The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
Digidesign Pro Tools Next Move Audio Interfaces
Old 31st July 2010
  #961
Lives for gear
This is what digi next move will be.



*Digi* dfegad *you*
Old 31st July 2010
  #962
Lives for gear
 
razorboy's Avatar
 

I am extremely keen to know what Pro Tools is up to if that "up to" means serious changes this year. If anyone here has the inside scoop, and will divulge it to me, I will pay the equivalent to $15,000 USD, drawn on my bank account in Lagos, for the info.
Old 31st July 2010
  #963
Lives for gear
 

I suggest people take a look at the Pro Tools About box credits. You may notice some familiar names, which will give you some insight as to objectivity on these forums.
Old 12th August 2010
  #964
Lives for gear
 
Jeff16years's Avatar
 

is there a rumored eta on this "new" thing?
Old 12th August 2010
  #965
Lives for gear
 

Hrhr....now we are getting closer -
looking forward to "it"heh
Old 12th August 2010
  #966
Lives for gear
 
drew's Avatar
wars and rumors of wars!!
Old 12th August 2010
  #967
Lives for gear
 

Glad I just bought an m-box
Old 12th August 2010
  #968
Lives for gear
Honestly I'm done with protools. I used it for 10 years and was a loyal customer since i was 18. I'm 28 now and we're nearly at 2 generations of new enthusiast and they haven't come out with anything new. I was ready to move up into the serious stuff and when I had the money to drop came at a crossroads with the lack of development and state of the industry. Logic and symphony or with any other daw just seems like a no brainer for any home studio. Of course if your a major sure get a hd3, some plugs, a mac and a pair of apogee adx , some mics with some outboard and your ready to go but given the cost we know it's cheaper to go with symphony and spend the rest on outboard or just simply save it.

I don't understand how every other daw has adc and how hd has adc but is such a drastic cost comparison and pretty off given cost ratio. I get it track count but I don't know many home studios needing 48+ to begin with and more home studios make up the majority these days. Major studios do less every day. Avid simply has alienated the biggest customer in this industry right now with the state of music which is the serious average home studio customer with a budget middle ground of 5,000-15,000. and growing People buying those mboxes don't even care they just drink the coolaid that if it says protools it's the best no matter what.

I think they should take a cue from Apogee and come out with a one in all module box with cards that lets you build your own system. Even someone who shells out 4,000 more than likely will buy the king of the hill system later for an extra 3,000, hardware costs are kept down, they just make a new module every now and then making it future proof for awhile and focus on software. But we all know Avid's tactics with making products the way they are on purpose. The way they charge per minute is even disgusting. Go look at the Digi duc and not many are talking about making music it's always a bunch of errors.
Old 12th August 2010
  #969
Lives for gear
 
relaxo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattg082 View Post
Go look at the Digi duc and not many are talking about making music it's always a bunch of errors.
Please direct us to the DAW tech support forum where people talk about music instead of a bunch of errors.
Old 12th August 2010
  #970
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by relaxo View Post
Please direct us to the DAW tech support forum where people talk about music instead of a bunch of errors.
I'm not even talking tech support so much...I guess I should of been more clear..Any forum about digi anymore is people bitching about protools errors, adc ect. You hear the name Avid the lynch mob is coming and the name is associated in that way now. I guess what I'm trying to say is after 10 years of using it all I ever hear when I hear protools anymore is error this, problem that, won't work with this, crash crash, adc, hd is outdated and cost too much.

It was a headache for most of 2000-2006 for me and it did improve a bit in the later 7.6 and beyond updates but most everyone I know who still uses it curses every day about it and has no idea if things are going to go smooth that day or not with the exception of most hd systems. I have nothing against protools/avid if it wasn't run by a bunch of assholes.
Old 12th August 2010
  #971
Gear Addict
 

NEXT WEEK---you will want to pay attention! - Avid Audio Forums

Well according to this guy its happening next week.
Old 12th August 2010
  #972
Lives for gear
 
drew's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by DP40oz View Post
NEXT WEEK---you will want to pay attention! - Avid Audio Forums

Well according to this guy its happening next week.
He's talking about something else.
Old 12th August 2010
  #973
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by drew View Post
He's talking about something else.
Yea my guess is the next version of Pro Tools will have unlimited track counts for HD owners. Now that its been proven that track counts arent card dependent and digi purposely crippled them, I think that would be something they might do now.
Old 12th August 2010
  #974
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by drew View Post
He's talking about something else.
A new name, perhaps?
Old 12th August 2010
  #975
Lives for gear
 
nativeaudio's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by author View Post
A new name, perhaps?
Yeah, I've heard that they've simply reversed Avid.
Old 12th August 2010
  #976
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DP40oz View Post
NEXT WEEK---you will want to pay attention! - Avid Audio Forums

