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Digidesign Pro Tools Next Move Audio Interfaces
Old 18th August 2010
  #1141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edwards View Post
Avid's shortsightedness just made an epic fail.
I had been waiting for a Native HD too...

If the OMNI could connect to my Macbook Pro via Firewire 800 and use PTHD, then I would have brought one to replace my Mbox/Alpha Channel in my songwriting/overdub rig. But Avid had to stick with FRICKIN' CARDS!!!

Screw that. I'm going to use Reaper with the professional nterface of my choice. Avid lost my business for good by thinking Pros don't want an HD Native. I do and I'd be willing to buy an interface like omni if I could have had it.
You know what?

You're right.

Screw my HD2 Rig and my old crappy cards. I mean, it's "old" technology.

And the studio that I work out of ... they should scrap the 3 HD5 rigs, and 2 HD3 rigs they have, that have been delivering rock solid performance for the good part of a decade. Old crap that stuff is anyways. There's faster processors and laptops now! They should get with the times.

What we REALLY want is to join the rat race of upgrading our computers every six months as new "better/faster" technology becomes available. (Faster processors and exorbitant track counts equal better records, right?) We love dealing with compatibility issues between those new computers, our 20+ converter boxes, plug-ins, waiting for software revisions and most importantly: down-time. Christ, we don't ever do any work anyways, so what would be the harm in adding this scenario to pile? Especially since business is just pouring in the door. Plus, all the extra money we have laying around to put towards this new technology, and its constant upkeep. Just business expenses I guess. Par for the course in the booming professional recording studio business in 2010.

So explain to me why in the HELL this factitious scenario would ever work for a commercial recording studio in 2010? Because this type of establishment is what ProTools HD is designed for. Why is this so hard to understand?

"Old technology", and "crappy cards" ... who cares?!!! they work!!! And now Avid threw in some more options for this NICHE MARKET, not the pro-sumer market, not the project studio market, not the bedroom engineer market, but the commercial/professional market.

Don't get me wrong, I do hope things like ADC are included in the LE update when it comes. I also hope there are a few more great hardware choices as well, but this whole BS of Native HD, blah blah blah, and this overwhelming sense of entitlement from a completely unrelated market segment (no matter the market share) is just ridiculous! All I see is page after page of flack from this market segment. Where are the postings from the 5 room commercial facilities saying that after they've spent hundreds of thousands on this old (extremely reliable, and great sounding) technology, they want HD native and to deal with the outlined BS I stated above? That they want to have their laptops on top of their SSL J consoles, tracking Lady Gaga through a Firewire connection, with their reputations on the line? I'm sorry, I just have no sympathy.

As stated, hopefully the LE update addresses some of the issues facing the project/small studio market, but IMO Avid did the right thing here supporting this market segment.

Edwards: not picking on you directly, but there were echos of other posts in yours. Don't mean to be antagonistic or rude
Old 18th August 2010
  #1142
So I guess the only question left for the PT cheerleading crew:

Did you already buy the new i/o? If not, then why the hell not? I mean, it's obviously such a great product. I'm guessing probably because your current system already gives you everything you need. Well... same here, so I guess NEITHER OF US will be buying.

Who is this product for again? The cards are what create the biggest barrier for new customers. Yay, affordable new i/o that sells cheaper than the flimsy card you plug it into. Brilliant.
Old 18th August 2010
  #1143
Lee
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Lee's Avatar
I think this is what you guys were looking for...


Avid | Pro Tools|HD
Old 18th August 2010
  #1144
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveE View Post
Who is this product for again?
Clearly not you.

Why the animosity?
Old 18th August 2010
  #1145
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee View Post
I think this is what you guys were looking for...


Avid | Pro Tools|HD
Errr..don't quite get the point of posting this link again?! or am I missing some wry humour...?
Old 18th August 2010
  #1146
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noah440's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by drew View Post
The part I don't get is the weird emotional attitudes toward a corporate entity that so many of you guys have. It's strange.

I've had the same DAW for 7 years (original HD3 with a D Command) and I happen to like the way PT does most things. This rig has paid for itself over and over, about every 4-6 weeks in fact. I've tried DP and I am currently learning Reaper and Logic in my spare time (yeah right). The minute I find something that I like better, that does everything I need it to do, I'm there, DONE. And if it's cheaper great, if not I'll pay it if it's worth it to me.

