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Digidesign Pro Tools Next Move Audio Interfaces
Old 1st April 2010
  #781
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cinealta's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tamasdragon View Post
Come on. This was a rumour.

First it was a team in India, than Ukraine. But this was just speculation.
AVID Technologies is a publicly traded company. This is not speculation. Pro Tools development is sourced out of Global Logic in Svyatoshynsky, Kiev, Ukraine.

Most of the original American talent is gone. My engineering friends, in the Valley, call the company "AVoID." Rounds of layoffs have demoralized those who are left. The joke is that the guys working over on Junipero Serra Blvd have to swipe their entry cards every morning to see if they still have a job.

AVID management only want to cut costs (ie layoff employees) to show a short-term, contrived improvement to the balance sheet, to stem shareholder lawsuits or their own dismissal by the Board.

Over 50% of the company is off-shore. At best, there were problems between the off-shore and U.S. teams. At worst, the relationships have become adversarial.

Digidesign, as we all once knew it, for its innovative and brilliant engineering team, no longer exists.
Old 1st April 2010
  #782
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tamasdragon's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by cinealta View Post
AVID Technologies is a publicly traded company. This is not speculation. Pro Tools development is sourced out of Global Logic in Svyatoshynsky, Kiev, Ukraine.

Most of the original American talent is gone. My engineering friends, in the Valley, call the company "AVoID." Rounds of layoffs have demoralized those who are left. The joke is that the guys working over on Junipero Serra Blvd have to swipe their entry cards every morning to see if they still have a job.

AVID management only want to cut costs (ie layoff employees) to show a short-term, contrived improvement to the balance sheet, to stem shareholder lawsuits or their own dismissal by the Board.

Over 50% of the company is off-shore. At best, there were problems between the off-shore and U.S. teams. At worst, the relationships have become adversarial.

Digidesign, as we all once knew it for its innovative and brilliant engineering team, no longer exists.
Any proof of this?
Old 1st April 2010
  #783
Gear Maniac
 
scud133's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by cinealta View Post
AVID Technologies is a publicly traded company. This is not speculation. Pro Tools development is sourced out of Global Logic in Svyatoshynsky, Kiev, Ukraine.

Most of the original American talent is gone. My engineering friends, in the Valley, call the company "AVoID." Rounds of layoffs have demoralized those who are left. The joke is that the guys working over on Junipero Serra Blvd have to swipe their entry cards every morning to see if they still have a job.

AVID management only want to cut costs (ie layoff employees) to show a short-term, contrived improvement to the balance sheet, to stem shareholder lawsuits or their own dismissal by the Board.

Over 50% of the company is off-shore. At best, there were problems between the off-shore and U.S. teams. At worst, the relationships have become adversarial.

Digidesign, as we all once knew it, for its innovative and brilliant engineering team, no longer exists.
This is starting to sound like Henry J. and Gibson

Gibson Guitar CEO picks fight with lenders after alienating retailers and employees
Old 1st April 2010
  #784
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Suda Badri's Avatar
 

ITS NOT OVER TILL THE FAT VIRTUAL LADY SINGS... and she will probably be recorded using pro tools.... I still fail to see how the mother of digital audio technology will die out without a fight at least... way way way too many studios that actually still make money use pro tools.... that has never changed.... most producers I knew in aussie all had an mbox for their laptop, a digi002 for their personal studio and worked out protools in the day... and I dont see the problem with out sourcing... maybe ukranians and indians will bring avid sales up...
Old 1st April 2010
  #785
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Cellotron's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by tamasdragon View Post
Any proof of this?
I can confirm this is true as I have a close friend who must remain unnamed who works at Digi (and as of this date still has his job) who let me know of the situation there.

You can also add Larry Thrasher to the short list of prominent folks no longer at Digi.

Best regards,
Steve Berson
Old 1st April 2010
  #786
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octatonic's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by tamasdragon View Post
Any proof of this?
I know some of the guys affected- it is pretty much on the money.

You could always ask Steve Massey. :-)
Old 2nd April 2010
  #787
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PMoshay's Avatar
 

I would not matter if they coded the program on the south pole with eskimos, if its good, i'll buy it.
I love all the 3rd hand corporate gossip, it's so interesting ...... specially when there is no sex scandal involved.