Well according to this guy its happening next week.
B4 404 it seemed like some hd deal to clear inventory before the native announcements at aes/namm.
Old 12th August 2010
  #977
Gear Head
 
Jonathan_H's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DP40oz View Post
NEXT WEEK---you will want to pay attention! - Avid Audio Forums

Well according to this guy its happening next week.
Hmm, links now dead. Avid wanting to keep something quiet?
Old 13th August 2010
  #978
PDC
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattg082 View Post
I'm not even talking tech support so much...I guess I should of been more clear..Any forum about digi anymore is people bitching about protools errors, adc ect. You hear the name Avid the lynch mob is coming and the name is associated in that way now. I guess what I'm trying to say is after 10 years of using it all I ever hear when I hear protools anymore is error this, problem that, won't work with this, crash crash, adc, hd is outdated and cost too much.

It was a headache for most of 2000-2006 for me and it did improve a bit in the later 7.6 and beyond updates but most everyone I know who still uses it curses every day about it and has no idea if things are going to go smooth that day or not with the exception of most hd systems. I have nothing against protools/avid if it wasn't run by a bunch of assholes.
First off, when you are selling more widgets than anyone else on the planet, you are going to have more complaints. Secondly, I don't see too many big name users on there complaining. There are far more people happily using PT than complaining. Thirdly, if we were to filter out the stupid crap and posts by people who have neglected to READ docs before, during and after their purchases, and/or failed to purchase from a knowledgeable dealer who would set up the system and offer some support, there would be substantially less biotching on them there postin's.

That said, Avid has had bad discs that cost them some business and resources. They have had some business practices that are less than stellar. They have become something of a monster, and the founding fathers would say that they wish that they could start something new. I don't agree with everything they do. That God we live in a country where we CAN gripe on a forum. BUT, if we had a dollar for every time someone posted about an issue already covered, something that was operator error, something that was solved by education in the Help file....we would be filthy rich.
Old 13th August 2010
  #979
Lives for gear
 
toledo3's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by razorboy View Post
Strictly speaking, Bob, what you say is perfectly logical. Why would you post such a thing? You some kind of radical?
Bob's assessment is logical but I think it's also truthful to say that if an app opened and ran PT sessions, with no "gotchas", and was cheaper that it would be a winner.

If it added more efficient processing to the equation, it would be a serious rival (this isn't hard, because there is a serious lack of optimization going on in the way PT works- there isn't a reason that it can't be harnessing GPU for additional processing, as well as allowing for networking for additional power, instead of the lame breakout card boxes). Finally, with some useful "killer utilities" that *didn't* work in PT, Avid would have a hard time dealing with it.

I don't think that anyone has backwards engineered the PT session file format to a substantial level to let it open up as is, without any kind of preparation/OMF-esque step (to my knowledge), but it's not a technical impossibility, even if Digidesign hasn't possible for developers to do (not saying they haven't...I'm not sure, but this sure has me curious to look into it).
Old 13th August 2010
  #980
Lives for gear
 
PMoshay's Avatar
 

I think people should start pissing on it now and get ahead of others, you have a week of "pre-critiquing"......... which can be followed by: "They should have" the week of release........
Old 13th August 2010
  #981
Gear Addict
 
dub3000's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by toledo3 View Post
I don't think that anyone has backwards engineered the PT session file format to a substantial level to let it open up as is, without any kind of preparation/OMF-esque step (to my knowledge), but it's not a technical impossibility, even if Digidesign hasn't possible for developers to do (not saying they haven't...I'm not sure, but this sure has me curious to look into it).
The only reason this hasn't happened yet is because Digi have encrypted their session files to explicitly prevent other people from reading PT project files.

I had a look at it once and gave up. Even if it was possible and legal, they'd probably throw lawyers at you quoting DMCA encryption laws or something.

FWIW, that's the only reason I keep an old version of PT around these days - so I can export PT sessions into consolidated waves to work on them in other programs.
Old 13th August 2010
  #982
Lives for gear
 
cinealta's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by PDC View Post
Secondly, I don't see too many big name users on there complaining.
How about Linkin Park at NRG Studios, engineered by Ethan Mates, in Dec 2009? From Mike Shinoda:

Digidesign / ProTools rant

Quote:
I don’t rant often, but this particular note deserves it. I’ll write this while the studio computer is restarting. Here’s the deal. I hope you guys at Digidesign are reading.

