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Digidesign Pro Tools Next Move Audio Interfaces
Old 14th November 2009
  #31
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hotstuff View Post
For us LE users what we really need and want is ADC.

This alone should be the biggest priority for Digidesign on the next release, I think that this alone will determine whether the loyal users will stay or move on.
Hotstuff
Already gone. Logic's learning curve is not too bad. The lack of ADC, especially when using UAD plugs, drove me over the edge.
Old 15th November 2009
  #32
Gear Guru
 
Kenny Gioia's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by hepcat View Post
I don't know, it seems like Apple just knows how to beat everybody in quality and affordability.
Digidesign and Apple are playing a different game.

Apple doesn't need to make money from Logic. They could throw it in free if they wanted (like Gates did with Internet Explorer).

They sell a boat load more Macs than Digi sells Pro Tools systems. It's not a fair fight.
Old 15th November 2009
  #33
Gear Guru
 
Kenny Gioia's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaman View Post
Lexicon to me showed the route highend DAW companies will walk in the next years.
Release native versions of their legacy hardware at relative high
but non the less affordable price tags.

Think about ethernet based core systems which handle like 48 I/Os standard
and a low latency mixer including the software at around 4k.
Plugin processing and all the rest is being done native on mac pros.

Main business will focus on core systems, additional interfaces,
high end plugins and controllers like ICON.

The time for pci dsp card based systems is clearly over
and I think digidesign is aware of this.

They will also:

* Increase the DAE bandwith up to 48 or even 64 bits.
* Increase the mixer resolution
* Release some absolutely stunning included dynamics + EQ + FX plugins
* Release some stunning new AD/DAs á la prism / lavry etc.

Let´s see at NAMM how close my guess is....
They definitely seem to be going more in the creative direction than features.

If you find a few devices you love (Xpand, Boom, Vacuum) then you're stuck with Pro Tools.
Old 15th November 2009
  #34
Gear Maniac
 

What's next?

Tomorrow, I make my move from my G5 to an 8 Core MacPro. I'm keeping the PCI cards and got a Magma Expansion chassis.

Digi seems to be focusing on the software end, as well they should. But, how about a portable HD rig that interfaces with your MacBook? Is that on anybody else's wish list?
Old 15th November 2009
  #35
Lives for gear
 
DontLetMeDrown's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq View Post
wow

what a thought tutt

this concept has hit me like a ton of bricks
several of those bricks are: thinking about how I never thought about it.

so, plenty of hot new PCs with the old PCI slots?
The i7 motherboard I use has 4 x pcie slots and 2 x pci.

Pretty common.
Old 15th November 2009
  #36
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zacheus83's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia View Post
Digidesign and Apple are playing a different game.

Apple doesn't need to make money from Logic. They could throw it in free if they wanted (like Gates did with Internet Explorer).

They sell a boat load more Macs than Digi sells Pro Tools systems. It's not a fair fight.
Which is why Logic is cheaper than a good Pro Tools system
Old 15th November 2009
  #37
Deleted User
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia View Post
Digidesign and Apple are playing a different game.

Apple doesn't need to make money from Logic. They could throw it in free if they wanted (like Gates did with Internet Explorer).

They sell a boat load more Macs than Digi sells Pro Tools systems. It's not a fair fight.
May not be a fair fight which could FORCE DIGI to get creative for once. You can only sit back and smoke your cigar for so long before your competition drives by
Old 15th November 2009
  #38
Gear Maniac
 
kilroyrock's Avatar
Pc for HD

Quote:
Originally Posted by DontLetMeDrown View Post
The i7 motherboard I use has 4 x pcie slots and 2 x pci.

Pretty common.
yep. I run HD2 on a 300 dollar dual processor pc with 4 gigs ram, still waiting to see a crash.

That's including the rack case in my mobile rig for 60 bucks.
Old 15th November 2009
  #39
Lives for gear
 
oceantracks's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by surflounge View Post
i just pulled a $30,000 check out of my mailbox from Toyota for the music on a 15 second commercial I recorded using Amadeus and Audacity.