Search all the posts saying that Digi will go out of biz, they started when Gearslutz started........ and i'm sure one day in the distant future they will be true.
Along with Apple closing up shop due to pressure from Microsoft and the cheap PC hardware.
I can just read the story now..........
"Avid shuts down due to low company morale"
The Avid president said "I give up, it was just too hard. i'm gonna go sell slurpies at a 7-11 to make a living instead. The corporate world is just too tough and i'm too confused by all the gearslutz posts on what direction to take the company".

But you never know..... they may all take the golden parachute route.
Old 2nd April 2010
  #788
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Sugarnutz's Avatar
Well, whatever Avid has in store for us, I was told today that it won't be until late Q3 or Q4, maybe. I was told that "IT" hit some snags and is being delayed and I still have no clue what "IT" is going to be. I am too involved financially in building my new room to worry about a DAW right now, so I'm gonna get me a Samp 11 crossgrade to handle my remote/location work & let Digi/Avid sort it out.
Old 2nd April 2010
  #789
Just go native already for chrissakes. Oh, to be able to use that DAW freely with any hardware/interface...

Regardless of what you think of new AVID management or Digi's short-sighted but very-profitable-at-the-time decision to segment its customer base by creating a crippled/lite version in LE, the DAW is still friggin' awesome. And yeah, I know that awesomeness has now been matched and then some by a whole slew of other platforms who provide unlimited tracks and ADC standard. But for me and lot of mes like me, PT is still the best game in town in terms of workflow, editing and intuitive interface. I would even put up with the limited track count and ADC workarounds if they threw us po' M-Powered and LE kids a bone and set that puppy free to plug n' play with a Metric Halo or the ZED R series, or INSERT COOL HARDWARE MAN. HERE.

Oh well, I guess we'll see -- what is it now 3rd, 4th quarter?
Wheels
Old 2nd April 2010
  #790
Gear Addict
 
dub3000's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by tamasdragon View Post
Any proof of this?
yep.

pro tools developer jobs in ukraine for avid (check cached pages):

site:jobs.ua digidesign avid - Google Search

and via official avid jobs page:

"The Avid Pro Tools development group is seeking a talented and enthusiastic junior software engineer at its Daly City location. The successful candidate will join a medium sized team with members in both Daly City and Kiev, Ukraine"

(buried a few links in from Search for Jobs - job title is "Pro Tools Software Engineer")

not saying it's a bad thing - lots of awesome development and DSP work happens in europe (edit: and it might just be a virtual instrument team or something). just backing up the stories above, though.
Old 2nd April 2010
  #791
Gear Head
 
steveWall's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by surflounge View Post
i just pulled a $30,000 check out of my mailbox from Toyota for the music on a 15 second commercial I recorded using Amadeus and Audacity.

Finished in all 20 minutes, and I'm doing another today.

Never touched ProTools or Logic. Too complicated and slow.
Congrats on your success and all, but if you'd be so kind as to permit me a "Wtf?"

Did you just do a search for Toyota because of your nice payday and look for places to interject the news of your success? Seeing as your not a PT user, I can see no other reason for your post, or interest, in this thread.


Back to things "on topic."

I can see Avid tapping more into native power. I think it would be pretty sweet to get some sort of "auto-ping-based" delay comp on both LE and HD systems. Even the HD delay comp can be funky, especially with many people mixing hybrid these days.
Old 2nd April 2010
  #792
ouchbag, ukrainian pro tools? i've got nothing against ukrainians but they also build kia there. why? because its cheaper than korea and has no environmental or other standards of any kind. 2 of my bros bought new kias and both cars didn't last 5 years !! one could barely climb hills. pro tools = kia, LMAO !!

i've been following this thread on and off and digi/avoid's got their balls busted soo bad its shamemazing. someone said their stock is down like 400% wtf?? nobody is buying their hd gear still. i think they were hot like 5 years ago, same with waves, but now its game over. i'm not sure a native hd could save them ...

imma spend $20 000 on workflow, yaaaa
Old 2nd April 2010
  #793
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T_R_S's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by dub3000 View Post
"The Avid Pro Tools development group is seeking a talented and enthusiastic junior software engineer at its Daly City location. The successful candidate will join a medium sized team with members in both Daly City and Kiev, Ukraine"
Avid employs software engineers around the world create localized language versions of their software products.
Old 2nd April 2010
  #794
Quote:
Originally Posted by youngmain View Post
So then, would it be unwise to buy an HD system right now? I have a clientel base who would like to know. We need inside info.
Wrong place pal. Honestly. We all think we have a grasp or a man on the inside of Avid/Digi, but none of us really do. And the guys that do aren't jumping on the wagon to tell you they do. Those techs/engineers are super concerned about job security and are not going to give it up to a bunch of goobers like us, just to "let us inside."