ProTools is friggin crashing…every time I zoom in too far.

What?

I can’t zoom?

The engineers and I have tried to hunt down the root of this problem (online) for a month. We haven’t come up with anything. We then called the Digidesign artist relations team, who have told us 3 times “OK, give us a time when you guys will be in the studio, and we’ll call you.” They flake. Every time. Ethan (our engineer) asked if we could call them. “No, because we need a tech on the phone…” And so on.

To be fair, I know these guys are busy actually fixing this bug…but this is industry-standard software. Your average ProTools rig is about $30-50,000.00. I want to be able to, um…zoom. I hear that Logic and Cubase both zoom in. Even Garage Band zooms in, and that came free with my computer.

And after I did lockjaw and helped them promote PT8…and the NAMM appearance…and tell everyone how awesome their stuff is, maybe they could at least give a fella a call back.

mike
Old 14th August 2010
  #983
Lives for gear
 
dualflip's Avatar
 

Hey i've been thinking about this whole topic about PT going native completely substituting PT HD or DSP based systems. And in my humble opinion there are basically 2 major reasons why this wont happen at least not in the near future.

1.- A lot of studios, have spent a huge amount of money on PT HD, and even if Digi/Avid is a greedy bull**** company, they are aware that their big bucks are coming from those studios, so basically in the near future, they cant tell them that the 20k dollar rig they just bought is now useless. HOWEVER, there might me a native version of PT which integrates those DSP cards to add more power, that might be a great idea!

2.- Most of the opinions and comments i've read here come from the music studio perspective, and from that perspective a native PT version is very logical, howerver most of the people writting those comments are not aware that the studios that are spending the BIG bucks are not the music studios but the post-production studios for film, tv, etc... some of those studios even have a separate computer with an HD8 dedicated only to reverbs!!!!!!, for example in film post-production studios, the track count easily excedes the 192 voices that HD provides, remember that the word "stereo" in film postproduction studios is rarely heard, its all about 5.1 mixing.

I have yet to see a native platform being able to handle the amount of processing power needed on one of those studios.

When we are talking about tons of audio tracks, 5.1 mixing, while re-recording, plus a lot of plug-ins reverbs/eqs/compressors/etc constantly being fully automated, sync with HD video and other devices all at once, then a native solution doesnt make much sense.

My 2 cents
Old 14th August 2010
  #984
Lives for gear
 

It appears they are de-crippling the software and re-crippling the hardware.
Old 14th August 2010
  #985
Caj
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dualflip View Post
Hey i've been thinking about this whole topic about

2.- Most of the opinions and comments i've read here come from the music studio perspective, and from that perspective a native PT version is very logical, howerver most of the people writting those comments are not aware that the studios that are spending the BIG bucks are not the music studios but the post-production studios for film, tv, etc... some of those studios even have a separate computer with an HD8 dedicated only to reverbs!!!!!!, for example in film post-production studios, the track count easily excedes the 192 voices that HD provides, remember that the word "stereo" in film postproduction studios is rarely heard, its all about 5.1 mixing.

I have yet to see a native platform being able to handle the amount of processing power needed on one of those studios.

When we are talking about tons of audio tracks, 5.1 mixing, while re-recording, plus a lot of plug-ins reverbs/eqs/compressors/etc constantly being fully automated, sync with HD video and other devices all at once, then a native solution doesnt make much sense.

My 2 cents
There is massive power involved, and as someone who does post on the side, this is QFT, it is a sheer power hog, so full native seems out of the question ATM. I'm hoping something pops up that makes me go WOW, but for now I sit and
Old 14th August 2010
  #986
Got this email thru from a mate today - not sure what it means exactly - anyone got any ideas?

"New Digi systems aug 16 th...interesting. (apparently PT HD that runs on laptop !)"


Old 14th August 2010
  #987
Lives for gear
 
nativeaudio's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dualflip View Post
- Most of the opinions and comments i've read here come from the music studio perspective, and from that perspective a native PT version is very logical, howerver most of the people writting those comments are not aware that the studios that are spending the BIG bucks are not the music studios but the post-production studios for film, tv, etc... some of those studios even have a separate computer with an HD8 dedicated only to reverbs!!!!!!,
There are also studios that have separate computers only for native reverbs....