Finished in all 20 minutes, and I'm doing another today.

Never touched ProTools or Logic. Too complicated and slow.
If you are making 30 grand to do a fifteen second spot....Toyota, Coke, you name it...you are a rare bird indeed, unless you are AFTRA and are singing on it. People doing network TV shows aren't making that

TH
Old 15th November 2009
  #40
Lives for gear
 
oceantracks's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by hipass View Post
Protools Version 9...

IS going to blow you away ....
And you know this because...

TH
Old 15th November 2009
  #41
mds
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by oceantracks View Post
If you are making 30 grand to do a fifteen second spot....Toyota, Coke, you name it...you are a rare bird indeed, unless you are AFTRA and are singing on it. People doing network TV shows aren't making that

TH
Commercials typically pay better than TV shows...TV shows run longer though. :-)
Old 15th November 2009
  #42
Lives for gear
 
oceantracks's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mds View Post
Commercials typically pay better than TV shows...TV shows run longer though. :-)

National spots done by even big houses in this economy are not getting 30,000 music budgets for 15"spots.

Better hold onto that client

TH
Old 15th November 2009
  #43
Gear Maniac
 
Hotstuff's Avatar
 

Hey, zacheus83

ADC = Automatic Delay Compensation
or
PDC = Plugin Delay Compensation,

The lack of this is going to be the deal breaker!

Hotstuff
Old 15th November 2009
  #44
Lives for gear
Time moves on and in reality a lot of people use more than one daw, so it is not either or now.

I prefer pro tools because I learnt it first but the price and feature set of logic was too good to pass up.

I still would prefer to use pro tools more but for much less than the cost of a decent HD system I was able to get a metric halo ULN 8 which just plugs in on firewire works beautifully with logic.
Could Avid just license interface cards plus uncrippled software?- I would pay a decent premium to get this.
Old 15th November 2009
  #45
Lives for gear
 
Jeff16years's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DP40oz View Post
Affordability? Im not saying Apple doesnt make great products but for the price of a new Mac Pro you can get a brand new Dell with the same exact specs plus a used HD1 system. Apple may be quality but affordability.... not really. Their computers, their monitors etc... are way overpriced compared to the competition. Once the Apple "cool" factor wears off I think things will come back down to earth. Sorry sorta off topic just my 2 cents.
sorry for an off topic reply to an off topic reply.....


once the cool factor wears off, you have OSX on your computer, not Windows. That alone is worth any extra money you spent on a mac.
Old 15th November 2009
  #46
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jamwerks's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaman View Post
Release some stunning new AD/DAs á la prism / lavry etc.
There's lots more competition now (Lynx, Apogee, SSL, Prism) in the conversion market than 7 years ago when the Digi 192 was an excellent price/quality option. If they go partly native as I think they will, they might make PT funcion ONLY with Digi converters.

I forsee a new system aimed at the professional home studio with a small footprint full featured controler (alla Euphonix Artist). The Comande 8 is great for Post but a joke for music production & the C/24 is more recording.
Old 15th November 2009
  #47
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Jeff16years's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hotstuff View Post
For us LE users what we really need and want is ADC.
Hotstuff

i hate to break it to you, but Digidesign is not concerned about giving us what we need.
-Jeff
Old 15th November 2009
  #48
Lives for gear
[QUOTE=jamwerks;4785398]There's lots more competition now (Lynx, Apogee, SSL, Prism) in the conversion market than 7 years ago when the Digi 192 was an excellent price/quality option. If they go partly native as I think they will, they might make PT funcion ONLY with Digi converters.


I think that would be disastrous - the converters are the one thing I wouldn't want - now if they went into partnership with somebody like metric halo or prism that might be different.
Old 15th November 2009
  #49
Lives for gear
 
Ol' Betsey's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by oceantracks View Post
National spots done by even big houses in this economy are not getting 30,000 music budgets for 15"spots.

