The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
Digidesign Pro Tools Next Move Audio Interfaces
Old 14th January 2010
  #601
Lives for gear
 
Avening's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemonsqueezer View Post
Has it though? Has it really taken away resources? Or are you just speculating?
Incoming revenue must be allocated. The below comment describes where the lions share of revenue lies and is allocated.

= Less revenue, and therefore less resources for HD. More focus and money on satisfying the never-ending needs of the LE user base.

Quote:
Originally Posted by terminal3 View Post
If anything, I'd say that the cash Avid/Digi generates from LE sales keeps HD/TDM users in resources...
Old 14th January 2010
  #602
Lives for gear
 
Lemonsqueezer's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avening View Post
Incoming revenue must be allocated. The below comment describes where the lions share of revenue lies and is allocated.

= Less revenue, and therefore less resources for HD. More focus and money on satisfying the never-ending needs of the LE user base.

We got figures for this?
Old 14th January 2010
  #603
Lives for gear
 
Avening's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemonsqueezer View Post
We got figures for this?
Me personally? No.

Would be kind of interesting to see them though ...
Old 14th January 2010
  #604
Lives for gear
 
PMoshay's Avatar
 

Avid does not report what specifically there sales are (LE vs HD vs Video Products, etc) If you look at this 2 year report, you can see that the video income has been the lion share. They have been loosing money for the past 2 years. Looks like the biggest expense is marketing.
I'm sure that this will bring a whole new target to this discussion.

Here's a link to their financial report.
http://files.shareholder.com/downloa...ent_Q22009.pdf
Old 14th January 2010
  #605
Lives for gear
 

Here is the main SEC filing page for Avid:

Avid Technology, Inc. - Financial Information

Video is no longer "the lion's share" but instead sells in some recent quarters less products and more installation/support services than audio. Sales for both are down, video is down more.

Over the last 9 reported months, video sold $186M and audio $182M in product. Video was down 42% for that period, audio down 16.5% vs. the prior year.

Final Cut Pro is seen as undercutting those video product sales. Logic can do the same to the audio sales.
Old 14th January 2010
  #606
Lives for gear
Protools had nothing new at NAMM? Really? I would think with all the gossip, threads on the digi duc and the drop of logic 9.1 64 bit they would drop something without a doubt. I'm actually really surprised! They must be doing really really bad. I wonder how long people hold on to there protools and have buyers remorse at this point before they go native. Probably not going to happen because too much has been done in it and the industry is stubborn about changing after the money has been invested even if it's old at this point. Main word there OLD.
Old 14th January 2010
  #607
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaman View Post
waiting for NAB
And it would be disaster if they slip all the way to AES.
Old 14th January 2010
  #608
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattg082 View Post
I wonder how long people hold on to there protools and have buyers remorse at this point before they go native. Probably not going to happen because too much has been done in it and the industry is stubborn about changing after the money has been invested even if it's old at this point. Main word there OLD.
You have to think outside of the bedroom/project studio. HD users have long since made their $ back from their PT HD rigs and continue to get music and post work partly because of the rig. Film and Music projects come in and go out on PT HD. That is a fact of this industry. Stability and finding it in every studio is a big requirement in the professional world. For what we do, native is not an option. Age of gear is not in question. An SSL 4000 owner doesn't get buyers remorse because the Duality hit the market.

Quote:
With exception to a few rich HD producers, no one is jumping to their defense
First, no one buys full retail for an PT HD system. Either trade-in or ebay. You can get an HD3 and lynx nowadays for under $10k. You are charging minimum $50/hr because u have HD. All u need to do is book (17) 12hr days and u have made ur investment back. If ur studio cant book 17 days then u shouldn't be in business.

Honeslty, Avid should update PT but it doesnt change anything for most of us who work with it everyday. All it adds is an upgrade bill. We still have Logic here for composing as well as Samplitude for CD burning/arranging.
Old 14th January 2010
  #609
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattg082 View Post
Protools had nothing new at NAMM? Really? I would think with all the gossip, threads on the digi duc and the drop of logic 9.1 64 bit they would drop something without a doubt. I'm actually really surprised! They must be doing really really bad. I wonder how long people hold on to there protools and have buyers remorse at this point before they go native. Probably not going to happen because too much has been done in it and the industry is stubborn about changing after the money has been invested even if it's old at this point. Main word there OLD.
NAMM isn't over yet...
Who knows what happens the next few days...(or not...)
Old 14th January 2010
  #610
Lives for gear
 
oceantracks's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by konkaos View Post
You have to think outside of the bedroom/project studio. HD users have long since made their $ back from their PT HD rigs and continue to get music and post work partly because of the rig. Film and Music projects come in and go out on PT HD. That is a fact of this industry. Stability and finding it in every studio is a big requirement in the professional world. For what we do, native is not an option. Age of gear is not in question. An SSL 4000 owner doesn't get buyers remorse because the Duality hit the market.
The problem for Digidesign, is that for every pro installation with HD there are 100 project/bedroom studios...many programming (at the very least) hit records. This is why you'll see something from Avid....I feel quite sure...to address the big gap between LE and HD. And that 100-1 ratio may be low.