Quote:
for example in film post-production studios, the track count easily excedes the 192 voices that HD provides, remember that the word "stereo" in film postproduction studios is rarely heard, its all about 5.1 mixing.

I have yet to see a native platform being able to handle the amount of processing power needed on one of those studios.
One native system, or a native system? ;-) If they need multiple HD systems to get their job done, they could also hook up multiple native systems...


However, I don't think studios that have invested a lot in any platform (eg. PTHD) would switch to something else just because something better came out. Again: In the cases where more than 192 tracks PTHD provides are needed, they need multiple systems anyway, which can be done in both native and non-native DAWs. And a, no - one native system on a fast computer, hooked up to a RAID system can run more than 192 tracks. It can run 255 tracks that can be either mono, stereo or surround + instrument tracks, and due to the dynamic allocation of DSP power in host based systems, all the power used for music, foley and dialog used on one scene is automatically freed up to be used on something else as soon as the scene is over. This isn't possible in the current TDM based systems. So there are arguments against using TDM in post production as well.

The first versions of TDM first appeared in the 1870s! Yes - 1870s, not 1970s, in telegraphy. It was later used for telephony, and 15-20 years ago, it was considered a very innovative way of dealing with pro audio. There's no reason to assume that systems with more power and lower latency cannot be designed for post today; systems not based on TDM. Not that it really matters, but TDM, even the digital audio version of it - is far from 'modern', let alone flexible.

I agree that most of the opinions and comments posted here are from the music studio perspective. However, I wouldn't be surprised if even for post, Avid/Digi, who at least was very innovative when it came to finding new ways to dealing with digital audio would move on to something more flexible. Remember - they jumped from being a company creating sounds for drum machines to patenting how to use TDM for audio in only a few years. And - talking about telecommunication: when optical becomes the standard for professional audio transfers (eg. between the host computer and the audio interface, or between multiple computers), we're looking at a whole new world of possibilities.

Even if Avid would launch a new system on Monday, they'd do everything they can to not present it as a replacement for PTHD (if possible), because the minute the people behind PTHD states that they have a native system that will be as great for music production as PTHD, many of those who stick to TDM systems today may as well go native with another DAW - eg. one with fewer hardware restrictions.

The reason I don't think they'll release their own "PTHD-killer" this year, is that LP (Light Peak) still isn't ready for prime time in commercial computers (this won't happen until next year), and if Intel hasn't been able to finalize a new standard, I don't think Avid has been able to do it either.
Old 14th August 2010
  #988
Lives for gear
 

Fairlight is king of the hill for DAW's for very high track counts like in film/post. The few customers with those specific needs are already being served by Fairlight, Digi just can't perform at that level (their hardware can't cut it). I think a basic Fairlight system starts at $30k but it is miles ahead of what the rest of the pack can do.
Old 14th August 2010
  #989
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassmankr View Post
Fairlight is king of the hill for DAW's for very high track counts like in film/post. The few customers with those specific needs are already being served by Fairlight, Digi just can't perform at that level (their hardware can't cut it). I think a basic Fairlight system starts at $30k but it is miles ahead of what the rest of the pack can do.
i dont think i have ever seen a fairlight system in any film/post or music studio in all my years in this biz in both la and nyc. I saw one in germany a few years ago.
Old 14th August 2010
  #990
Lives for gear
 
dualflip's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by nativeaudio View Post
There are also studios that have separate computers only for native reverbs....
I know some studios have separate computers for reverbs, not many of them with and HD 8!


Quote:


Even if Avid would launch a new system on Monday, they'd do everything they can to not present it as a replacement for PTHD (if possible), because the minute the people behind PTHD states that they have a native system that will be as great for music production as PTHD, many of those who stick to TDM systems today may as well go native with another DAW - eg. one with fewer hardware restrictions.

The reason I don't think they'll release their own "PTHD-killer" this year, is that LP (Light Peak) still isn't ready for prime time in commercial computers (this won't happen until next year), and if Intel hasn't been able to finalize a new standard, I don't think Avid has been able to do it either.

Yeah, i agree, im not saying they will not release a native system, im saying they wont do it soon. However it would be incredibly hilarious in a sarcastic way that they do release a native system soon, just after all the digi-rebate HD discounts they been having, considering that a lot of users have bought an HD system just because of that discount, that would be like one of the worst audio company scams i have yet to see..
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Similar Threads
Thread
Thread Starter / Forum
Replies
xirvi / Gearslutz Secondhand Gear Classifieds
0
cajonezzz / So much gear, so little time
9

Forum Jump
Forum Jump