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Digidesign Pro Tools Next Move Audio Interfaces
Old 15th January 2010
  #631
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff D. View Post
- The booth was 1/4 the size of last year, and was filled with benches and tables instead of equipment. The salesman I talked to said that AVID was getting more personal with their customers, hence the benches.
So they did ship a new product after all. Avid "Spin."



Oh and the "birdy" up above sounds very much like my own predictions, which makes me disinclined to believe them. I.e. I suspect that's just an echo of my own speculation. But maybe I am on the mark?
Old 15th January 2010
  #632
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spicemix View Post
It is only an industry standard amongst shared facilities. The session file format is also standard, for the moment, amongst people who frequent them. .
??? did you actually say anything, here? You have a bright future ... in politics!

Quote:
But for most DAW usage it isn't standard...the most installed DAW is Garageband, and the most used DAW is probably pirated copies of Cubase on Windows. It's hard to get solid statistics on usage patterns.
I am having a hard time considering teenagers in their bedrooms who use Garage Band and pirated copies of Cubase as the "industry" to which a "standard" applies.


But thank you for giving me my first opportunity to use the new FACEPALM smilie!
Old 15th January 2010
  #633
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It is really getting boring. Oh, they fail because nothing serious introduced at namm. So what?
They will introduce things, when they are ready. That's it.
We are not little kids now, who are waiting for christmas, waiting for Santa. This topic was fun at beginning, but this speculation-bashing is getting so childish now.
Of course imho.
Old 15th January 2010
  #634
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LMS View Post
i'm hearing a birdy say something about a new expansion system that will replace pthd and be a native based system since the macs have become so fast, the hd card based "host power" isn't necesary and the tdm or hd plugs are not either.

anyone else heard the birdy???
Yes, I've heard it. Twice a year, or so.
Old 15th January 2010
  #635
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq View Post
All that is required for something to be Industry Standard is that people believe it to be Industry Standard.
An Industry is required, too.
Old 15th January 2010
  #636
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spicemix View Post
So they did ship a new product after all. Avid "Spin."
lol.

Getting more jiggy with their customers, hence the benches = euphamism for no money to spend?...

Quote:
Originally Posted by author View Post
An Industry is required, too.
True - and that Industry has changed massively, as Avid are finding out.
Old 16th January 2010
  #637
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DONNX View Post
I just hope PT 9 isn't offered to us until they work all the bugs and crashes.


Don' t want another PT 8 nightmare.
EXACTLY! PT8 LE is UNUSABLE on my Windows 7 PC.....Reaper, Sonar, FL8 and all my other drivers/sw work fine. Not so with PTLE....PITA!!!!

I have a $2,500 door stopper....but, I installed it on my Mac Mini, it works great!

Is it more of a Windows 7 thing? I have a Quad Core that I bought for PTLE, it just crashes all the time is unusable!
Old 16th January 2010
  #638
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Bob Olhsson's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanRock101 View Post
EXACTLY! PT8 LE is UNUSABLE on my Windows 7 PC..!
PT 8.03 is beta for windoze 7.

They have said that it works on a lot of systems but not on some. Hopefully you have reported your problems to them so they can get it sorted out.
Old 16th January 2010
  #639
PDC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanRock101 View Post
EXACTLY! PT8 LE is UNUSABLE on my Windows 7 PC.....Reaper, Sonar, FL8 and all my other drivers/sw work fine. Not so with PTLE....PITA!!!!

I have a $2,500 door stopper!
Did you confirm with Digi that your hardware and PTLE will jive with Windoze7? There are too many LE systems used successfully to condemn it. I suspect that you do not have a system that meets LEs requirements.

This is what I like about this place. People shoot off their mouths when they have not done their homework and think that they know more than the people that make the product.
Old 16th January 2010
  #640
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nirvana5253 View Post
I think some have mentioned it a bit - the music industry is undoubtedly changing- studios closing left and right, freelance work becoming more prevalent, everyone and their grandma being a producer.....
Hey, my grandma sets up my patch bay for me, but I wouldn't call that "being a producer"!
Old 20th January 2010
  #641
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A little birdy told me - this is coming Q4 this year. New Smart Tools... Warm Audio Tracks... 96 channel i/o and self cleaning at that!



