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Digidesign Pro Tools Next Move Audio Interfaces
Old 2nd December 2009
  #391
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kerry p. View Post
But one of the most interesting things he brought up was them bringing in more of a networking system, where you can remotely connect systems, without latency, through an internet connection, :::be able to listen to a live take going on, say "i like that", render it, edit it, all while it is updating the audio file on the other end. He was getting real deep with the possiblities, likening it to isdn of the future....
I worked on that very thing back in the 90's. It's constantly being rediscovered as a concept...Dave Lebolt mentioned our work when he left Avid. (It eventually became digidelivery)

Turns out the speed of light matters on a global scale, and latency over the net bottoms out at a noticeable amount. Still, neat things have been done...Reaper has something called Ninjam which embraces the latency difference and lets you have these in-and-out-of-phase jam sessions over IP. There is also source-live and source-connect.

Old 2nd December 2009
  #392
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spicemix View Post
Turns out the speed of light matters on a global scale
like when those cable news guys are reporting from Iraq and they are nodding and nodding long after the anchor has finished asking his question.

I can't imagine anyone will have a satisfying remote jamming setup anytime soon.
Old 5th December 2009
  #393
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kerry p. View Post
l
But one of the most interesting things he brought up was them bringing in more of a networking system, where you can remotely connect systems, without latency, through an internet connection, :::be able to listen to a live take going on, say "i like that", render it, edit it, all while it is updating the audio file on the other end. He was getting real deep with the possiblities, likening it to isdn of the future....
This for shure would ba a killer app.
ableton live allready has a pretty good online collaboration system
- technology which digi allready owns.

Digidelivery is nice but too expensive and limited.

I´m thinking about realtime online studio collaboration for years
but have not found a system which would have convinced me yet.

Would be briliant if we could network different studios
instead of everyone fooling around inside his own limited little cell.

If you do this right digi
count me in for a new system !
Old 5th December 2009
  #394
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Sigma's Avatar
...hopefully fixing pt 8
Old 6th December 2009
  #395
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For me, just rtas freeze process, more compatibility (at least efficiency) with other plug-ins company and dsp card for whatever rtas plugin in each of their interface could be enough to go through the mid range market successfully…

And it's not a SF story…
Old 7th December 2009
  #396
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Hricco's Avatar
 

As a former HD guy, (I switched to LE with the Black Lion Mod after selling my studio space)

The things I miss the most are VCA tracks. and More Busses. I only have 32 busses right now, and it sux!! and I'm not paying 2K to get 128 Busses

"My point is that, the "pro" features like VCA channels, PDC, are software issues. Digi could totally unlock those features in LE, and most likely will. The thing that most LE users are complaining about is the sound quality. if you get an 003 rack, it ain't going to sound like a HD system, spend 1200 and get the BLA mod, and you have something very close.

so my solution would be to add a firewire jack to the 96 I/o....give us Pro Tools just Pro tools, not HD not LE just Pro tools Then you have a great sounding box, Pro Tools with PDC,ADC,128 Busses, and more voices.

Or something like that. But Please don't give me an RTAS box ala the Eleven Rack....I don't want to deal with it.
Old 7th December 2009
  #397
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hricco View Post
The thing that most LE users are complaining about is the sound quality.
oh come on, there's nothing wrong with the LE interfaces, most people wouldn't notice the difference between an 003 and a 96. in a poll of LE issues, i don't think this would make the top five.

if the results people are getting from pro tools LE aren't good, it isn't because of the interface.
Old 7th December 2009
  #398
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oceantracks's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hricco View Post
As a former HD guy, (I switched to LE with the Black Lion Mod after selling my studio space)

The things I miss the most are VCA tracks. and More Busses. I only have 32 busses right now, and it sux!! and I'm not paying 2K to get 128 Busses

"My point is that, the "pro" features like VCA channels, PDC, are software issues. Digi could totally unlock those features in LE, and most likely will. The thing that most LE users are complaining about is the sound quality. if you get an 003 rack, it ain't going to sound like a HD system, spend 1200 and get the BLA mod, and you have something very close.

so my solution would be to add a firewire jack to the 96 I/o....give us Pro Tools just Pro tools, not HD not LE just Pro tools Then you have a great sounding box, Pro Tools with PDC,ADC,128 Busses, and more voices.