Would it be unwise to buy an HD rig? **** no. They get cheaper everyday, both new and used. Even if Avid closed shop tomorrow, it would be at least a year or so before they completely pulled tech support [they do have contractual obligations to dealers and large purchasers like Skywalker] and at least 2 solid years before there was a real standard [and I mean STANDARD] to impact the market they way HD has. And even then, HD rigs won't be obsolete for a VERY long time. Come on. People still record to Portastudios and 888s. Oh. And these things called tape machines. I think they quit making those a while back too. Can't be certain though.
Old 2nd April 2010
  #795
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nativeaudio's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AntillesSound View Post
Would it be unwise to buy an HD rig? **** no.


[...]

Come on. People still record to Portastudios and 888s. Oh. And these things called tape machines.
IMHO there's no real link between "a product will still work even if it is being discontinued' and 'it's wise to buy it now'. Tape, portastudios, 888s still work, but I still wouldn't buy that stuff...


Anyway: There's a logical flaw in some of the criticism agains Avid here. They have been somewhat criticized for losing money, not having a healthy economy etc, and when they do something about that (let go of a lot of employees, oursource work etc), they get more pepper. In all fairness, when they address their problems - they deserve kudos, not more critique...

The fact that PTHD ($7995 list) is constantly being compared with a rival costing $499 is of course a source of some of Avid's worries, but I agree with those who say that PT will survive whatever happens. It may not be as needed/dominating etc, but it will be there, and is definitely important for people working with post.
Old 2nd April 2010
  #796
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tamasdragon's Avatar
 

Avid's open letter, just a quote:

"What is happening to the Digidesign team?
Rest assured, the same core Digidesign team of audio fanatics is still here, with offices in Daly City, CA."
Old 2nd April 2010
  #797
Moderator
 
narcoman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by nativeaudio View Post
Anyway: There's a logical flaw in some of the criticism agains Avid here. They have been somewhat criticized for losing money, not having a healthy economy etc, and when they do something about that (let go of a lot of employees, oursource work etc), they get more pepper. In all fairness, when they address their problems - they deserve kudos, not more critique...
.
yeah - i hear that a lot - funny how their balance sheet is black though!! And quite nicely black for an audio company.
Old 2nd April 2010
  #798
Deleted User
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by gregwar View Post
someone said their stock is down like 400% wtf?? nobody is buying their hd gear still. i think they were hot like 5 years ago, same with waves, but now its game over. i'm not sure a native hd could save them ...
Just FYI - stocks can never be down over 100%. Oh yeah, and there are no Eskimos at the South Pole.

The only thing that worries me about PT being coded in Kiev is that all your bank accounts will be drained after the first CS update.
Old 2nd April 2010
  #799
Gear Maniac
 

I see nothing wrong with PT being coded in Ukraine.
Eastern Europe is full of brilliant software guys.
Also...if you look at the biggest US software companies,
you'll find thousands of top programmers which are immigrants
from the Eastern Block...
Old 2nd April 2010
  #800
Gear Addict
 
NoisyNarrowBand's Avatar
 

last time I checked all those chess-wizards came from eastern europe & russia. they might build sucky cars over there, but in terms of math and software they are world class. and cheap!

sounds to me like business as usual, you go to where the talent is, at the cheapest price. just look at apple "designed in california". build in china, vietnam and who knows where.
Old 2nd April 2010
  #801
Moderator
 
narcoman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by NoisyNarrowBand View Post
last time I checked all those chess-wizards came from eastern europe & russia. they might build sucky cars over there, but in terms of math and software they are world class. and cheap!
.

yeah and programming really difficult......
Old 2nd April 2010
  #802
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cinealta's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tamasdragon View Post
Avid's open letter, just a quote:

"What is happening to the Digidesign team?
Rest assured, the same core Digidesign team of audio fanatics is still here, with offices in Daly City, CA."
The physical offices may still be there, because they are leased until September 2014, but it is only a skeleton crew there. The "core" team has long since left the building.

Digi recently closed one whole floor, of Pro Tools development, at the Daly City offices. If you've driven by that building (the one with the Jamba Juice, Starbucks, Subway, Fuddruckers etc), it is not small. Closing one whole floor is a huge headcount reduction...320 to be exact. That is 320 Pro Tools engineers let go after years of loyalty and dedication.

