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Digidesign Pro Tools Next Move Audio Interfaces
Old 18th August 2010
  #1111
Gear Addict
 
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Can we please not say "epic fail"?

Seriously though, you guys are pretty quick to criticize. Don't get me wrong, I have PLENTY of gripes about Digi/Avid, but all they've done is release a few new interfaces, and they actually look kinda cool to me.

Possible plusses:

-Better sounding converters
-Lower latency
-Soft-clipping limiter
-Better LED's

None of these sound like bad things to have changed. However, I honestly would have rather seen a DSP card upgrade rather than new interfaces...
Old 18th August 2010
  #1112
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Hey Drew Mazurek, it's not just me that was expecting more from Daly City:

Quote:
Originally Posted by anguswoodhead View Post
That's it????
Quote:
Originally Posted by spicemix View Post
That's the last vestiges of a fallen empire.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thumper View Post
I don't want that ****...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaman View Post
if this box represents avid´s "new thinking" I´m not so shure about their future anymore...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dallas Taylor View Post
I feel like Avid is trying to sell me thousands of dollars worth of metal & wires over listening to my (and many others) needs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattg082 View Post
R.I.P Digi....

Quote:
Originally Posted by loujudson View Post
Not just an ugly name anymore!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nielsbeard View Post
I'd call it an Epic failure
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neily View Post
It looked so bad I though it had to be fake! I'm sorry but the HD OMNI looks useless for $3000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Convectuoso View Post
Obviously old technology is obviously old.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neily View Post
... but that omni = gay.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Brown View Post
Mega-disappointing ultra fail. I am embarrassed for them. Clearly no one is at the wheel on the PT product front.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dream View Post
We are heading into 2011. I am unbelievably pissed off
Quote:
Originally Posted by douger5 View Post
Really Avid, this is it? Throw a new paint job on it, knock out a few dents, a few wrench turns under the hood and sell it for brand new! Its amazing after all these years of R&D for the new line of products, that this is it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKM View Post
Holy ultra epic mega fail. Biggest FAIL I have seen in my entire life. I'm deeply saddened by how badly AVID dropped the ball on this one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Ale View Post
Avid are wack man everyone was waiting lol people even got sacked over this and all it is like said above quick respray anyone could have done at home some masking tape and a can of spray lol !!! There painful
Old 18th August 2010
  #1113
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by who? View Post
It really does make sense. Avid wants to be the top dog in the super top of the line professional environment.
It should be pointed out that being in the hardware business KILLS being in the software business. Nobody can put your interface up on a torrent site.

Nobody can krack an Omni and give it to thousands for free.

It should also be pointed out that Pro Tools LE enjoys whatever success it has from the trickle-down of prestige and name recognition from the flagship product. They will always take care of the flagship first. It only makes sense.

All the crushed expectations about Pro Tools are based on the misapprehension that Avid is a software company. Get rid of that idea, and all disappointment evaporates. They do have a nice piece of software, IMO, but the purpose of that software is to act as bait to get you to purchase their hardware.

It's that simple.


It is the height of folly to confuse your self-interest with Avid's self interest. The two may coincide, they may not. At any rate, last I looked we are all free to purchase something else if we don't like it. Free in the legal sense that is.
Old 18th August 2010
  #1114
Lives for gear
 

the worst part is, those are just the interfaces ($3000, $4000, $5000)...

there are CARDS too ($7000, $10000, $12000), and HD1 is useless.

SO, nice omni for 3 grand put i need another 10 to put it to use.
Old 18th August 2010
  #1115
MKM
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MKM's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq View Post
It should be pointed out that being in the hardware business KILLS being in the software business. Nobody can put your interface up on a torrent site.

Nobody can krack an Omni and give it to thousands for free.

It should also be pointed out that Pro Tools LE enjoys whatever success it has from the trickle-down of prestige and name recognition from the flagship product. They will always take care of the flagship first. It only makes sense.

All the crushed expectations about Pro Tools are based on the misapprehension that Avid is a software company. Get rid of that idea, and all disappointment evaporates. They do have a nice piece of software, IMO, but the purpose of that software is to act as bait to get you to purchase their hardware.

