The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
UnNatural Perfection (and the end of rock)
Old 16th November 2009
  #151
Lives for gear
 
memphisindie's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Outlaw Hans View Post
The obsession with pitch and grid is just people parroting each other.
The same goes for the loudness war. Ridiculous. It's not loud at all. It doesn't sound loud to me. To me "loud" is having the snare really hit you in the face on the 3rd. With todays mastering nothing' s loud because nothing's soft. Might as well be "the softness war". There's no reference as to what's loud or otherwise.
Ever noticed how the "rock" songs of today have chorusses that sound softer than verses? Softer parts have at least some room to breath, the louder parts are fully squashed, so they are percieved as soft. It's a ridiculous way of listening to music.
Ever notice how lead vocal lines of today sound like background vocal lines of yesterday?
Because of this there is no countermelody or counterpointing rhythm in the background vocals of today which are just a bunch of unison harmonies that could be done (and are) by a harmonizer.
Could you get any cheaper than that?
Nothing but unison harmonies, really, and they call themselves "producers".
Couldn't be bothered to write a decent vocal lead line, settled for a bvox line and unison harmony.
WEAK.
Add to that the over-tweaking of it and the over-compressing and limiting and you have:
ABSOLUTE SHITE!
Old 16th November 2009
  #152
Motown legend
 
Bob Olhsson's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by steelyfan View Post
...But there are plenty of people who are and have been doing just that from the beginning, they just don't have ........um I wouldn't know, the right manager or the right labels support?..... or ...
Enough brains!

I'm not aware of anybody who ever "made it" by doing the same thing somebody else did. Their music might not be the most original but how they managed to capture the world's attention is almost always brilliantly creative and unique. It also had little to do with anything a label did other than to supply funding.
Old 16th November 2009
  #153
Lives for gear
 
steelyfan's Avatar
 

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Outlaw Hans View Post
. It's a ridiculous way of listening to music.
Ain't that the truth.

Can you imagine someone accusing Neil Young's "On the Beach" sounding like a demo because of it's natural nature. Modern mixes sound ridiculous.
I could never be a pro in this industry, too many deaf members.

Someone hears a nice recording of an acoustic guitar and a vocal, and are like "It's nice sounding, like a good demo" . What they mean is that it doesn't sound like today's radio and they wouldn't know a fine recording if they heard one, because their ears are "tuned" to something entirely different, and that different isn't fidelity entailed. Then.......... people actually make/mix music for THOSE sets of ears.......................
Old 16th November 2009
  #154
Lives for gear
 
steelyfan's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson View Post
Enough brains!

I'm not aware of anybody who ever "made it" by doing the same thing somebody else did. Their music might not be the most original but how they managed to capture the world's attention is almost always brilliantly creative and unique. It also had little to do with anything a label did other than to supply funding.

It CAN be done, but it seems with a dedicated person to take care of the business/marketing side of things, that would let artist be artist and managers/promoters do their job. Not all or even most great artist are lazy or unintelligent because they aren't a one man do it all marketing/production team. They need to be them to create, and that could include/exclude certain personality traits. I don't think Jim Morrison
wanted or needed that type of "reality check" (LOL) responsibility, he would have been a different writer/person.

To say that Tiffany's career had little to do with the labels amount of interest and promotional efforts/marketing strategy is confusing.
Old 16th November 2009
  #155
Lives for gear
 
memphisindie's Avatar
 

"Too many deaf members", "Tiffany", dammit, you're on a roll!!



I also agree with that.
Old 16th November 2009
  #156
Motown legend
 
Bob Olhsson's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by steelyfan View Post
... Not all or even most great artist are lazy or unintelligent because they aren't a one man do it all marketing/production team. ..
No but the ones I've known came up with many of the ideas that others on their team executed. I just heard another great story at the Welcome to 1979 Producer/Engineer Summit this past weekend about an artist who just pulled it off well enough a couple weeks ago to arouse a full on major label bidding war.

You need to figure out how to make a big splash (or blunder into it) and then have the goods to back up people's expectations.
Old 16th November 2009
  #157
You guys are fooling yourselves. ALL the evidence supports my position. The most people music is the most downloaded music. You almost never see kids on Youtube using (or commenting on) older music. The most popular (and downloaded) music is stuff you think is horrible.

