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Digidesign Pro Tools Next Move Audio Interfaces
Old 15th September 2010
  #1231
Gear Maniac
 
kilroyrock's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by PDC View Post
Heck, if you are waiting on the next Avid release to suddenly heal your recordings and raise your business from the dead, you probably suck and should quit, or use something else that will make you a Lange and Shipley.
My recordings are just fine, I'm just annoyed at how they're marketing their devices, that sure it's capable, but no one can actually use the device to what they're saying it can do. It's insulting to the consumer if you ask me. I hate their mboxes, and I'm not in the market for one either, I just expect more from such a large company, dealing with a semi-pro and pro market.

It's like selling a coconut peeler, that is sharp enough to peel a coconut, but only an apple will fit into the device. why not just say it's an apple peeler in the first place?
Old 15th September 2010
  #1232
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by hipass View Post
Protools Version 9...

IS going to blow you away ....
I hope its not as ugly as version 8
Old 15th September 2010
  #1233
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
I don't think that is the case............the u87--->737--->002/3 is a very popular chain in the R&B/Hip-Hop community. Why would he know that being on pc vs mac has nothing to do with the sound?

u87 2k
737 1.5k
003 1k

I burn 5K so easy now-a-days and is no where rich!

Calm down guys Yeesh!
Really? You're not making a great argument for the rap world. You are saying they only do the popular thing without having any skill or knowledge (i.e. Which sounds better, PC or MAC?).
And frankly, from his original post, he comes off as an arrogant cumfunnel. I don't have any money, and all of my gear combined wouldn't add up to the value of a U87. But I love recording and I manage to mic up a whole band (imagine that- real instruments, not Fruity Loops), and have had pretty good results. So because I can't afford a U87, I shouldn't have PT? It's just software, the same as Sonar, Logic, hell even such lowly low cost apps like REAPER (sarcasm intended). He wants advice? Here's some: get a grip, realize that your sound is only as good as your skills, not because you have a PC or Mac, Pro Tools or Audacity.
Great, my first post is an angry rant. Cheers!
Old 15th September 2010
  #1234
Gear Maniac
 
kilroyrock's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by bifftannen View Post
Really? You're not making a great argument for the rap world. You are saying they only do the popular thing without having any skill or knowledge (i.e. Which sounds better, PC or MAC?).
And frankly, from his original post, he comes off as an arrogant cumfunnel. I don't have any money, and all of my gear combined wouldn't add up to the value of a U87. But I love recording and I manage to mic up a whole band (imagine that- real instruments, not Fruity Loops), and have had pretty good results. So because I can't afford a U87, I shouldn't have PT? It's just software, the same as Sonar, Logic, hell even such lowly low cost apps like REAPER (sarcasm intended). He wants advice? Here's some: get a grip, realize that your sound is only as good as your skills, not because you have a PC or Mac, Pro Tools or Audacity.
Great, my first post is an angry rant. Cheers!
Welcome to Gearslutz!
Old 15th September 2010
  #1235
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattg082 View Post
Yeah but Ableton is more for midi junkies. I went to Logic because protools le was crippled but a big reason why was not the greatest midi work flow for production. Logic is pretty much my studio rig and Ableton serves as my live rig and some times I import into it for automation with the built in fx. I don't think anyone recording a rock band will go for ableton...It's not bad just more of a midi,programing,loops, beats sorta daw and it's designed that way visualy. I think Logic Pro offers a nice middle ground for this and that's why I love it. Protools is just great for what most people do when it comes to recording bands and great real time editing with .wav and I don't see that changing any time soon. A lot of people like to make everything in Logic or ableton then import to protools for all the vocals,guitars,live drums, synths ect. Logic is still the king of midi IMO and Ableton is great in the production arena next to Logic Pro while Protools seems to be the heavy weight of Audio and Editing.
Ableton is becoming much more than that now. I believe they are trying to eliminate competition. The automation is wonderful, that's true. You can edit wavs in real time.... Every DAW has that. The thing that has set PT from others is mostly the way it handles its crossfades and shortcut keys. You don't have to have warp turned on by default, you don't have to have the grid on, and you do have proper and accurate meters in ableton it's just hidden. There is even a spectrometer plugin built in that works well. Also the shortcut keys in Live are quite similar to pro tools for cutting, splicing, etc.