Better hold onto that client

TH
Sorry for going OT:

That's just not true. Some friends of mine just got £20,000 from one of the top UK banks and that's for the UK/Scotland only. They get more if it's used anywhere else.

Heck I (!) just got $8,000 for having 10 seconds of my music played WAY in the background of a US TV show.

There's money out there alright.

R.
Old 15th November 2009
  #50
Lives for gear
 
zacheus83's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hotstuff View Post
Hey, zacheus83

ADC = Automatic Delay Compensation
or
PDC = Plugin Delay Compensation,

The lack of this is going to be the deal breaker!

Hotstuff
Sorry guys. I'm an idiot. I thought you were reffering to Analog to digital conversion!

Yes ADC would be nice in LE. Carry on.
Old 15th November 2009
  #51
Lives for gear
 
DONNX's Avatar
 

I just hope PT 9 isn't offered to us until they work all the bugs and crashes.


Don' t want another PT 8 nightmare.
Old 15th November 2009
  #52
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by DP40oz View Post
Affordability? Im not saying Apple doesnt make great products but for the price of a new Mac Pro you can get a brand new Dell with the same exact specs plus a used HD1 system. Apple may be quality but affordability.... not really. Their computers, their monitors etc... are way overpriced compared to the competition. Once the Apple "cool" factor wears off I think things will come back down to earth. Sorry sorta off topic just my 2 cents.
Just a point of order on this sub topic: I bought my last G5 Pro for 1200gbp in 2005, and sold it last year for 600gbp to upgrade to a new intel based mac pro. You wouldnt have got ANY money for a windows based PC.....not as expensive as they seem.
Old 15th November 2009
  #53
Lives for gear
 
carlheinz's Avatar
 

I have the old PTHD 192 on the old PPC G5 and will probably not try to upgrade.It has served me well and I still think it sounds very good and works for what I need it to do.I'll keep using it till it goes out and sell off the pieces for pennies on the dollar and go totally native.In the long run,I see no future in continuing development of TDM type hardware with cards for AVID as a revenue stream.The market is native and portable and expandable and open capatible.
Old 15th November 2009
  #54
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jamwerks's Avatar
 

I imagine that PT 9 will be "crippled" to work only under their new hardware (AD DA and/or DSP cards). They can't afford for people to keep working with HD accel and not buy into their new plateform. Gigastudio went under 2 years after lanching a new version that only few adopted.
Old 15th November 2009
  #55
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jamwerks View Post
I imagine that PT 9 will be "crippled" to work only under their new hardware (AD DA and/or DSP cards). They can't afford for people to keep working with HD accel and not buy into their new plateform. Gigastudio went under 2 years after lanching a new version that only few adopted.
I don't think so...first you have Max Gutnik posting here that HD is not going to be dropped next year. And secondly HD is just a niche market, but one that lets them sell the cheaper products to the broad (and education) market as "the industry standard." If they piss off the HD sites and don't preserve their investment they risk losing that.

So I think the PT9 system will make use of the HD cards' DSP acceleration and the legacy i/o and simply move the engine itself out to native as I wrote. It preserves the HD sites' investment while getting the millstone of running an engine on those old cards off Avid's neck.

The main question is how little crippling will they do for the non-HD product to stave off the main market moving to Logic/Reaper/Cubendo etc. Will they let their customers use UAD cards comfortably instead of HD cards. Will they enable full portability of pro-level sessions to laptops. If they develop a full-featured native engine for the HD sites' benefit, they will have to do intentional cripples of it to reserve any exclusivity for the HD line, as they have done the last ten years.

I don't think they have that luxury anymore, I think everyone will up and leave them in that case (I and many others already have ). No one wants to tie their sessions to tower computers anymore. If session portability is their strongest argument, they have to embrace session mobility.
Old 16th November 2009
  #56
Gear Guru
 
Kenny Gioia's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jamwerks View Post
There's lots more competition now (Lynx, Apogee, SSL, Prism) in the conversion market than 7 years ago when the Digi 192 was an excellent price/quality option. If they go partly native as I think they will, they might make PT funcion ONLY with Digi converters.
Isn't that what they tried to do. Those other companies simply reverse engineered to make it work.