Or something like that. But Please don't give me an RTAS box ala the Eleven Rack....I don't want to deal with it.
Of course it can sound as good as an HD system. Try LE with some Apogee's involved
The big problem with LE besides the software limitations of busses, etc, is latency. Again, if you try to record something with LE's Low Latency mode enabled, it disables all plugs on the channel. Deliciously bad for trying say, to record with ELEVEN or the like.

TH
Old 7th December 2009
  #399
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doorknocker's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by oceantracks View Post
Again, if you try to record something with LE's Low Latency mode enabled, it disables all plugs on the channel. Deliciously bad for trying say, to record with ELEVEN or the like.
Ever since PT 7 (I think it was) went down to Buffer Size '32' I stopped using Low Latency Mode. Obviously it has also the huge advantage that I can monitor through my 2192 when being in record mode. Recording with plug-ins engaged (when necessary) works great and so does having multiple heaphone mixes.

With Buffer Size '32' and maybe '64' it is acceptable to me and my clients, everything above that will be recognized by anybody who's tracking no matter what their skill level and experience is.

It works pretty well since I switched to a new Mac Pro. But naturally I still wish that there was ADC, even lower buffer sizes and first and foremost: MORE I/O on PT LE.

And please Digi skip that 'LE' tag as well.....let us brag with our vintage outboard or our mics, nobody cares what your DAW is as long as everything runs smoothly.
Old 7th December 2009
  #400
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oceantracks's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by doorknocker View Post
Ever since PT 7 (I think it was) went down to Buffer Size '32' I stopped using Low Latency Mode. Obviously it has also the huge advantage that I can monitor through my 2192 when being in record mode. Recording with plug-ins engaged (when necessary) works great and so does having multiple heaphone mixes.

With Buffer Size '32' and maybe '64' it is acceptable to me and my clients, everything above that will be recognized by anybody who's tracking no matter what their skill level and experience is.

It works pretty well since I switched to a new Mac Pro. But naturally I still wish that there was ADC, even lower buffer sizes and first and foremost: MORE I/O on PT LE.

And please Digi skip that 'LE' tag as well.....let us brag with our vintage outboard or our mics, nobody cares what your DAW is as long as everything runs smoothly.
I've never been able to use PT at anything approaching 32....256 is about the best I can get without errors, unless I am doing something with low track counts. And that's on a Mac Pro Dual 2.8g.

It's such a part of working with LE that I am used to programming drum parts at 256, playing guitar parts, etc. My mind has learned to compensate for it I guess. When I had HD I didn't have to think about it.

I think their next move will be to make sure LE users dont' have to think about it. I believe the Eleven Box was a giveaway to the "new direction."

TH
Old 7th December 2009
  #401
Quote:
Originally Posted by oceantracks View Post
I've never been able to use PT at anything approaching 32....256 is about the best I can get without errors, unless I am doing something with low track counts. And that's on a Mac Pro Dual 2.8g.

It's such a part of working with LE that I am used to programming drum parts at 256, playing guitar parts, etc. My mind has learned to compensate for it I guess. When I had HD I didn't have to think about it.

I think their next move will be to make sure LE users dont' have to think about it. I believe the Eleven Box was a giveaway to the "new direction."

TH
Something is set up wrong in your system - I rarely move higher than 128 on my mac pro even on mixes that run out of tracks.

My g4 could handle low buffers for prgramming/tracking as well, provided I kept plugin count low.
Old 7th December 2009
  #402
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oceantracks's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
Something is set up wrong in your system - I rarely move higher than 128 on my mac pro even on mixes that run out of tracks.

My g4 could handle low buffers for prgramming/tracking as well, provided I kept plugin count low.
Nothing wrong with the system.

RTAS has some major problems, and Digi knows this.

Unless you and I were using the same Virtual Instruments, plugs and track counts, there's really no way to compare the results. The board are full of people complaining about all this, which is why RTAS is being worked on.

TH
Old 7th December 2009
  #403
Quote:
Originally Posted by oceantracks View Post
Nothing wrong with the system.

RTAS has some major problems, and Digi knows this.