.

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/5010633-post39.html
Old 20th January 2010
  #642
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So, every kid waited for the namm? heh
I guess than almost every other company sucks...
Old 29th March 2010
  #643
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Look

I will be AVID about this company that rolls out pro tools software embedded with Dung like hardware; they are leaches. Yes, I use pro tools like most of us here because its the "standard." Cool, I have no problem with the standard we have put ourselves in. What I do have a complaint about is these companies not putting out systems that can compete against the revered pro tools software! BOO HOO, we can't match performance etc... Bull ****ing ****. These companies could have easily rolled out software to rival pro tools or even surpass it. Never did. Symphony reeks to me. Its a bipartisan committee of corporate mongers. Hence, Avid can continue charging $5,000 for an obsolete Core card that costs no more than $100 to make. Lets be sincere, they do not make music, we do. They sell products. They give a rats ****ing ass about music. If I had the money, I would smash there products on youtube. Until then, I am a supporter of this capitalistic hoarding company.
Old 29th March 2010
  #644
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Quote:
Originally Posted by youngmain View Post
What I do have a complaint about is these companies not putting out systems that can compete against the revered pro tools software!
you obviously haven't been paying attention to the forums - people are jumping ship to other software and being fine with it.

there are still things that PT does better than anything else - anything for film or surround IMHO, for example, or lots (32+) of simultaneous inputs with FX - but there are some very good alternatives available these days.
Old 29th March 2010
  #645
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dub3000 View Post
you obviously haven't been paying attention to the forums - people are jumping ship to other software and being fine with it.

there are still things that PT does better than anything else - anything for film or surround IMHO, for example, or lots (32+) of simultaneous inputs with FX - but there are some very good alternatives available these days.
+1 Almost everyone I have talked to about the future of Pro Tools is starting to care less at this point. A few people have mentioned some concern about the learning curve of moving to a different DAW and when the best time to transition out of their HD systems would be, but it seems like most people have seen the writing on the wall for a while now so this is not exactly a surprise. I have been using multiple DAW's for a few years now and I think that has helped prevent some of the irrational overcommitment to a "industry standard" (as if that is even a meaningful term in an industry that can no longer sustain itself) that I have seen from some.
Old 29th March 2010
  #646
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dub3000 View Post
you obviously haven't been paying attention to the forums - people are jumping ship to other software and being fine with it.
but no studios are. None that earn.... Nuendo , great product - hasn't made a dent in the post market which is still PTHD dominated. Same with all those (rather good) control surfaces. I come across more ICONs than ANY other control surface.

Reaper? Starting to really like it ... but I've not yet seen or worked on any media product that is using it. Sony SCEE have been talking for two years about canning protools - but they still haven't!!

Logic? The mainstay of pop - the smallest area in the recording world.

The DAW fight only exists in the composer realm - whether that be pop or the huge army of lone soundtrack boys..... outside of that it's PT, Sadie and Radar - with the occasional Fairlight system (the best of the bunch actually!!)

PT isn't going anywhere: pop music has a cross the board share of DAWs - but VO, post and nearly all media work (from video games to movies) is PT HD. With the margins now being made - that isn't going to change either. AVID/Digi/whatever only have to offer a useful $10k upgrade and it wipes the floor with any other meaningful upgrade to Fairlight CC systems (even though it's brilliant!!) or other similar solutions. The Logic/Cubase etc etc systems of this world are just not used on any meaningful $$ product..... as I say - pop music is the smallest market sector.
Old 29th March 2010
  #647
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Quote:
Originally Posted by narcoman View Post
but no studios are. None that earn.... Nuendo , great product - hasn't made a dent in the post market which is still PTHD dominated. Same with all those (rather good) control surfaces. I come across more ICONs than ANY other control surface.