I regularly track guitar, vocals, and synced external hardware in live and i do a lot of rewiring from other pieces of software to audio tracks, sometimes 8-10 tracks at a time. How is that much different than recording a band? The audio editing is pretty much the same.

The only benefit I can see with using pro tools now is in the post production field and video-synch which nuendo does better anyways. I also don't mind Logic, but I don't like the way it handles audio tracks that much. In reality all work, it's just Live has the feature set I want because it has all the features you want/need in a full fledged music DAW with great automation features plus it's a nice sound design tool and has excellent midi functions.
Old 16th September 2010
  #1236
Gear Maniac
 
RoyJeeBiv's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by systematika View Post
The audio editing is pretty much the same.


Quote:
In reality all work, it's just Live has the feature set I want
and that's all anyone needs to know.
Old 16th September 2010
  #1237
Lives for gear
 

To Loujudson,

The inserts on the Mbox Pro are for the 4 mic inputs. They're mainly for tracking, for example if you want to send your mic through a hardware compressor. They route the signal out and back in before hitting the a/d converters.

You can have 8 inputs at the same time, and can choose from any combination of: 4 mic preamps (2 with instrument DI), 4 line inputs (switchable from +4 to +10), 2 rca jacks (for hooking up cassette deck, etc.), 1/8 stereo mini jack (for hooking up Ipod, etc.), and 2 channels of digital Spidf I/O.

This thing appears to be a unit right in between the old Mbox 2 Pro and a 003.
Old 16th September 2010
  #1238
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoyJeeBiv View Post
I'll elaborate. You have cut, erase, split, and sample accurate zooming. That's what you need in a working and professional DAW. The only DAW to my knowledge that does not have sample accurate zooming or even cross fades between clips is FL Studio.


Also people who go to college to take DSP usually learn Max/MSP first. I think down the line this may *really* be a game changer because processing algorithms can get developed more quickly this way and they are going to start offering people to lock and sell their own patches eventually. If they developed a hardware DSP system, or clustering like Apple does with their multimedia products then it all just might be over.
Old 16th September 2010
  #1239
Lives for gear
 
PMoshay's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kilroyrock View Post
so check this out:

"A premium analog signal path and high-performance 24-bit, 192kHz* converters deliver pristine sound."

" And of course, Mbox Pro is designed for ultra-tight integration with the included Pro Tools LE® software"

"* Up to 96 kHz sample rates supported with Pro Tools LE software."

192khz converters that only can do 96hz. They could just make 96hz converters, say they're 192, and you'd never know the difference!

Gotta love marketing.
PTLE does not got to 192, probably because if youre the kind of person that is recording at 192, youre probably not gonna use a M-Box.
Who here records sessions at 192?
can you imagine the file sizes of a pop song done at 192??????
Youd need lots of storage & fast drives to get a 80 track session at 192.

A 24bit / 192k session / Wave files / 24 tracks / 5 minutes long song is 30.90GB - thats alot of data moving back & forth, and its not gonna happen reliably over USB 2 in real time for recording.
and thank goodness that Avid does not try to put unrealistic promises of which your computer may not be able to handle.
Old 16th September 2010
  #1240
Lives for gear
 
T_R_S's Avatar
Avid Pro Tools Next Move

- Protools 9 announcement @ AES possibly shipping late December/early Jan.
Old 16th September 2010
  #1241
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by T_R_S View Post
Avid Pro Tools Next Move