I mean, how badly do you need to believe that kids are being brainwashed so that you don't have to accept that they like the music of their generation?

That doesn't mean that they wouldn't like any of it. It's not an either/or situation. Even if they did like some older music, that wouldn't mean that they don't like Lady Gaga. They CLEARLY love Lady Gaga.

I'm always just so suprised when people are unable to hear themselves becoming their parents. I mean why aren't you guys all completely into Coltrane or Monk? That's clearly more advanced, less compressed, less gridded music than Zepplin, Hendrix, etc... And I'm sure that plenty of people at that time figured that you only prefered that stuff because it was being shoved down your throat, but you know that's not the case.

Yeh, you may like some Contrane or Monk, but it's not maybe what moves you the most. What moves you is the music of your generation because it's yours and not your parent's or older sibling's music, and it provides you a common experience.

This stuff just isn't that complicated. As I've pointed out, it's not anything to do with this generation. It happened in the disco era. It happened in the limp synth era. The people who liked that music really liked it. They weren't being fed drugs by the music industry.
Old 16th November 2009
  #158
Lives for gear
 
crufty's Avatar
I'm with narcoman. There is some heavy stuff out there. I'm not wily enough to know if its overproduced or simply 'nailed it', but a trip down to the local cd shop recently has been rewarding. It may be one man's art is another man's trash.

In America, the society of the masses is fraying a bit. I would expect the artistic cravings of its teens to change accordingly. From a wider perspective, the fact that the masses of teens seek fake over produced crap may be a positive sign, that their lives are in a place where they don't need to find a darker thread in their music. For me, I can't imagine an unreal world of beamers for all, iphones and hd tv; growing up we didn't lack for anything but there was plenty we didn't have (in retrospect). As money continues to tighten, will we see a trend of looser, more raw music?
Old 16th November 2009
  #159
Lives for gear
 
memphisindie's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean Roddey View Post
You guys are fooling yourselves.
WHAT?
Quote:
ALL the evidence supports my position.
Spitting more chocolate milk out my nose.
Quote:
The most people music is the most downloaded music. You almost never see kids on Youtube using (or commenting on) older music. The most popular (and downloaded) music is stuff you think is horrible.

I mean, how badly do you need to believe that kids are being brainwashed so that you don't have to accept that they like the music of their generation?
Clearly that is not so.
Quote:
That doesn't mean that they wouldn't like any of it. It's not an either/or situation. Even if they did like some older music, that wouldn't mean that they don't like Lady Gaga. They CLEARLY love Lady Gaga.
My kids HATE Lady GaGa, just for the sound of it. All I have to do is look at the playlists on my kids Ipods, I have 3 kids with lots of friends, I think they were born with an Ipod in their hands.
Quote:
I'm always just so suprised when people are unable to hear themselves becoming their parents. I mean why aren't you guys all completely into Coltrane or Monk? That's clearly more advanced, less compressed, less gridded music than Zepplin, Hendrix, etc... And I'm sure that plenty of people at that time figured that you only prefered that stuff because it was being shoved down your throat, but you know that's not the case.
Oh trust me, I can hear my parents. I was into all that stuff at the same time. None is more gridded than the other.
Quote:

Yeh, you may like some Coltrane or Monk, but it's not maybe what moves you the most. What moves you is the music of your generation because it's yours and not your parent's or older sibling's music, and it provides you a common experience.

This stuff just isn't that complicated. As I've pointed out, it's not anything to do with this generation. It happened in the disco era. It happened in the limp synth era. The people who liked that music really liked it. They weren't being fed drugs by the music industry.
Yeah and none of it was all encompassing. Today things have taken a decidedly bad turn for the worse broadscale. Here's a thought for you, just because this is the music of their generation doesn't mean they like it anywhere near as much as I liked Zep or, anyone liked anything from our generation, it also doesn't mean that things HAVEN'T taken a turn for the worse. Nothing in one sentence "means" anything cross-context. Even your position is NOT mutually exclusive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by crufty View Post
I'm with narcoman. There is some heavy stuff out there. I'm not wily enough to know if its overproduced or simply 'nailed it', but a trip down to the local cd shop recently has been rewarding. It may be one man's art is another man's trash.