It's that simple.


It is the height of folly to confuse your self-interest with Avid's self interest. The two may coincide, they may not. At any rate, last I looked we are all free to purchase something else if we don't like it. Free in the legal sense that is.
Great post, agree completely, I would however like to add something. While it IS true that AVID is a HARDWARE company, who the hell would ever buy ANY AVID audio piece of hardware to USE with something other than Pro Tools? I think anyone can answer that by themselves. And the problem we are seeing right now is that AVID seems to have forgotten that the BIGGEST (if not only) reason most people buy their hardware is to use the said SOFTWARE. Take away Pro Tools (the SOFTWARE) from AVID and see how many people keep buying 96i/o, 192i/o etc... (the HARDWARE).

So this raises the question: Why is AVID neglecting the SOFTWARE? (Ok they don't neglect it per say but they don't seem to be doing much to deal with it's issues, the crippling and everything)
Old 18th August 2010
  #1116
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What I don't understand is: which Avid interface should I use to convert MADI to Analog?
Old 18th August 2010
  #1117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cinealta View Post
Hey Drew Mazurek, it's not just me that was expecting more from Daly City:
Hey bro... You're taking my words out of context... I don't want THAT **** either...

The 16x16 I/o is what I was hoping for.


I'm actually kind of curious if there are going to be new cards, and what they'll be capable of.
Old 18th August 2010
  #1118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thumper View Post
Hey bro... You're taking my words out of context... I don't want THAT **** either...

The 16x16 I/o is what I was hoping for.
Too bad its $2000 more expensive than it should be.
Old 18th August 2010
  #1119
I can't say I understand the thinking behind launching this interface (the omni) now - I see the possible uses for post, but it seems to me to have all the downsides of the LE range (mic pres built in - by all reports the digi PRE is a good clean preamp, but I know only one studio who has one), but sonics aside, not a lot of the advantages of HD interfaces.

Now, what would be REALLY clever is if they were to release a Symphony style card to partner it or the HD 16x16. No DSP as such, just a stable way to address the interface that doesn't involve coreaudio. Now that'd be a good system - and would make sense launching an all in one interface.

Please?!
Old 18th August 2010
  #1120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Brown View Post
Too bad its $2000 more expensive than it should be.
What should it be?

Let's look at the 192. The "msrp" of that was 4 grand. That gives you 8x8 analog. Then you have the option of adding another 8 ins or outs at 1000 a pop or whatever it was, I forgot.

Let's imagine that you could add an additional 8 ins and outs to the 192. By my math, that would be 6 grand.

And I doubt that anyone is actually going to be paying the full $5000 for the new box, just like no one paid the full 4 for the 192.


Yeah, the aurora box or whatever might be cheaper, but I haven't heard The new io yet, have you?

One thing that I'm hoping for, is that there is a way to turn the limiting off, or to be able to meter any gain reduction going on.

It's still way to early for any of us to make any judgement calls on these boxes yet.

I'll give it a month and then look at ordering 3 of them to replace our 4 192s.
Old 18th August 2010
  #1121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
I can't say I understand the thinking behind launching this interface (the omni) now - I see the possible uses for post, but it seems to me to have all the downsides of the LE range (mic pres built in - by all reports the digi PRE is a good clean preamp, but I know only one studio who has one), but sonics aside, not a lot of the advantages of HD interfaces.
Please?!
Im thinkin they were thinking about the HD users who need a system at home to work and dont like the LE limitation without the TDM aspects so as to get the PRO's off the LE/M-Box stuff. Who knows??
Old 18th August 2010
  #1122
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Suda Badri's Avatar
 

Who knows if the HD omni can be used standalone???

