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Digidesign Pro Tools Next Move Audio Interfaces
Old 19th August 2010
  #1171
Lives for gear
 

Been away for a week or two...

What just happened?
Old 19th August 2010
  #1172
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by nativeaudio View Post

Originally Posted by joeq View Post
Why don't they just get logic/nuendo/DP and a new multi-core machine and a multi-input interface and get on with their lives?
Many did that already.
heh

They may have gotten a native system up and running, but judging from the intensely sulfurous posts I read here, a lot of them seem to be having difficulty with the "getting on with their lives" part.
Old 19th August 2010
  #1173
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tuRnitUpsuM's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avening View Post
You know what?

You're right.

Screw my HD2 Rig and my old crappy cards. I mean, it's "old" technology.

And the studio that I work out of ... they should scrap the 3 HD5 rigs, and 2 HD3 rigs they have, that have been delivering rock solid performance for the good part of a decade. Old crap that stuff is anyways. There's faster processors and laptops now! They should get with the times.

What we REALLY want is to join the rat race of upgrading our computers every six months as new "better/faster" technology becomes available. (Faster processors and exorbitant track counts equal better records, right?) We love dealing with compatibility issues between those new computers, our 20+ converter boxes, plug-ins, waiting for software revisions and most importantly: down-time. Christ, we don't ever do any work anyways, so what would be the harm in adding this scenario to pile? Especially since business is just pouring in the door. Plus, all the extra money we have laying around to put towards this new technology, and its constant upkeep. Just business expenses I guess. Par for the course in the booming professional recording studio business in 2010.

So explain to me why in the HELL this factitious scenario would ever work for a commercial recording studio in 2010? Because this type of establishment is what ProTools HD is designed for. Why is this so hard to understand?

"Old technology", and "crappy cards" ... who cares?!!! they work!!! And now Avid threw in some more options for this NICHE MARKET, not the pro-sumer market, not the project studio market, not the bedroom engineer market, but the commercial/professional market.

Don't get me wrong, I do hope things like ADC are included in the LE update when it comes. I also hope there are a few more great hardware choices as well, but this whole BS of Native HD, blah blah blah, and this overwhelming sense of entitlement from a completely unrelated market segment (no matter the market share) is just ridiculous! All I see is page after page of flack from this market segment. Where are the postings from the 5 room commercial facilities saying that after they've spent hundreds of thousands on this old (extremely reliable, and great sounding) technology, they want HD native and to deal with the outlined BS I stated above? That they want to have their laptops on top of their SSL J consoles, tracking Lady Gaga through a Firewire connection, with their reputations on the line? I'm sorry, I just have no sympathy.

As stated, hopefully the LE update addresses some of the issues facing the project/small studio market, but IMO Avid did the right thing here supporting this market segment.

Edwards: not picking on you directly, but there were echos of other posts in yours. Don't mean to be antagonistic or rude
You do realise there are other segments of the markets that would like to enjoy the benefits a DSP powered HD rig would offer right? You also realise that this small niche market that for the past umpteen years have had to put up with an LE rig, does not need the massive I/Os a large commercial facility requires. Their needs can be met quite easily with an Omni and a means to get that interface connected to an Avid DSP unit but most importantly to a Mobile computer. What all this does not mean , is this "small niche market" (in quotes because its a market that has grown over the last 20 years more than any other segment) wishes you to lose your abilities to use and enjoy your HD rigs you;ve been enjoying all these years or not be offered upgrade paths yourself.

Some have just wanted a way in that made sense (like what Apogee have done...cater to both the fixed and the mobile studio). Avid could come up with an HD card built into an Expresscard interface.... ala UAD2 solo (connected to their new HD line via digilink-mini digilink). Obviously less DSP , but you know something not everyone needs the power of an HD card. Just some help for I/O and latency and maybe some bulkload help with PT 8 specific effects like HEAT. The rest can be RTAS. Who wouldn;t like a setup used for low-channel count tracking sessions they could advertise as a FULL-BLOWN HD RIG ?. I want something like this, and i can assure you i wish you no ill-will about your HD5 rigs... i hope you can make 'em work another 10 years.

I dont need an HD2-3-4-5- rig (and im sure im not alone)... therefore ive been subjected to buy LE or dont use ProTools... for 10 years ive opted not to use ProTools.... Avids just gotta help me out here alittle. All the other companies seem to want to. Or is the scare really about your stock in the advert of "HD rig" ? **** can you imagine what the people would think if the guy down the street in his basement can advertise an HD rig too just like mine ! on a ****ing laptop !!!! sacrilegious!!!

i thought HD stood for High Definition and not " Spend as much as i have or **** off" ??

