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Digidesign Pro Tools Next Move Audio Interfaces
Old 1st April 2010
  #751
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cinealta View Post
Digidesign will likely re-brand Pro Tools as strictly a consumer product with ultra low cost ($99) USB packages available at Best Buy etc. Maybe a Behringer, Numark or Harmon may want to buy Digi for some consumer mileage.
I don't agree with this "race to the bottom" scenario. Whenever companies start selling their product for less and less, development seems to come to a halt.

Avid/Digi has a GREAT product in Pro Tools HD and I hope they continue to develop and market it as the top of the line.

OK, maybe a little less expensive, though.
Old 1st April 2010
  #752
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mbradzick's Avatar
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the consumer see computers moving closer and closer to running "top of the line" natively? I know editors do with FCP.

Will anyone need DSP processing in the near future given the rate of technology? Am I alone in thinking that Pro Tools would be outstanding as an all-native, unlocked solution like all the other DAWs?

I think the only ones painting themselves into a corner are Digi, with their "our-hardware-only" policy. Their DAW is fantastic but I don't think it's surviving the current business model.
Old 1st April 2010
  #753
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Edwards's Avatar
 

Yeah, the our hardware only policy is really what is eating me these days. If I can get 16-24 channels through an analog board into a high quality interface of my choice, and there are a lot out there now from Metric Halo, Prism, Apogee, etc. AND use Pro Tools, I would be one happy camper.
Old 1st April 2010
  #754
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PMoshay's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by songbirdsound View Post
Am I alone in thinking that Pro Tools would be outstanding as an all-native, unlocked solution like all the other DAWs?

I think the only ones painting themselves into a corner are Digi, with their "our-hardware-only" policy. Their DAW is fantastic but I don't think it's surviving the current business model.
Who you gonna call when your Apogee interface or other manufacturer's does not work with the unlocked version of PT? Do you think Digi is gonna provide tech support free to figure out why your Presonus interface does not work right? Are they gonna R&D and approve other peoples interfaces now?Not sure if thats the best plan for Digi, and some other companies models don't just overlay onto any companies plan. I like companies that think first, then act....... But we'll see.

Could be pandoras box opening - - - or Heavens gate?

and i'm not seeing that Digi's hardware is as bad as people are making it out to seem....... also considering that so many fantastic albums have been made with it for a long time now. I find no fault with HD other than i'd like a 32x32 i/o interface with all the bells & whistles.
Yes, i like Radar converters better, but thats another topic.

Protools Native unlocked sounds good, lots of questions of how that could change the company and the way it works........ i'm sure they are thinking it all thru and don't really need another post telling them what to do.
Old 1st April 2010
  #755
PDC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq View Post
You have to sell 30 MBoxes to equal one HD system. Even if your store covers that ratio, I bet Avid's margins are higher, and those clients are good for extra cards, more 192's for I/O, control surfaces, plugs and so on, while the M-boxers are maybe looking to buy a mic next.
You are telling me that 25 points x30 for an M-box is more money than selling one HD rig? NO WAY! I have seen plenty of deals where dealers are selling HD at cost, getting the rebate check from Digi on the backside. There is more profit on the low end. All of the big ticket system buyers want it for cost or darn near.

If you grow your customers, it is one mic, then something else, then something else, then bigger and better, then.....It's all about the next sale. If any store or manufacture stops thinking about development and concentrates on the single pop, they will die. We make FAAAAAR more money on the beginners. Why does Guitar Center sell so much crap to the bottom feeders? There is an infinite supply. There is not an infinite supply of high end users with cash to buy consistently. This is why Digi needs the volume. This is why the great shops that sell high end are fewer.
Old 1st April 2010
  #756
PDC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Studio Addict View Post
I don't agree with this "race to the bottom" scenario. Whenever companies start selling their product for less and less, development seems to come to a halt.

Avid/Digi has a GREAT product in Pro Tools HD and I hope they continue to develop and market it as the top of the line.

OK, maybe a little less expensive, though.
Have you been to Best Buy? They sell MI. M-audio is there.
Old 1st April 2010
  #757
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Suda Badri's Avatar
 

Does it really matter about the "unlocking" native thing, mackie already boasts to have cracked the code... now they just have to sell it... and end users who want to try probably wont get support from either camp... I personally would like to see high end converter brands crack the code for protools m-pow LE.... because HD guys can already use whatever converter they want...

and if they sorted out their no automatic latency thing on the software side that will be awesome

Onyx-i Series FireWire Recording Mixers
Old 1st April 2010
  #758
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nativeaudio's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq View Post

You have to sell 30 MBoxes to equal one HD system.
But Avid can't be planning to make a high-end native system based on mBoxes. Also, if they make a highend interface that competes with Lynx Aurora or Apogee's X-series, and do not lock it to use with PT, they could even sell their I/O to ex-Digidesign users like myself.

Quote:
Avid's strategy is exactly the same as any business- to do what is best for them.
Unfortunately for a lot of companies, strategy and real life results don't always match.