Unless you and I were using the same Virtual Instruments, plugs and track counts, there's really no way to compare the results. The board are full of people complaining about all this, which is why RTAS is being worked on.

TH
What plugs do you tend to use then? I've got a fair chunk of stuff...so what you're saying is you've either got one plugin that's buggy, a particular combination or something else?

I've used a lot of combos on a lot of different rigs, and never had issues, apart from sheer mass of processing required.
Old 7th December 2009
  #404
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oceantracks's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
What plugs do you tend to use then? I've got a fair chunk of stuff...so what you're saying is you've either got one plugin that's buggy, a particular combination or something else?

I've used a lot of combos on a lot of different rigs, and never had issues, apart from sheer mass of processing required.
I write music for a living so I'm always filled with all manner of VIs. Kontakt 4 running Ocean Way Drums, running LASS Strings, Vienna Instruments, Omnisphere, RMX, the works. In Logic I either freeze all that stuff or...lately...I've been using Vienna Ensemble Pro which is pretty wonderful for accessing more memory than the app normally could.

This in addition to usually about 4 guitar plug ins, SSL and URS EQs and comps, the usual suspects. Maybe I just need to try a lower buffer again...I really haven't given it a try in ages....I think I tried it when I first got this Mac...got a bunch of errors and just went back to a safety zone. I'll try today and report back....

Tom
Old 7th December 2009
  #405
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doorknocker's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by oceantracks View Post
I've never been able to use PT at anything approaching 32....256 is about the best I can get without errors, unless I am doing something with low track counts. And that's on a Mac Pro Dual 2.8g.
Strange. I never could work with 256, even when mixing it feels much to sluggish to me (mainly doing automation by hand).

Also, how do you track Softsynths? I wouldn't know how to track anything with say a M-Tron or Minimonsta with the delay lag that 256 has.

When I got my new 2.66 Quadcore I did a test and called up somethign like 30 instances of the Bomb Factory PSA-1 plug-in, it worked without flaw.
Old 7th December 2009
  #406
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oceantracks's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by doorknocker View Post
Strange. I never could work with 256, even when mixing it feels much to sluggish to me (mainly doing automation by hand).

Also, how do you track Softsynths? I wouldn't know how to track anything with say a M-Tron or Minimonsta with the delay lag that 256 has.

When I got my new 2.66 Quadcore I did a test and called up somethign like 30 instances of the Bomb Factory PSA-1 plug-in, it worked without flaw.
I always mix at 1024, that's the only way to get LE to match up, or attempt to match up with Logic. Mixing at a high buffer setting shouldn't really matter, just tracking.

I play the VI parts in on a keyboard. And I can do drums all day at 256 Just habit I guess. In Logic none of this is a problem of course, and I've been using Logic far more than PT lately. I'm waiting to see what they do....

TH
Old 7th December 2009
  #407
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doorknocker's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by oceantracks View Post
I Mixing at a high buffer setting shouldn't really matter, just tracking.
It is for me because the moves don't 'translate', I guess I'm old-fashioned because I rarely write automation and prefer to do fades by hand, etc
Old 7th December 2009
  #408
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Hricco's Avatar
 

Quote:
oh come on, there's nothing wrong with the LE interfaces, most people wouldn't notice the difference between an 003 and a 96. in a poll of LE issues, i don't think this would make the top five.

Maybe it's just me. But I am all to aware of what a real studio should sound like. the 002/003 don't come close....fact.

What I mean to say is yes the software is limited (PTLE) but the interfaces that work with that software are horrible. Noticeably horrible I may ad

Which new LE users will soon find out, then..the only way to get them to sound any better is to get a $1200 mod from BLA (cheapest way) or get 3000 dollar apogees.

So:
$1500 for the 003 Rack
$3000 for rosetta 800 if you would like 8 channels.

Thats 4500 bucks!!

so the point is that LE users will eventually reach the limitations of the LE system and they will buy apogee converters, and they will buy ADAT interfaces to get more channels.

So digi should just release a 96i/o FW and create a mid level market for themselves.

Old 7th December 2009
  #409
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hricco View Post
Maybe it's just me. But I am all to aware of what a real studio should sound like. the 002/003 don't come close....fact.