Its so hard to understand because for the last decade + Protools in your market segment have been an "Industry Standard" a shooting point for others..... 2010 !! not time yet to broaden some horizons while keeping intact this market segment ???? this isnt the growing segment it once was.
Old 19th August 2010
  #1174
Gear Maniac
 

I freelance for various HD post houses in the Atlanta area and have an LE rig at home for work that can be taken home and all that stuff.

For people who work alone, the options are pretty vast for choosing the DAW you interface with. For those of us who take sessions around, chances are PT is what most places have.

I am really interested in the Omni, I guess just because it seems like the most focused product for where I'm at. I don't have a big enough financial incentive to spend $12 to 15k on a DAW only. But the $3k price range really starts to reach into the 003 Complete Toolkit territory, especially if there is a potential for an HD native option.

The options are simply sweet for home post work -- 7.1 mixing, the ability to use the box without computer on means I can easily route other sources through my speakers without a patch session, a few high quality pres for foley and voice recording, and a little room for expansion if my needs expand over time.

Maybe some others don't have the needs that fit some of the product announcements -- but chances are there are already ProTools rigs out there that fill those needs.

I'm very excited to see the new targeted interface options. It could have to do heavily with the fact that I am right in the crosshairs for where the Omni is targeted and others just aren't. I duno. But I'm happy to see an expanding variety of ways to get to the software that I'm going to be using for the foreseeable future.

Cheers!
Old 19th August 2010
  #1175
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nativeaudio's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq View Post
heh

They may have gotten a native system up and running, but judging from the intensely sulfurous posts I read here, a lot of them seem to be having difficulty with the "getting on with their lives" part.
I don't think that most people who have moved on from PT to something else bother much to participate in these discussions. And from what I've seen on this forum, the bashing goes in all directions - eg. there has been a lot of Logic bashing from Pro Tools users (specially before L9 was out)... the interesting part that a substantial amount of the criticism against Logic was based on assumptions about features these PT users simply assumed that Logic didn't have (especially after L9 was out) - eg. because they were called something else in Logic, or were implemented in a slightly different way than they were in PT.

At least the skepticism against PT usually (but not always) has been based on real issues, like lack of ADC in the LE version, overpriced-ness and so on. But of course, getting on with our lives sounds like good thing - which we probably all should practice more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq View Post
for whatever reason, digi/avid/pro tools is the company people Love to Hate...
But why?

While some of the bashing against Logic pre Logic 9 actually was rooted in real shortcomings (lack of track import/beat detective/elastic time/multi-tools etc), there's also an actual reason that the general feeling about Digi/Avid has changed from general enthusiasm or even envy (the first years after TDM was introduced) to what it is today. The new interfaces may not change that much - because Avid is still milking the DSP card cow and still charge as much as they can for these cards. The day these interfaces (or an updated version of them) can be connected to a $500 PCIe card, an Express card, USB3, Ethernet, Light Peak, Firewire 3200 or something else, things will change, which is good for all of us, because then all existing, native DAWs have a new, real, rival.
Old 19th August 2010
  #1176
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by nativeaudio View Post
I don't think that most people who have moved on from PT to something else bother much to participate in these discussions.
wait, are we both on the same Gearslutz? heh


Quote:
And from what I've seen on this forum, the bashing goes in all directions - eg. there has been a lot of Logic bashing from Pro Tools users (specially before L9 was out).
There is a difference between criticizing a software, and HATING a software. Though some don't want to use it, nobody really HATES Logic.

If I put up the following clue:

"_______ bashing"

90% of Gearslutz would put "Pro Tools" or "Digi" or "Avid" in the blank because that's how it is around here. A few might put in 'male' 'phone' or 'gay'. No one would put in "Logic"

again, parallel universes is my only explanation
Old 19th August 2010
  #1177
Gear Guru
 
u b k's Avatar
 

I hate to prove joeq's point, but this week I've had the distinct displeasure of having to

a) purchase

b) download

c) install, and

d) authorize

a Pro Tools LE workstation on my computer, and after all that I had to

e) get it to work.


Every single one of those steps was an infuriating exercise in corporate inanity, some kind of Kafka-esque nightmare that I'm not yet awakened from because 'e' is still a fail, I can't for the life of me get the thing to work and I'm a very smart man who's spent hours a say on it for days in a row.

