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Digidesign Pro Tools Next Move Audio Interfaces
Old 9th December 2009
  #421
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noiseflaw's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by spicemix View Post
Someone under NDA with Avid just released new videos on getting around LE's lack of Delay Compensation. That was all I needed to see to give up hope on Pro Tools.
Why would you ditch Pro Tools because of this video - I'm presuming it is the Air User's blog one.

Surely it is a good thing for LE users?...

Still a right PIA for LE guy's though, jeez all that hassle just to insert plugs.

Interesting to see what Avid will do.
Old 9th December 2009
  #422
Gear Maniac
 
G Davis's Avatar
Avid Technology cutting 120 workers - Boston Business Journal:

Something is definitely going on at AVID. Their last quarter financial statements show a lot in R&D but why the layoffs??
Old 9th December 2009
  #423
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by glee View Post
Avid Technology cutting 120 workers - Boston Business Journal:

Something is definitely going on at AVID. Their last quarter financial statements show a lot in R&D but why the layoffs??
most of those laid off are elves

fewer sacks of gold = less need for elves to carry them
Old 9th December 2009
  #424
Gear Nut
 

Needed features list:

ADC for LE, but some say there are inherent problems with this because of software architecture wasn't designed for this to begin with! Anyone know this? If not, why are they so slow doing it?

A TDM translator for use in native? Oops that would probably be too slow and introduce to much latency? So then they invest millions in a new DSP architecture, that Intel outstrips in about 18 months! No Good!


All new native TDM plugs with a new software architecture would be stripping compatibility with with old plugs, not gonna work to well!

Open up both versions of Protools to any interface needed. Oops there goes the bottom line profits, as Avid is a hardware company as well as software.

Looks to me that they have simply been caught behind Intel's technology curve with the chips so fast now, as well other DAW competition. I don't really see any easy solution to this! Anyone?
Old 9th December 2009
  #425
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noiseflaw View Post
Why would you ditch Pro Tools because of this video - I'm presuming it is the Air User's blog one.
Durrr...because the guy is under NDA and presumably knows whether he's wasting his time making such a video (of which there are already many) or not. tutt

I had already ditched Pro Tools. I don't need to deal with that nonsense. This signal that you will still need to learn how to work around the crippleware just made me give up hope entirely.
Old 9th December 2009
  #426
Here for the gear
 

Pro tools is obsolete

Pro tools has become obsolete
Since Sonar 8 and now 8.5, pro tools, logic, cubase, ableton live, and everyother program has become obsolete. Let's first compare the pro tools HD3 system with the cakewalk v-700 studio system with a pcaudio labs is7 computer. Each setup is extremely powerful but with the v-studio setup you get twice the pluggins and virtual instrumets in a superior 64-bit sound quality for about a tenth of the price of the protools hd3 system. And your tracks aren't limited, in fact how ever powerful your computer is your studio will be. With a 1500 dollar pc audio labs computer with the new is7 quad core processor you can run 150 tracks simaltaneosly. And you can get a computer even more powerful than that. All of these advancments in sonar the past couple of years were only made possible because the billion dollar giant Roland bought cakewalk and has also teamed up with multiple companys to make sonar the best. The tide has changed, unless pro tools upgrades to 64-bit it will remain obsolete. Don't waste your money or time on all the hype with pro-tools and get the quality you deserve!With all the processor advancments and memory power increaing in today's computer market there is no need for 10,000 dollar pci cards. In my
opinion they are a complete waste of money. The best of luck with your studios! Check out these links- http://www.v-studio.info/index.php and pcaudiolabs.com
Old 9th December 2009
  #427
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relaxo's Avatar
Best of luck to you too. How many clients a month do you get calling to see if they can bring their Sonor sessions in? Let me guess...zero.