It might be nice to use along side my Uln8....
Old 18th August 2010
  #1123
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MKM View Post
So this raises the question: Why is AVID neglecting the SOFTWARE? (Ok they don't neglect it per say but they don't seem to be doing much to deal with it's issues, the crippling and everything)
as an HD user, I am totally satisfied with my software. I love it and I love being good at it, which I consider MY "investment" heh

I do not feel my HD software is crippled in any way. I have heard the track limit per card is arbitrary, but I never approach such track counts, so I have never experienced it. I am frankly leery of 'improvements' in the software that might move my favorite tools to unfamiliar places, or slow things down with Bloat. It records, it edits, it mixes, it accepts plug-ins. I am an old-school guy. I am too busy pushing projects out the door to cry about missing new bells and whistles in my software.

LE is crippled - but only so they can sell more hardware and entice more people into the segment of the market where they rule. Which is also what these slightly cheaper HD interfaces are about.

LE users (I also have 2 LE systems for portable uses) will not buy the HD cow if the milk comes free with LE.
Old 18th August 2010
  #1124
Motown legend
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G-Spot View Post
What I don't understand is: which Avid interface should I use to convert MADI to Analog?
How about this one:

Euphonix :: Analog - MADI Converters
Old 18th August 2010
  #1125
Lives for gear
 

Digidesign Pro Tools Next Move

The only sense that I can make of "omni" is that this particular unit looks enticing to new, "home", budget, or future HD users like myself. But the problem with that statement though is that there are not going to be any new, future, or budget HD users interested in this because NO one will buy HD cards at it's current pricing structure, within the demographic they're trying to appeal to. It is simply too expensive, but more importantly the actual cards that grant entrance into the HD realm are old technology. It's like paying 10 grand for a compaq presario from the 90s or a 1500$ fully loaded i7 from today. I personally don't know anyone right now that is willing to pay over what you can find a core card for on eBay and even that's a stretch.. these new products don't amount to **** unless they dramatically change their current pricing structure to resemble the cards (price of admission) actual value, or address the real problem which lies within the actual pro tools software itself, which isn't able to handle more than 2 or 3 gigs of ram. If pro tools was more large address aware it would solve the practical problem of owning a card, based on ram limitations. New computers are more powerful than owning 7 of these cards! If this company does not acknowledge the reality of what they are selling and humble themselves there is no doubt in my mind that avid will implode. There is a great i7 thread on the duc of people getting huge performance statistics out of native sessions surpassing all card limitations. I want to own one of these cards very, very badly.. But I refuse to pay THAT much money for old technology.
Old 18th August 2010
  #1126
Myr
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I don't see a problem with the HD I/O or the Madi interface. My only beef is with the Omni, which looks so unfocused. It does a little bit of everything, but not enough to make it usable to even me. I guess they want to market it as a 'backup interface', but still.
Old 18th August 2010
  #1127
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Myr View Post
I don't see a problem with the HD I/O or the Madi interface. My only beef is with the Omni, which looks so unfocused. It does a little bit of everything, but not enough to make it usable to even me. I guess they want to market it as a 'backup interface', but still.
Fast forward 12 months and there will be an HD OMNI in every single audio post/ edit/ sounddesign/ foley/ media composer room round the world. (BTW that is ALOT of rooms)

How is that unfocussed?
Old 18th August 2010
  #1128
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Omni could've been/might become? Avids - "Professional Remote Rig" competing with Metric Halo and Prism Sound. But the fact (as is currently understood - which could change in the coming months...as the mini link connector is suspicious *as mentioned elsewhere) that it has to be connected as of right now to a PCI (e) HD card limits its appeal to this market wither or not targeted. (magma chassis adds nearly a grand to the system price without adding any Audio benefit aside from allowing functionality). PTHD cards even compatible with magma anymore?

No one at Avid pictured the Omni underneath a suitable Laptop running PTHD 8 ?? or did they? 2 chip HD card fitted onto an expresscard style unit (I/O - whatever else is left of the DSP + RTAS for rest). ???

it could be Orpheus vs ULN8 vs Omni in this segment of people who would like to be light - can get by with well below 16 inputs - yet wish to offer clients "uncompromised" sound quality. (obviously going on specs for the Omni)

People need to remember some of the earliest and most interesting of all the recordings in the 20th century were done on the road. Think Alan Lomax. Now imagine giving the next Alan Lomax a Professional Studio in a duffel bag. So they can not only discover incredible acts almost lost and forgotten...but do it in a manner which represents the very best of technologies relating to Audio. Metric Halo and Prism Sound are trying... Avid are you?