Reaper? Starting to really like it ... but I've not yet seen or worked on any media product that is using it. Sony SCEE have been talking for two years about canning protools - but they still haven't!!

Logic? The mainstay of pop - the smallest area in the recording world.

The DAW fight only exists in the composer realm - whether that be pop or the huge army of lone soundtrack boys..... outside of that it's PT, Sadie and Radar - with the occasional Fairlight system (the best of the bunch actually!!)

PT isn't going anywhere: pop music has a cross the board share of DAWs - but VO, post and nearly all media work (from video games to movies) is PT HD. With the margins now being made - that isn't going to change either. AVID/Digi/whatever only have to offer a useful $10k upgrade and it wipes the floor with any other meaningful upgrade to Fairlight CC systems (even though it's brilliant!!) or other similar solutions. The Logic/Cubase etc etc systems of this world are just not used on any meaningful $$ product..... as I say - pop music is the smallest market sector.
apologies - i'm definitely approaching this from a music perspective. i totally understand that at the top end of the market (soundtracks/film/tv/surround/etc), there really isn't much that touches PT. but i really think that's mainly down to inertia rather than any serious technical advantage.
Old 29th March 2010
  #648
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nativeaudio's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by narcoman View Post
Logic? The mainstay of pop - the smallest area in the recording world.


Most people I know who work professionally with Logic doesn't work with pop music. Even in small places, where there may be only be one person working with post, there are loads of people with a computer and eg. Cubase, Logic, Live or PTLE.

On another note, it's interesting that so many people now assume that Avid's next move will be a high-end native version of PT. In the two year old poll we have about the same topic, only 8% believed that their next move would be to do that:
What do you think Digidesign's next move will be?
Old 29th March 2010
  #649
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I think Digi made a giant step with PT8, I have logic 8, 9 Cubase 4 and I end up using PT8 every time. Its just the easiest and the best out there for me. I don't use PT because its a somewhat standard, rather use it because I like it.
Old 29th March 2010
  #650
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Quote:
Originally Posted by narcoman View Post
Logic? The mainstay of pop - the smallest area in the recording world.
Old 29th March 2010
  #651
PDC
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From what I hear from my source at Digi, morale is low, more lay-offs and outsourcing is supposedly on the way. They have an elitist mentality and like IBM have been slow to change the business model. But, I feel their pain. We all bitchn'moan here when a company leaves previous software, form and function behind to release something new. Where do they draw the line in the sand? How does Digi please the people that bought Mix rigs 15 years ago and the LE who purchased yesterday?

Digi is supposedly releasing a bunch of new interfaces this year. Think Eleven rack. Purpose built boxes with internal processing, scalable and networkable within PT. That's the unofficial word I hear. HD and LE will basically morph at some point to one line.
Old 29th March 2010
  #652
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PDC View Post
From what I hear from my source at Digi, morale is low, more lay-offs and outsourcing is supposedly on the way. They have an elitist mentality and like IBM have been slow to change the business model. But, I feel their pain. We all bitchn'moan here when a company leaves previous software, form and function behind to release something new. Where do they draw the line in the sand? How does Digi please the people that bought Mix rigs 15 years ago and the LE who purchased yesterday?

Digi is supposedly releasing a bunch of new interfaces this year. Think Eleven rack. Purpose built boxes with internal processing, scalable and networkable within PT. That's the unofficial word I hear. HD and LE will basically morph at some point to one line.
I don't know, (no offense), but this "morale is low, more layoffs on the way", I'm skeptical. We heard this many times, even when nothing happened. And everybody I know don't talk things like this. Of course it still can be true, but this is reminds me to that rumour that digi fire coders to hire young coders from india and ukraine. That was also a so called insider info...