In America, the society of the masses is fraying a bit. I would expect the artistic cravings of its teens to change accordingly. From a wider perspective, the fact that the masses of teens seek fake over produced crap may be a positive sign, that their lives are in a place where they don't need to find a darker thread in their music. For me, I can't imagine an unreal world of beamers for all, iphones and hd tv; growing up we didn't lack for anything but there was plenty we didn't have (in retrospect). As money continues to tighten, will we see a trend of looser, more raw music?
I must admit, my kids are much happier than I was at their age and for darn good reason, but, all that may change, may not, but I think this is a simple case of wrongheaded supply side gob stuffing.
Old 16th November 2009
  #160
Lives for gear
 
steelyfan's Avatar
 

Well, my parents didn't and don't listen to music, I'd love to know what they would like though. My dad likes the music to the X-box360 game Oblivion......enchanting shit (lol).... I like it too though, mysteriously friendly.

Honestly, I'm not so concerned with WHAT kids are listening to, I really don't even follow radio music. I grew up being a rap and heavy metal nut, it wasn't till I was @ 16 or 17 I got into jazz and 70's rock, and I was an 80's kid, my heart is still WAAYY into the The Smiths and The Cocteau Twins and shockingly alot of keyboard goth music (hymm..... did I just say that?) . And oviously style masters Steelydan.

It's how this modern music is recorded/ produced that is unacceptable, it really does sound like ass. It has nothing to do with beatmachines (I love electronic music and am not some purist for "real " instrumnets) or the concepts or the look or any of that stuff, it's the fidelity crimes I just can't overlook. The 80's might have had cheesy keyboard sounds, but the way RESPECTABLE producers/engineers mix and record guitars today make
Spandua Ballet sound like a bunch of hellraising bullies. I mean come on!

I think of a band like Portishead, and those guys make modern music but understand sound, sonics. Listening to a 2009 rock mix on the radio makes Donna Summers disco music sound grity and edgy compared to those...those........ those............are those guitars!? ??

This thread is about computers and how our ears have adjusted to inferior sound because of technology and the ability to perfect things really simply because we're only human. Next thing you know, someone will accuse folks of being old fashioned because they want to make love to their wife instead of having robbie the robot with his attachable features and perfectly gridded gyration motions do it for them. LOL!! L A M E.......

"I'm a little tired tonight honey, .......ROBBIE ON..... .. preset #4 , attachment #8 .......lower latency...... snap to grid........proceede sir."


That's what modern mixes sound like. .....lol..
Old 16th November 2009
  #161
Lives for gear
 
crufty's Avatar
Old 16th November 2009
  #162
Lives for gear
 
memphisindie's Avatar
 

Steelyfan, that is the funniest shit I've read on here yet.
Old 16th November 2009
  #163
Lives for gear
 
steelyfan's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by memphisindie View Post
Steelyfan, that is the funniest shit I've read on here yet.

LOL!

Yea, I'm having some fun today. Work is slow and I'm feeling anxious to get home and make an ice-coffee and record some music. I also enjoyed your entrys. Nice weather over here in Louisiana, feeling a bit frisky.
Old 16th November 2009
  #164
Lives for gear
 
memphisindie's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by steelyfan View Post
LOL!

Yea, I'm having some fun today. Work is slow and I'm feeling anxious to get home and make an ice-coffee and record some music. I also enjoyed your entrys. Nice weather over here in Louisiana, feeling a bit frisky.
We got rain in Memphis, and my computer is dead, I need to hook up 2 more mics and record some drums. I've been modding a lot of gear lately.
Old 16th November 2009
  #165
I had a really good night in the studio last night. It was one of those things where you just randomly do something without any idea why you are doing it, but for some reason it just works out way better than anything you could have rationally come up with. I guess it's channeling producers of the past or something.

We've had a couple of days so far where it's been cool enough to keep the windows closed, and I'm already having cabin fever.
Old 16th November 2009
  #166
Gear Guru
 
Kenny Gioia's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson View Post
Enough brains!

I'm not aware of anybody who ever "made it" by doing the same thing somebody else did. Their music might not be the most original but how they managed to capture the world's attention is almost always brilliantly creative and unique. It also had little to do with anything a label did other than to supply funding.
I agree. Most producers are just giving the label what they want.