But what I won't and don't do is waste my time posting vitriol about companies and products that I don't like or who have not met my expectations. For example, I more or less cannot stand everything Tascam and Yamaha make. I think they do some great engineering but everything, ergonomically speaking, seems designed by a guy in a lab coat. Do I go around posting this whenever and wherever people are discussing their products? Of course not, that would be silly. I vote with my dollars, period, and therefore do not own anything they make.

BTW, the jackasses that think PTHD is for "pros" and that the haters just can't afford it, are more annoying than the bashers. People are doing awesome work on every DAW out there. But for me, there simply isn't anything out there that replicates what my 7 year old DAW does for me.

Now carry on wasting those precious hours!!!! heh

Wonderfully said. We see this so much with Apple (and many other companies). I don't get corporate allegiance at all -- it's the same thing as not admitting that anything is wrong with the U.S. President that you voted for. It's pure ego/emotion, and makes little rational sense. These are corporations, not close friends.

There are things I love about PT, but I mostly use Cubase. Every DAW has its faults and its advantages, and anyone who can't make good music on any DAW simply needs to work on their chops. I made huge sounding music that I still hear a lot on TV to this day on my old Mac with Digital Performer and their crappy audio interface over 8 years ago! heh
Old 18th August 2010
  #1147
Quote:
Originally Posted by zakco View Post
Clearly not you.

Why the animosity?
Are you buying the new i/o? If not, then clearly not you either. I have no animosity whatsoever-- I'm just frustrated with this company because I do love the software. If I have 10k to spend there's not much incentive to choose PT in 2010.
Old 18th August 2010
  #1148
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by CeretoneAudio View Post
Fast forward 12 months and there will be an HD OMNI in every single audio post/ edit/ sounddesign/ foley/ media composer room round the world. (BTW that is ALOT of rooms)

How is that unfocussed?
Right on the mark !! There are 4 x HD3 systems (on G5's or Intels) and 5 x LE with DV Tolkits using M Box 2 Pro at my studio.... And I know at least 5 other freelance sound designers / editors with same LE setup doing business, making money..who will be in the market for HD OMNI.
Old 18th August 2010
  #1149
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveE View Post
Are you buying the new i/o? If not, then clearly not you either. I have no animosity whatsoever-- I'm just frustrated with this company because I do love the software. If I have 10k to spend there's not much incentive to choose PT in 2010.
These interfaces are to bring new people who are currently not using HD into the fold. No one I know with an HD setup is selling his rig to jump on this, I can't believe that was their intention.

the POINT of buying HD is the longevity of the system. The cards are the key to that - not some 'side' thing that was put there to bug you.

Sure, it's still computer crap, but it has a much better half-life than almost any other computer crap. Not quite like buying a mic that you will own forever, but way better IMO to own the cards and not be waiting outside the Apple store every day with your nose pressed against the glass wondering when the new towers with more cores are coming.



As you look over the thread you will see many HD owners expressing their satisfaction at this aspect of the product. Not only the 'pays for itself' aspect but the 'it just works' aspect. I have some Nuendo friends who jump on a new computer every six months (well it sure seems that way heh) I bought my HD 7 years ago and changed computers once. How much are they "saving" over me?
Old 18th August 2010
  #1150
Lives for gear
 

Those new computers are now a lot more powerful than your hd7. Times have changed. And Avid failed to keep up.
Old 18th August 2010
  #1151
Digidesign Pro Tools Next Move

Not true.

You can still open a 10year old pt-projects in a 8.x pt environement. Try this with cubase/samplitude or whatever there is.

I want a protools hd native so i can import sessions from the "big studios" and extract the waves. Thanks.
Old 18th August 2010
  #1152
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by spicemix View Post
Those new computers are now a lot more powerful than your hd7. Times have changed. And Avid failed to keep up.
My system does everything I ask of it. I feel no urge to upgrade, but if I did, I would get one of these new computers and stick my cards in it and I would still end up with something more powerful than the computer native alone. All computer crap is a bad investment, IMO HD is a little less of a bad investment.

If times have changed so much, and Avid has failed so badly to keep up, why are all these folks still lusting after an HD system and sour-grapesing every day about how much it costs?

Why don't they just get logic/nuendo/DP and a new multi-core machine and a multi-input interface and get on with their lives?

The vitriol simply would not exist if the HD product was as clearly inferior as they claim.
Old 18th August 2010
  #1153
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I did switch to Logic. Not exactly easy transition but it worked. Mostly.