Quote:
To say "their best interest is to: (give me more and charge me less)" is just crazy talk.
In many cases, 'give the customers more and charge less' is exactly what's needed to make money, and in terms of anything that's computer based, 'give the customers more and charge less' must be the best description of what has actually happened in the computer world since computers were invented.
Old 1st April 2010
  #759
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cinealta's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tamasdragon View Post
It is somewhat funny to see that many just thinks that avid/digi is over.
Well, Dave Lebolt, Peter Gorges and Scott Church are all really smart guys. If anyone in the Valley, can save Digi, it's those guys.

Dave Lebolt is one of the best DAW technologists of all time. He's probably in his Silicon Valley office right now, developing the next generation cutting edge DAW. One with hand-in-glove hardware integration, express/lite versions for mobile computing platforms (cel phones/tablets) and workgroup/multi-user project coordination (DAW as a service/in the cloud) features.

Digi never misses an impressive AES presence. Perhaps, look for all these cutting edge features at London in May?
Old 1st April 2010
  #760
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PMoshay's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suda Badri View Post
HD guys can already use whatever converter they want...
What about Lightpipe into a converter or Spdif using LE? You can get 18 outs in LE.
Or just buy Logic or (insert DAW software here) and get as many as you can afford really.

People obsess over the DAW's......... you can make a album in Garageband these days and still have no excuse. Dam we're spoiled.
Old 1st April 2010
  #761
Deleted User
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by cinealta View Post
Well, Dave Lebolt, Peter Gorges and Scott Church are all really smart guys. If anyone in the Valley, can save Digi, it's those guys.

Dave Lebolt is one of the best DAW technologists of all time. He's probably in his Silicon Valley office right now, developing the next generation cutting edge DAW. One with hand-in-glove hardware integration, express/lite versions for mobile computing platforms (cel phones/tablets) and workgroup/multi-user project coordination (DAW as a service/in the cloud) features.
1. Dave Lebolt is gone, now with Apple
2. Scott Church is gone, now with Universal Audio I think
Old 1st April 2010
  #762
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nativeaudio's Avatar
 

Yes, all these three have apparently left Avid... but both this and looking at Avid's financial reports don't have to mean much. Maybe they can afford to lose money for a few years, and is launching something great in 2011. Maybe even some of the hundreds of Avid employees that don't work there anymore have contributed to some of the problems the company has had? I have no idea.

What matters is pretty much what people need vs. what Avid actually can deliver - at what price (and when they can do it).
Old 1st April 2010
  #763
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PMoshay's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by cinealta View Post
(DAW as a service/in the cloud) features.
Cloud computing....... 1980's technology........ aka: a server that runs applications, like we all use everyday.

I love how you can re-name something with a trendy, non discript name and actually say that it is a new invention / technology.
Old 1st April 2010
  #764
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cinealta's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by PMoshay View Post
Cloud computing....... 1980's technology........ aka: a server that runs applications, like we all use everyday.

I love how you can re-name something with a trendy, non discript name and actually say that it is a new invention / technology.
That's not correct:

1) In a Client/Server system, each computer on the network has a copy of the actual application installed on it (eg Pro Tools) and data is transferred.

2) In Cloud computing, each computer accessing the server (thin client) only has a Browser installed on it (eg Firefox, Explorer etc), not the actual program. The actual program only runs on the central server and re-draws Browser windows on the computers accessing it.
Old 1st April 2010
  #765
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PMoshay's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by cinealta View Post
The actual program only runs on the central server and re-draws Browser windows on the computers accessing it.
Thats even more comforting. My next DAW is gonna be Safari based.
Featuring "Ad-Ware for added income"

Larry Ellison talks about "Cloud Computing"
Old 1st April 2010
  #766
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Suda Badri's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by PMoshay View Post
Dam we're spoiled.
Aint that the truth! I cant believe people moan as much as they do.... but I moan too... so...
Old 1st April 2010
  #767
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kurt's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by songbirdsound View Post
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the consumer see computers moving closer and closer to running "top of the line" natively? I know editors do with FCP.

Will anyone need DSP processing in the near future given the rate of technology? Am I alone in thinking that Pro Tools would be outstanding as an all-native, unlocked solution like all the other DAWs?

I think the only ones painting themselves into a corner are Digi, with their "our-hardware-only" policy. Their DAW is fantastic but I don't think it's surviving the current business model.
FCP is a program. Allowing you to edit what have been captured using thousand's & millions ($) in hardware. PT is all in one recording & mixing solution. Aside for those collecting & shuffling loops. For those who run a recording studio.
Old 1st April 2010
  #768
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hepcat View Post
I don't know, it seems like Apple just knows how to beat everybody in quality and affordability.
Thanks, I needed the laugh!
Old 1st April 2010
  #769
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Suda Badri's Avatar
 

Old 1st April 2010
  #770
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tamasdragon's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by cinealta View Post
Well, Dave Lebolt, Peter Gorges and Scott Church are all really smart guys. If anyone in the Valley, can save Digi, it's those guys.

Dave Lebolt is one of the best DAW technologists of all time. He's probably in his Silicon Valley office right now, developing the next generation cutting edge DAW. One with hand-in-glove hardware integration, express/lite versions for mobile computing platforms (cel phones/tablets) and workgroup/multi-user project coordination (DAW as a service/in the cloud) features.