- Protools 9 announcement @ AES possibly shipping late December/early Jan.
Oh I am sure - PT 9 before we even see 8.2
Old 16th September 2010
  #1242
Lives for gear
 

cant wait for the pricing of the VCA equipped versions
Old 16th September 2010
  #1243
Quote:
Originally Posted by PMoshay View Post
PTLE does not got to 192, probably because if youre the kind of person that is recording at 192, youre probably not gonna use a M-Box.
Who here records sessions at 192?
can you imagine the file sizes of a pop song done at 192??????
Youd need lots of storage & fast drives to get a 80 track session at 192.
So true. I've only ever seen archiving sessions done at 192kHz. The idea of a behringer converter retailing for £199 that goes to 192kHz is a clear case of cart before horse.
Old 16th September 2010
  #1244
Lives for gear
 

Digidesign Pro Tools Next Move

Quote:
Originally Posted by lllubi
cant wait for the pricing of the VCA equipped versions
89.95$ more for the option of a fader that controls a group :p
Old 17th September 2010
  #1245
Gear Maniac
 
RoyJeeBiv's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by systematika View Post
I'll elaborate. You have cut, erase, split, and sample accurate zooming. That's what you need in a working and professional DAW.
don't get me wrong, i love Live for composing, but for any editing i can't imagine being w/o PT. if i had to use Live or Logic for radio spots, i'd go absolutely nuts.
Old 17th September 2010
  #1246
Lives for gear
 
Denny McNerney's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by teamyoung012 View Post
But can someone please tell me what I am really missing in the mac world. I only want to improve my sound and how much does it really change coming thru a G5 or higher system because I am really thinking about going back to Mac.

Any suggestions???
going to a mac will definitely improve your sound, especially if you go to a vintage one, like a mac SE-30, because it ran on tubes... you know, for that professional tube sound.

better yet, get a amiga, and a U47.

Old 18th September 2010
  #1247
Deleted User
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denny McNerney View Post
going to a mac will definitely improve your sound, especially if you go to a vintage one, like a mac SE-30, because it ran on tubes... you know, for that professional tube sound.

better yet, get a amiga, and a U47.

LOL HARD hahaha
Old 18th September 2010
  #1248
PDC
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kilroyrock View Post
My recordings are just fine, I'm just annoyed at how they're marketing their devices, that sure it's capable, but no one can actually use the device to what they're saying it can do. It's insulting to the consumer if you ask me. I hate their mboxes, and I'm not in the market for one either, I just expect more from such a large company, dealing with a semi-pro and pro market.

It's like selling a coconut peeler, that is sharp enough to peel a coconut, but only an apple will fit into the device. why not just say it's an apple peeler in the first place?
Just sit tight. There will be an explanation soon. Just because you don't have all of the answers you seek now doesn't mean that there aren't some coming. As amatter of fact, I think people will find that they are asking the wrong questions today.

My point remains. If you can't make a record with what's out there now, it is not the fault of the tools. Some of the best records made were made with much lesser quality tools and much less of them.
Old 18th September 2010
  #1249
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by PDC View Post
I don't think this is nutty at all. It is probably better for them to use converters capable of 192 to do 96, just like most 16 bit converters today are 24 bit and have been for a while.

Why is everyone so cynical?

Heck, if you are waiting on the next Avid release to suddenly heal your recordings and raise your business from the dead, you probably suck and should quit, or use something else that will make you a Lange and Shipley.

That is a bit extreme isn't it?

It is a little like a car manufacturer building a car with 5 seats but only 1 door. For a company that has a huge history of offering proprietary products it comes across as a little strange to me. If you are making hardware for your software... shouldn't the feature set be inclusive?
Old 12th October 2010
  #1250
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by PDC View Post
....My point remains. If you can't make a record with what's out there now, it is not the fault of the tools. Some of the best records made were made with much lesser quality tools and much less of them.
E.G. Blackface ADATs. Yikes. That's a scary time to revisit....trying to lock up 8 Blackfaces, and the sound quality was....well, not stellar.
Old 12th October 2010
  #1251
Lives for gear
 
PMoshay's Avatar
 

Are there really people that believe that you can't make fantastic records with Protools? People slag on 192's, they slag on it being 32bit, they say they can hear the 4 sample delay............. we've been rolling on the floor with some of the comments that are made.