Some of the great Natural sounding spaces in the world need to be accessed by great sounding gear. With mega big Studios falling by the waist side... one day "hunting down" incredible natural spaces will be the only viable option to replicate wonderful room/space reverberations (instead of building them).

guess just thinking out loud as usual...

Maybe Adobe gaining access to a hardware companies they havent before (Apogee-Metric Halo) and incorporate AA4 (into OSX). Better chance of this happening ( because it is) than Avid doing something sensible huh.... ill bite my tongue until the whole show is over. but Audition on OSX/CoreAudio and an Apogee I/O - MH ULN8 is mighty tough to look away from.

Last edited by tuRnitUpsuM; 18th August 2010 at 07:48 AM.. Reason: clarification
Old 18th August 2010
  #1129
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by CeretoneAudio View Post
Fast forward 12 months and there will be an HD OMNI in every single audio post/ edit/ sounddesign/ foley/ media composer room round the world. (BTW that is ALOT of rooms)

How is that unfocussed?
I don't think that's true. I think Avid has done wonders for the 2nd hand market with these new prices. I also think Post's budgets are contracting, not expanding, and they aren't a reliable cash cow anymore. People are using FCP at home and unless set up for 5.1 really only need the built-in mac optical i/o to work native.

We haven't seen the software side of all this yet. I predict it will be a mighty disappointment since they are entrenching further on HD systems, while their entire Intel-based next generation of cards was hosed when Intel cancelled the chips they were built on. The software won't have 64 bit memory for years. And post desperately needs offline bounce, which the current cards can't provide.

Even if Avid comes up with a workaround via a DSP-free Digilink card and the hardware emulation approach we saw earlier this year , it will only be a kludge and we can be sure wealthy Apple will have a turn at bat too. They want to sell Macs and stay dominant in that market (Mr. Jobs has something to do with film, no?) and they aren't saddled with all the legacies Avid has to contend with.

So no I don't think the (max simultaneous 8 in, 8 out) PUNI is going to sell massive numbers, and won't solve Avid's core challenges. The high end of post they may retain a story as long as they don't destroy Euphonix in a political struggle.
Old 18th August 2010
  #1130
Omni would be nice with Media Composer for offline cutting...
Old 18th August 2010
  #1131
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by who? View Post
It really does make sense. Avid wants to be the top dog in the super top of the line professional environment. It seems like for them to continue to do that - the changes they have made were completely necessary. It does however feel like they are ignoring all of us that don't have lavish budgets - but there is still much more to come.
The big big problem with that bright idea, is that these people (e.g. studios like us and travelling engineers with a large rig) account for 4% of the market.

80% of the audio market spends less than $10k on everything.
Old 18th August 2010
  #1132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq View Post
They do have a nice piece of software, IMO, but the purpose of that software is to act as bait to get you to purchase their hardware.
True.

I just want the software, though.
Old 18th August 2010
  #1133
Lives for gear
 

All I can think of when watching the product presentation is:

"what we did before, sounds nothing like this and this now is great" meaning "what we did before sounded like **** but we hyped it anyway"

I was really hoping for native LE/TDM hybrid...

k
Old 18th August 2010
  #1134
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by CeretoneAudio View Post
Fast forward 12 months and there will be an HD OMNI in every single audio post/ edit/ sounddesign/ foley/ media composer room round the world.
Whatever for?

People's gonna buy Symphony's like crazy...
Old 18th August 2010
  #1135
Digidesign Pro Tools Next Move

Quote:
Originally Posted by author

Whatever for?

People's gonna buy Symphony's like crazy...
You clearly missed the point, or know nothing about post production. Logic doesn't exactly have any market share here, and nuendo is way less common than pt. Who else are going to want a symphony system?
Old 18th August 2010
  #1136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cinealta View Post
Hey Drew Mazurek, it's not just me that was expecting more from Daly City:
Why would you have high expectations? Have they created really awesome things in the 10 years that would make you think that way?