It's just obvious that the longer they take to introduce it, the more of those 100 home studios are going somewhere else. Can't be good for the bottom line, and will probably end up being a case of too little too late. Too underpowered for HD users to replace HD, and not enough to entice the native set to change.

I'd not want to be the CEO of the audio portion of AVID these days.

TH
Old 14th January 2010
  #611
Lives for gear
 
M.S.P.'s Avatar
Its too bad Digi didnt offer something of substance today (apologies to the virtual instrument fans).

Oh well. In the end its their loss I guess.
Old 14th January 2010
  #612
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Spark View Post
Its too bad Digi didnt offer something of substance today (apologies to the virtual instrument fans).

Oh well. In the end its their loss I guess.
But with The Industry Standard myth Avid's loss is our whole industry's loss.

The hell with that, this industry shouldn't be tied to the dictats coming out of Avid corporate! tutt
Old 14th January 2010
  #613
Deleted User
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by oceantracks View Post
The problem for Digidesign, is that for every pro installation with HD there are 100 project/bedroom studios...many programming (at the very least) hit records. This is why you'll see something from Avid....I feel quite sure...to address the big gap between LE and HD. And that 100-1 ratio may be low.

It's just obvious that the longer they take to introduce it, the more of those 100 home studios are going somewhere else. Can't be good for the bottom line, and will probably end up being a case of too little too late. Too underpowered for HD users to replace HD, and not enough to entice the native set to change.

I'd not want to be the CEO of the audio portion of AVID these days.

TH
I don´t get this. Why do you worry about that kind of thing?
Old 14th January 2010
  #614
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by spicemix View Post
But with The Industry Standard myth Avid's loss is our whole industry's loss.

The hell with that, this industry shouldn't be tied to the dictats coming out of Avid corporate! tutt
Curious, what do u use? I see u in the PT threads killing PT and I see u in the Logic threads killing Logic. Then I see ur studio and low and behold...

spicemix recording studio san francisco
Old 14th January 2010
  #615
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by konkaos View Post
Curious, what do u use? I see u in the PT threads killing PT and I see u in the Logic threads killing Logic. Then I see ur studio and low and behold...

spicemix recording studio san francisco
I am using Logic by choice and PT when not. I use PT usually in shared facilities when, say, doing basic tracks. The photos are old, there's a Euphonix MC Control where the 003 was.

What do you use and may we see your studio?
Old 14th January 2010
  #616
Gear Maniac
 

The solution is simple but they're reluctance to do this will be they're down fall. They are simply charging way too much for HD for what little extra you get. It's really a pricing issue not a new technology thing, everyone wants HD at the right price say 3grand with the converters. Hardware costs nothing to produce and by holding on to yesterday prices they are allowing competition to gain market share. It may be too late for digidesign now they should have halfed HD's prices 2 years ago before everyone started leaving them. Competition owes their existence to Digi's high price schemes on HD and LE's artificial limitations in a sense Digi has created the competition by leaving a huge hole , just like the foolish record companies who were charging 17$ a cd when they should have charged $8 and $5dollars for a down load. Itunes would not exist today if not for the stubborn greed of record companies. 10 years ago HD or mix plus was a real bargain for 10k today at 10k it's an absolute rip off, they won't survive (or survive on a much smaller scale)if they don't understand this simple concept. Attempting yesterdays profits equals much smaller market share for Digi and smaller market share lowers they're chance of survival. Digi's success is based entirely on market dominance and market share, it's allowed them to stay one step ahead of the competition feeding they're innovation, sacrificing market dominance would be a huge mistake they simply won't be able to compete with Apple if they don't maintain market dominance.
Old 14th January 2010
  #617
Lives for gear
 
oceantracks's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by spicemix View Post
I am using Logic by choice and PT when not. I use PT usually in shared facilities when, say, doing basic tracks. The photos are old, there's a Euphonix MC Control where the 003 was.

What do you use and may we see your studio?
Very cool setup Peter!

TH
Old 14th January 2010
  #618
Lives for gear
 
ddageek's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by nativeaudio View Post
Native systems go lower than TDM based systems if you don't need plugin inserts in the monitoring chain.