I don't think in all my years on this forum I've ever invoked the word hate, but that fairly well sums up my feelings for the company that created this software and the website experience that purports to deliver it.

Knowing me, though, I will complain for about a month, go silent on the matter for roughly two years, and then, in an abrupt turn of events, will chime in with a new thread and declare it's the most amazing thing to ever happen to my art.


Gregory Scott - ubk
Old 19th August 2010
  #1178
Lives for gear
 
Suda Badri's Avatar
 

Yeah Pro Tools is a Hate first/Love later thing... I really miss it now that I am on cubase...
Old 19th August 2010
  #1179
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq View Post
Now if you will excuse me, I have to go over to the Porsche forum and complain that they aren't making new 918 Spyder hybrids that sell for the same price as a Kia.
That would be an excellent and clever analogy if Digi Hardware was the Porche of the industry........

Leave the Porche comparisons to Mytek, Cranesong, etc..... Hell, even Apogee or Lynx.

192 HD?? Maybe Lexus, at best. Probably Acura though, really.
Old 19th August 2010
  #1180
Quote:
Originally Posted by soundrick View Post
That would be an excellent and clever analogy if Digi Hardware was the Porche of the industry........

Leave the Porche comparisons to Mytek, Cranesong, etc..... Hell, even Apogee or Lynx.

192 HD?? Maybe Lexus, at best. Probably Acura though, really.

I'm not in the market to buy one, but how can you say this without hearing it, or have you heard it? If so do elaborate....
Old 19th August 2010
  #1181
I think it's funny that Gearslutz is just a place to complain. I've been guilty of the myself at times.

People just like to bitch about things. Before this stuff was announced, everyone was complaining about how much Digidesign sucks because they haven't release new interfaces in 9 years and they sound bad compared to other converters.

Now that they've finally changed that, it's complain time again. Not trying to be an Avid fanboy...I'm just saying they could release a product that is native, with zero latency, costs $5, has the most analog sounding plugins, and the best features available, and people would still bitch that it doesn't give them a BJ.

But alas, that's what the internet is for right?
(remembering that scene in Jay and Silent Bob Strike back when J & B visit Holden and find out about the internet and Movie Poop Shoot . com)
Old 19th August 2010
  #1182
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by glitchfactor View Post
I think it's funny that Gearslutz is just a place to complain. I've been guilty of the myself at times.

People just like to bitch about things. Before this stuff was announced, everyone was complaining about how much Digidesign sucks because they haven't release new interfaces in 9 years and they sound bad compared to other converters.

Now that they've finally changed that, it's complain time again. Not trying to be an Avid fanboy...I'm just saying they could release a product that is native, with zero latency, costs $5, has the most analog sounding plugins, and the best features available, and people would still bitch that it doesn't give them a BJ.

But alas, that's what the internet is for right?
(remembering that scene in Jay and Silent Bob Strike back when J & B visit Holden and find out about the internet and Movie Poop Shoot . com)
I don't know what you talking about but Logic Pro gives me a BJ She's not a gold digger like protools.
Old 19th August 2010
  #1183
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattg082 View Post
I don't know what you talking about but Logic Pro gives me a BJ She's not a gold digger like protools.
Oh really?
Apple-Macs come free with Logic now.. do they?
Just another honey trap
Old 19th August 2010
  #1184
Lives for gear
 
Cursed Lemon's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by glitchfactor View Post
I think it's funny that Gearslutz is just a place to complain. I've been guilty of the myself at times.

People just like to bitch about things. Before this stuff was announced, everyone was complaining about how much Digidesign sucks because they haven't release new interfaces in 9 years and they sound bad compared to other converters.

Now that they've finally changed that, it's complain time again. Not trying to be an Avid fanboy...I'm just saying they could release a product that is native, with zero latency, costs $5, has the most analog sounding plugins, and the best features available, and people would still bitch that it doesn't give them a BJ.

But alas, that's what the internet is for right?
(remembering that scene in Jay and Silent Bob Strike back when J & B visit Holden and find out about the internet and Movie Poop Shoot . com)
Your mistake is assuming that every person is bitching about the same thing.

Some people bitched because they didn't like the sound of the HD i/os, some people bitch because they're proprietary, and some people bitched because of the 16x8 thing.
Old 19th August 2010
  #1185
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Macky View Post
Oh really?
Apple-Macs come free with Logic now.. do they?
Just another honey trap
heh
Old 19th August 2010
  #1186
Digidesign Pro Tools Next Move

Delete post pls.