Not sure about the new interface, if it will be that good, than I welcome it. heh
Old 29th March 2010
  #653
Gear Maniac
 
kilroyrock's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by youngmain View Post
I will be AVID about this company that rolls out pro tools software embedded with Dung like hardware; they are leaches. Yes, I use pro tools like most of us here because its the "standard." Cool, I have no problem with the standard we have put ourselves in. What I do have a complaint about is these companies not putting out systems that can compete against the revered pro tools software! BOO HOO, we can't match performance etc... Bull ****ing ****. These companies could have easily rolled out software to rival pro tools or even surpass it. Never did. Symphony reeks to me. Its a bipartisan committee of corporate mongers. Hence, Avid can continue charging $5,000 for an obsolete Core card that costs no more than $100 to make. Lets be sincere, they do not make music, we do. They sell products. They give a rats ****ing ass about music. If I had the money, I would smash there products on youtube. Until then, I am a supporter of this capitalistic hoarding company.
Wow, tell us how you really feel!
Old 29th March 2010
  #654
Moderator
 
narcoman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dub3000 View Post
apologies - i'm definitely approaching this from a music perspective. i totally understand that at the top end of the market (soundtracks/film/tv/surround/etc), there really isn't much that touches PT. but i really think that's mainly down to inertia rather than any serious technical advantage.
Absolutely. Any technical advantages PT has are only from the perspective of "it has them" and "others dont"..... not at all to do with any creative or other stuff. PTHD sits with products like Sadie, Radar and the Fairlight systems in terms of timecode and routing facilities. In terms of music creation - no advantage whatsoever.
Old 29th March 2010
  #655
Moderator
 
narcoman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by PDC View Post
From what I hear from my source at Digi, morale is low, more lay-offs and outsourcing is supposedly on the way. They have an elitist mentality and like IBM have been slow to change the business model. But, I feel their pain. We all bitchn'moan here when a company leaves previous software, form and function behind to release something new. Where do they draw the line in the sand? How does Digi please the people that bought Mix rigs 15 years ago and the LE who purchased yesterday?

Digi is supposedly releasing a bunch of new interfaces this year. Think Eleven rack. Purpose built boxes with internal processing, scalable and networkable within PT. That's the unofficial word I hear. HD and LE will basically morph at some point to one line.

But unlike IBM they are a small company!! The music democratisation money making is over - it's done. All the bedroom boys have their DAWs. The professional market - although a LOT smaller - is the only one that changes with the times and the only one that is worth addressing. Scrabbling over peanut systems is just a waste of resources....

Moreover - the DAW companies are of course going to be at the back end of the whole devaluing of music and media as a viable product source. All of the DAW and other equipment manufacturers aiming at the hobby market are now in a saturated market..... so naturally the big sales of 1999 in a world where all the little studios and lone composers are now as set up as they need to be are done. Makes sense for AVID/Digi to downsize. I'd like them to focus more on the professional needs and drop the whole budget line completely....
Old 29th March 2010
  #656
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narcoman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jamwerks View Post
why the facepalm? Pop music creation IS the smallest area. VO work, ads, religious broadcast, soundtrack work - that's where the big numbers are employed (and not in Paris either). You're showing a distinct "out of touch with reality" face palm there !!
Old 29th March 2010
  #657
Moderator
 
narcoman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by nativeaudio View Post
Most people I know who work professionally with Logic doesn't work with pop music. Even in small places, where there may be only be one person working with post, there are loads of people with a computer and eg. Cubase, Logic, Live or PTLE.
Precisely my point. Logic is the mainstay of the one man operations. A good product - but not being used where the money is. I've NEVER seen logic in a VO workplace, or a foley room or a post room.....
Old 29th March 2010
  #658
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jamwerks's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by narcoman View Post
VO work, ads, religious broadcast, soundtrack work - that's where the big numbers are employed)
So you think that the above represents the "big numbers" of daw users?
I respectfully think that you're out of touch.

I would bet (just guessing here) that for every "post" user (what you stated plus studios, etc) there are more than 10 (EDIT 100) "pre" users (playing and/or creating) music.
Old 29th March 2010
  #659
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Quote:
Originally Posted by narcoman View Post
Precisely my point. Logic is the mainstay of the one man operations. A good product - but not being used where the money is. I've NEVER seen logic in a VO workplace, or a foley room or a post room.....
I think we may talk about two different topics... What is a market? For a DAW manufacturer, it actually matters a lot if 12 people share one DAW, or if 12 people have one DAW each. The big market is what the masses use, and at the moment, the tendency is clear: most people don't need TDM cards etc. High-end studios monitoring through mixers don't either, and with today's DSP power etc, most TDM users don't acually even need TDM that much. Lots of people still prefer PTHD, but thats another topic.