Digi never misses an impressive AES presence. Perhaps, look for all these cutting edge features at London in May?
Dave LeBolt. I hear many positive things, and also many negative things about him. Not about the person itself, but his work. Afaik, pt le's limitation was also his big job, so...

Scott Church is a very nice guy, did many good things at digi. He got a better offer. That's it. He was never a core developer there, though I still miss him.

Peter Gorges left air group before the release of pt8, just it wasn't advertised. It wasn't because of avid.

You picked 3 well known. But what about the talents who are still there? Or do you think that these 3 people did everything?
Old 1st April 2010
  #771
Moderator
 
narcoman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Byre View Post
Instead of making some of the more absurd statements that some of you make here, why don't you read the CFO and CEO reports?

And when you've done that, then have a look here -

Yahoo! Finance UK (Brackets indicate a minus, all figures in thousands.)

The ask yourself one question -if that was YOUR money, your kids college fund, your pension fund, what would you want the CEO to do?

Remember that they sell several thousand lite versions for every HD and then you will realise what they will have to do.
BUT the point being the home and amateur market is becoming impossible to compete in..... You cant use numbers from 2007 to indicate ALONE where to go. I certainly wouldn't run my business on that basis alone!! Running a business is about educated speculation on where the market place is going......Maybe that's why I make money.......
Old 1st April 2010
  #772
Quote:
Originally Posted by songbirdsound View Post
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the consumer see computers moving closer and closer to running "top of the line" natively? I know editors do with FCP.
There's only so much you can do with a native FCP system though still, even with a stupid-fast computer. To ingest/export, monitor, and transcode in some cases you still need add-on hardware which ranges from cheap to expensive. That's why companies like Matrox, Blackmagic, AJA etc exist.

That said, with an IT-based workflow there is still a LOT you can do, of course.

On the upside, you're not tied to ONE BRAND of hardware... except for the computer.
Old 1st April 2010
  #773
Moderator
 
narcoman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by terminal3 View Post
There's only so much you can do with a native FCP system though still, even with a stupid-fast computer. To ingest/export, monitor, and transcode in some cases you still need add-on hardware which ranges from cheap to expensive. That's why companies like Matrox, Blackmagic, AJA etc exist.

That said, with an IT-based workflow there is still a LOT you can do, of course.

On the upside, you're not tied to ONE BRAND of hardware... except for the computer.
true. I dont see many FCP systems (for that read ANY) on any of the work I'm involved in.....
Old 1st April 2010
  #774
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mbradzick's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by narcoman View Post
true. I dont see many FCP systems (for that read ANY) on any of the work I'm involved in.....
Really? In LA, yeah, you have the major big buget films still using Avid but all the work I've been involved with has been on FCP as productions go for lower and lower cost.

Granted I'm not an editor and I haven't worked on major studio projects. And I do hear, again, that Avid is still used for a certain echelon of movies. However I see a ton of FCP productions here in the states. Obviously can be different elsewhere.

And as far as offloading processing to external hardware, sure I can see the benefit in that given the size of the files and needed throughput. But my perspective is not that Digi can't give you un-tethered software, it's that they won't. And because studios not only find what they bought 7 years ago to be perfectly fine now and the future, as well as many of those studios closing, it's obviously affecting their bottom line. This has nothing to do with opinion BTW...I'm a PT user.

I think Avid saw the need for Media Composer following the given climate...

Avid Media Composer Software
Old 1st April 2010
  #775
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cinealta's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tamasdragon View Post
You picked 3 well known. But what about the talents who are still there? Or do you think that these 3 people did everything?
Pro Tools is now being coded in Kiev, Ukraine. I only knew of the California team (Daly City/south San Francisco). Perhaps, the Ukrainian team has some star programmers/developers, as well?
Old 1st April 2010
  #776
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by-tor's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by shanabit View Post
1. Dave Lebolt is gone, now with Apple
2. Scott Church is gone, now with Universal Audio I think

Dave Lebolt has already left Apple.
Old 1st April 2010
  #777
Quote:
Originally Posted by by-tor View Post
Dave Lebolt has already left Apple.
He probably wanted to cripple Logic on lower-end computers.
Old 1st April 2010
  #778
Deleted User
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by by-tor View Post
Dave Lebolt has already left Apple.
Wow!!!!! That says a lot
Old 1st April 2010
  #779
Lives for gear
To Kenny and the rest of the board.

So then, would it be unwise to buy an HD system right now? I have a clientel base who would like to know. We need inside info. You know how I feel bout avid but this calls for preventative measures.
Old 1st April 2010
  #780
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tamasdragon's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by cinealta View Post
Pro Tools is now being coded in Kiev, Ukraine. I only knew of the California team (Daly City/south San Francisco). Perhaps, the Ukrainian team has some star programmers/developers, as well?
Come on. This was a rumour.

First it was a team in India, than Ukraine. But this was just speculation.
And by the way, yes, I'm sure that there are many highly talented developers in both country though.
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