It's hard to step away and just make great music. But almost all the great scenes came from just that. Not trying to please the labels which is what most bands are doing nowadays.
Old 17th November 2009
  #167
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by crufty View Post
Old 17th November 2009
  #168
Lives for gear
 
memphisindie's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia View Post
I agree. Most producers are just giving the label what they want.

It's hard to step away and just make great music. But almost all the great scenes came from just that. Not trying to please the labels which is what most bands are doing nowadays.
Tell me about it! I stepped away but where's the great music I was supposed to produce?
Old 17th November 2009
  #169
Motown legend
 
Bob Olhsson's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia View Post
...It's hard to step away and just make great music. But almost all the great scenes came from just that. Not trying to please the labels which is what most bands are doing nowadays.
They all began in living rooms and lofts too.

One big difference today is that the best musicians and singers used to be able to earn a comfortable living from doing jingles which allowed them to devote most of their time to music as entertainment. MIDI snuffed that income out.
Old 17th November 2009
  #170
Moderator
 
narcoman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by crufty View Post
Wolfmother:

In the words of Mike Patton upon hearing it in the background whilst being interviewed at a festival.... "what the fu.ck is THAT?"


I know my answer.....
Old 17th November 2009
  #171
In a way, it's kind of just T-Rex Redux.
Old 17th November 2009
  #172
Lives for gear
 
crufty's Avatar
haha sha-na-na--great on many levels.

point is w/wm is there is good sound out there. I take a look at the current #1 and the audio falls exactly in line with what is being discussed. auto-tuned, compressed, completely quantized. It might even be completely computerized.
Old 17th November 2009
  #173
Quote:
Originally Posted by memphisindie View Post
WHAT?
Spitting more chocolate milk out my nose.
Clearly that is not so.
My kids HATE Lady GaGa, just for the sound of it. All I have to do is look at the playlists on my kids Ipods, I have 3 kids with lots of friends, I think they were born with an Ipod in their hands.
Oh trust me, I can hear my parents. I was into all that stuff at the same time. None is more gridded than the other.

Yeah and none of it was all encompassing. Today things have taken a decidedly bad turn for the worse broadscale. Here's a thought for you, just because this is the music of their generation doesn't mean they like it anywhere near as much as I liked Zep or, anyone liked anything from our generation, it also doesn't mean that things HAVEN'T taken a turn for the worse. Nothing in one sentence "means" anything cross-context. Even your position is NOT mutually exclusive.

I must admit, my kids are much happier than I was at their age and for darn good reason, but, all that may change, may not, but I think this is a simple case of wrongheaded supply side gob stuffing.

Necessary Evil, i suppose...
I have said it before this really is the greatest challenge of all of us in this century to move beyond the either/or mindset into the 'maybe'. Since reality is subjective, the more we define and become 'sure' about one thing or another the less open we are to the realm of possibility. In my realm of possibility all things work for the good. I can tolerate some shit here and there. I can swim in the cesspool and recognize the real from the fake.
It may even be in my interest, as an artist, to take a piss if the ends justify the means.
Perhaps music became inhuman since the wax cylinder- perhaps we have all been morphed and evolved beyond all recognition and it is really our humanity that we are struggling to preserve amidst the pervasive delusion that technology=progress. Well, old man, IS the grass greener on the other side?
Yes everything is going to hell and we live in a rubbish world of shallow consumerism and the music industry is ****ed and modern pop music sucks
and nothing is sacred. But, if you are an artist, you must also have some humanity and by that line of reasoning you wish to see humans as a species become wiser, stronger and more robust. Therefore, you know that our whole way of life- chemical additives, flouridated water, medications, internet, addictions etc. exist in the same way to weed out the humans from the animals. If there is a big machine tweaking everything and digitizing and dehumanizing art, then it should be that we dwell in the house of the beast, that we **** with the 'system' from the inside- not drop out and complain that the world has left us behind.
So if all the 'crap' only serves to further amplify and strengthen the gold, then let there be more! No complaints here.
My line of reasoning is this- let the animals feed, let them get fat and happy. Myself, i am nourished by other things...when i see a new artist make it 'big' i think to myself- "that is the end- everything from then on out for them is trying to replicate doing what got them there..."
People in my position are more than happy that things are in the state they are in. We now know more than ever the more the same formulas are cooked up and re-sold as 'new', the greater the demand for alternative arises. Eventually.
Old 17th November 2009
  #174
Google's 'search suggestions', as I understand it, are based on how often something is searched for. If you go to google and type in 'la' that gets you to Lady Gaga at the top of the list, which would mean that she is obviously ginormously searched for to be the first thing that comes up with just those two letters.
Old 17th November 2009
  #175
I think equally amazing: "latin translation" is all the way up at number #10!