Anyway Sweetwater just leaked Pro Tools HD Native is supported in v 8.1. This will be the dsp-free pci digilink card and will replace hd tdm. So that argument will be obsolete by AES. Of course lynx is the one who stands to clean up as a result of this development...barring yet newer interface offerings from M-Audio (who designed these).
Old 18th August 2010
  #1154
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq View Post
If times have changed so much, and Avid has failed so badly to keep up, why are all these folks still lusting after an HD system and sour-grapesing every day about how much it costs?

Why don't they just get logic/nuendo/DP and a new multi-core machine and a multi-input interface and get on with their lives?

The vitriol simply would not exist if the HD product was as clearly inferior as they claim.
Because it's the industry standard. If Avid gives us HD Native then nobody will be complaining. That's it. You guys who love your PCI cards are happy and the people who don't see the need for them are happy. Its such a simple solution.
Old 18th August 2010
  #1155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DP40oz View Post
Because it's the industry standard. If Avid gives us HD Native then nobody will be complaining. That's it. You guys who love your PCI cards are happy and the people who don't see the need for them are happy. Its such a simple solution.
I reserve the right to complain all I want about hd native.

I see plenty of protectionist impulses in this new interface line and I'm sure they haven't forsaken crippleware just yet.
Old 18th August 2010
  #1156
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InTheBox's Avatar
A few questions:

1) Will the Omni work alongside my 192 in PTHD 7.3.1 ?

2) Will HEAT work in 7.3.1

3) Will 8.1 work on my MAC PPC Dual 2.3 OS 10.4.11 with 192 I/O

Does anyone have the answer to this ?

Send in the nerds..

Thanks

-Box
Old 18th August 2010
  #1157
Lives for gear
 

No no and no
Old 18th August 2010
  #1158
Gear Addict
 
InTheBox's Avatar
So I feared...

-Box
Old 18th August 2010
  #1159
Gear Nut
 
AnalogueRazor's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tuRnitUpsuM View Post
No one at Avid pictured the Omni underneath a suitable Laptop running PTHD 8 ?? or did they? 2 chip HD card fitted onto an expresscard style unit (I/O - whatever else is left of the DSP + RTAS for rest). ???

it could be Orpheus vs ULN8 vs Omni in this segment of people who would like to be light - can get by with well below 16 inputs - yet wish to offer clients "uncompromised" sound quality. (obviously going on specs for the Omni)

People need to remember some of the earliest and most interesting of all the recordings in the 20th century were done on the road. Think Alan Lomax. Now imagine giving the next Alan Lomax a Professional Studio in a duffel bag. So they can not only discover incredible acts almost lost and forgotten...but do it in a manner which represents the very best of technologies relating to Audio. Metric Halo and Prism Sound are trying... Avid are you?

Some of the great Natural sounding spaces in the world need to be accessed by great sounding gear. With mega big Studios falling by the waist side... one day "hunting down" incredible natural spaces will be the only viable option to replicate wonderful room/space reverberations (instead of building them).

guess just thinking out loud as usual...

+1 exactly what I was thinking thumbsup
Old 18th August 2010
  #1160
Gear Guru
 
Kenny Gioia's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by InTheBox View Post
A few questions:

1) Will the Omni work alongside my 192 in PTHD 7.3.1 ?

2) Will HEAT work in 7.3.1

3) Will 8.1 work on my MAC PPC Dual 2.3 OS 10.4.11 with 192 I/O

Does anyone have the answer to this ?

Send in the nerds..

Thanks

-Box
Don't need a nerd for this. There's no chance in hell that any of that will work. Not even close.
Old 18th August 2010
  #1161
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DP40oz View Post
Because it's the industry standard. If Avid gives us HD Native then nobody will be complaining.
if Avid did give you HD native, fewer would buy their cards. Why would they do that? other than to make your day, I mean. Avid is in the hardware business. Their software is the bait. Maybe that sucks but can you honestly blame them? They are a business- they don't want your 'lack of complaints'- they want your money.

Anyway I keep reading from all the Native guys that whole industry standard thing is a "myth".



Quote:
Originally Posted by spicemix
I see plenty of protectionist impulses in this new interface line and I'm sure they haven't forsaken crippleware just yet
If Avid was a government agency supported by your tax dollars maybe you would have more to say about their right to protect themselves.



Now if you will excuse me, I have to go over to the Porsche forum and complain that they aren't making new 918 Spyder hybrids that sell for the same price as a Kia.
Old 18th August 2010
  #1162
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq View Post
if Avid did give you HD native...