Plugins as such don't add more latency in the native world than in the TDM world. It's the fact that the signal travels through the CPU/buffers/converters/drivers etc. that adds latency, not the plugins themselves, they ususally do their job

The benefit of using TDM isn't "more DSP", it's a different architecture (which also have som unwanted side effects), and the benefit (in terms of lower latency) is marginal.

What you wrote used to bevery relevant/important before computers had enough processing power to handle many tracks/many plugins/low buffer settings.

Each step of DSP needs some CPU cycles, but in the native world, you'll either get a overload message or "latency-free" processing of the signal (unless special, complex algorithms are used). The processing adds no latency because it happens within the time span that we already know exists (eg. 0.72 ms when using a 32 sample buffer @ 44.1).

If you want as low latency as possible, you'll have to use a native system and avoid plugins. You can of course also process the signal in the interface, but in that case the systems isn't really 'native' anymore.

All this is of course more or less mumbojumbo, because the latency differences we talk about are in the same range as the difference that exists if you listen to some high notes on a piano - compared with the latency you'll get from playing the notes in the piano's mid-range. The higher notes are circa 1 millisecond "further away" than the mid range notes if you sit at the center of the keyboard.
I live in the real world where anyone offering real low latency monitoring is using dedicated DSP! And its the clients who want the plugins because they can get that with someone whi is running HD!
I Gave UP MIX for LE and LE for Logic. Now I'm shopping for HD!
Old 14th January 2010
  #619
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Spark View Post
Its too bad Digi didnt offer something of substance today
Yeah, I was hoping for an alternative to Logic. But I guess I shouldn't complain after the 64b update.
Old 15th January 2010
  #620
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
But with The Industry Standard myth Avid's loss is our whole industry's loss.
Quote:
Originally Posted by spicemix View Post
I am using Logic by choice and PT when not. I use PT usually in shared facilities when, say, doing basic tracks.
clearly Industry Standard is not a "myth" then. If it was truly a Myth, you would never be 'forced' to use PT, nor find it in all the facilities that do the basic tracks. Nobody would ask you for it if it wasn't expected. Even a self-proclaimed Hater such as yourself is unable to avoid using it.

All that is required for something to be Industry Standard is that people believe it to be Industry Standard. Which obviously they do.

You may feel its I.S. status is undeserved, that does not make its status a myth. Try telling your PT clients they'll be getting Logic files today.

You may wish it was a myth, but that's just you whistling in the dark.
Old 15th January 2010
  #621
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq View Post
clearly Industry Standard is not a "myth" then. If it was a Myth, you would never be 'forced' to use PT, nor find it in all the facilities that do the basic tracks. Nobody would ask you for it if it wasn't expected. Even a self-proclaimed Hater such as yourself is unable to avoid using it.

All that is required for something to be Industry Standard is that people believe it to be Industry Standard. Which obviously they do.

You may feel its I.S. status is undeserved, that does not make its status a myth. If it's such a myth, try telling your PT clients they'll be getting Logic files today.

You may wish it was a myth, but that's just you whistling in the dark.
It is only an industry standard amongst shared facilities. The session file format is also standard, for the moment, amongst people who frequent them. But for most DAW usage it isn't standard...the most installed DAW is Garageband, and the most used DAW is probably pirated copies of Cubase on Windows. It's hard to get solid statistics on usage patterns.

Anyway Avid looks like it's having serious problems getting code out the door, and we should collectively reconsider putting all eggs in that basket.
Old 15th January 2010
  #622
Lives for gear
 
PMoshay's Avatar
 

I'm not really sure why people need Digi to release something today with 100 other companies..........I just hope that when they do, it's a solid offering.

So far the coolest new thing ive seen is the TC tuner.

I'm kinda over all the plug in mania........ how many eq's do you really need? especially when you can use Q-Clone with all those killer captures and capturing features.

They are gonna run out of old gear to emulate soon, then what???.... sell videos on how to mix!..... (Go Kenny & Tony!).
As i always say..... you can make a great record with any of the DAWS out there...... if you can make a great record
Old 15th January 2010
  #623
PDC
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by spicemix View Post
And it would be disaster if they slip all the way to AES.
You must not have a connection with someone on the retail side of MI. Sales are WAY down industry wide. There is very little being rolled out at NAMM this year. So don't think that Avid is dead because NAMM has no new toys. Digi doesn't even need NAMM really. All they have to do is use their site, their reps and call their top three retailers. Mucho cheaper.
Old 15th January 2010
  #624
PDC
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by spicemix View Post
It is only an industry standard amongst shared facilities. The session file format is also standard, for the moment, amongst people who frequent them. But for most DAW usage it isn't standard...the most installed DAW is Garageband, and the most used DAW is probably pirated copies of Cubase on Windows. It's hard to get solid statistics on usage patterns.