Their marketing budget now eclipses the product development budget. The ICON is not selling in the pro audio segment, only in the post-production segment.

Look for AVID to abandon the pro audio segment and divert all resources into vigorously pursuing the broadcast/post-production segments to remain viable (not unlike Euphonix once did).
Old 2nd April 2010
  #803
Here for the gear
 

ROTFL

Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq View Post
wow

what a thought tutt

this concept has hit me like a ton of bricks
several of those bricks are: thinking about how I never thought about it.

so, plenty of hot new PCs with the old PCI slots?

Thank you! You have offically made my day
Old 2nd April 2010
  #804
Lives for gear
 
lpkyer's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morlock View Post
I see nothing wrong with PT being coded in Ukraine.
Eastern Europe is full of brilliant software guys.
Also...if you look at the biggest US software companies,
you'll find thousands of top programmers which are immigrants
from the Eastern Block...
I totally agree. To me, it's almost racist to say that Ukrainians graduates arent smart enough to code Pro Tools, come on.....
It sucks for those who had jobs here but that's how things roll now I guess. Good for people in Kiev.
Old 2nd April 2010
  #805
Lives for gear
 
Cellotron's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morlock View Post
I see nothing wrong with PT being coded in Ukraine.
Eastern Europe is full of brilliant software guys.
Also...if you look at the biggest US software companies,
you'll find thousands of top programmers which are immigrants
from the Eastern Block...
I agree and use a few products that were coded in Russia, Poland, and China and that are indeed very good quality -
but the issue that my friend stated is the coders that were hired don't have any experience in music itself - just in writing code. That and the communication between the USA and Ukraine offices seem fairly strained.

Love it or hate it I think it's important to acknowledge that what shaped PT into what it is now is a bit of a "California" aesthetic - and that the fact that they had a lot of developers who were musicians and audio engineers as well as being coders made the end product becoming a lot more user friendly than it might have been otherwise. Whether this changes or not in the future has yet to be seen.

Best regards,
Steve Berson
Old 2nd April 2010
  #806
Gear Nut
 
Lazarus Long's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jamwerks View Post
native has equal or less latency than HD.
Simply put: false.
Old 2nd April 2010
  #807
Lives for gear
 

well, after the recent development regarding plugins on the mac side to now go with the long standing pc side- DSP cards (HD or next incarnation, uad2, etc.) will be here to stay or plugin manufacturers will dry up.
Old 2nd April 2010
  #808
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dualflip's Avatar
 

To be honest i think digidesign (Avid) is one of the most greedy and cocky corporations out there, so what im trying to say is that my idea of digi is that they dont care if reality bites them in the ass, they will still be selling HD and LE as it is with minor improvements and they are probably laughing right now about the PT NE idea...

Ive met a lot of digidesign's employees and the true devoted ones think that digi is the best company on earth and that the things they do are crippled for a reason other than just making money, one employee once told me back in the 6.0 days "we limit le to 32 voices because its meant for the homerecordists, and home recordists dont need more than that", digi is telling their employees that idea and they are buying it, they dont want to think about the money making machine digi is, and we should also consider, that digi's employees attitude are only reflecting the entire digi corporation philosophy. So do i think that digi(avid?) will come to their senses and bring in something like you guys mentioned ? The answer is No in the near future...

However switching to Logic is not the way to go at least not for now, in the studio, the producer i work for, works and worships logic, and i do understand it in a production sense. However the times i was asked to mix in logic, i did it, and let me tell you this: the routing is a pain in the ass compared to PT, the automation is a total piece of crap and the editing and zoom features are just time consuming. Do i like it? sure it has a lot of cool things but i wouldnt switch to logic, not yet, not from a mixing perspective at least. Digi knows this and knows that their main "friend" is the mixer, so i would say that until logic really knocks the hell out of PT or at least level in with it in editing and mixing enviroments, digi wont consider doing a crazy move...
Old 2nd April 2010
  #809
Moderator
 
narcoman's Avatar
 

such is business!!
Old 2nd April 2010
  #810
kdp
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morlock View Post
I see nothing wrong with PT being coded in Ukraine.
Eastern Europe is full of brilliant software guys.
Also...if you look at the biggest US software companies,
you'll find thousands of top programmers which are immigrants
from the Eastern Block...
Maybe Avid can get the Steinberg guys to help em out.thumbsup
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