What I mean to say is yes the software is limited (PTLE) but the interfaces that work with that software are horrible. Noticeably horrible I may ad
As a 002r owner I would agree, but having also used the oo3 on numerous occasions I actually find it totally useable. Whenever I've run out of good pres/convertors I have yet to find the 003 get in the way of good results.
Old 8th December 2009
  #410
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Hricco's Avatar
 

Quote:
I have yet to find the 003 get in the way of good results.
I hear that allot about the 003.
Old 8th December 2009
  #411
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Vikesh R M Kerai's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by voidtunes View Post
Another good post Kenny

Sometimes I wonder_is technology really helping us, or are we simply slaves to it?

PS. I hate MP3's
Slaves... definitely slaves. I'm sure most people who (like myself) use a DAW, find out that the new versions are coming out just as they have got used to the version they already have!
Financial greed is at the route of this business, the music seems to matter less and less as time goes by. The need for this to change should be clear for everyone to see I hope. Before you make that upgrade to a new version of your DAW or indeed an OS, ask yourself if you really need it in order to do your job properly.

PS. I hate MP3's too.
Old 8th December 2009
  #412
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drewgrass View Post
i did not wade through the 14 pages of post so sorry if this has been stated. what about total intergration. like radar they make there own computer, made for protools fully expandable chipsets.a new improved network server for real time file sharing . you dont have to deal with mac os upgrades you do a total upgrade every quarter or month or whatever. plug-in developers are in the loop. and the system is made for the sole purpose of recording music. it could be the death knell also. but apple is not going to do avid any favors in the future with there push for logic. and im sure it cost them alot to keep up with apple development and they dont get alot of help. i may be wrong. but if i could buy a stable version of something like a roland vs-2480 that could run pro tools tomorrow i would do it in a heartbeat.
sounds good but if it can't open older PT sessions in full- including all plugins, etc. from both mac and pc it won't get off the ground.
Old 8th December 2009
  #413
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relaxo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by drewgrass View Post
i did not wade through the 14 pages of post so sorry if this has been stated. what about total intergration. like radar they make there own computer, made for protools fully expandable chipsets.a new improved network server for real time file sharing . you dont have to deal with mac os upgrades you do a total upgrade every quarter or month or whatever. plug-in developers are in the loop. and the system is made for the sole purpose of recording music. it could be the death knell also. but apple is not going to do avid any favors in the future with there push for logic. and im sure it cost them alot to keep up with apple development and they dont get alot of help. i may be wrong. but if i could buy a stable version of something like a roland vs-2480 that could run pro tools tomorrow i would do it in a heartbeat.
Sounds like a man-made disaster of epic proportions. A DAW is not an exclusively PT workstation. Radar failed for good reason. When you buy into a total DAW system like the PT system, it is expected and assumed that that DAW system will be your complete system. I NEED run iTunes, Quicktime Toast, Logic, Midi Monitor, BPM Calc, tuners, batch converting softwares, etc etc etc. Ouch, could you imagine, being STUCK in a exclusively Digidesign system? I would need two powerful computers, my Mac and my highly limited PT machine, running in parallel with mouse and screen switching because there is no way in hell I would exclusively use a closed system.
Old 8th December 2009
  #414
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hotstuff View Post
For us LE users what we really need and want is ADC.

This alone should be the biggest priority for Digidesign on the next release, I think that this alone will determine whether the loyal users will stay or move on.

What I dont understand is the attitude towards Digidesign, its as if the system all of a sudden doesn´t work anymore or is broken, I see programs with a lot of new features but at the same time i hear more and more bad mixes and bad music, the programs have more and more features but it seems that people boast more about there equipment than their ability's to make good mixes or produce great songs.

Aside from the workaround caused by the lack of ADC Protools LE gives you the tools to produce great music as it is.

Hotstuff
thumbsupthumbsupthumbsup +1
Old 8th December 2009
  #415
Quote:
Originally Posted by relaxo View Post
Sounds like a man-made disaster of epic proportions. A DAW is not an exclusively PT workstation. Radar failed for good reason. When you buy into a total DAW system like the PT system, it is expected and assumed that that DAW system will be your complete system. I NEED run iTunes, Quicktime Toast, Logic, Midi Monitor, BPM Calc, tuners, batch converting softwares, etc etc etc. Ouch, could you imagine, being STUCK in a exclusively Digidesign system? I would need two powerful computers, my Mac and my impaired PT machine, running in parallel with mouse and screen switching because there is no way in hell I would exclusively use a closed system.
Radar failed?! Really?!