Reason: I'm taking the foot out of my mouth
Old 19th August 2010
  #1187
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cursed Lemon View Post
Your mistake is assuming that every person is bitching about the same thing.
Your mistake is assuming that I assumed that. I didn't ever say that in my post. In fact I completely agree with you. People are nitpicking the hell out of it, and complaining about every little part of the HD hardware.

I honestly don't even understand the point of why you are responding to my post. Is there a purpose? Or is that supposed to be funny because you are complaining about my complaint about complaining!
Old 19th August 2010
  #1188
Gear Head
 
mtnman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by glitchfactor View Post
Or is that supposed to be funny because you are complaining about my complaint about complaining!
I thought that is exactly what gs is for? Isn't it a given? Why can't you guys be more clear!
Old 19th August 2010
  #1189
Gear Addict
 
topperf's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mtnman View Post
I thought that is exactly what gs is for? Isn't it a given? Why can't you guys be more clear!
GS is for Gearslutz my friend.
Old 19th August 2010
  #1190
Gear Addict
 
topperf's Avatar
 

.. or maybe Greeks suck? nahh..
Old 19th August 2010
  #1191
Gear Head
 
mtnman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by topperf View Post
GS is for Gearslutz my friend.
Oh the irony, that you didn't distinguish that I was complaining about the complaint about the complainer who was complaining about the complaining...instead of chatter about the new hardware's benefits for current/future PTHD users.

I'm very curious to see if this "Native" blip at SW really is coming at some point down the road. For me, an HD Omni + express card type (or other mobile) connection + laptop would immediately make my cash move. Give me that and Eucon/Artist Series support in PT and I'm in - albeit as a "boy" since I'm choosing to spend my cash elsewhere.
Old 20th August 2010
  #1192
Lives for gear
 
tuRnitUpsuM's Avatar
 



OR



+



(obviously not a UA card but Avids own expresscard HD core implementation with about 1/3 the DSP chips than a regular HD core/Accel card)

+



+




Nice no? big step up from an LE offering and not so quite as elaborate as a full blown HD rig in a commercial setting.

a True middle ground with room for growth. Its mobile, offers direct compatibility with Studios running PTHD and is in the ballpark price wise to a MH ULN8 or PrismSound Orpheus or Apogee I/O. When all things considered and is said and done. (Total cost of Ownership after everything that is needed is bought and connected).
Old 20th August 2010
  #1193
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tuRnitUpsuM View Post


OR



+



(obviously not a UA card but Avids own expresscard HD core implementation with about 1/3 the DSP chips than a regular HD core/Accel card)





+




Nice no? big step up from an LE offering and not so quite as elaborate as a full blown HD rig in a commercial setting.

a True middle ground with room for growth. Its mobile, offers direct compatibility with Studios running PTHD and is in the ballpark price wise to a MH ULN8 or PrismSound Orpheus or Apogee I/O. When all things considered and is said and done. (Total cost of Ownership after everything that is needed is bought and connected).

This is nowhere the equivalent of a mb pro / logic / uln-8 rig.

First of all most MB Pros these days don´t have an express card slot
and nobody will buy a new mac book to get PT HD native.

Second the ULN-8 includes 8 REALLY good mic pres with
a REALLY good converter. No one knows how good the OMNI
converter is but as long as the two mic pres are the same like
in their PRE they are just average and not high end.

Third no travelling recordist will be satisfied with 8 I/Os (OMNI has NO 8 AES inputs and seems to be restricted to 1 unit) -
we need at least 16 channels without being forced to buy stuff like
average mic pres and monitor controllers.

One word about post pro studios -
all which post studios need these days is one or two of neumann´s digital mics
+ a monitor controller.

I need a native hd where I can connect whatever converter
I want per firewire / high speed ethernet
and I´m ready to pay a price like between 1 and 2 k for it.
So digi PLEASE DO change you thinking finally !!
Old 20th August 2010
  #1194
HD Native in 6 months time.
Old 20th August 2010
  #1195
MKM
Gear Head
 
MKM's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by anguswoodhead View Post
HD Native in 6 months time.
Prediction/ wishful thinking OR statement? If the latter, source please.
Old 20th August 2010
  #1196
Lives for gear
 
tuRnitUpsuM's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaman View Post
This is nowhere the equivalent of a mb pro / logic / uln-8 rig.

First of all most MB Pros these days don´t have an express card slot
and nobody will buy a new mac book to get PT HD native.

