard from a really good source that must go unnamed
We should have a special forum for posts like these.
Old 19th November 2009
  #231
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by narcoman View Post
the onus is you to prove you're right im afraid - you're in mad land on that one !!

Oh - and I dont believe you - not without seeing your test and your actual results. Adding up and quantifying aint stats - and aint proof. For math proof and to be able to quantify it I'd need to see a distribution of peoples SCORES of sound quality between the two. THEN you can quote better or worse - not "which is the one you like".

OK, I will post a new test later. I belive the sound more people like is better, but not scores or some data analysed by machine. And I'm afraid you can't understand my origanal post for that blind test because it's written in Chinese.
Old 19th November 2009
  #232
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tamasdragon's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by oceantracks View Post
With Digidesign providing a million times better support and testing, and updates.

TH
Yeah, I forgot that, you're right!
Old 19th November 2009
  #233
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tamasdragon's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson View Post
The higher price reflects post as opposed to music features. This is also the difference between m-powered and LE.

One thing LE lacks is hardware to support the new surround features in the Complete Production Toolkit so that may be what is being hinted at.
I think digi002 and 003 is able to support surround features. Am I miss something?
TD
Old 19th November 2009
  #234
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tamasdragon's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by spicemix View Post
Yes absolute quality is the new battleground for DAWs as they are all now comparable in feature sets.

Not sure Avid's reputation for quality will survive its offshoring program.

If you want real quality in a DAW try Ableton Live.
We still have no even one real evidence that this offshoring program is real. Any reliable source on this?
Old 19th November 2009
  #235
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G-Spot's Avatar
 

My guess is that Plug-in Delay Compensation will be introduced in PT LE, but automatic delay compensation for hardware inserts will be left out for HD.

If automatic delay compensation for hardware inserts will be available for LE, then you will have to buy some kind of hardware like the Eleven Rack, or a pimped up 003 or "HD light version" with limited I/Os.

In HD department I could imagine some hardware having something like the Apogee Symphony S-Bus routing thing, so you could use the old HD rigs with a new HD or Native device.

What could we see coming in the software:
a load of new (A.i.R) Virtual Instruments, that the "import session data" for LE will be just like in TDM, a Audio to Midi converter (with velocity values like Drumtracker ftom Toontrack), a built-in "Volume Rider" like the (Waves Rider or the Vocal Rider), compressor plug-ins with a mix wet/dry knob, a multi-band compressor and limiter, linear phase compression and eq, some kind of "freeze" function", that when you want to send something to a new bus that the bus will be created automatically (like in Logic), a "transient designer" plug-in, graphical sound analysis and optional metering balistics. Maybe even some mixing console emulations... Kinda like the "Harrison MixBus".
Old 19th November 2009
  #236
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oceantracks's Avatar
 

"Based on all the recent posts from someone who knows someone who knows some AViD VIP, it seems that AVid want to replace their own standard (PTHD) with a new range."

No that's not what he said at all. He was speaking about LE.

Digidesign has already stated that HD will not be replaced next year.

I'm sure it will be eventually...

TH
Old 19th November 2009
  #237
Moderator
 
narcoman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kinghand View Post
. And I'm afraid you can't understand my origanal post for that blind test because it's written in Chinese.

what an assumption to make......oh - actually your right! heh
Old 19th November 2009
  #238
Gear Maniac
 
RoyJeeBiv's Avatar
 

coming from an LE user...

it's funny reading some of these 'predictions'...

"More VI's (like Company A)..."
"Blah blah to yadda yadda (like Company B)..."
"Automatic such and such (like Company C)..."
"et al..."

i could care less about all that crap, because i can get all that crap in any other DAW. i don't need anymore VI's, or new features, or another new GUI. there's enough of that already. the only things PT hasn't ripped off from other DAWs are the most sensible -- a freeze function, and non-real-time BTD. (though a decent multiband compressor built-in would be nice...)

rather, they should fix what is lacking in their current hardware. i'd love for something new that can sit between current LE and HD systems. partner with established companies and give us an interface with high quality pres and converters, maybe even DSP cards like nativeaudio suggested. release something affordable where a mod wouldn't be necessary. the marketing isn't as big a deal if the product sells itself.

look at Apogee/Apple, for God's sake...PT can't compete with that if Avid stays the course. they need to partner with at least one quality company for a great interface, de-crippling or not. if the Duet can sell for $495, i don't see what the friggin' problem is.
Old 20th November 2009
  #239
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narcoman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoyJeeBiv View Post
it's funny reading some of these 'predictions'...

"More VI's (like Company A)..."
"Blah blah to yadda yadda (like Company B)..."
"Automatic such and such (like Company C)..."
"et al..."

i could care less about all that crap, because i can get all that crap in any other DAW. i don't need anymore VI's, or new features, or another new GUI. there's enough of that already. the only things PT hasn't ripped off from other DAWs are the most sensible -- a freeze function, and non-real-time BTD. (though a decent multiband compressor built-in would be nice...)

rather, they should fix what is lacking in their current hardware. i'd love for something new that can sit between current LE and HD systems. partner with established companies and give us an interface with high quality pres and converters, maybe even DSP cards like nativeaudio suggested. release something affordable where a mod wouldn't be necessary. the marketing isn't as big a deal if the product sells itself.

look at Apogee/Apple, for God's sake...PT can't compete with that if Avid stays the course. they need to partner with at least one quality company for a great interface, de-crippling or not. if the Duet can sell for $495, i don't see what the friggin' problem is.
you mean all the other DAWs didnt take proper routing and decent timecode implementations from the old rusty PT then? hmmmmmmmm
Old 20th November 2009
  #240
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staudio's Avatar
 

It seems obvious to me is that Digi is going to replace HD hardware some time next year. The recent half price promotion is focused on getting rid of their stock of interfaces and cards. This is classic end of product life business strategy. Get rid of all the soon to be worthless stock and then release a new product family to replace HD and offer some kind of incentive for all the new HD customers to upgrade again to the newer system.
Get them on both upgrade fees from LE to HD and HD to ____.

One thing is for sure, Digi will always have some kind of hardware as part of the package, that is where they make the money, not on the software (however behind the times that model may be, they do not know how to break from it).
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