I don't disagree with the rest, although that's kind of what a mac is - a limited hardware bespoke os pc.
Old 8th December 2009
  #416
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relaxo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
Radar failed?! Really?!
Where is it? Who uses it? Why isn't it ever mentioned in these threads? I know a lot of NYC studio owners and the last time I heard that someone was using it was ten years ago. I think it failed to take hold because it's so limiting...like an Avid OS box would be...a dead end street...a one trick pony...and other cliches too. Not failed, but failed to take hold of widespread use.


Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
although that's kind of what a mac is - a limited hardware bespoke os pc.
Been on Mac 15 years...I've never been limited or hindered in any way and my jobs have always been Mac-centric.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hotstuff View Post
For us LE users what we really need and want is ADC.
I couldn't care less about ADC...I need my LE machines to be able to deal with VIs like Logic does, through efficiency, but most importantly with freezing.

Most LE users want ADC though...here's a site where you can have a say...Avid reads it.

Digidesign Pro Tools - by IdeaScale

Here's another:

Digidesign Feature Request Submission Form
Old 8th December 2009
  #417
Quote:
Originally Posted by relaxo View Post
Where is it? Who uses it? Why isn't it ever mentioned in these threads? I know a lot of NYC studio owners and the last time I heard that someone was using it was ten years ago. I think it failed to take hold because it's so limiting...like an Avid OS box would be...a dead end street...a one trick pony...and other cliches too. Not failed, but failed to take hold of widespread use.




Been on Mac 15 years...I've never been limited or hindered in any way and my jobs have always been Mac-centric.




I couldn't care less about ADC...I need my LE machines to be able to deal with VIs like Logic does, through efficiency, but most importantly with freezing.

Most LE users want ADC though...here's a site where you can have a say...Avid reads it.

Digidesign Pro Tools - by IdeaScale

Here's another:

Digidesign Feature Request Submission Form
Err...radar gets raved about all the time! I wouldn't want to guess at stats, but I bet there's a good few pros still using it as a primary recording device. Plus they were around a long time - a Sony dash is now an expensive doorstop, but you couldn't really call them a failure either - anything that was the industry standard can't have been. Radar may not have been THE industry standard, but it was AN industry standard.

As for the comment re macs - you completely and utterly missed the point. I was arguing that it was a GOOD thing - although macs and pcs are essentially the same thing running different os, the limited range of mac hardware means it's more stable for specialist media use straight out of the box. Windows pcs can be configured and tweaked to match this of course, but it requires a lot more thought. So what I'm saying is provided you don't go adding lots of weird USB devices or random pieces of consumer level background software, you can keep your mac(or stripped down pc) a lean media machine, and a closed system isn't needed.
Old 9th December 2009
  #418
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Someone under NDA with Avid just released new videos on getting around LE's lack of Delay Compensation. That was all I needed to see to give up hope on Pro Tools.

Logic is actually pretty cool. Some misses, but quite a lot of hits.

Oh and Digi has said they aren't doing a RADAR-like all-in-one. I predict they are going to continue requiring HD hardware for >18i/o and they will charge >$2500 for any system that might reasonably be described as "uncrippled."
Old 9th December 2009
  #419
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spicemix View Post
Someone under NDA with Avid just released new videos on getting around LE's lack of Delay Compensation. That was all I needed to see to give up hope on Pro Tools.
Are you speaking of Air User's blog ? if not could you give us a link ?

Thanks
Old 9th December 2009
  #420
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tamasdragon's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by spicemix View Post
Someone under NDA with Avid just released new videos on getting around LE's lack of Delay Compensation. That was all I needed to see to give up hope on Pro Tools.
"
Oh come on. This is absurd.
Russ makes great videos. I do pt tutorial videos in hungarian. I will cover manual delay compensation too. It is good to know, even if you have adc.
Russ did this for request. It has nothing to do with pt's future.
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