Are any other convertors supported by Digi?
Old 16th November 2009
  #57
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia View Post
Isn't that what they tried to do. Those other companies simply reverse engineered to make it work.

Are any other convertors supported by Digi?
Avid just gave an M-Powered license to Mackie. That is the first time they have let a 3rd party not only do the analog-digital conversion, but the computer-digital interfacing, which is much more sensitive to them I'd think.

(Speculation on potential Avid/LOUD merger skipped)

(Mytek I think should also be on the list)
Old 16th November 2009
  #58
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Subversounds's Avatar
I don't know about the us market. I live in Rio, and most studios here are medium and small sized, even those working with great artists. As far as producers and studio owners here say and do, the only reason most of them have Protools is to that annoying client that thinks Protools = quality. No matter if its a lame M-audio converter, if they see a Protools logo they think it is good.

Don't know the moves Digi will do, but i hate DAWs bounded to hardware. I love Logic and Cubase, and mix on them, doing fine so far, changed lots of time my audio cards with no problems.
But, as i must have Protools just to show my not-too-informed clients, because that is the market here, i'm buying a BLA digi 002 or 003 to justify the PT and still gets quality for the bucks.

And about PT8, sure elastic audio is great and other features too... But the lack of ADC on a $1.5k system and the time i have to spend to run elastic audio then exporting waves too Logic or Cubase to mix, i rather use the old fashion Cut, Move sample, Crossfade, next... And if i cant do that way (which is rare), i prefer using drumtracker to fix tempos, or even melodyne (not that good thou).

I'm one of those who hate PT... maybe a Love and Hate relationship.

Cheers from Rio.
Old 16th November 2009
  #59
Here for the gear
 
skydogsound's Avatar
 

black lion versus HD

Quote:
Originally Posted by zacheus83 View Post
For LE users, I wouldn't trust a better Digidesign ADC. They're never going to make it as good as TDM on purpose. I chose Black Lion signature ($1200). Also look at Apogee, etc... and just use the digital in. Some users claim the BLA gives better results than HD. I can't say since the last I used TDM was in 2004.
I've used a black lion digi002 for the last two years and switched over to a HD pcie system for the main reason that the "recording industry" types want to see a digi 192 in the rack as opposed to a digi002 in the rack. We also got tired of people bringing in their HD sessions with 48+ tracks and tdm plugs everywhere and not being able to do anything to them so we bit the bullet.

We have recently been using Logic more and more because it sounded SO MUCH better than pro tools LE and the difference of the sound of Logic going through the HD compared to the modded digi002 was very slight where as the sound of pro tools HD compared to LE was night and day. I believe that Pro Tools doesn't want people to create quality with their LE systems and forces people to switch to HD.

The ease of use of Logic as far as a novice musician coming into recording for the first time (actually people are starting with Garage Band these days too) is far ahead of Pro Tools in my honest opinion is due to apple loops. You can start with a simple guitar idea played to a click track and then find drum loops that fit... drop in fills and variations of the groove and in a few minutes you have something. Pro Tools 8 has virtual instruments and a so-so drum machine but nothing like Logic.

That said, I have put my friend the aforementioned BLA HD modded digi002 up for sale. It's in the classifieds here online. It works GREAT with Logic we even got a Grammy award last year on a CD that was recorded through it. I'd like to keep it to setup a home recording studio but sometimes it's best to come home and not work.
Old 16th November 2009
  #60
PDC
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tamasdragon View Post
To answer the thread. I think digi(err.avid) is coming with something serious. On both sides of the road, so both hardware wise, and software wise. At least I hope so.heh
I doubt it. I work with a former digi employee/developer and he says that they are laying people off left anf right. India is taking over. China is manufacturing. His thoughts included, "Yeah, India programmers really have a grasp on audio and the recording process".
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