Kind of makes your argument irrelevant in the studio circuit, doesn't it? Your points may hold up well in isolation, however personally I would never buy it because no way anyone could get me to work in Windows.
Old 9th December 2009
  #428
Gear Nut
 

I use Cakewalk as well. But I don't think the v-700 is gonna give an expensive Icon system a run for its money. I suppose the best solution for Protools is a dedicated processor rack with about the power of an HD3 (at a fair price) for each box, as has been suggested by other forum members. Something like this would really fill the void of having to purchase expensive 6,7,8 year old technology (Whatever) at the current HD prices.
Old 9th December 2009
  #429
Here for the gear
 

I'm just talking about the best sound quality and price. I know protools can be easily shared with anyone, but sonar has a multi format setting that would allow you to work with sonar recordings on your protools, or any system. Remember sonar is native and is compatible with all plugins but pro tools. Don't underestimate Cakewalk
Old 9th December 2009
  #430
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noiseflaw's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by spicemix View Post
Durrr...because the guy is under NDA and presumably knows whether he's wasting his time making such a video (of which there are already many) or not. tutt

I had already ditched Pro Tools. I don't need to deal with that nonsense. This signal that you will still need to learn how to work around the crippleware just made me give up hope entirely.
Duh or no duh!

Perhaps Pro Tools LE will still be Crippleware - but maybe the new alternative Native combi (whatever), will be a good compromise?...

Old 9th December 2009
  #431
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by noiseflaw View Post
Duh or no duh!

Perhaps Pro Tools LE will still be Crippleware - but maybe the new alternative Native combi (whatever), will be a good compromise?...

It's an awful sign. They are just stringing people along.
Old 9th December 2009
  #432
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bart Waldon View Post
I'm just talking about the best sound quality and price. I know protools can be easily shared with anyone, but sonar has a multi format setting that would allow you to work with sonar recordings on your protools, or any system. Remember sonar is native and is compatible with all plugins but pro tools. Don't underestimate Cakewalk
Again I love and use Sonar as well, but if your referring to OMF file format. I don't think its works as weel in practice as in theory. I called a local studio about a month ago, asking if they could import OMF Sonar files into their Protools setup, and they said just bring in the waves files. OMF doens't always work that well apparently!

Maybe Avid could start stocking up on Shark DSP chips and give us a product like UAD for TDM, like a Quad, where its not tied to any particular hardware except the card itself?
Old 10th December 2009
  #433
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C Heat's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by spicemix View Post
It's an awful sign. They are just stringing people along.
I thought it was odd that Russ posted that video. I mean, there are many videos dating back 2 - 3 years ago explaining ADC...
Old 10th December 2009
  #434
Gear Addict
 
topperf's Avatar
 

I asked Russ if he had a comment on this, and this is his reply:

'these people need to grow up and obviously have too much time on their hands. I suppose they also think there's an FBI tap on their phone FFS!'

Have a nice day.
Old 10th December 2009
  #435
Here for the gear
 

Get A Life!

Hi Guys
This is Russ from the AIR Users Blog. This thread was sent to me by a user, all I can say is I'm amazed at how some of you can make such huge leaps from my video to this conspiracy theory. Too much time on your hands? Medication issues? Still think the Russians are going to invade?

Which ever it is, it's the biggest pile of BS I've read and I shouldn't really need to waste my time dealing with this when I've got 30,000 users around the world who need and appreciate the support of the blog.

FWIW the reason the video was made was as a response to user requests I put out for ideas - nothing more, nothing less.

I'm making one on bass techniques soon and just in case any of you want to make another massive leap of insignificant connection, no it's not because AVID are buying Fender.

Sorry for the harsh tone, but this stuff is such a waste of time and belongs in the school yard, not in threads for sound-thinking musicians.
Old 10th December 2009
  #436
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oceantracks's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
Radar failed?! Really?!

I don't disagree with the rest, although that's kind of what a mac is - a limited hardware bespoke os pc.
Yes Radar failed if you consider the total number of users compared to Pro Tools.

TH
Old 10th December 2009
  #437
Lives for gear
 
oceantracks's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by spicemix View Post
Durrr...because the guy is under NDA and presumably knows whether he's wasting his time making such a video (of which there are already many) or not. tutt

I had already ditched Pro Tools. I don't need to deal with that nonsense. This signal that you will still need to learn how to work around the crippleware just made me give up hope entirely.
Yeah .....OR...it could be that it will take awhile to completely rewrite PT so it can do the things people or clamoring for ....this has been publicly stated a dozen times by DigiDesign.