There are so many options out there that if you find yourself convincing yourself that your 192 and PT v8 is holding you back from making hit records, you may wanna spend the money and go see a shrink first.

I HAVE HEARD SO MANY INCREDIBLE RECORDS MADE WITH 5 YEAR OLD TECHNOLOGY.......... CAN YOU BELIEVE IT?????????

I'm totally down with trying the new Digi interfaces........ but i doubt it will make me better, it just may make me happier.......... and i LOVE MY SYSTEM NOW!

Can't wait to hear the difference in the new hardware........ and i'm really excited for all the new & upcoming Digi offerings...........

Now where's my ExpressCard 34 HD system with a 16x16 interface? It's almost Christmas and i've been a good boy.............
Old 19th October 2010
  #1252
Here for the gear
 
Rob_Rose's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia View Post
Obviously, I have no inside information but I got into an interesting
conversation the other day with a friend and we were really puzzled by
what could or should be Digidesign's next move.

With Logic 8 and now 9, Apple has clearly tried to do what they did with
Final Cut Pro and even what Microsoft did to Netscape back in the day…

Make the software cheap enough that their competitors couldn't stay in
business. Squeeze 'em out. Years ago this wouldn't have mattered as a
native system couldn't really keep up. But the gap has certainly narrowed
dramatically these days.

Now Digidesign is in the Native game too but do they really want to be?
That's a game they can't control. Is Pro Tools LE really better than Logic?



And Digidesign built it's reputation as being the standard, but as more and
more novices jump into the water (and they are at an alarming rate) that
could and probably will change. Which means Pro Tools feature set will have
to keep up with all other software as the "studio standard" badge they've
been wearing for so long will no longer be a selling point.

For now, the HD systems will still be home for the situations where budget
is not an issue. If you're doing post for a $350 million dollar movie, do you
care about blowing 30k on a system? Probably not. So Digidesign can probably
hold these clients as an HD9 system running on a Mac Pro 8 core will still kick
any native system's butt.

And at it's price point, Pro Tools LE is still in the game. With just about any
level of native system you can afford, being available. So they can "compete"
there. But can they "dominate"?

Where they are really getting squeezed is in the middle. The HD users who are
quite happy with their system but can't afford to buy another 8k -15k system.
But they may have to. Or switch.

Why? Snow Leopard. Snow Leopard is the new Mac OS and it's Mac Intel-only.
So if you have a PPC Mac, you're left out. Not the biggest problem for the LE
user. Sell your computer and get a newer one. ($2,500 minus what you sell
your older one for). But for the HD user, who is still using a Mac G5 because
it has PCI slots (instead of PCIe cards), you have to buy a new computer plus
get a crossgrade for all your cards. (about $5,000 more for an HD 3 owner like me).

And Digidesign has announced that they are no longer supporting PPC macs in
their next major software update. I assume because they don't want to write
code for Snow Leopard and old Leopard. Can't blame them. It's Apple that keeps
changing their OS quicker than the animals they keep naming them after. :•)

So a major part of their core user base will have to make the decision:
(I say "core" because this is the base that made them the "studio standard".)

1. Spend 3 times as much as a Native user to upgrade and keep current with
little extra benefit.
2. Stick with your older machine and hope that Pro Tools 9 isn't something that
you really need, as you watch the Mbox guys get to use it for a $99 upgrade price.
3. Make the switch to a Native system and cash in those cards to buy a Mac Pro 8
core and pocket the difference.

It's an interesting time in the DAW world with programs like Reaper also changing
the game. I don't envy Digidesign's place in this game at this point.

Although they could always WOW us with something new. It wouldn't be the first time.

Cheers.
I have found the PCI solution to be great for many clients, I believe it does run faster than Logic. However, in the end, it really has to do with user preference in terms of system comfort and ones knowledge base. When we are talking about ms latency issues and such.
At best, it's a matter of opinion. Not really aboout facts and figures.
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