IMO you talk about the tinyest segment of the recording world, and that area is IMHO, the small amount of studios that are recording and doing final mixes for signed artists at proper hourly rates. These studios represent an endangered species, which has nothing to do with whether PT or Logic is best an all that.

Most of them had tape some years ago, now most of them have PT (and one or two native DAWs, for compatibility). There's a tendency to move towards native even in high-ends studios now (but obviously not everywhere). Avid's dilemma may be that the moment they announce a high-end, native version of PT, they also signalize that loads of people pri DAW users don't really need DSP cards anymore. This will boost native PT sales, reduce PTHD sales, and also boost sales of other native systems.

I've worked on some movies where the music is composed, recorded and mixed in Logic, and delivered in stems as audio files, where PT is being used in post for the final work. These companies don't represent a large amount of users in most parts of the world, and in days like these, the number of sold DAWs actually count more than they usually do. Highe end studios can charge a lot more, but also have a lot more expenses, so whatever way you look at it, even if they are getting good rates still, they can't put these hourly rates in their pockets.

Cubase has become very good on PC now, and DP and Nuendo users are happy as well. The reason foley rooms and post houses use PT isn't only the stuff PT can do in this area which eg. Logic cannnot, it's that they already know and use PT, which is why tape survived longer than it needed to in high-end studios. PT will survive as well, but things are already changing in the industry. A lot.

At some point people simply won't care much if there's another DAW out there with 0.* ms less latency or some fancy feature some other DAW currently don't have. Ease of use, workflow, stability and 'inspiration factor' is much more important, and this is where Apple could represent a threat for Avid, since Logic is rapidly becoming more and more Apple like. But Avid knows this already, which bodes for an interesting next year. And Apple must know that Avid knows and so on...

As an ex, long-time TDM user I'm somehow interested in those discusions today, but if a new PT version would be launched or a new, fancy DAW concept would be announced by Avid, lots of non-PT users wouldn't start speculating about changing DAW, because this isn't the 90's anymore: Most of us can do what we need to get done (and much more) with the gear we already have. It's all about making it easier and more fun, which definitely wasn't the case when TDM was launched.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jamwerks View Post
I would bet (just guessing here) that for every "post" user (what you stated plus studios, etc) there are more than 10 "pre" users (playing and/or creating) music.
A well renowned DAW dealer told me last year that they sold 20 Logic systems for each TDM system they sold.
Old 29th March 2010
  #660
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Digi is currently working on "Pro Tools LA"

It is slated to be a stripped down version of PTLE, and will substitute the RTAS plug-ins for a a series of wires connected to the tootsie roll centers centers of tootsie pops, acting as a series of audio filters.

The ADC issue is thereby also solved, as there is negligible propagation delay in caramelized glucose products.

A new line of A/D & D/A converters will grace the Mbox3 (PTLA's updated interface), designed by what Digidesign describes as "a sharp bunch of kids - we're enthused about what they were able to do with a bunch of matchsticks and tinfoil once they stopped running with scissors and swallowing their bubblegum."

"Pro Tools Lame Ass" (PTLA) is the next step in series of brilliant revisions to Digi's Pro Tools LE format.

Expect it soon!

___________________

As a former PT Mix24 user who didn't ante up the extremely inflated prices for PTHD, I switched to PTLE for a while until Digi hobbled PTLE into uselessness. Thanks Digi! You've always been the biggest @$$holes in the audio biz with your phone support - now you bring this ethic directly to the user!

I hope Digi/Avid looks at these posts.

I just picked up a new Mac, and went straight for Logic 9. It'll be a learning curve, but I'm ready. The h*ll with Digi.

Had to rant that out.
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