TH
Old 10th December 2009
  #438
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relaxo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by spicemix View Post
Durrr...because the guy is under NDA and presumably knows whether he's wasting his time making such a video (of which there are already many)
And spicemix, don't worry about Russ's ADC video. We don't know how much he knows...we do know that he hasn't taken Dave LeBolt's seat at Avid...in other words, he may or may not be privy to any Avid plans at all. I've been under NDA with a couple of different companies and I knew as much about their future plans as any one off the street. Many of the non-insider NDAs can only see as far as their current beta application they're testing.
Old 10th December 2009
  #439
Gear Nut
 
Max3000's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by airusersblog View Post
Hi Guys
This is Russ from the AIR Users Blog. This thread was sent to me by a user, all I can say is I'm amazed at how some of you can make such huge leaps from my video to this conspiracy theory. Too much time on your hands? Medication issues? Still think the Russians are going to invade?

Which ever it is, it's the biggest pile of BS I've read and I shouldn't really need to waste my time dealing with this when I've got 30,000 users around the world who need and appreciate the support of the blog.

FWIW the reason the video was made was as a response to user requests I put out for ideas - nothing more, nothing less.

I'm making one on bass techniques soon and just in case any of you want to make another massive leap of insignificant connection, no it's not because AVID are buying Fender.

Sorry for the harsh tone, but this stuff is such a waste of time and belongs in the school yard, not in threads for sound-thinking musicians.
I thought it was a very helpful video (the others too).

I heard alot of gripes about ADC but I never heard the simple solution ie check the mix window for how many samples you're out by and then punch it into the Time Adjuster Plugin. In a nutshell.

Sure, LE would be better if you did not need to do that but it's a 30sec job!

Cheers Russ.
Old 10th December 2009
  #440
Motown legend
 
Bob Olhsson's Avatar
 

Most of the whining comes from folks who know little or nothing about Pro Tools and are seeking bragging rights about something else.

The deep dark secret is that automagic delay compensation depends entirely on developers having their plug-ins report the proper number of samples. A fair number don't which means they need to be manually compensated by testing for a null. Doing that is a piece of cake with the time adjuster plug. It can be challenging, to say the least, in a lot of the competition that doesn't support easy manual delay compensation.
Old 10th December 2009
  #441
Lives for gear
 
DontLetMeDrown's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bart Waldon View Post
Pro tools has become obsolete
Since Sonar 8 and now 8.5, pro tools, logic, cubase, ableton live, and everyother program has become obsolete. Let's first compare the pro tools HD3 system with the cakewalk v-700 studio system with a pcaudio labs is7 computer. Each setup is extremely powerful but with the v-studio setup you get twice the pluggins and virtual instrumets in a superior 64-bit sound quality for about a tenth of the price of the protools hd3 system. And your tracks aren't limited, in fact how ever powerful your computer is your studio will be. With a 1500 dollar pc audio labs computer with the new is7 quad core processor you can run 150 tracks simaltaneosly. And you can get a computer even more powerful than that. All of these advancments in sonar the past couple of years were only made possible because the billion dollar giant Roland bought cakewalk and has also teamed up with multiple companys to make sonar the best. The tide has changed, unless pro tools upgrades to 64-bit it will remain obsolete. Don't waste your money or time on all the hype with pro-tools and get the quality you deserve!With all the processor advancments and memory power increaing in today's computer market there is no need for 10,000 dollar pci cards. In my
opinion they are a complete waste of money. The best of luck with your studios! Check out these links- http://www.v-studio.info/index.php and pcaudiolabs.com
Whoa Bart, I think you've had WAAAY too much Kool-Aid. I use Sonar too. It's nice and all, but V700 is a toy.
Old 14th December 2009
  #442
Lives for gear
 
blackcatdigi's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson View Post
Most of the whining comes from folks who know little or nothing about Pro Tools and are seeking bragging rights about something else.
The deep dark secret is that automagic delay compensation depends entirely on developers having their plug-ins report the proper number of samples.
Who cares?

It is a really small issue to navigate. Only if you are processing drums, for the most part.

If you can't figure your way around delay compensation with PTLE, perhaps you should think about another line of work? Or another platform?


Old 14th December 2009
  #443
Registered User
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by noiseflaw View Post
Duh or no duh!

Perhaps Pro Tools LE will still be Crippleware - but maybe the new alternative Native combi (whatever), will be a good compromise?...


that's because it's the entry level software does you need to buy HD to get the flagship features.
Old 14th December 2009
  #444
Registered User
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackcatdigi View Post

If you can't figure your way around delay compensation with PTLE, perhaps you should think about another line of work? Or another platform?