Second the ULN-8 includes 8 REALLY good mic pres with
a REALLY good converter. No one knows how good the OMNI
converter is but as long as the two mic pres are the same like
in their PRE they are just average and not high end.

Third no travelling recordist will be satisfied with 8 I/Os (OMNI has NO 8 AES inputs and seems to be restricted to 1 unit) -
we need at least 16 channels without being forced to buy stuff like
average mic pres and monitor controllers.

One word about post pro studios -
all which post studios need these days is one or two of neumann´s digital mics
+ a monitor controller.

I need a native hd where I can connect whatever converter
I want per firewire / high speed ethernet
and I´m ready to pay a price like between 1 and 2 k for it.
So digi PLEASE DO change you thinking finally !!
Hi Shaman,

I get what your saying, but wasn't comparing them on sound quality nor functionality. Not too many people from what i know have actually gotten to use the Omni aside from beta and the others do have alot more in terms of micamps etc. But if someone were looking for a portable HD rig and needed to stay ProTools.... this is the rig that is closest to what the competition are offering price-wise. Remember the Omni is $3000 and the ULN8 is $6000, the Apogee I/O with appropriate cards is pretty close to $6000 (8i/o + micamp card), and the Orpheus is about $4500.

Alot of people have also not upgraded their Macs yet to see what was gonna pan out - im not sure about Apples trade-in program (do they have one?) for instance trading in a newly bought 15" MBP for a 17" with expresscard and just pay the differences etc. (IMHO - any computer deemed at a Professional level should have more connectors than you can shake a stick at - which is why ive avoided Apple this long - wake up Apple!...Thinkpads have expresscard and 2x USB 3.0 already!). i digress.

I heard up to 2 Omnis can be ganged together ...but that's something i'm not sure about so grain of salt there. But if were true... thats 16 i/o. There is also 8 AES outputs on Dsub.... just not 8 ins/ limited to 2 AES inputs. Theres ADAT so 8 channel outboard unit is still a go.

Really the only downside in my humble opinion comparing to previous Digi/Avid entry level HD offerings is.... this unit still connects to a PCI/PCIe card which isnt a good solution for mobile work. Me personally, money is money - spend what you have to to get what you need/want. But having to fork over another $1000 just for a PCIe expansion box (which i dont think Avid even supports with the cards any longer) which only adds weight to the rig, takes up space and requires power...while adding nothing soundwise except allowing the connection of the interface to the Avid DSP card.

PTHD is about a DSP environment... if it were native it wouldnt be HD any longer would it? it would be unrestricted LE. If they make it hybrid... whereby you can use more of your CPU for bulkload processing..that would be great ! but you;d still need something from Avid with DSP processing to consider it HD and take advantage of what made HD popular to begin with.

cheers
Old 20th August 2010
  #1197
Lives for gear
 

[QUOTE=Shaman;5704784
I need a native hd where I can connect whatever converter
I want per firewire / high speed ethernet
and I´m ready to pay a price like between 1 and 2 k for it.
So digi PLEASE DO change you thinking finally !![/QUOTE]

Complete Production Toolkit is still about 1500€
i expect it more in the 3K region
Old 20th August 2010
  #1198
Gear Head
 
mtnman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tuRnitUpsuM View Post
I heard up to 2 Omnis can be ganged together ...but that's something i'm not sure about so grain of salt there. But if were true... thats 16 i/o.
Well, if you read the HD Omni Guide it says only ONE Omni can be connected at a time.

Quote:
You can add additional Pro Tools|HD audio interfaces
to your Pro Tools|HD system using the
Expansion port on the back of HD OMNI or using
additional Pro Tools|HD cards. However,
Pro Tools supports only one HD OMNI in a single
Pro Tools|HD system.
Old 20th August 2010
  #1199
Lives for gear
 
tuRnitUpsuM's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mtnman View Post
Well, if you read the HD Omni Guide it says only ONE Omni can be connected at a time.
the "not so sure"...i guess was a hope that wasnt fulfilled.
Still something on my radar as i rarely need more than 8 channels in...if i need more ill live mix to a stereo feed. Kinda hoping ticked a few more boxes for Shaman though... maybe Avid needed some way of limiting its users? one way or another they'll find a way

Cheers mtnman
Old 20th August 2010
  #1200
Lives for gear
 
tuRnitUpsuM's Avatar
 

If Protools only supports ONE Omni in a single Card system... and knowing that users who need 2 cards or more would probably pick up the 8x8x8 or 16x16 or the MADI or most likely the Digital HD interface instead.... why place two ports on there??

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