Anyway Avid looks like it's having serious problems getting code out the door, and we should collectively reconsider putting all eggs in that basket.
Your logic is flawed. Using that logic you must assume that Apple thinks everyone that buys a Mac is a musician and records with Garageband. This is about the most used and universally acceptable, not the most installed.

The credits of releases tell it all.
Old 15th January 2010
  #625
Lives for gear
LOL I think there are probably more kids with fruity loops than there is garage band. Every college dorm i've walked into has it. Every poor and upcoming rapper gives me fruity loops tracks and i just give them a funny look. Spicewhatever is just trolling he does on every site! Even if you were nice he would still act an ass and start an argument. the dude is just not happy or something.
Old 15th January 2010
  #626
Gear Addict
 
sscannon's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by author View Post
Yeah, I was hoping for an alternative to Logic. But I guess I shouldn't complain after the 64b update.
I've been enjoying 64 bit sound for a long time. With Sonar in High Definition! Welcome aboard. Ditched my macs a couple years ago, and lovin' it!! Haven't had to upgrade my OS in 5 years. And as far "try sending your pro tools buddies a Sonar session", it's way easy. They both use wave files. I keep the PTLE 64 track version installed for opening sessions, mac or pc, no prob. PTHD who?
Old 15th January 2010
  #627
LMS
Lives for gear
 
LMS's Avatar
 

i'm hearing a birdy say something about a new expansion system that will replace pthd and be a native based system since the macs have become so fast, the hd card based "host power" isn't necesary and the tdm or hd plugs are not either.

anyone else heard the birdy???

also price point might be 2500-5000.

1/3 or a brand new hd3.
Old 15th January 2010
  #628
PDC
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by LMS View Post
i'm hearing a birdy say something about a new expansion system that will replace pthd and be a native based system since the macs have become so fast, the hd card based "host power" isn't necesary and the tdm or hd plugs are not either.

anyone else heard the birdy???

also price point might be 2500-5000.

1/3 or a brand new hd3.
And the WUP for this will be only $5000.
Old 15th January 2010
  #629
Gear Maniac
 
Nirvana5253's Avatar
 

I think some have mentioned it a bit - the music industry is undoubtedly changing- studios closing left and right, freelance work becoming more prevalent, everyone and their grandma being a producer or engineer and having a "studio" in their house/apartment/dorm/garage/bathroom. Yes HD makes a difference in quality and workflow for those who can afford it. (Emphasis on workflow) Does it make the difference between good and bad mixes? IMO no. The reality is that Logic, PT, Reaper, Cubase etc. are tools not all in one solutions just like a car (well most cars) dont drive themselves. There is some skill involved in getting to where you need to go. There seems to be too much hang up on the DAW that someone uses instead of their knowledge and effectiveness at using the tools of the trade (DAWs) with any amount of skill. PTHD wont save you if you cant mix your way out of a paper bag.

That said, in gear-slutty fashion, Avid should pay attention to their customers and come out with something to compete w/ everyone else (Logic especially) at a pro-sumer price point to stay in the game. Who knows, maybe its a strategy of theirs to increase the wow factor. Being a logic user but also having used PTHD systems they both have their benefits. Like I said, maybe less about why this DAW is better than that one and more focus on the music/tricks/skills/etc?

Just my .02
Old 15th January 2010
  #630
Lives for gear
Not only did Digidesign not have anything new at NAMM today:

- The Digidesign name was gone from the sign. "AVID Pro Tools" replaced it.

- No HD anything was on display. The only working rigs were a few Eleven racks. There was a glass case with the M-Audio, MBOX and 003 interfaces in it, and the CD boxes for LE and a few of their plugins.

- The booth was 1/4 the size of last year, and was filled with benches and tables instead of equipment. The salesman I talked to said that AVID was getting more personal with their customers, hence the benches.

- There were no Venue consoles or Icons either. At least there was a picture of a Venue!

In a way I don't blame them, because most of their sales are probably from Sweetwater and other low margin sellers and not from the NAMM crowd. I'm a big HD fan and it has served me well for 5 years. I'm rooting for them to make the right next move, although today's was a bit surprising.

Pic is of the Pro Tools display (an 003 rack was on the bottom shelf just off the pic)

Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Similar Threads
Thread
Thread Starter / Forum
Replies
xirvi / Gearslutz Secondhand Gear Classifieds
0
cajonezzz / So much gear, so little time
9

Forum Jump
Forum Jump