Perhaps the best line of the year!
I wonder how they figure out how to do something more complex?
Old 14th December 2009
  #445
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doorknocker's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max3000 View Post
I thought it was a very helpful video (the others too).

I heard alot of gripes about ADC but I never heard the simple solution ie check the mix window for how many samples you're out by and then punch it into the Time Adjuster Plugin. In a nutshell.

Sure, LE would be better if you did not need to do that but it's a 30sec job!
I just watched the video which explains how you can adjust Liquid Mix tracks vs. tracks that don't have any sample delay. Basically having two groups of tracks with the Liquid Mix ones all having THE SAME amount of sample delay vs. the zero delay ones.

To be honest, this wasn't helpful at all because 99% of PT users will deal with tracks that have varying amounts of sample delay, obviously this gets more complicated once you introduce plug-ins on buses, etc.

I wonder how many folks in this thread here have looked closer into this before making their 'educated' statements?

The only solution that really works for me (besides Mellowmuse which I haven't been able to set up properly or didn't try long enough) is using the same plug-ins on ALL the tracks and just Bypassing the ones I don't need. This works better now that PT8 has 10 inserts on every channel but it still might put too much strain on the CPU and generally it will crowd up the sessions.

Another solution that I haven't tried but might work much better is shifting BACK the tracks that are affected from sample delay caused by plug-ins. Meaning that you would check the delay amount of a track and then shift back the waveform with the 'Spot' function. Let's assume you have only two tracks that are affected by samle delay. Instead of delaying all the other tracks to 'catch up' with these two you rather would shift back the 2 affected ones so that they are in sync again. Naturally the problem with this solution are buses and the possibility of 'time chaos' when doing heavy editing. Given the many wonderful functions we have in PT I just can't comprehend why this couldt be dealt with by Digi..sorry IO mean AVID?

And let's not forget that hardware inserts are a major issue as well....not everybody working in LE is solely relying on plug-ins, believe it or not.

So no matter what's being said above ADC or rather the lack of it remains a huge PITA. Or maybe I do miss something here?

So saying that it is just a 30sec job is not true unless you use an 'idealistic' setup like the one in the video.
Old 14th December 2009
  #446
Lives for gear
 
noiseflaw's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by airusersblog View Post
because AVID are buying Fender.
Whoa! really well I never!


Quote:
Originally Posted by airusersblog View Post
this stuff is such a waste of time and belongs in the school yard, not in threads for sound-thinking musicians.
Welcome to the Internut.

Welcome to...

Gearslutz.


Old 14th December 2009
  #447
Lives for gear
 
indie's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by oceantracks View Post
Yes Radar failed if you consider the total number of users compared to Pro Tools.

TH
Oh no! I'm using a failed system that sounds better than anything I've heard except Prism. If they failed in marketing, they succeeded in sound and stability.
Anywho - back to PT next move...
Old 14th December 2009
  #448
Motown legend
 
Bob Olhsson's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by doorknocker View Post
...To be honest, this wasn't helpful at all because 99% of PT users will deal with tracks that have varying amounts of sample delay, obviously this gets more complicated once you introduce plug-ins on buses, etc...
Except that most of the better sounding recent plug-ins have no sample delay at all. You're talking about the '90s when the only decent sounding plug-in compresses and limiters had significant delays. 99% of today's PT users don't use that stuff any more.
Old 14th December 2009
  #449
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doorknocker's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson View Post
Except that most of the better sounding recent plug-ins have no sample delay at all. You're talking about the '90s when the only decent sounding plug-in compresses and limiters had significant delays. 99% of today's PT users don't use that stuff any more.
No, I'm pretty much up to date with plug-ins. A lot of them are zero latency but others are not. I'm using the plug-ins that are the most useful to me and those that sound the best, latency or not.

But my real issue was that the video offers a 'solution' which isn't really one. Otherwise Mellowmuse wouldn't exist.


And what about hardware inserts and buses?
Old 14th December 2009
  #450
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paultools's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson View Post
Except that most of the better sounding recent plug-ins have no sample delay at all. You're talking about the '90s when the only decent sounding plug-in compresses and limiters had significant delays. 99% of today's PT users don't use that stuff any more.
Are you guys ignoring the latency incurred in using busses?

It gets messy, especially at 4:00 AM after someone has been blowing blunts in your airspace for 10 hours...
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