FYI, check out the other thread:

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/5698355-post538.html

Sweetwater already spilled the beans about PT HD Native, now they have removed it from their site. Very exciting news for me.
Old 18th August 2010
  #1163
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq View Post
if Avid did give you HD native, fewer would buy their cards. Why would they do that? other than to make your day, I mean. Avid is in the hardware business. Their software is the bait. Maybe that sucks but can you honestly blame them? They are a business- they don't want your 'lack of complaints'- they want your money.
Yes exactly so come out with HD Native and tons of guys like me will not only by that software but we'll buy the OMNI thing. That seems like a money maker to me. Yes Avid is a hardware company, I have no problem having to buy hardware in order to use the software but why does the hardware need to be these old cards. Needing DSP power is completely dated. The smart thing to do as a "hardware" company is come out with hardware people need and want. Shoving DSP cards down our throats at this point in time is stupid. Companies need to evolve in order to survive. Btw I owned an HD rig for years. I'm not a complete hater but cmon let's evolve here Avid.
Old 18th August 2010
  #1164
Digidesign Pro Tools Next Move

Quote:
Originally Posted by spicemix
I did switch to Logic. Not exactly easy transition but it worked. Mostly.

Anyway Sweetwater just leaked Pro Tools HD Native is supported in v 8.1. This will be the dsp-free pci digilink card and will replace hd tdm. So that argument will be obsolete by AES. Of course lynx is the one who stands to clean up as a result of this development...barring yet newer interface offerings from M-Audio (who designed these).
Really glad about that...exactly what I said they should do about a year ago. Glad to see I'm not the only one thinking along those lines!
Old 18th August 2010
  #1165
Lives for gear
 
nativeaudio's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq View Post
Why don't they just get logic/nuendo/DP and a new multi-core machine and a multi-input interface and get on with their lives?
Many did that already.


Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq View Post
if Avid did give you HD native, fewer would buy their cards. Why would they do that?
Because fewer will buy their cards even if they wouldn't go native. They simply need to compete with Steinberg, Applogee and others.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DP40oz View Post
If Avid gives us HD Native then nobody will be complaining.
Of course they will, and then the competition and complaining will change character (ADC/price/features/stability/performance/easy of use and so on).
Old 18th August 2010
  #1166
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mtstudios@charter's Avatar
 

Just bit the bullet and traded up from PCI to PCIe. Now I am looking to get the intel. This endeavor isn't exactly pocket change ($5400 Approx.), but I can't complain too much, it has lasted 8 years, or something like that. This will be my third Pro Tools investment. 888's ($15k) 192's ($14k), PCIe's ($5k).

Blue Thumb Productions-Audio Production Facilities
Old 18th August 2010
  #1167
Quote:
Why don't they just get logic/nuendo/DP and a new multi-core machine and a multi-input interface and get on with their lives?

The vitriol simply would not exist if the HD product was as clearly inferior as they claim.
This is exactly what I was saying pages back, also now "HD Native" has been unoficially leaked I think we are set to prove exactly what me and a few others were saying pages and pages ago.

Wait and see until the entire lineup is announced, then decide whether you want to bash the products.




A fair chunk of people I know don't use Avid/Digi interfaces, we use Prism, a friend of mine uses lavry in his home project room.

The key is they all bought PCIe cards, plugins, sync boxes. And god knows what else. This sustains their business, lets us have the new software.
Old 18th August 2010
  #1168
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doorknocker's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveE View Post
Sweetwater already spilled the beans about PT HD Native, now they have removed it from their site. Very exciting news for me.
And who got fired this time?
Old 19th August 2010
  #1169
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmy3189 View Post
Wait and see until the entire lineup is announced, then decide whether you want to bash the products.
where's the fun in that? heh

let's face it, for whatever reason, digi/avid/pro tools is the company people Love to Hate, the Great Satan, the Root of All Evil. Disappointment with the actual product line seems to be only marginally connected to the unreasoning foaming at the mouth that occurs each time the Company That Must Not be Named appears in a thread title.

There is probably even a sizeable contingent that is unhappy to see the asked-for products emerge, as it blunts their sword and reduces the ranks of their allies in the Holy Cause.
Old 19th August 2010
  #1170
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq View Post
where's the fun in that? heh

let's face it, for whatever reason, digi/avid/pro tools is the company people Love to Hate, the Great Satan, the Root of All Evil. Disappointment with the actual product line seems to be only marginally connected to the unreasoning foaming at the mouth that occurs each time the Company That Must Not be Named appears in a thread title.

There is probably even a sizeable contingent that is unhappy to see the asked-for products emerge, as it blunts their sword and reduces the ranks of their allies in the Holy Cause.
I know. If they come out with something useful and cost effective I think I will take up gardening.
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