I mean... latin translation? How often does anyone really need to...(shakes head, kind of like his parents did) ... crazy world out there!
Old 17th November 2009
  #176
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean Roddey View Post
Google's 'search suggestions', as I understand it, are based on how often something is searched for. If you go to google and type in 'la' that gets you to Lady Gaga at the top of the list, which would mean that she is obviously ginormously searched for to be the first thing that comes up with just those two letters.
I hate to break it to you, but I think if you type in 'la', you get Lady Gaga...

I got all kinds of stuff related to Los Angeles...LA Times, LA Lakers, and so on...first bit of music I got was Coldplay's Viva La Vida 11 pages in...
Old 17th November 2009
  #177
Gear Addict
 
jono_3's Avatar
Has anyone noticed how Jack White has Dave Grohl syndrome, in where everything he works on turns to gold?

I would have to say the last few records Jack White did were far from perfect, but managed to sell a lot of copies, garner good reviews and create fans. Maybe bands just simply aren't as good as they used to be....
Old 17th November 2009
  #178
Quote:
Originally Posted by JP11 View Post
I hate to break it to you, but I think if you type in 'la', you get Lady Gaga...

I got all kinds of stuff related to Los Angeles...LA Times, LA Lakers, and so on...first bit of music I got was Coldplay's Viva La Vida 11 pages in...
Actually, it might be the other way around. I had just cleaned out my cookies and browser history about an hour before. So it would have had no previous search information to tailor my search results. If you haven't, yours might be the search that's being personalized.

I think it may sometimes use geographical location as well, so if you are actually in LA, it might be tailoring your results for your location, and not basing yours on hits.

Anyway, we don't even have to argue about that. Google hits reported:

Elton John: 94M
Little Richard: 69.8M
Brittany Spears: 67.3M
Lady Gaga: 53.5M
The Doors: 47M
Miley Cyrus: 42.9M
Jonas Broths: 34.7M
Coldplay: 28.5M
Led Zepplin: 16M
Jimi Hendrix: 11M
Nora Jones: 7M
Thelonius Monk: 1.63M

Elton John actually kicked butt at 94M. But of course he had a vast number of hits over a long period of time, and the whole Diana thing decades later. So probably not suprising I guess. But Little Richard, a vertible institution, is only somewhat more referenced than Brittany and Lady Gaga. And The Doors only a bit more than Miley.

But anyhoo... if you gauge the number of other people referencing these acts by name on the web, they are very much in the public eye. Yes, some of those may be people saying they don't like them, but the same would likely apply to all of them, unless you are going to claim that all of Led Zepplin's hits are positive and none of Miley's are, which isn't remotely likely.

One way or another, those folks are very widely known in the culture and people wouldn't be talking about them that much if they weren't important to people of their generation.
Old 17th November 2009
  #179
Moderator
 
narcoman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by crufty View Post
haha sha-na-na--great on many levels.

point is w/wm is there is good sound out there. I take a look at the current #1 and the audio falls exactly in line with what is being discussed. auto-tuned, compressed, completely quantized. It might even be completely computerized.
indeed so - but my argument has always been that the biggest selling acts aint the ones in the charts - they just sell at a lower rate for a longer time. Check out the stats on the biggest records in any year and the figures rarely reflect what you saw in the charts!! Thankfully.


Mind you - i'm not against hyper computerised music - thats all good for those who like it......
Old 17th November 2009
  #180
Lives for gear
 
Outlaw Hans's Avatar
 

I appreciate som newer music. Hell, I can't get myself to not liking " Poker face". So there you go. There's a room for that sound. It's a totally different thing. However, what bothers me is the decline in songwriting skills and production in the rock / band-pop music. Having said that, the Brits have come up with some interesting acts lately. They've even made it into the mainstream.
πŸ“ Reply
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
πŸ–¨οΈ Show Printable Version
βœ‰οΈ Email this Page
πŸ” Search thread
♾️ Similar Threads
πŸŽ™οΈ View mentioned gear