The part I don't get is the weird emotional attitudes toward a corporate entity that so many of you guys have. It's strange.

I've had the same DAW for 7 years (original HD3 with a D Command) and I happen to like the way PT does most things. This rig has paid for itself over and over, about every 4-6 weeks in fact. I've tried DP and I am currently learning Reaper and Logic in my spare time (yeah right). The minute I find something that I like better, that does everything I need it to do, I'm there, DONE. And if it's cheaper great, if not I'll pay it if it's worth it to me.

But what I won't and don't do is waste my time posting vitriol about companies and products that I don't like or who have not met my expectations. For example, I more or less cannot stand everything Tascam and Yamaha make. I think they do some great engineering but everything, ergonomically speaking, seems designed by a guy in a lab coat. Do I go around posting this whenever and wherever people are discussing their products? Of course not, that would be silly. I vote with my dollars, period, and therefore do not own anything they make.

BTW, the jackasses that think PTHD is for "pros" and that the haters just can't afford it, are more annoying than the bashers. People are doing awesome work on every DAW out there. But for me, there simply isn't anything out there that replicates what my 7 year old DAW does for me.

Now carry on wasting those precious hours!!!! heh
Old 18th August 2010
  #1137
Gear Head
 
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Well I bought an 003 factory and I wish i would have put my money into Euphonix Mc Control and Mc Mix for DAW control and a Apogee Symphony 64 card with Apogee converts (which by the way I am about to do). I thought buy the 003 would help me get into learning the so called "industry standard" Pro tools to see what all the hype is about, and yeah its a very good daw with user friendly features. To me I thought its was a good things Avid was acquiring Euphonix for many of reasons mainly for me is that, Euphonix's pro line series can so much more than their Icon series can even compete at doing. So basically my whole point is Avid said this the new era of an open minded Avid? To me I like work in different daws and I don't like to be constricted to one way of working.
Old 18th August 2010
  #1138
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
You clearly missed the point
You're right, didn't see 'media' in front of 'composer'. thumbsup
Old 18th August 2010
  #1139
Gear Head
 

Amen. thumbsup

Quote:
Originally Posted by drew View Post
Why would you have high expectations? Have they created really awesome things in the 10 years that would make you think that way?

The part I don't get is the weird emotional attitudes toward a corporate entity that so many of you guys have. It's strange.

I've had the same DAW for 7 years (original HD3 with a D Command) and I happen to like the way PT does most things. This rig has paid for itself over and over, about every 4-6 weeks in fact. I've tried DP and I am currently learning Reaper and Logic in my spare time (yeah right). The minute I find something that I like better, that does everything I need it to do, I'm there, DONE. And if it's cheaper great, if not I'll pay it if it's worth it to me.

But what I won't and don't do is waste my time posting vitriol about companies and products that I don't like or who have not met my expectations. For example, I more or less cannot stand everything Tascam and Yamaha make. I think they do some great engineering but everything, ergonomically speaking, seems designed by a guy in a lab coat. Do I go around posting this whenever and wherever people are discussing their products? Of course not, that would be silly. I vote with my dollars, period, and therefore do not own anything they make.

BTW, the jackasses that think PTHD is for "pros" and that the haters just can't afford it, are more annoying than the bashers. People are doing awesome work on every DAW out there. But for me, there simply isn't anything out there that replicates what my 7 year old DAW does for me.

Now carry on wasting those precious hours!!!! heh
Old 18th August 2010
  #1140
Gear Maniac
 
Edwards's Avatar
 

Avid's shortsightedness just made an epic fail.
I had been waiting for a Native HD too...

If the OMNI could connect to my Macbook Pro via Firewire 800 and use PTHD, then I would have brought one to replace my Mbox/Alpha Channel in my songwriting/overdub rig. But Avid had to stick with FRICKIN' CARDS!!!

Screw that. I'm going to use Reaper with the professional nterface of my choice. Avid lost my business for good by thinking Pros don't want an HD Native. I do and I'd be willing to buy an interface like omni if I could have had it.
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